Buying a new gaming PC - suggestions please?

[Giorgo]

KarlBob wrote:

I'd like to call for a truce on the Windows 7/8/10 debate. People have strong opinions on the subject, but the bottom line is that PFO will run in either Windows 7 or Windows 8.1.

Here let me help: Windows 7 is cheaper, better, more stable, more user friendly and designed for desktops + mouse + keyboard + monitor and is ready to go after install and updates, no need to fool around with configurations. :)

[<Tavernhold> Locke]

There was an earlier thread about what to get. i followed that and got some good advice. I especially remember Mbando. I considered going the piece parts method, but have not really done that sort of thing this century.

I went to TigerDirect and NewEgg and others, shopping the prices. For $880.49 plus shipping I got:

Asus M51AD Desktop PC - Intel Core i5-4440 3.10GHz, 8GB Memory, 1TB HDD, DVDRW, 3GB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760, Windows 8 64-bit - M51AD-US002S (AS0-102298803)

I can easily add ram, but this seems good enough. I was aiming for NVIDIA 750 as good enough, But the 760 was available for similar price.

This system is will support over clocking, but I am not using that. I do not want that to drive my use and then need to turn it off ini summer. It can get to 43 C and higher, but it is dry heat.

It doesn't say it but I think it has an SSD. I [lug it in, turn it on and have log in prompt in 20 seconds or less. I also bought a monitor but have been using the family TV through HDMI unter face. It will run two instances of pathfinder. I have the blue suits problem and so I am running reduced graphics, but I seldom see glitches in the image flow (I am not sure I still see the hesitation at hex boundaries.

I rum little else on the machine. Team Speak, can not get mumble to load properly (opus.dll), several IE windows related to the game Cheatle, Nihimon, GW forum, Paizo PfO, and my settlement (Tavernhold).

If there is another Bonnie night, I may try to get Twitch up.

[Saiph]

Here is the e-mail I got back from my local computer store:

Here is what I came up with. It is almost the identical system, but we used a better video card as the R7 cards have a LOT less problems with the drivers than the nvidia cards. We see a lot of problems with driver issues with the nvidia cards. Also, we included a Blu-Ray rewritable drive in this system as well. We can have this built in 3 days and ALL our systems include an all inclusive 2 year warranty and includes setup and configuration of the operating system and all software including an antivirus program.

ASUS Z97-AR LGA 1150 Intel ATX Motherboard
Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz LGA 1150 Boxed Processor
Corsair Hydro Series H60 High Performance Liquid Cooling
NZXT Classic Series Source 210 Mid Tower ATX Computer Case
Microsoft Windows 8.1 64-bit English
750W 20 4-pin ATX Power Supply (Black)
2TB 7200 RPM SATA 6Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB DDR3-1600 PC3-12800) Memory
LG 16x Internal SATA Blu-Ray Rewritable Drive
Radeon R7 240X Overclocked 2GB DDR3 PCIEx1

Price is $1164.28.

What do you guys think? I'm going to go back and ask for nvidia video card.. I'm not a fan of ATI. Good price though right?! Anything missing or that I need to add?

[Audoucet]

I'm not a fan of computer stores myself, but it's a choice.

Two things to consider :

First, remember you have no warranty, if you open the tower, or if you modify it (even Windows, if I'm not mistaken). I lost my warranty the first day, because I had to go back to 7.

Secondly, be assured that your tower is big enough, for future improvement. Maybe that you will want to add a hard drive or something like that.

[Saiph]

Audoucet wrote:

I'm not a fan of computer stores myself, but it's a choice.

Two things to consider :

First, remember you have no warranty, if you open the tower, or if you modify it (even Windows, if I'm not mistaken). I lost my warranty the first day, because I had to go back to 7.

Secondly, be assured that your tower is big enough, for future improvement. Maybe that you will want to add a hard drive or something like that.

Sorry forgot to list, it comes with a 2 year warranty, windows 8.1 and anti virus.

This is a family owned computer store...

[Audoucet]

Yep, you did say you had a warranty, but it's gone if you modify the computer.

But if the store is owned by your family, I guess it's not a big deal, worst case scenario you can ask them to do the modifications. ^^

[Nihimon]

Saiph wrote:

What do you guys think? I'm going to go back and ask for nvidia video card.. I'm not a fan of ATI. Good price though right?! Anything missing or that I need to add?

It sounds like a pretty good system. The only thing that I would recommend is upgrading to 16GB RAM.

I also feel compelled to say that my preference for Nvidia is largely historical/intuitive/emotional. If you find tech professionals recommending something else specifically to avoid problems, it's worth reevaluating your preferences.

[Saiph]

Nihimon wrote:

Saiph wrote:

What do you guys think? I'm going to go back and ask for nvidia video card.. I'm not a fan of ATI. Good price though right?! Anything missing or that I need to add?

It sounds like a pretty good system. The only thing that I would recommend is upgrading to 16GB RAM.

I also feel compelled to say that my preference for Nvidia is largely historical/intuitive/emotional. If you find tech professionals recommending something else specifically to avoid problems, it's worth reevaluating your preferences.

Would you go with that card? I had a bad experience with ATI back in the day and that's my only reasoning when it comes to a preference for Nvidia.

[Being]

You will eventually want to use a solid state drive. Therefore I recommend you set your system to AHCI or require your shop to do so for you before installing your operating system. There is a decent video about SSD published on YouTube by Newegg.

[Caldeathe Baequiannia]

I think that modern nVidia vs ATI is mostly a matter of emotional preference. If the person building your system Wants to use a particular card (that is not your own first choice), ask them if they will assist you if you're having trouble.

Regardless of how they answer, (and despite my own preference for nVidia) I'd go with what they suggest since the fewer things you do that deviate from their plan, the fewer things they have to blame if there are problems later. There's nothing more frustrating than having a bad piece of equipment blamed on you for making "the wrong" choice.

[Caldeathe Baequiannia]

Being wrote:

You will eventually want to use a solid state drive. Therefore I recommend you set your system to AHCI or require your shop to do so for you before installing your operating system.

Being is right. And I'd ask right now about how much extra to have it boot from an SSD. You'll be glad you did.

[Audoucet]

Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:

Being is right. And I'd ask right now about how much extra to have it boot from an SSD. You'll be glad you did.

I would be careful about that, though. Most of my games are using C: for default installation, I must change each time. But even though, My Documents is in C:, because that is where is window, which means that my SSD is flooded by games settings, DLCs, mods... I'm sure there is an obvious solution, but I didn't find it.

[Being]

Audoucet wrote:

Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:

Being is right. And I'd ask right now about how much extra to have it boot from an SSD. You'll be glad you did.

I would be careful about that, though. Most of my games are using C: for default installation, I must change each time. But even though, My Documents is in C:, because that is where is window, which means that my SSD is flooded by games settings, DLCs, mods... I'm sure there is an obvious solution, but I didn't find it.

Win7 permits setting your default folders to your mass storage HDD, or you could recreate the documents folder onto your SSD C:\ and make it point to the documents folder on your mass storage drive.

[Saiph]

Being wrote:

Audoucet wrote:

Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:

Being is right. And I'd ask right now about how much extra to have it boot from an SSD. You'll be glad you did.

I would be careful about that, though. Most of my games are using C: for default installation, I must change each time. But even though, My Documents is in C:, because that is where is window, which means that my SSD is flooded by games settings, DLCs, mods... I'm sure there is an obvious solution, but I didn't find it.

Win7 permits setting your default folders to your mass storage HDD, or you could recreate the documents folder onto your SSD C:\ and make it point to the documents folder on your mass storage drive.

Okay, for a tech moron like myself (I'm a literature major people!) what would be the most user friendly thing to do here?

[Being]

This video describes and shows how to set things up if your vendor won't.

[Caldeathe Baequiannia]

I have the distinct advantage that PFO is the only game I'm interested in, so having its settings on my SSD isn't a burden.

[LazarX]

<Kabal> Daeglin wrote:

Could get a Mac :D

Then he'd have to master running Parralels or Boot Camp as the Mac client doesn't exist yet.

[Foscadh]

Audoucet wrote:

Yep, you did say you had a warranty, but it's gone if you modify the computer....

That very much depends on the store where you bought it. The store I deal with has no such provisions.

Nihimon wrote:

... I also feel compelled to say that my preference for Nvidia is largely historical/intuitive/emotional. If you find tech professionals recommending something else specifically to avoid problems, it's worth reevaluating your preferences.

I've found that the recommended video card company does change over time. One will hold the lead sometimes in both price, quality, and performance for a while then the other will supplant them. The last couple of cards I've bought were not NVIDIAs and that was on the recommendation of a couple different people. Things could well have changed sense then though (I think there was some sort of problem with NVIDIA in the last couple of years that some are holding against them now). Tom's Hardware guide is usually a good place to look to see how the various video cards stack up price to performance wise. How well they hold up and how often and easy it is to update drivers is another matter and equally important.

I like dealing with a local store by the way. Packing things up and shipping them back to a manufacturer just isn't the way I like to operate. I'd rather take it back to a local store and actually talk to real people in person.

[Nihimon]

Saiph wrote:

Would you go with that card?

I honestly don't know. But I do know that just hearing your account of what your tech professional said has made me reevaluate my reflexive preference for Nvidia.

[Being]

Historically I've found the coders were better at Nvidia but lately their insistence that I also install shadowplay and all the 'Shield' marketing strongarm tactics have invited my grump. Nevertheless from what advertising I've seen ATI is pushing the unnecessary as well.

All I want are the best drivers: why can't they keep it that simple?

[Saiph]

Valkenr, would you buy an ASUS manufactured Radeon? I saw your previous comment about ATI so I was curious on this?

[Saiph]

While I'm at it can anyone recommend a good PC desk?

[LazarX]

Saiph wrote:

While I'm at it can anyone recommend a good PC desk?

That depends on what you want to set up. I've got a simple flat top from Ikea because I needed space for both a desktop and my work laptop.

[Nihimon]

Saiph wrote:

While I'm at it can anyone recommend a good PC desk?

Get a large desk - 60" - with no drawers. A Keyboard Tray is a big plus, but I strongly recommend getting one that's wide enough to hold a keyboard and two mousepads, so you can have a mouse on one side and another device on the other. We ended up creating our own keyboard trays to get something wide enough, but it's difficult to install them perfectly without the pre-drilled holes.

If I can get a link, I'll post it.

[Saiph]

Nihimon wrote:

Saiph wrote:

While I'm at it can anyone recommend a good PC desk?

Get a large desk - 60" - with no drawers. A Keyboard Tray is a big plus, but I strongly recommend getting one that's wide enough to hold a keyboard and two mousepads, so you can have a mouse on one side and another device on the other. We ended up creating our own keyboard trays to get something wide enough, but it's difficult to install them perfectly without the pre-drilled holes.

If I can get a link, I'll post it.

Can't decide if I want a keyboard tray, why do you prefer that out of curiousity?

[Caldeathe Baequiannia]

Keyboard trays are nice because the desk is clear for other things, and the keyboard and mouse are out of site and safe when you aren't using the machine. They are, however, less flexible, in that there's a lot more work than slipping them to the side if you want to rearrange things.

(edit: if you want to go all-out deluxe, a sit stand desk is nice for regular work. [probably not for gaming.])

[Nihimon]

Saiph wrote:

Can't decide if I want a keyboard tray, why do you prefer that out of curiousity?

Ergonomics is probably the biggest reason. It feels incredibly awkward to me to type on a keyboard that's on top of a desk, especially if there's a center drawer that stops me from raising my chair. Because I spend so many hours at my desk while playing, it's important that I not be straining my shoulders or wrists.

Cal's point about freeing up space is also important to me. I have three 28" monitors on my desk, and still have plenty of room in front of them to use pen and paper if that's advantageous.

[UnArcaneElection]

Having been out of the loop for a while and seeing all the negative comments about ATI, I have to ask: What's wrong with ATI?

[Caldeathe Baequiannia]

Nihimon wrote:

Saiph wrote:

Can't decide if I want a keyboard tray, why do you prefer that out of curiousity?

Ergonomics is probably the biggest reason.

The important part in Nihimon's comment is that you need your keyboard and chair at a compatible height. If you're using your keyboard on the desk, which I do, the desk surface needs to be a couple of inches lower than if you are using a keyboard drawer.

The chair height, desk height, and keyboard height are all inter-related, and not getting them right is hard on the body in the end.

[KarlBob]

**Sidetrack (from standing desks)**

There's at least one company offering a treadmill desk. A couple of years ago, some people posted a YouTube video showing how they translated walking on a treadmill into pushing the W key to walk or run in an MMO, using a home-built input device. I haven't found a commercially-available version of that input device. If somebody came out with one, I'd seriously consider turning PFO into an exercise program.

** /Sidetrack **

[T7V Jazzlvraz]

KarlBob wrote:

...treadmill desk.

Don't forget to order a generator to drive whilst you walk, too. Power your own game! :-)

[Neadenil Edam]

KarlBob wrote:

**Sidetrack (from standing desks)**

There's at least one company offering a treadmill desk. A couple of years ago, some people posted a YouTube video showing how they translated walking on a treadmill into pushing the W key to walk or run in an MMO, using a home-built input device. I haven't found a commercially-available version of that input device. If somebody came out with one, I'd seriously consider turning PFO into an exercise program.

** /Sidetrack **

There was some discussion back in the day in IL2 about increasing immersion when flying open cockpit biplanes by wearing flying helmet and goggles and having the speed of a large fan blowing in your face controlled by the throttle. When it rained in game you could get your partner/parent/flatmate to spray water into the fan.

Suggestions that your partner should hit you with a bat or set fire to your chair when you got shot down in flames were regarded as a trifle extreme.

[Saiph]

General Spec
Brand
ASUS
Model
M32AD-US032S
Type
Gaming & Entertainment
Usage
Consumer
Processor
InteL Core i7-4790 3.60 GHz
Processor Main Features
64 bit Quad-Core Processor
Cache Per Processor
8MB L3 Cache
Memory
16 GB DDR3 1600
Hard Drive
2 TB 7200 RPM
Optical Drive
Blu-Ray Disc Combo
Graphics
NVIDIA GeForce GT740 4 GB
Ethernet
Gigabit Ethernet
Wireless Card
802.11 ac and BT 4.0
Power Supply
300W
Keyboard
USB Keyboard
Mouse
USB Mouse
Operating System
Windows 8.1 64-Bit

Motherboard
Chipset
Intel H81

Found this ASUS cpu on Newegg for 969.00. Was curious what you all think? Would it be able to stream?

[Nihimon]

Saiph wrote:

Found this ASUS cpu on Newegg for 969.00. Was curious what you all think? Would it be able to stream?

I think the i7 CPU and the 16GB RAM should make it easy to stream even with multiple PFO clients running and other multi-tasking.

I'm a tad worried about the GTX 740 and the 300W Power Supply, though. It seems like those are in the "just barely enough" category, and you might find yourself upgrading them sooner than you'd want to. Still, budgets are budgets and it'll probably work fine.

[DeciusBrutus]

A generic 300W psu is marginal, but if you're not doing disk thrashing at the same time as heavy video and CPU usage it shouldn't burn out for at least a year.

[Saiph]

Thank you!

[Valkenr]

Saiph wrote:

Found this ASUS cpu on Newegg for 969.00. Was curious what you all think? Would it be able to stream?

At first glance, I wouldn't buy it. It looks like they took a fast processor and filled out the rest of it with sub par components. I doubt it could stream well. Keep in mind, most residential internet plans aren't setup for large upload speed as they are mostly used for downloading/browsing, so you need to have a plan a few rungs up the ladder to get reasonable streaming speeds, if you want to stream above 480p.

Here's my recommended setup, this is very similar, and a bit better in some respects than what I am running.

Total Cost: $1013.93

CPU - $239
Intel Core i5 3.5GHz

Motherboard -$164.99
ASUS GRYPHEN Z97

GPU - $189.99
Nvidia Geforce GTX 760 2GB

RAM -$159.99
Patriot Viper 3 16GB (2x8)

HDD - $103.99
Seagate 2TB, 64MB Cache

Power Supply - $59.99
Corsair CX600 600W

Case - $59.99
Cooler Master HAF 912

Disk drive
I'm not going to make a recommendation, as I never use mine (DL everything) and you can get one that "works" for pretty cheap.

Monitor
Again, not going to make a suggestion, just go on Amzon, You can get a 22' 1080p monitor for just over $100. Just make sure it says 1080p and has the 1920x1080 resolution listed somewhere. Some sellers either are trying to cheat people or don't know what they are listing.

If you want to expand your budget:
I would up the graphics card to the model with 4GB of VRAM, which will run you $249.99. (this really helps with PFO)
You can also double the RAM. (you can do this whenever, you can't easily mix/match ram, make sure it's the same model, if you can't find the same model find someone that knows what they are doing)
You can also upgrade the hard drive to have a larger cache, which will cost $159.99
I'm using pretty much the same setup, with those additions, and can run two clients simultaneously and stream. You are more likely to run into bandwidth problems than graphical ones.

[TEO Alexander Damocles]

Nihimon wrote:

Saiph wrote:

Found this ASUS cpu on Newegg for 969.00. Was curious what you all think? Would it be able to stream?

I think the i7 CPU and the 16GB RAM should make it easy to stream even with multiple PFO clients running and other multi-tasking.

I'm a tad worried about the GTX 740 and the 300W Power Supply, though. It seems like those are in the "just barely enough" category, and you might find yourself upgrading them sooner than you'd want to. Still, budgets are budgets and it'll probably work fine.

Upgrade to a GTX 760. Its a huge step up in performance for not that much of a price hike. I'll second Nihimon's worry on that power supply. That's *barely* enough to run that computer, I'm actually surprised it does run it tbh. If you ever go to upgrade your computer later, that PSU just won't cut it.

[Valkenr]

TEO Alexander Damocles wrote:

Nihimon wrote:

Saiph wrote:

Found this ASUS cpu on Newegg for 969.00. Was curious what you all think? Would it be able to stream?

I think the i7 CPU and the 16GB RAM should make it easy to stream even with multiple PFO clients running and other multi-tasking.

I'm a tad worried about the GTX 740 and the 300W Power Supply, though. It seems like those are in the "just barely enough" category, and you might find yourself upgrading them sooner than you'd want to. Still, budgets are budgets and it'll probably work fine.

Upgrade to a GTX 760. Its a huge step up in performance for not that much of a price hike. I'll second Nihimon's worry on that power supply. That's *barely* enough to run that computer, I'm actually surprised it does run it tbh. If you ever go to upgrade your computer later, that PSU just won't cut it.

I wouldn't say barely, it's enough to run those exact components and not be at 100% power consumption all the time.

That Graphics card is one of those tiny ones that only needs a 1 inch fan. It hardly takes any power.

That's the thing about pre-builts, they have the minimum support for the chosen components.

[Saiph]

This has been very helpful.

[Saiph]

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-21-5-led-hd-monitor/5818083.p?id=121915969 8849&skuId=5818083&ref=06&loc=01&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku =5818083&extensionType=pla:g&s_kwcid=PTC!pla!!!80819144119!g!M!5259 8531839&kpid=5818083&k_clickid=1180a421-065c-bd49-727c-00006c33c8c1 &kpid=5818083&lsft=ref:212,loc:1&ksid=1180a421-065c-bd49-727c-0 0006c33c8c1&ksprof_id=8&ksaffcode=150&ksdevice=m

Decent monitor, no?

[Valkenr]

Saiph wrote:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-21-5-led-hd-monitor/5818083.p?id=121915969 8849&skuId=5818083&ref=06&loc=01&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku =5818083&extensionType=pla:g&s_kwcid=PTC!pla!!!80819144119!g!M!5259 8531839&kpid=5818083&k_clickid=1180a421-065c-bd49-727c-00006c33c8c1 &kpid=5818083&lsft=ref:212,loc:1&ksid=1180a421-065c-bd49-727c-0 0006c33c8c1&ksprof_id=8&ksaffcode=150&ksdevice=m

Decent monitor, no?

Yep

[KarlBob]

Saiph wrote:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-21-5-led-hd-monitor/5818083.p?id=121915969 8849&skuId=5818083&ref=06&loc=01&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku =5818083&extensionType=pla:g&s_kwcid=PTC!pla!!!80819144119!g!M!5259 8531839&kpid=5818083&k_clickid=1180a421-065c-bd49-727c-00006c33c8c1 &kpid=5818083&lsft=ref:212,loc:1&ksid=1180a421-065c-bd49-727c-0 0006c33c8c1&ksprof_id=8&ksaffcode=150&ksdevice=m

Decent monitor, no?

Definitely decent, yes.

[DeciusBrutus]

Just one?

[Saiph]

DeciusBrutus wrote:

Just one?

Hey, I just purchased my first home; I'm officially poor.

:)

[T7V Jazzlvraz]

Saiph wrote:

...I just purchased my first home...

Congratulations! Prepare for Lowe's, Home Depot, and their ilk to become your best friends; you'll have a lovely--but short--period where projects will seem great fun.

[Saiph]

What router do you all use?

I was thinking of not using a router and connecting straight to my ISP but I just read an article and it says that's bad for security SO...

How about this?

[Valkenr]

$30-40 Linksys, don't need anything complicated or expensive unless you know what you are doing and have a reason to get one.

Are you talking about connecting to the box your ISP had installed in you home? Depends on what they installed. A lot of ISP's install router/modems which is fine to hook into. But if you just have a box with a single Ethernet cable coming out of it, get a router.

[Steelwing]

Whatever router or modem or other method you choose I suggest installing a firewall on your pc. Zonealarm is a free one that is adequate. When coupled with decent antivirus it will protect you from most problems though not all.

[Pyronous Rath]

When purchasing a new system your most important component is your mother board. I highly reccomend one of the new asus boards but any high end main board is the start of a system that will last you years. I personally just built a new machine and got the asus x99-e ws couldn't be happyer. Plus there is a rumor that these boards will be able to support the 2015 skylake proccessors as well as the haswell and xenon.