It's Thursdayish, are you done yet? :P
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And I don't think PFS rulings should be taken into account for new game materials.
So you are advocating ignoring a large swath of the Pathfinder community simply because they don't match your playstyle?
PFS should always be taken into account. Home games do have the freedom change rules they disagree with, unlike the players in the living campaign.
So will these "updates" be posted here or will it be part of a blog post?
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And I don't think PFS rulings should be taken into account for new game materials.So you are advocating ignoring a large swath of the Pathfinder community simply because they don't match your playstyle?
PFS should always be taken into account. Home games do have the freedom change rules they disagree with, unlike the players in the living campaign.
A topic for another thread most likely, but I think "living campaigns" have done a lot of damage to the hobby. I understand that it's great to have a network of gamers to make it easier to find a game, but the required portability and need for consistent rulings from table to table destroy a lot of what I think makes rpgs great. Surely, you could have a society of gamers without a persistent world or ironclad rules in a medium that was never intended to contain such things, no?
This coming update we're all waiting for is not going to be PFS legal, for example, but in the game I am in, a post from the designer is frankly MORE compelling than the actual game text.
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Surely, you could have a society of gamers without a persistent world or ironclad rules in a medium that was never intended to contain such things, no?
No, you cannot. Even within PFS table variation and playstyle differences already causes many issues. This is, however, a topic for a different thread.
Surely, you could have a society of gamers without a persistent world or ironclad rules in a medium that was never intended to contain such things, no?No, you cannot. Even within PFS table variation and playstyle differences already causes many issues. This is, however, a topic for a different thread.
Why not?
You can have something like PFS without making everything ironclad, you just have to let go of the idea of it being anything more than a system where you can be assured of having a game to play every week.
If I join a poker club I'm not going to fret if one table's playing Five Card Stud and the other's playing Texas Hold 'Em, you know?
Not relevant to the topic. Move it on.
Not relevant to the topic. Move it on.
There's not really anything to talk about here. The playtest is over. The only reason this thread isn't locked is so Mark can post the final update we're all waiting for.
People are still posting things about the class which is what this thread is about. Not PFS.
Thematically, i think that would be a terrible idea, doc. One of the reasons I love this class as is, is because it is the first time someone has built a telekinetic class that felt like telekinesis and not magic.
I like the idea of the animate objects ability, at least for Aether anyway. I would also like more healing and curative related abilities as well. Maybe an archetype that focuses on healing abilities.
I like the idea of the animate objects ability, at least for Aether anyway. I would also like more healing and curative related abilities as well. Maybe an archetype that focuses on healing abilities.
It was hinted that one would exist and that it would get Paladin Mercies as riders on Kinetic Healing.
And I don't think PFS rulings should be taken into account for new game materials.So you are advocating ignoring a large swath of the Pathfinder community simply because they don't match your playstyle?
PFS should always be taken into account. Home games do have the freedom change rules they disagree with, unlike the players in the living campaign.
I am strongly advocating for lobbying PFS to change its bad rulings rather than build a system around 3rd party rules.
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@doc the grey
I can see the ability to use animated weapons to get their full attacks and all the magic abilities of a weapon at range as a tele-blast option. I can also see using a tele-anything composite blast by surrounding the thrown object with elemental matter, like a flaming desk flipping across the room, or freezing a tapestry so it becomes heavier and more solid and throwing it. I don't feel like creating a flaming chair as an autonimous creature would benefit the class in any way, if that's what you mean. For one, if you want your character to do that it's perfectly well within your power already. Use spark of life, elementals may have "normal/preferred" forms, but they can be molded any which way you choose. If you want to have a living suit of ice armor follow you around, Spark of Life works well for that already. Floating chandelier of wind? Weird, but not rulebending. Go for it.Just realized I misunderstood what you said there. Dunno if I'd take that option, but animating objects as a spark of life equivalent wouldn't be out of line. Not my cup of tea, but a decent idea.
I believe the intention is to use animating objects as Aether's version of Spark of Life, since it cannot create elementals, using telekinesis to animate the object rather than animating objects with cold and fire.
The first session of my game is Thursday night :(Given the requisite meeting has been pushed a bit, I would say Thursdayish or Fridayish may be more likely (which is probably still Wednesdayish, depending on the definition of Wednesdayish, but just to prevent people from getting antsy on Wednesday proper).Also, it's next week already. I'm dying to see what all gets nerfed/buffed. Come on Mark, let's hear the good news!Quote the Seifter, 'Wednesdayish'.
Expect the post mortem in this thread next week, maybe Wednesdayish, with all sorts of teasers of goodies to come.
Cheers!
Mark
Quite sorry about that. Unfortunately, the meeting schedule is outside of my control. I could go ahead and post before the meeting, but then that would go against the reason you guys told me to wait in the first place (the fact that the meeting will allow me to be more certain of which of my changes will go in).
Take your time Mark, just make sure you post an update when the meeting is finished. :)
Quite sorry about that. Unfortunately, the meeting schedule is outside of my control. I could go ahead and post before the meeting, but then that would go against the reason you guys told me to wait in the first place (the fact that the meeting will allow me to be more certain of which of my changes will go in).The first session of my game is Thursday night :(Given the requisite meeting has been pushed a bit, I would say Thursdayish or Fridayish may be more likely (which is probably still Wednesdayish, depending on the definition of Wednesdayish, but just to prevent people from getting antsy on Wednesday proper).Also, it's next week already. I'm dying to see what all gets nerfed/buffed. Come on Mark, let's hear the good news!Quote the Seifter, 'Wednesdayish'.
Expect the post mortem in this thread next week, maybe Wednesdayish, with all sorts of teasers of goodies to come.
Cheers!
Mark
I was just being silly. I totally understand. I doubt level 3 will look especially different beyond more skills anyway. ;)
I was just being silly. I totally understand. I doubt level 3 will look especially different beyond more skills anyway. ;)Quite sorry about that. Unfortunately, the meeting schedule is outside of my control. I could go ahead and post before the meeting, but then that would go against the reason you guys told me to wait in the first place (the fact that the meeting will allow me to be more certain of which of my changes will go in).The first session of my game is Thursday night :(Given the requisite meeting has been pushed a bit, I would say Thursdayish or Fridayish may be more likely (which is probably still Wednesdayish, depending on the definition of Wednesdayish, but just to prevent people from getting antsy on Wednesday proper).Also, it's next week already. I'm dying to see what all gets nerfed/buffed. Come on Mark, let's hear the good news!Quote the Seifter, 'Wednesdayish'.
Expect the post mortem in this thread next week, maybe Wednesdayish, with all sorts of teasers of goodies to come.
Cheers!
Mark
Just go ahead and give yourself 4 skill points. Of all the things we'll be discussing, given the survey question I sneaked in there and you guys' response to it, I'm pretty sure I have traction on that one.
No pressure. *twitches*
I'd be curious to see an archetype focused heavily on forms, an AoE master that deals in sweeping gouts of fire, giant earthquake zones, or massive waves of ice and water. The current design allows for one or two fairly weak and small Aoe's with half your damage and 1/4 on a save, I'm thinking more like a few d6 short of a fireball, and pick any x adjacent squares, so you can make it your own design. *slaps a Gargantuan sized flaming handprint into the crowd of goblins*
This class feels like it could do crowd control very well, thematically, but the mechanics don't quite seem there for the normal build. Which is good, because I don't want them there for every Kineticist. But the option to specialize that way would be nice.
I'm hoping to see this too, but I hope that AoE options for vanilla Kineticists get a bit of a boost too? As a 9th level Aerokineticist, I found my blast was seriously lacking any real punch due to the low DC, and the halved and then halved again damage when the enemies made their save.
I'm not really expecting to punch holes in mountains or wipe out armies in a single shot, but 14 damage to two enemies, as opposed to the 56 damage I rolled originally just didn't seem at all that impressive. =/
Edit: Forgot to say, I've always assumed a "It'll be done when it's done" attitude with things like this. That said, squeee! 18 more skillpoints! You're the best Mark! =D
No pressure. *twitches*
I'd be curious to see an archetype focused heavily on forms, an AoE master that deals in sweeping gouts of fire, giant earthquake zones, or massive waves of ice and water. The current design allows for one or two fairly weak and small Aoe's with half your damage and 1/4 on a save, I'm thinking more like a few d6 short of a fireball, and pick any x adjacent squares, so you can make it your own design. *slaps a Gargantuan sized flaming handprint into the crowd of goblins*
This class feels like it could do crowd control very well, thematically, but the mechanics don't quite seem there for the normal build. Which is good, because I don't want them there for every Kineticist. But the option to specialize that way would be nice.
I'm hoping to see this too, but I hope that AoE options for vanilla Kineticists get a bit of a boost too? As a 9th level Aerokineticist, I found my blast was seriously lacking any real punch due to the low DC, and the halved and then halved again damage when the enemies made their save.
I'm not really expecting to punch holes in mountains or wipe out armies in a single shot, but 14 damage to two enemies, as opposed to the 56 damage I rolled originally just didn't seem at all that impressive. =/
Edit: Forgot to say, I've always assumed a "It'll be done when it's done" attitude with things like this. That said, squeee! 18 more skillpoints! You're the best Mark! =D
(emphasis mine) why shouldnt you? wizards can do it.
It's Fridayish, and I don't see a post mortem.
I am disappoint!
Just kidding.
Yep. Noticed that and marked it at the bottom that I'd eventually caught on. Lol.I believe the intention is to use animating objects as Aether's version of Spark of Life, since it cannot create elementals, using telekinesis to animate the object rather than animating objects with cold and fire.
Just realized I misunderstood what you said there. Dunno if I'd take that option, but animating objects as a spark of life equivalent wouldn't be out of line. Not my cup of tea, but a decent idea.
Thing is, it's not telekinetic. Unless that object has joints that bend already, using telekinesis to create animated objects would just break the objects Giving the legs of a chair "knees" is just going to result in shattered chair legs, for example.
And that's not including the sentience required in the object for it do do more than being a puppet on telekinetic strings...
No pressure. *twitches*
I'd be curious to see an archetype focused heavily on forms, an AoE master that deals in sweeping gouts of fire, giant earthquake zones, or massive waves of ice and water. The current design allows for one or two fairly weak and small Aoe's with half your damage and 1/4 on a save, I'm thinking more like a few d6 short of a fireball, and pick any x adjacent squares, so you can make it your own design. *slaps a Gargantuan sized flaming handprint into the crowd of goblins*
This class feels like it could do crowd control very well, thematically, but the mechanics don't quite seem there for the normal build. Which is good, because I don't want them there for every Kineticist. But the option to specialize that way would be nice.
I'm hoping to see this too, but I hope that AoE options for vanilla Kineticists get a bit of a boost too? As a 9th level Aerokineticist, I found my blast was seriously lacking any real punch due to the low DC, and the halved and then halved again damage when the enemies made their save.
I'm not really expecting to punch holes in mountains or wipe out armies in a single shot, but 14 damage to two enemies, as opposed to the 56 damage I rolled originally just didn't seem at all that impressive. =/
Trouble is that unless they start merging Talents, we'll never be able to fully use everything. Even taking a feat every other level to add a Talent, I find myself sorely lacking in what all I feel I, as a Telekineticist, should be able to do. :(
Admittedly, as a mid-tier BAB Class, guess there's only so much to do... I think what we really need is an Alternate Class that does low-tier BAB, has twice as many talents, and effects (BG Control) instead of damage...?
If it doesn't make it into the book, I'm totally going to be writing up a Monk/Kineticist archetype to mimic the abilities of Yusuke Urameshi from Yu Yu Hakusho. Yusuke is a Spirit Detective the tracks and hunts down rogue spirits from the spirit world and fights demons. He's a skilled martial artist (hence, Monk), that possesses an abundance of 'spirit energy' (Ki/kinetic power) that he can fire out of his fingers like a gun (Kinetic Blast). As he grows more powerful, he can alter and shape these 'spirit guns' to do different things (wild talents), like Spirit Shotgun, or Spirit Wave.
I envision it as something along the lines of the Monk gaining the ability to fire Kinetic Blasts that deal force damage, but costs Ki Points to fire (1 ki per shot). As he levels up, he learns how to shape his blast differently (shotgun/wave) but it costs more Ki to use these additional types. I would imagine that he also gains the ability to sense spirits and, eventually, outsides and extraplanar creatures, similar to a constant Detect Evil.
I would imagine that he also gains the ability to sense spirits and, eventually, outsides and extraplanar creatures, similar to a constant Detect Evil.
Oh you should check out the Druid Menhir Savant archetype from Ultimate Magic. They get spirit sense which would be perfect for that:
Spirit Sense (Sp): At 1st level, a menhir savant can detect the presence of undead; fey; outsiders; and astral, ethereal, or incorporeal creatures. This ability functions like detect undead, and the druid detects all of these creatures rather than trying to detect one kind. This ability replaces nature sense and wild empathy.
Throwing things around is fine, that's how it should be. Just not "animating" (Spark of Life). Ie: We're on the same page. ;)
I can see it as more of selecting an object that moves as it normally would to do things it normally would. Animate a chair, and it can fly around knocking into things, but is treated as the object it normally would be rather than a blast, uses your con as the damage mod, and gets your iteratives. Weapons is the ideal choice here, but suits of armor could be cool. Most other object are situationally useful for it. Spend a burn just like Spark of Life and you can relegate the control to the back of your mind and not have to spend standards to move it. So you can have a suit of armor or a floating weapon wandering around provoking and flanking and such, which you blast away.You wouldn't give a chair knees, but you could make a silver throne deal bludgeoning silver damage as it flies around slamming into things.
It fits very well with the occult theme if you make the Telekineticist into an Ectokineticist like I've been hoping for. I doubt they will, but I'm crossing fingers for an archetype at least.
You lost me where I bolded. That sounds like I can finally make Alphonse Elric.
Weapons would be able to make normal attacks as per Dancing special ability. Armor would be able to make slam attacks, maybe make attacks of opportunity, guard doorways, flip switches (which you could do with your tele anyways, but he can then guard the switch), set off traps as if he was a regular party member... Basically be a single zombie summon spell.Of course, in keeping with the occult theme again, you could have multiple ghosts housed in an item, so if you can control up to x ghosts at any given level (I'm thinking up to 10 ghosts by lvl 20) you can use them as Enhancement Bonuses to the "living" item, (I should say "live in" item... badumpsh) or to add other effects. 1 ghost animates it under your control, 2 makes it autonomous, and more start adding bonuses like 1D4 force, 1D6 cold, +1 EB, or similar. Or have up to 5 unaugmented possessed...
Too much, too magical... sorry, to do that, you'd have to imbue the item with some level of sentience, and that's not telekinetic. If it's more than you could do with puppet strings, it's too much I think. Rather than animated objects, I'd favor a more telekinetic theme... like "Repulsion" which would basically bull rush anything not fastened down; away from you. Or like the old school anti-gravity spell... :P
Is it Wednesday-ish yet? =p
Is it Wednesday-ish yet? =p
Trust me, I'm as eager as you guys to know for sure which changes I get to keep and then give you guys some idea of what's to come, but this meeting keeps being postponed. I can't even guarantee it will happen today. I certainly hope that it will happen by early next week, but no more -"ish"es from me. Instead I'll just say this:
"Whenever the meeting does happen, I'll guarantee that I'll have a post out by the next business day at the latest, barring only my absence from work that day or an unexpected emergency."
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I believe the intention is to use animating objects as Aether's version of Spark of Life, since it cannot create elementals, using telekinesis to animate the object rather than animating objects with cold and fire.@doc the grey
I can see the ability to use animated weapons to get their full attacks and all the magic abilities of a weapon at range as a tele-blast option. I can also see using a tele-anything composite blast by surrounding the thrown object with elemental matter, like a flaming desk flipping across the room, or freezing a tapestry so it becomes heavier and more solid and throwing it. I don't feel like creating a flaming chair as an autonimous creature would benefit the class in any way, if that's what you mean. For one, if you want your character to do that it's perfectly well within your power already. Use spark of life, elementals may have "normal/preferred" forms, but they can be molded any which way you choose. If you want to have a living suit of ice armor follow you around, Spark of Life works well for that already. Floating chandelier of wind? Weird, but not rulebending. Go for it.Just realized I misunderstood what you said there. Dunno if I'd take that option, but animating objects as a spark of life equivalent wouldn't be out of line. Not my cup of tea, but a decent idea.
This is pretty close to what I was envisioning. Like instead of them imbuing their element with a spark of their being a telekinetic is wrapping telekinetic force around an object and directing it to attack like a puppet. My telekinetic imbues his will upon the empty chair next to him and has it assault his captors, swinging and smashing at them with its wooden legs and arms with reckless abandon or filling a standing suite of armor with his drawn aether and sending it charging at bad guys.
I mean in my mind spark of life already basically lets a user make a fighting doll out of whatever element they are attuned to. The walking elemental ball is mindless and can only act if the kineticist spends a move action directing it to act. If that's the case then it makes a lot of sense for my telekinetic to be able to wrap my aethiric will about an object and cause it to shamble after someone like an animated creature. I mean if a geomancer can make a hunk of wall grow arms and amble after a dude why not let me use a suit of armor like a hollow action figure I move with my telekinetics?
Is it Wednesday-ish yet? =pTrust me, I'm as eager as you guys to know for sure which changes I get to keep and then give you guys some idea of what's to come, but this meeting keeps being postponed. I can't even guarantee it will happen today. I certainly hope that it will happen by early next week, but no more -"ish"es from me. Instead I'll just say this:
"Whenever the meeting does happen, I'll guarantee that I'll have a post out by the next business day at the latest, barring only my absence from work that day or an unexpected emergency."
I've noticed there have been no blog posts pretty much all week...is something going on ?
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...I believe the intention is to use animating objects as Aether's version of Spark of Life, since it cannot create elementals, using telekinesis to animate the object rather than animating objects with cold and fire.@doc the grey
I can see the ability to use animated weapons to get their full attacks and all the magic abilities of a weapon at range as a tele-blast option. I can also see using a tele-anything composite blast by surrounding the thrown object with elemental matter, like a flaming desk flipping across the room, or freezing a tapestry so it becomes heavier and more solid and throwing it. I don't feel like creating a flaming chair as an autonimous creature would benefit the class in any way, if that's what you mean. For one, if you want your character to do that it's perfectly well within your power already. Use spark of life, elementals may have "normal/preferred" forms, but they can be molded any which way you choose. If you want to have a living suit of ice armor follow you around, Spark of Life works well for that already. Floating chandelier of wind? Weird, but not rulebending. Go for it.Just realized I misunderstood what you said there. Dunno if I'd take that option, but animating objects as a spark of life equivalent wouldn't be out of line. Not my cup of tea, but a decent idea.
This is pretty close to what I was envisioning. Like instead of them imbuing their element with a spark of their being a telekinetic is wrapping telekinetic force around an object and directing it to attack like a puppet. My telekinetic imbues his will upon the empty chair next to him and has it assault his captors, swinging and smashing at them with its wooden legs and arms with reckless abandon or filling a standing suite of armor with his drawn aether and sending it charging at bad guys.
I mean in my mind spark of life already basically lets a user make a fighting doll out of whatever element they are attuned to. The
I get that but I don't think anyone's saying that anymore than they are saying it's a problem with the normal use of it. Hell if I'm geomancing in a silver shop I could just as easily pull that off or hell anywhere since the shape of my sparked creation is really left to, the kineticist. As for the sentience it is a small piece of the creators consciousness rather than a new mind coming into existence so it's probably going to have more in line with it's parent mind then some new person. But if someone wants to have an animated creation with the mind of a matronly maid there is nothing stopping them from pulling that off with any of the other kineticists either though I don't know how helpful that will be in say, wasting some bandits lol.
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Like for me, the biggest thing I'm picturing is getting chased down that classic hall of mounted armors, stopping, and turning to my party and going, "I got this" and then start animating these suites of armor and sending them charging at the guards all the while blood dripping from his nose as he starts animating a small army.
Ohh or ending up in a kitchen and animating a swarm of butcher knives to come flying at the bandits who chased me in there.
Or s~+&, being on a battlefield and animating a broken trebutchet to stand up and start smacking orcs around with its giant catapult arm while trundling along on some broken tension wheels.
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You guys should read the section on burn. If you are immune to nonlethal damage then you are also unable to accept burn.This is a question that needs to be answered for undead in general. (Not that they would do to well with no Con score, but still)Question, you can't reduce the nonlethal damage from burn, but what if you're immune to Non-Lethal Damage altogether?
Reference : Mummification Discovery.The alchemist’s type does not change, but he becomes immune to cold, nonlethal damage, paralysis, and sleep.Alchemist 10/Kineticist 10 hardly feels like an overpowered character, especially since I have a burn cap anyways, but this could be fairly interesting if someone can find another way to become immune to non-lethal.
Yep... and this is why I shouldn't be up at 3 in the morning reading forums, apparently. I KNEW that was the case, but suffered from some serious late night, sleep deprived cerebral flatulence.
Like for me, the biggest thing I'm picturing is getting chased down that classic hall of mounted armors, stopping, and turning to my party and going, "I got this" and then start animating these suites of armor and sending them charging at the guards all the while blood dripping from his nose as he starts animating a small army.
Ohh or ending up in a kitchen and animating a swarm of butcher knives to come flying at the bandits who chased me in there.
Or s!+$, being on a battlefield and animating a broken trebutchet to stand up and start smacking orcs around with its giant catapult arm while trundling along on some broken tension wheels.
Thats magic, not telekinesis. :(
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Thats magic, not telekinesis. :(Like for me, the biggest thing I'm picturing is getting chased down that classic hall of mounted armors, stopping, and turning to my party and going, "I got this" and then start animating these suites of armor and sending them charging at the guards all the while blood dripping from his nose as he starts animating a small army.
Ohh or ending up in a kitchen and animating a swarm of butcher knives to come flying at the bandits who chased me in there.
Or s!+$, being on a battlefield and animating a broken trebutchet to stand up and start smacking orcs around with its giant catapult arm while trundling along on some broken tension wheels.
Well, isn't that all "magic"?
No, telekinetics is mind over matter. There is a thematic difference between a Kinetic Arcane School, which would imbue items with the ability to move, and telekinetics which is someone generating kinetic energy through their mind.
Albeit, in our mundane world, it is all magic, but not in a metaphysic world. And using the word "telekinetically" doesnt make it thematic either... Such as 4e (D&D), "telekinetically ripping open a hole in space time to teleport". The best thing about this class has been that it hasnt had a magic feel. It has been true to telekinetics as perceived by the rest of the world. Sensing kinetic energy, and either effecting it, or creating it.