Goblin Squad Member
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And I'd like to add many of these people giving feedback wouldn't criticize GW no matter what they delivered..... and I actually got a PM from an ex-TSV yesterday completely disillusioned with this product and the crowdforging process informing me they won't be playing this game.
Oh and you might find this part of their PM interesting...
Ex TSV Member wrote:
Nihimon, Being & Jazz are perfect examples, they just adapt their opinions To the dev's...
You have a secret anonymous informant with evidence that the 'big 3 ' are conspiring to brainwash us into never criticizing what GW does ? WOW! Now I understand your mission to show us the real truth. PFO sucks and we don't even know it, our happiness is all a lie.
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It's really just sad to see so many members of the community reacting so negatively this early into the game, and we wonder why big companies have NDAs. :-(
What happened to wanting this game to succeed? Instead you're trying to kill it before it's even born; you are your own worst enemy.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You have a secret anonymous informant with evidence that the 'big 3 ' are conspiring to brainwash us into never criticizing what GW does ? WOW! Now I understand your mission to show us the real truth. PFO sucks and we don't even know it, our happiness is all a lie.
And I'd like to add many of these people giving feedback wouldn't criticize GW no matter what they delivered..... and I actually got a PM from an ex-TSV yesterday completely disillusioned with this product and the crowdforging process informing me they won't be playing this game.
Oh and you might find this part of their PM interesting...
Ex TSV Member wrote:
Nihimon, Being & Jazz are perfect examples, they just adapt their opinions To the dev's...
Andius himself has had some good crowdforging ideas that changed the path of the development. He's just an all or nothing guy who expects people to do EVERYTHING he says in the order he says it and apocolypse to those who disagree. I've had maybe 20 crowdforging ideas and I've actually been listened to maybe once. I think that's a smashing ratio.
The crowdforging process and GW's willingness to actually abide by it is EASILY the #1 strength of this game so far and its #1 selling point heading into monetization. I think it's a much stronger case than lens flare suns.
Obviously, some people will understand the process in an absurd way, thinking they get to order features like a Ponderosa buffet. Nine hells to those people imo.
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Goblin Squad Member
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LiF does look superior to PFO (in its current stage) in many aspects of the game. That being said, I feel they both have potential.
SAD's were NEVER promised as day 1 EE material. As a matter of fact it was really far down the line until crowdforging placed it up the priority list. The formation system? Well naturally that's going to be in for LiF before PFo because it's a primary feature for them, secondary feature not needed until settlement warfare is in over here.
I do agree that the game is probably about 3 months away before anybody will be willing to fork over $15/month, but that's EXACTLY why the only people playing it for the first 3 months are pre paid Kickstarter backers.
I am completely failing to see what about this EE is not EXACTLY what GW has been telling you day 1 was going to be like for a couple years now. So why the pouting now? If you want to wait 3 months, WAIT THREE MONTHS. If the game had started last month when I felt it wasn't ready I would have waited too.
Thank you. You said what I was feeling much better than I could compose.
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It's really just sad to see so many members of the community reacting so negatively this early into the game, and we wonder why big companies have NDAs. :-(
What happened to wanting this game to succeed? Instead you're trying to kill it before it's even born; you are your own worst enemy.
Part of the answer is the responses we have received from potential players. Dozens of offers of alpha invites left unused or outright rejected.
I'm here for two years, regardless of the condition of the game or its population. This is why I would rather they wait until more is in game. That way their presentation of EE will be more appealing.
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I invested in PFO for two reasons.
1. Every Open World PvP Sandbox on the market at the time of PFO's announcement (Minus EVE which had unbearably boring combat) was being produced by amateur developers. They all had good ideas and were working toward things that would make them great.
However the pacing was terrible. These tiny underfunded companies simply could not advance at a reasonable pace, and it felt like I was just sitting there waiting literal years for them to get there game to a point it was playable. The huge grind issues in Darkfall, the ridiculous racial imbalance issues in Mortal (might as well not play if you don't plan to play an elf or half-orc). etc. I had major concerns I had raised 2-3 years before that still had not been addressed. It was ridiculous.
Pathfinder Online sold me because they had experienced developers and the backing of a major company (Paizo). I figured "surely here is a company that can produce a quality product in a reasonable timeframe."
2. Pathfinder Online sold me because they made me believe they would create a system that would allow for massive amounts of meaningful PvP while screening out a lot of crap that would drive newbs from the community. All of these types of games I've played before had a veteran population mainly comprised of RPKers.
Here is my issues now:
On point one PFO isn't alone anymore. There are lots of promising sandbox projects coming out. Star Citizen, Life is Feudal, Project Legion etc. And some of the older titles such as Darkfall and Mortal have made great leaps forward in the time I've been waiting on PFO. I don't care who has the smallest budget as much as I care about who is producing the best product and I feel like PFO is falling behind the competition.
My concerns are compounded by several factors.
1. I feel like these forums have a huge population of fanboys stroking GW's egos and making it seem like they can do no wrong. What we need to be doing is lighting a fire under their ass and criticizing the problems with this game so that they will get addressed. This game is behind where it should be after several months of alpha. Criticizing GW doesn't mean you don't care about this project. It means you want to see them address their failures and those failures definitely exist.
2. I've noticed a tendency from GW to reinvent the wheel. They are building their forums from scratch. A tab targeted combat system from scratch. Everything from scratch. The result is a crappy forum, a crappy combat system, a crappy everything. You are building in UNITY. You cannot tell me unity possess no assets you could just purchase to give yourself a functional vanilla theme-park combat system and modify it from there. Or auction house system for that matter. And I KNOW you could have done fine with pre-packaged forums. Sure it's not innovative but at least it would work! I'd like to see GW stop wasting so much time trying to be innovators in every aspect of the game and give us a function product ASAP THEN innovate with it. I would be perfectly content with WoW style combat, WoW style auction houses etc. + a functional feud and reputation system as the MVP for EE. It would be better than what we have now.
3. I feel like the two greatest assets we have on the GW team for developing this kind of game would be Lee Hammock (Fallen Earth) and Tork Shaw (Darkfall). The main representation we are seeing from GW is not someone who actually worked on EVE, but their PR/marketing guy. Maybe the developers are 100% on board with how this project is being run but we don't know that. I really feel like some more input from the actual developers who are creating the actual game might be very enlightening to this community who at the moment seem to have more Ryan fanboys than people who even know the names of the guys actually building this game.
4. This game's community has proven consistently to have little to no experience in these kinds of games as a whole. Yet the main crowdforging tool is one that simply gauges what % of the community supports our feedback. If that was a system that works in giving people high quality products then we would be producing high quality candidates for our executive an legislative branches in the US and we all know how that's going. The crowdforging process is a folly, and if we continue to rely on so heavily on ideascale this title will crash and burn.
5. Most of the new sandboxes coming out now have their own systems addressing random ganking. The current reputation shows little thought into how to address the issue. I give it 1 star. The fanboys of the community seems completely satisfied with it and GW has made no indication they intend to address it. At this point Mortal Online already has a better system and LiF and Star Citizen are both shaping up to have one.
Currently I own:
175$ Buddy Package W/DT+ All Daily Deals + Add Ons
300$ Brewmaster Package W/DT + Add Ons
155$ Account W/DT + All Daily Deals (I know that's what I paid the previous owner for it and I just paid them the cost of the account and add ons.)
So I have over 600$ in assets in this game. Thats not counting my investments into TEO's tavern or the accounts I bought during the first kickstarter and have sold since then.
I invested A LOT in this game and really want to see it succeed. But I'm losing faith that it will. At this point if I could get my money back and walk I think I would because I have serious concerns about whether this game will ever make it to OE or not and I don't really want to invest 600+$ +60$ a month into a title that will just be shut down in a couple years or never amount to anything more than DF and Mortal while there are numerous more promising titles that seem to actually be delivering an amazing product.
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Part of the answer is the responses we have received from potential players. Dozens of offers of alpha invites left unused or outright rejected.It's really just sad to see so many members of the community reacting so negatively this early into the game, and we wonder why big companies have NDAs. :-(
What happened to wanting this game to succeed? Instead you're trying to kill it before it's even born; you are your own worst enemy.
Same results here. I have failed to get anyone interested in this game who was not already here on these forums since the release of alpha.
I remember when Amora watched me play her comments were about how slow and lame the combat looked. And this was before I had voiced any complaints about PFO to her.
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We sure will miss you.
No such luck. I DO have 600$ invested in this game and I'll be keeping at least two of those accounts active until TEO/TSV cease to exist or this game shuts down. Whichever comes fist.
However I am not representative of the players this title will have to win over who haven't already invested hundreds of dollars into and made deep rivalries within the community.
Those kind of players have no reason to tolerate a sub par product, and from what I'm seeing, most of them aren't. And as much as I'm sure the fanboys would like to "good riddance" them all too, you can't succeed without them.
Another point I'd like to add. Currently I cannot sell off any of those accounts at cost. The sellers market for PFO accounts is pretty dry unless you are willing to mark your accounts down in value.
In Star Citizen I purchased a few ships in the KS that I sold for huge profits earlier this year. One I actually sold for over double it's original price and made hundreds of dollars off of.
That should be an indication of the relative health of these games to anyone who really wants to be honest.
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No such luck. I DO have 600$ invested in this game and I'll be keeping at least two of those accounts active until TEO/TSV cease to exist or this game shuts down. Whichever comes fist.
This should be good news for GW. They will have a guaranteed $30/month from you for potentially a couple of decades or more.
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Goblin Squad Member
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No such luck. I DO have 600$ invested in this game and I'll be keeping at least two of those accounts active until TEO/TSV cease to exist or this game shuts down. Whichever comes fist.This should be good news for GW. They will have a guaranteed $30/month from you for potentially a couple of decades or more.
But more likely a few months. Accounts with DT not being able to be sold at cost is a REALLY bad sign for the health of this game since like Decius said, their value could actually add up to thousands of dollars in the longterm if this game stays active that long. The fact you can barely get 100$ shows people have very low confidence/interest in this title. It's worth 180$ in the first year alone not counting the daily deals, add ons, or fact they get access on the first day of EE. It's going for about half that.
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One I actually sold for over double it's original price and made hundreds of dollars off of.
Do you have a link to your manifesto? My wife tells me I shouldn't enjoy red meat as much as I do for many reasons. I enjoy hearing her reasons. I haven't followed any of your crowdforging suggestions. I'd like a summary.
I've been playing Alpha for 2 weeks. I would pay $15 a month for the game right now for character achievement persistence. I'm probably not alone.
Let's pretend Goblinworks stopped development today. Let's say, hypothetically, that my subscription along with those of a few other fanatical Pathfinder fans could pay for the server maintenance required to keep the game running. Please tell me why you or anyone else who does not like the game should be so 'worried' about growing the user base at all, let alone take in all the Life is Feudal, wow, Destiny, Farmville, Michael Bay or whatever other 'competitive entertainment dollars' are out there?
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Let's pretend Goblinworks stopped development today. Let's say, hypothetically, that my subscription along with those of a few other fanatical Pathfinder fans could pay for the server maintenance required to keep the game running. Please tell me why you or anyone else who does not like the game should be so 'worried' about growing the user base at all, let alone take in all the Life is Feudal, wow, Destiny, Farmville, Michael Bay or whatever other 'competitive entertainment dollars' are out there?
Me personally? Because I invested 600$+ from this game because I was promised a hardcore PvP title and I am not comfortable with GW running that title into the ground to appease the feelings of a carebear community that everyone's voice should be given equal consideration.
If GW wants to do that I'll be perfectly willing to let them without complaint if they'll refund me the full cost of all the accounts I currently own. Or hell, anyone in this community. If you buy my accounts at cost I'll leave. I'll use the money to help buy Amora a better machine and a copy of LiF and have a lot more fun than we would here.
Until then I'm going to stick around and advocate against policies and decisions the depreciate the value of my investment.
Not likely to happen because those accounts aren't worth what I paid for them anymore.
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Also Andius I'm looking for this manifesto of yours.
You are talking about this product as if it's a stock in a portfolio. You critique the game as an investor and not a consumer.
Have you considered, perhaps, that you, personally, are not the target audience to be pleased? Your biased opinion is going to radically differ from the normal player so shouldn't it have less weight?
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I'm entitled to get the product I paid for.
I'm entitled to be angry when I see the value of my investment depreciating instead of appreciating and people sitting around saying "you're on the right course!"
Unfortunately that is not how a Kickstarter works. The money you put into Kickstarter was not an 'investment' but pretty much a donation with the hopes of the game being finished and released. But was nowhere near a guaranteed product. There is no such that as 'entitled' for a Kickstarter project.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I wasn't even aware of how invested some people might be in speculating the price of future MMO accounts. I did read something about Star Citizen ships being resold for profit on Blues News the other day but I didn't think this type of activity would influence the development of a game like PFO.
Andius, please tell me where I can find this market. I am now thoroughly intrigued by 'Ponzifinder Online'.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Reddit. If I remember right the Idriss I purchased for 1000$ resold for like 2700$ or so which was split between me and the person who went half in on the Idriss with me. I could dig through my PayPal records to get the exact amount. I also sold a bomber and a couple super-hornets all for a decent mark up.
That's because people believe in that game. It's exciting, it's promising and they want to play it.
Accounts that will be worth well over 180$ in the first year not selling for the original value or even 100$ implies the opposite.
People can throw around as many opinions as they want but supply and demand is not an opinion. It's a FACT that there is now less demand for expensive PFO accounts with daily deal items and destiny's twins than there was during the 2nd kickstarter even though supply on those things is limited.
I had two of those accounts posted on the CotP boards for weeks with no bites. After I left I managed to sell two ones that came as a part of a guild package for 80$. The same price they were offered at on the CotP boards.
@Caldeathe. I see you deleted your post but I've PMed you the information on my accounts and the names of two middlemen I would find acceptable if you're serious.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Caldeathe. I see you deleted your post but I've PMed you the information on my accounts and the names of two middlemen I would find acceptable if you're serious.
My apologies, Andius. 1, it was rude, and 2, my wife would not be impressed if I spent another $500.00 on PFO.
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Goblin Squad Member
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We have probably had a dozen CotP members stay, a lot of people from CotP are waiting a few months until more is in the game.
Interesting. I don't suppose you would do us the favor of listing the name of their alpha characters so we can recognize them in game? And by staying you do mean they've purchased EE accounts yes?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't know if they have purchased EE accounts, personally, other than Emy.
If they want to list themselves they can, or you can ask for them in game.
That sounds about right. Emy was the only one who had shown much interest back when I was there.
I'll trust the other 11 or so unnamed phantoms are about as committed as the 201 TEO members who have all showed up in game and proven to be consistent players. ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't know if they have purchased EE accounts, personally, other than Emy.
If they want to list themselves they can, or you can ask for them in game.
That sounds about right. Emy was the only one who had shown much interest back when I was there.
I'll trust the other 11 or so unnamed phantoms are about as committed as the 201 TEO members who have all showed up in game and proven to be consistent players. ;)
Right now, who shows up is a rather moot point. This is the Alpha test, with missing and bugged features, with an impending character wipe. That isn't everyone's cup of tea, and that's totally ok. We'll see how many actually show up during EE, my guess is it won't be all of them, but a fair few will.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You have a secret anonymous informant with evidence that the 'big 3 ' are conspiring to brainwash us into never criticizing what GW does ? WOW! Now I understand your mission to show us the real truth. PFO sucks and we don't even know it, our happiness is all a lie.
And I'd like to add many of these people giving feedback wouldn't criticize GW no matter what they delivered..... and I actually got a PM from an ex-TSV yesterday completely disillusioned with this product and the crowdforging process informing me they won't be playing this game.
Oh and you might find this part of their PM interesting...
Ex TSV Member wrote:
Nihimon, Being & Jazz are perfect examples, they just adapt their opinions To the dev's...
I'll give you a hint:
It's easy to be right when the only voices that matter are the ones that agree with you.Are you talking to Ryan ? You're obviously talking to Ryan.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Andius, you are very articulate and a decent writer. You were a great proponent of this game in the early stages. Pretty much everything is going along as planned and as was described back then in concrete terms. The timelines on the things that you are wanting were never really promised but they are in the works.
Maybe you should take a break and LET THINGS HAPPEN. If you got into this as an investment, well that was probably not the way to look at an Indie MMO. Of course the value of the things that you kickstarted is not going to involve profitability until all the exciting things described are in play.
You could let things flow a bit here and not give up so quick. At least don't try to sink the ship before it gets a chance to sail. Give them the time that a small team with a small budget needs.
Be positively constructive in your critique instead of destructive. Change the way that you come across. Get back the great "thread cred" that you once had. For a person with such great writing skills, that should be easy.
Be the guy that built TEO. Build a new one.
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The new TEO is The Magistry and I will not attempt to surplant a leader as deserving as Athansor even if I believed I could.
I'm not trying to sink the game. Think of this thread as like in Mario Kart when you have the little guy floating infront of you with the "Wrong Way" sign. He's not trying to cause you to lose the race. He's trying to get you back on track.
The offer to let someone buy my accounts is mainly to illustrate a point but also serious. They are seriously overpriced if being sold at cost. I don't expect takers but if I get some they're paying more than they are worth so I'll sell.
I don't see games as an investment but I'd like people to stop about how much two accounts training at the speed of one would be worth in any semi-successful MMO.
How is it not scary to the fans of this game that something that sold over 3600 copies at 100$ over a year ago is now worth only 80$ with less than a month to release?
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Oh btw I actually sold the Idris for 3400$. So I got over three times what I paid for it.
That other games are capable of doing that while DTs seem to actually be falling price should be a huge red flag to anyone who really cares about this game at all.
It doesn't surprise me that you would be able to sell a collector's item for a 200% markup after sales end.
The target market right now for DT accounts is "People who want to play PFO EE but have not already purchased an account and are at least above standard in the amount of money they want to spend."
In order to find someone in that market, you basically have to market the game and sell it to a new customer. That's a challenge even for people who are skilled at making people believe that they want what they are selling. When you add the difficulty of overcoming the appearance of fraud that is presented when you try to sell an account that fell off of the back of a truck, it's probably literally impossible.
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Goblin Squad Member
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No such luck. I DO have 600$ invested in this game and I'll be keeping at least two of those accounts active until TEO/TSV cease to exist or this game shuts down. Whichever comes fist.This should be good news for GW. They will have a guaranteed $30/month from you for potentially a couple of decades or more.
Oh snap. This prediction should hold up unless they code siege equipment to be bonused from pouting or self-aggrandizement.
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So basically Decius, what you are saying is the availability of accounts purchased during the first Kickstarter which people have come to regret exceeds the number of new players who are seriously excited for this title but missed the first Kickstarter over a year ago.
That we've lost more serious players than we've gained in that time.
This isn't raising any red flags to you?
I swear you and Nihimon will be in the middle of defending every decision GW has ever made when the server shuts down for good.
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Goblin Squad Member
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How is it not scary to the fans of this game that something that sold over 3600 copies at 100$ over a year ago is now worth only 80$ with less than a month to release?
How is it scary? Andius do you have anything to sell me that I can't buy directly from Goblinworks or that I don't already have like Destiny's Twin (essentially another account) or Daily Deals (not even sure if those are limited or valuable)? Can you point to a specific link that shows where these things are being sold? Can I buy a settlement from someone? Do we know if more settlements will be added? If nobody wants my Alpha access for less than the going price of $1000 at the Goblinworks store does that mean I should panic? Please help this game lose value so I can buy low now. Show me where the Star Citizen ships are in this game. Please, I have a fistful of cash and Mama needs a new pair of shoes!
Lakitu has his head in the clouds. Welcome to Los Santos.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Andius - I'm really curious about your comments about graphics.
I've looked at this game and the graphics seem neither meaningfully better or worse than ours. What is it about Life is Feudal's graphics that has grabbed your attention?
You didn't ask me, but the only really strong negative for me in PFO graphics is that the humans (and elves to a lesser degree) are over-stylized for my taste; and inconsistent with the level of realism found in everything else with a real world analog.
I'm mainly talking about our heads. There have been improvements, but they still don't look like natural proportions of nose to zygomatic arch to jaw to cranium etc. It used to look like something quickly squished out from a pile of clay, and has gotten better since then, but it's still something I look past for the sake of other parts of the game (and hope for helmet art). I love the blinking though that helps a ton.
I'm not suggesting to go for photorealism because that never works, just basic proportionality that we're hardwired to recognize in human faces to appear on my screen.
Elves are imaginary, but for the game's purposes it wouldn't hurt for them to look a little more like "humans with funny ears" because their faces look a bit creepy to me too at the moment. (If long hair ever gets to sway, their ears should bob a little too)
Dwarves look exactly like I'd hope MMO dwarves to look, I hope you're that successful with gnomes right off the bat too. And the recent patch seems to have really improved all the weapon swinging etc. and that looks great. I still zoom in and watch the sun glint off my plate armor sometimes. This post isn't an indictment of the game art, just a notice of the last thing that bugs me since you expressed interest earlier in the thread (and trying to bring it back from yet-another-TEO-tantrum).
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@Takasi. I'm not talking about players who already have bought in buying more stuff. Pathfinder Online is a fairly small title at this point. Most people you talk to outside this community know little to nothing about it. Over the past year+ word of mouth from the players who bought in during the 2nd Kickstarter should have grown the community.
If it had grown by the rate it decreased players willing to pay 100$+ for day one access AND a set of unique items that will never be available again AND a free alt that doubles the XP they pay for should have gone up, not down.
Slow/consistent growth is not what you have when anticipation seems to has fallen over the past year.
It seems like less players feel it is a strong enough title to justify that investment than the number of players who have decided other titles are strong enough to justify selling those perks for a bit less than they paid for them. End result, supply is higher than demand, and prices fall even though no new DT accounts have entered the market or ever will again.
Part of the reason I paid such a high amount into both the SC and PFO Kickstarter is because with any successful game any item that is on the market for a short time and then stops being sold will increase greatly in value over time. A great example of this is the original holiday item in Runescape which were worth nothing when they made it into the game and would probably be worth hundreds or thousands of real life dollars now. I wasn't really buying to sell but buying because I knew it was worth my money. With SC this has proven universally true on every limited time item I bought. All of them saw a moderate to substantial price increase. With PFO they've all fallen in value.
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Andius - I'm really curious about your comments about graphics.
I've looked at this game and the graphics seem neither meaningfully better or worse than ours. What is it about Life is Feudal's graphics that has grabbed your attention?
Graphics are not just the still image viewing of a character model or the environment (which I know GW did purchase the Unity module for that).
Graphics is also the animation of those characters.
Even with 9.1, character motion is still jerky. They still run with a limp. Arrows still shoot in the air (from lower left to upper right of screen) and yet still hit the target at dead center of screen.
Yes there have been improvements, but they seem to have introduced some lag.
As Andius rightly stated somewhere, GW producing PFO on a shoe string budget is not a selling point. It makes no difference to the player or potential player what it costed you to make the game. Our cost is the same, regardless of yours. The game's quality is not divorced from your costs.
You can not expect people to pay the monthly fee for a Mercedes Benz, hand them a Yugo, and promise them it will eventually be a Chevy.
Game players are smarter than that with spending their monthly fee, especially when they have already looked at the Yugo and seen or driven the Mercedes and the Chevy.
Your MVP has got to be the Chevy!
The other misstep that GW is making (I believe Ryan more specifically) is his avoidance of calling EE what it is BETA. If he did that, the outside observer who is reluctant to even try the free alpha will be more forgiving. Instead what the message being put out is, this game is launching in 2 1/2 weeks, and prospective players are saying "WTF is it 2000" when they look at the game in action.
Here is a Chevy (Fallen Earth)
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My only complaint with the forum is the lack of an "ignore" button.
Been using this for a couple of months now, works like a clock: custom-made ignore function for the Paizo forums
You will need Mozilla though, and since I like to use Chrome, I just made a special link on my desktop to the Paizo forums, that starts up Mozzilla for this.
Only got one person on ignore btw and it's not any of the "wolves".
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I feel like the selling point of MVP is if you believe this game will become a big enough deal that the extra time to advance your character is worth the time and money.
I feel like the biggest mistake Goblinworks is making is in believing a half baked MMO is MVP.
I realize it's too late to go back and do this now but they should have gone the route of Star Citizen or Life is Feudal and released something smaller first then build toward an MMO.
Their "Pit Fighter" program that they canceled probably should have been their feature product for the first year or two. Focus on creating a really great combat system and giving various PvE and PvP arenas to test it in. Implement all the core classes and races, real character customization. Once you have a really great combat system with all the core classes then you build and launch an MMO with territorial control, feuds, and siege warfare all in place.
That's where LiF has pulled so far ahead of PFO. They kept their ambitions reasonable and it allowed them to deliver a product that didn't feel soulless and is actually fun to play. Plus you wouldn't have the issue of players who want to play monks and druids having to save most of their XP or end up severely behind. That's always rubbed me very wrong.
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Goblin Squad Member
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LIF looks decent. I do prefer the "learn skills by doing them" system over the "gain XP over time" systeme, by far. Even though I'm a very casual player (4-6 hrs game time a week total), which the xp over time system's claim to target. The physics based targeted system doesn't appeal to me, but I'd have to try it before judging.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The thing I've come to appreciate about their training system I didn't originally realize is the grind time is incredibly low. I know someone who maxed a combat character who did general grunt labor with his crafting skills in both skills and stats in a week. He plays constantly but that puts realistic grind time with a month which is nice because grinding isn't the content. Territorial warfare is.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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How are you entitled to a refund?
Well, you know, everyone isn't from the USA, and in Europ, consumers ARE protected. We have such a thing called "abusive clause", which basically gives 0 value to most of the video games contracts.
And concerning PFO, I could lawfully get a refound for my EE access and anything outside my alpha access and the KS. basically, I can ask for a refund for everything that's not delivered.
I don't have time and energy to lose doing that to get back 150 bucks, but I could.
It seems obvious to me now that running kickstarters where you allow people to pledge far in excess of $100 is a very risky proposition, double-edged sword as it were.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I just read up on it, and LiF has some interesting features.
You can run your own servers, with their own server rules and password protected. Limited character population of 64, but you could control that by having 5 companies / settlements of 12 and 4 overseers (MODS).
Unfortunately there are no guild features in LiF:YO ("Your Own").
The MMO Servers have a capacity of 10,000+ and follow preset Developer rules. These servers are not available yet.
In both cases, you can not elect to turn off PVP, and in both cases PVP is Open World FFA Full Loot. No Class, Skill or Level Caps.
Maybe, just maybe... multiple servers, both private and public, might be the way to go.