Goblin Squad Member
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Ibuypower.com is a pretty nice store.
General advice:
Get a larger power supply than you think you need, so you can expand later.
An i5 processor is all you need for gaming now, i7 is a waste of precious money.
Go NVIDIA on your graphics card, probably a GTX 760.
Shoot for about 8 GB of ram.
Get doubled fans for your tower, that should help keep the system last longer.
Hard drives, look at the transfer rate as well as the size, it actually does matter. Consider a Solid State Drive for your operating system for really fast boot times.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would suggest 32GB of ram for your system. RAM is inexpensive right now. The nVidia 760 is a good, solid workhorse that supports the nVidia Shadowplay so you can record your game sessions.
When you buy fans for your case, buy the low noise fans... It makes a HUGE difference in your gaming experience when you have a quiet machine and don't have the whine of fans and airflow ringing in your ears. I like the big fan cases because they can move more air with a slower fan speed, keeping things quiet.
Buy a plug in sound card rather than using the motherboard sound. I have never found a motherboard sound circuit that didn't pick up hummm from the motherboard. The sound cards seem to have better isolation.
One thing that shouldn't have to be said, if your going to have more than 4gb of ram then install the 64bit version of the operating system. :D
Boojum the brown bunny
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Goblin Squad Member
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Do you already have a keyboard, mouse, and monitor to use with your new PC, or are those staying with your current one?
What is your position on laptop computers?
I'll most likely be upgrading all of the above. I'd probably prefer a desktop just because it will be mainly used for gaming and I hear gaming laptops aren't ideal?
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Goblin Squad Member
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If you're comfortable building your own, this is a high-end gaming PC DIY kit from newegg.com. Or you can browse all their complete systems.
My advice for individual components:
Get the i7 CPU. It's not that much more expensive, and means you've got plenty of processor power to seriously multi-task - including streaming - while playing.
Get an Nvidia 770 2GB. 760 is the high end of the mid-range cards, 770 is the beginning of the high end cards. I honestly don't know if it will ever be worth it to have SLI.
Get a Z97 motherboard. I was really amazed how much difference going with a cheapo motherboard had on my game performance when I downgraded from an old Nvidia 790 and am very happy with my somewhat old X97.
Avoid 10,000 RPM Hard Drives - they overheat your system. If you really want the speed, get an SSD, but get someone else's advice on how to build around it... *shrugs*
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Goblin Squad Member
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*giggle* well, it wouldn't let me upload my actual avatar, so I went and searched on rabbit to see what showed up on the list here at Paizo.. and that was what showed up. Here is my actual avatar: http://www.evillair.org/pictures/BoojumDazAvatar.png
And yes, the artwork is mine. :D
Boojum the brown bunny
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Boojum the brown bunnyWhat an appropriate avatar! It's almost as if you had it in mind when choosing your name :)
What kind of madman would do such a thing! The horror! *Gasp*
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Goblin Squad Member
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Dell computers are not upgradable; build that into your value discussion.
UMMmmm... Dell Desktop Computers are certainly upgradable. I own several and all of them have been upgraded over the years. Dell Laptops are a horror and a pain, however, because of their power supplies. They have a very thin identification wire inside the cord that plugs into the laptop that breaks.. and then you get "External Power, Not Charging" all the time and will never be able to charge your laptop again even though the power supply provides enough power to charge it. That is how they get you to keep giving them money.
But as for my Dell Desktops, I have updated power supplies, graphics cards, memory, and sound cards all just as easily as on self built machines.
Boojum the brown bunny
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Goblin Squad Member
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Do you want technical support? if the answer is yes, your best bet is probably a Dell Alienware machine within your budget. Dell probably has the best tech support options of any line of machine you can buy.Hey there, I'm not techy at all so I'm requesting some assistance. I'd like to stay somewhere between 900-1.3k.
Thanks in advance!
I've had the exact opposite experience recently with Dell. I've had good luck with Toshiba, however.
Another thought: find your local computer repair store and get to know the owner and staff there. They can help if parts act weird, and tend to be pretty helpful. My local shop will take a computer and diagnose the problem for free, and tend to work really hard to find a good solution that works for you. *Invaluable* as time goes on, especially if you aren't comfortable with upgrading your machine yourself.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yes, you can upgrade dells. Though they are usually ATX form factor, small and crowded. If you are looking to start with a moderate system, and move up to high powered, they are a bad idea. They go out of date very quickly. After a while, you do need a new motherboard, and replacing one of those in a dell is either impossible or a nightmare.
If you have a Frys Electronics nearby, go in, tell them what you want and what your budget is. I have found their prices in computer components are some of the best.
Keep these statements in mind:
16 GB of 2400MHz RAM, 2 8GB sticks
Greater than 3.0 GHZ processor, intel i5 or i7
AMD sucks (the 8 core thing is a lie, that is hyper threading, i7's can do the same thing)
ATI sucks
ASUS rocks (I recommend getting an ASUS motherboard and Graphics Card)
Nvidia rocks
EVGA is OK. (If you can't find an ASUS card)
Nvidia Geforce 760 GTX 4GB VRAM - Runs 2 simultaneous instances of PFO perfectly for me.
Coolermaster makes good cases
Never get a 'super-clocked' 'over-clocked' 'hyper-clocked' or similar graphics card, they are prone to overheating, have shorter life, for an overall increase performance by 5-10%.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Dell computers are not upgradable; build that into your value discussion.UMMmmm... Dell Desktop Computers are certainly upgradable. I own several and all of them have been upgraded over the years. Dell Laptops are a horror and a pain, however, because of their power supplies. They have a very thin identification wire inside the cord that plugs into the laptop that breaks.. and then you get "External Power, Not Charging" all the time and will never be able to charge your laptop again even though the power supply provides enough power to charge it. That is how they get you to keep giving them money.
But as for my Dell Desktops, I have updated power supplies, graphics cards, memory, and sound cards all just as easily as on self built machines.
Boojum the brown bunny
Dell used to deliberately making everything non-standard so you had to buy Dell bits. Even the power supplies looked standard but were wired different and stuff could blow up. However they stopped doing that about 10 years ago. The "can not be upgraded" rep probably dates back to that time.
I think the laptop power supply thing can be worked around by changing a bios setting but not sure.
Main thing I have found with Dell is their advertised deals, providing you buy exactly what is offered, are very good value providing you do not change anything. Once you start upgrading bits on a new Dell the price suddenly ends up higher than a faster machine elsewhere.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thank you all very much. Are there any premade gaming rigs you all recommend?
The Acer Predator (Acer Predator AG3-605-UR1D Gaming PC with Intel Core i7-4770 Processor,12GB Memory,2TB Hard Drive,Nvidia GTX760 Graphics,HDMI Out,Bluetooth 4.0,Windows 8.1) has most of what people have been suggesting. You could get it and add some better fans to the case (Fans are inexpensive) Acer Predator for $1180
This Lenovo is good (Lenovo K450E-57327389 Desktop PC with Intel Core i7-4790 Processor,12GB Memory,1TB Hard Drive+8SSD,Nvidia GTX760 Graphics,Windows 8.1) and includes an SSD for that quick startin operating system. Lenovo for $1100
This Asus (Asus M32AD-US019s Desktop PC with Intel Core i7-4790 Processor,16GB DDR3 Memory,3TB Hard Drive,BD-R Combo Drive,Nvidia GTX760 3gb Graphics,G-Sync Ready,Windows 8.1) is pretty kickass and includes a 3TB Drive. Asus M32AD]Asus M32AD for $1300
Boojum the brown bunny
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm upgrading soon.
I already have 16GB of ram from 2 odd years ago and that's certainly only just barely enough, so I'll be getting more (32GB, ideally).
Really I need to upgrade because of my now-weak video card, which is a Radeon HD 6850. I feel like they don't even want to make drivers for it anymore, but it was noticably chugging when I played in the Evolve Big Alpha. I was looking into the NVIDIA cards as well , but struggled to know what to look for (GTX 760?). The recommended specs seemed like a pretty good benchmark to upgrade to for futureproofing.
I don't stream; I'm in Australia and that is rough enough with our bandwidth as it is. I'm guessing you likely wouldn't either by the sounds of it.
I've had an i7 for 2 odd years, I would feel pretty damn silly if I were to buy an i5 in a new machine now.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You mainly get more cores with an i7 which is not always a huge benefit as many games are still pretty much single core.
If you are tech savvy enough to dedicate apps to cores it may make more difference, especially if you are running multiple game clients and give them a core each.
It is also possible to disable some cores to allow more overclocking.
One thing not mentioned above is that you can now get some very elegant integrated waterblocks which are simple to install and the same price as a good CPU fan. Sure they will not give you the performance of LN2 or a dedicated custom block but they give better performance than fans at same price and are similar work to install so why not.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I was directed to Logical Increments by a previous thread on building a PC for PFO. I found it to be a very helpful site. It's organized into various ranges of power/cost, from 'bare bones/cheap' to 'state of the art/ridiculously expensive'. I followed their recommendations from the Excellent tier (within the price range you quoted above), and my machine handles PFO with no problems (well, none at my end...).
Regarding the price ranges - They don't include the cost of the operating system. The Excellent tier appears to be at the bottom of your price range. By the time I finished building everything and got Windows 7 installed, I was closer to the top of your range.
One more recommendation: Unless you buy a touchscreen monitor, do whatever it takes to get Windows 7. Windows 8 was designed from the ground up to work best on a tablet or laptop with a touchscreen. Version 8.1 tried to make things a little easier for non-touchscreen users, but it's still not very good.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thank you all very much. Are there any premade gaming rigs you all recommend?
If at all possible, I recommend a custom-built computer. If you don't feel like putting the parts together yourself (not gonna lie, it can be a finicky pain in the backside sometimes), then you could order the parts and have a friend/relative/local computer shop do the actual assembly. Even paying someone to put the parts together, you'll probably save money, and get a better, longer-lasting system. Logical Increments, from my last post, gives a much better explanation of the benefits than I can.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I was directed to Logical Increments...
So easy to lose an afternoon...and evening...there, just noodling around with ideas. Open a beer or pour a glass of wine before clicking KarlBob's link, though; it'll improve the experience.
EDIT: KarlBob pointed out below, correctly, that I was unclear; Logical Increments is the alcohol-worthy time-waster, the thread's a bit too fraught to contain significant fun.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If you're comfortable building your own, this is a high-end gaming PC DIY kit from newegg.com. Or you can browse all their complete systems.
My advice for individual components:
Get the i7 CPU. It's not that much more expensive, and means you've got plenty of processor power to seriously multi-task - including streaming - while playing.
Get an Nvidia 770 2GB. 760 is the high end of the mid-range cards, 770 is the beginning of the high end cards. I honestly don't know if it will ever be worth it to have SLI.
Get a Z97 motherboard. I was really amazed how much difference going with a cheapo motherboard had on my game performance when I downgraded from an old Nvidia 790 and am very happy with my somewhat old X97.
Avoid 10,000 RPM Hard Drives - they overheat your system. If you really want the speed, get an SSD, but get someone else's advice on how to build around it... *shrugs*
I like this advice, what's a reasonable price for this kind of system?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I spec'd it all out, and it totals at $1145, and that's with a few bonuses tossed in, such as professionally done wiring (they tie it all off), double fans, better heat sink gel, and a 2 TB hard drive.
Here comes all the specs, and note "X" is the equivalent to "not selected". The link for that configurator is right here.
Case 1 x NZXT Source 210 Mid Tower Case - Red
Case Lighting X
iBUYPOWER Labs - Noise Reduction X
iBUYPOWER Labs - Internal Expansion X
Processor 1 x Intel® Core™ i7-4790 Processor (4x 3.60GHz/8MB L3 Cache)
iBUYPOWER PowerDrive X
Processor Cooling 1 x Asetek 510LC Liquid CPU Cooling System [SOCKET-1150] - ARC Dual Silent High Performance Fan Upgrade (Push-Pull Airflow)
Memory 1 x 8 GB [4 GB x2] DDR3-1600 Memory Module - Corsair or Major Brand**Free Upgrade to DDR3-2133 G.SKILL RipjawsX.
Video Card 1 x NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 - 2GB - Single Card
Motherboard 1 x ASUS Z97-K -- 2x PCIe x16, 4x USB 3.0, 2x USB 2.0
Intel Smart Response Technology X
Power Supply 1 x 600 Watt - Standard - *Free Upgrade to 700 Watt Standard 80 PLUS* (Save $20)
Primary Hard Drive 1 x 2 TB HARD DRIVE -- 64M Cache, 7200rpm, 6.0Gb/s - Single Drive
Data Hard Drive X
Optical Drive 1 x 24x Dual Format/Double Layer DVD±R/±RW - Black -- Free Upgrade to LG Blu-ray Reader
2nd Optical Drive X
Media Card Reader / Writer X
Meter Display X
Sound Card 1 x 3D Premium Surround Sound Onboard
Network Card 1 x Onboard LAN Network (Gb or 10/100)
USB Expansion Card X
Operating System 1 x None- Pre-formatted Hard Drive Only
Keyboard 1 x iBUYPOWER Standard Gaming Keyboard
Mouse 1 x iBUYPOWER Standard Gaming Mouse
Monitor X
2nd Monitor X
Speaker System X
Webcam X
Advanced Build Options 1 x Tuniq TX-2 High Performance Thermal Compound - The best interface between your CPU and the heatsinks
Advanced Build Options 1 x Professional wiring for all cables inside the system tower - Achieve exceptional airflow in your chassis
Advanced Build Options 1 x Professional wiring for all cables inside the system tower - Basic Pro Wiring
Case Engraving Service X
Warranty 1 x 3 Year Standard Warranty Service
Rush Service 1 x No Rush Service (Usually Ships in 5-10 business Days)
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Goblin Squad Member
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The only thing I would consider adding to Alexander Damocles' system above is a 120 to 128 GB Solid State Drive (SSD), in addition to the conventional hard drive. With the operating system installed on the SSD, the computer itself boots up scary fast. (On my recently-built system, the little Windows 7 icon never even finishes its loading animation. The multi-colored rectangles are still swirling around when it suddenly snaps over to the login screen.) I don't know how much it would cost to add an SSD to the system above, but according to Logical Increments, they're currently running in the $70 to $85 range at Amazon.com.
Edit: The system above doesn't include any monitors, either. One monitor is essential. Two monitors can be very handy, but they do bump the cost up a bit. If you already have one, and you're happy with its size and performance, then you'll probably be able to plug it into the new computer.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well, monitors can be searched for all over the net and find various nice deals to them, and depends on what size you want.
I agree with the solid state drive, and if I remember correctly, you could add a small SSD for about $50 right now.
I personally prefer to do a clean install on a hard drive, so I don't get saddled with a bunch of bloatware I then have to spend time rooting out. If you prefer to have your system come with the operating system installed, ibuypower will take care of that for you as well. Personal preference is for Windows 7, but your mileage may vary on that one.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I spec'd it all out, and it totals at $1145, and that's with a few bonuses tossed in, such as professionally done wiring (they tie it all off), double fans, better heat sink gel, and a 2 TB hard drive.
Here comes all the specs, and note "X" is the equivalent to "not selected". The link for that configurator is right here.
Case 1 x NZXT Source 210 Mid Tower Case - Red
Case Lighting X
iBUYPOWER Labs - Noise Reduction X
iBUYPOWER Labs - Internal Expansion X
Processor 1 x Intel® Core™ i7-4790 Processor (4x 3.60GHz/8MB L3 Cache)
iBUYPOWER PowerDrive X
Processor Cooling 1 x Asetek 510LC Liquid CPU Cooling System [SOCKET-1150] - ARC Dual Silent High Performance Fan Upgrade (Push-Pull Airflow)
Memory 1 x 8 GB [4 GB x2] DDR3-1600 Memory Module - Corsair or Major Brand**Free Upgrade to DDR3-2133 G.SKILL RipjawsX.
Video Card 1 x NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 - 2GB - Single Card
Motherboard 1 x ASUS Z97-K -- 2x PCIe x16, 4x USB 3.0, 2x USB 2.0
Intel Smart Response Technology X
Power Supply 1 x 600 Watt - Standard - *Free Upgrade to 700 Watt Standard 80 PLUS* (Save $20)
Primary Hard Drive 1 x 2 TB HARD DRIVE -- 64M Cache, 7200rpm, 6.0Gb/s - Single Drive
Data Hard Drive X
Optical Drive 1 x 24x Dual Format/Double Layer DVD±R/±RW - Black -- Free Upgrade to LG Blu-ray Reader
2nd Optical Drive X
Media Card Reader / Writer X
Meter Display X
Sound Card 1 x 3D Premium Surround Sound Onboard
Network Card 1 x Onboard LAN Network (Gb or 10/100)
USB Expansion Card X
Operating System 1 x None- Pre-formatted Hard Drive Only
Keyboard 1 x iBUYPOWER Standard Gaming Keyboard
Mouse 1 x iBUYPOWER Standard Gaming Mouse
Monitor X
2nd Monitor X
Speaker System X
Webcam X
Advanced Build Options 1 x Tuniq TX-2 High Performance Thermal Compound - The best interface between your CPU and the heatsinks
Advanced Build Options 1 x Professional wiring for all cables inside the system tower - Achieve exceptional airflow in your chassis...
Thanks very much for this, I've got a lot of researching to do.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Thank you all very much. Are there any premade gaming rigs you all recommend?
I have a big custom config, it cost me 1300Euros, without the screen, keyboard or anything, just the tower.
And my little brother ends up playing everything at maximum quality, with the 600euros tower I bought him at the supermarket.
So my advice would be to simply trust walmart, actually, if you just want to play everything for the four next years, and if you don't do photography or 3D modelling.
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Goblin Squad Member
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Thank you all very much. Are there any premade gaming rigs you all recommend?I have a big custom config, it cost me 1300Euros, without the screen, keyboard or anything, just the tower.
And my little brother ends up playing everything at maximum quality, with the 600euros tower I bought him at the supermarket.
So my advice would be to simply trust walmart, actually, if you just want to play everything for the four next years, and if you don't do photography or 3D modelling.
This !!!
There is a nice to have and there is a good enough.
Ensure you have 8 GB and not 4 GB. I have up to three instances of PFO running in parallel on 8 GB if I need trading between accounts. It starts to get more sluggish when I have the third instance running.
Ensure you have a dedicated graphics card and a powerfull enough power supply.
I paid just over £400 for my system (no keyboard, mouse, monitor) including VAT which would be around $550 and it works prefectly fine on the best graphic setting.
Good enough versus nice to have:
Pentium Dual Core 3.0Ghz CPU - I checked it out in some reviews where it gave 95% of frame rates compared to an identical system with Core i7 for 20% of cost for the processor.
8 GB - I would not go for less. But more will only be needed if you have lots of other programs open at the same time. 32 GB sounds great - but why?
1 TB hard drive - well - that is already a lot more as I likely need size wise. SSD would be nice (no moving parts, startup time, noise) but comes at a cost. Same to have multiple hard drives.
Radeon R7 265 2GB Graphics Card - this card is based on last years technology. This means you get better tech now - but you pay for it to be cutting edge.
Cooling options - the whole system is quiet enough most of the time. It isn't perfect - but the dehumidifier in the same room is a lot louder - unless I switch it off.
And this is a system that I can also use for work - not that you can't use a 2 or 3 times more expensive rig for work.
You don't need a tier 3 weapon to kill a goblin - but you want something better as the starter club.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Should I get Windows 8 or 7?
I don't think you will really have a choice, it will be 8, if you buy it in the supermarket.
I can't use 8, because of the accessibility, but some people like it, so I don't know. If you are a creature of habit, 8 will be a little hard.
Anyway, 10 is on its way, so I don't think that's a very important decision, mostly a taste thing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Should I get Windows 8 or 7?
Go with Windows 8.1. Think of it as Windows 9 if that helps you feel like you're avoiding the every-other-version curse.
Windows 8 was largely rejected because of the attempt to push everyone onto a Microsoft app-store and away from simple Desktop Applications. Windows 8.1 walked back from that, and should be at least as good as Windows 7.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nihimon's right. The concern about Windows 8 (and metro) was way overblown. Disabling Metro isn't hard. My wife and I have both been using it happily for months.
Not that there's anything wrong with 7, but unless you can get if for dramatically cheaper, what's the point?
And as for Mac, Apple makes very nice machines, but if you aren't already committed, why be one of the "When will get a client" voices?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm with Alexander Damocles on this one. Windows 7 was designed for desktop computers, with spacious monitors, mice and keyboards. Windows 8 was designed for tablets, with relatively small screens that you touch to activate apps (aka programs). If you couldn't touch your screen, some things were strangely hard to do in Windows 8, right down to the level of getting past the welcome screen.
Windows 8 Metro apps are also designed with fewer features and options than Windows 7 programs. Again, this is better for tablets, with smaller type on smaller screens, but a step backward for desktop computers. (You can still get full featured programs by not choosing the Metro version, if possible.)
As others have said, Windows 8.1 backed off a little bit from the obsession with tablets. Still, to me it's a choice between an operating system written for desktop computers, and one written for tablets, then modified to be more useful on a desktop computer.
My advice: Go with Windows 7 now, and upgrade to Windows 10 later (preferably after it gets its first service pack).
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Goblin Squad Member
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Windows 8 was not, in particular, different from Windows 7, they just hid it behind the metro interface, which can be turned off quite easily. As long as you don't install the metro version of apps (always select the desktop version if offered a choice) it is not functionally different from 7. It has significant networking and security improvements. There is really no good reason to pay for Windows 7 now. If you can get if for free, or a great deal less than 8, that's fine, but otherwise it is not worth buying. If you don't ever decide to upgrade it, you will be losing support and updates a couple of years earlier for no good reason.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You are going to want Windows 8 because when Windows 9 comes out you will want the opportunity to upgrade to it at a discount, the same as Windows 7 people got a chance to updgrade to Windows 8 at a discount.
The system you are buying is advanced enough that it should last you through a new revision of windows.
Boojum the brown bunny
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Goblin Squad Member
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Currently it is very hard to get Win7 from mass box movers. We buy Win7 at work but they are enterprise level systems we buy in bulk from HP.
We buy Win7 because 8 has some serious issues in areas that effect us including compatibility with dual band networks. The ongoing issues with Win8 is NOT something to discuss on a forum as there will always be a bunch of people trying to showoff their "leet PC skills" by discussing how they disabled metro and tweaked this and that and turned Win8 into a solar powered swimming pool that even runs Nintendo 64 games.
Suffice to say that win8 sux in many ways for commercial use but is perfectly fine for most home/gaming use once you get use to (or replace) the ridiculous metro interface,
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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The ongoing issues with Win8 is NOT something to discuss on a forum as there will always be a bunch of people trying to showoff their "leet PC skills" by discussing how they disabled metro and tweaked this and that and turned Win8 into a solar powered swimming pool that even runs Nintendo 64 games.
Suffice to say that win8 sux in many ways for commercial use but is perfectly fine for most home/gaming use once you get use to (or replace) the ridiculous metro interface,
You so much can't imagine how much I agree with that.
The only big problem with 8, is if you're disabled like I am, metro becomes a really big problem, which are not dismissed just by changing it.