I have gone through and scoured the posts for the combat. The damage the ettin has taken to this point is indeed 31 points as Brett has pointed out. It took me exactly 29 minutes to figure that out. You can find the document detailing the posts where the damage is listed above under the link "Ettin Damage."
Life is just too stressful these days, and something has to give. It's going to be this game, just after this combat is over. My business is failing, as a result, my finances are an ongoing disaster, I'm on the verge of bankruptcy and losing my house, and my marriage is suffering.
On top of that, my job in the Adventurers League has become getting shouted at for honestly and gently answering questions whose answers are obvious but unpopular, being forced to fire people who work for me because they defame people in other organized play campaigns publicly, apologizing for ginormous snafus that I have no role in creating, fielding disruptive players' demands that I discipline DMs, organizers, and store owners despite the fact that my position has no policing authority, and generally being told 20 times a day that I'm disappointing people, despite the fact that my supervisor constantly tells me I'm one of his best regional coordinators and he's very happy with my work.
Running this game was intended to be a fun activity, but it's extremely complicated and time-consuming and an ongoing source of stress for me at a time when I really have more stress than I can already handle.
The reality is I'm going to have to go back to work for a firm somewhere to pull this situation out of the fire. Closing up my firm and working full time in a legal puppy mill and commuting back and forth isn't going to leave me time for much else. We may as well end shortly this after this combat, which will be a good stopping point, rather than end abruptly, mid-encounter, which would likely have to happen otherwise.
Okay dokey!
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Art: I completely understand the pressure and how a fun endeavor can become a source of stress in times like these. You recall my Exiles of Zakhara game. Just remember that stoppages like this happen all the time.
So, de-stress and make some money and bring things back in balance. Pathfinder will be here when you are ready, as will your players and friends.
Hang in there. Tell me if the there's anything I can do.
-Derek
Thanks, everyone!
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Staggered
A staggered creature may take a single move action or standard action each round (but not both, nor can he take full-round actions). A staggered creature can still take free, swift, and immediate actions. A creature with nonlethal damage exactly equal to its current hit points gains the staggered condition.
Disabled
A character with 0 hit points, or one who has negative hit points but has become stable and conscious, is disabled. A disabled character may take a single move action or standard action each round (but not both, nor can he take full-round actions, but he can still take swift, immediate, and free actions). He moves at half speed. Taking move actions doesn't risk further injury, but performing any standard action (or any other action the GM deems strenuous, including some free actions such as casting a Quicken Spell spell) deals 1 point of damage after the completion of the act. Unless the action increased the disabled character's hit points, he is now in negative hit points and dying.
This why I got confused?
Staggered
A staggered creature may take a single move action or standard action each round (but not both, nor can he take full-round actions). A staggered creature can still take free, swift, and immediate actions. A creature with nonlethal damage exactly equal to its current hit points gains the staggered condition.
This why I got confused?Disabled
A character with 0 hit points, or one who has negative hit points but has become stable and conscious, is disabled. A disabled character may take a single move action or standard action each round (but not both, nor can he take full-round actions, but he can still take swift, immediate, and free actions). He moves at half speed. Taking move actions doesn't risk further injury, but performing any standard action (or any other action the GM deems strenuous, including some free actions such as casting a Quicken Spell spell) deals 1 point of damage after the completion of the act. Unless the action increased the disabled character's hit points, he is now in negative hit points and dying.
I'm so sorry, Dan. I'm used to 3.5 where staggered=disabled. I've been saying it that way for more than 10 years and didn't realize that Pathfinder differentiated between the two with two different terms, even though I've been judging it for several years now. You are quite right, I should have said that the goblin dog (who is now dying) was disabled and that Brethon, who was just hit, is now disabled.
Cool... It's one of those small changes... That get's overlooked... I only looked at the condition due to the dog being on the battle map, as I thought the same as you...
I've actually been playing and DMing some 5e lately, and my initial draft of the post had the dog dying. I even deleted him from the map. Then I remembered that foes don't die at 0 in Pathfinder as they do in 5e!
Huh, +13 is a very large damage bonus for the ettin. Even with (one-handed) power attack.
It's been +13 the whole time. 2-H use of a weapon, power attacking with a BAB of +7, STR 21:
1d6 + 7 (Str x 1.5) + 6 (power attacking 2-H for 2 pts)
Oh, if it's two-handing that would explain it hitting like a truck for sure. And I realize it's been hitting for +13 damage consistently. It just wasn't hitting me before, so I wasn't thinking about it.
Anyways, you can warn a barbarian with an intelligence of 8 all you want, but it probably isn't going to change their actions very much :)
:)
Art: sorry for getting the range increment all screwed up.
Gotta admit for a bunch of low level characters this was pretty epic
I've been a good boy and haven't done the CR calculations (hint: very high), but epic would be a fitting word.
Now that the fight is over I *am* curious to see the ettin stats. The water club thing is from an item in People of the Rivers, I think. Neat effect; it felt like he was wielding a light saber (water saber?). He must of had some other stuff going on, though, he seemed too beefy to be "just" a young ettin.
She was a young ettin with one level of medium (which really did very little for her in combat), CR 5 according to Hero Lab. I even took two-weapon fighting away from her by not giving her a second melee weapon. Her extra feat was waterway caster, which did nothing for her, as she was not able to cast spells yet (and you weren't near the water in this combat).
Her magic items and loot were all show - masterwork armor, the ring creating a watery club, a minor bag of holding full of water so she could summon the club, and a tengu drinking jug.
I did maximize her HP and those of all of the goblins (in this encounter), goblin adepts, goblin dogs, and goblin outriders so they would last longer. That did mean she had 108 hp rather than 73.
The way things went, you triggered 3 encounters at once by ambushing the raiding party. You slaughtered her lieutenants (the werebats) early in what I planned as an RP encounter, but which I knew could go south.
The next planned step was a raid on the caravan by part of the goblins (two goblins, one adept, and one outrider), backed with a second, identical wave if you defeated the first too handily. Then later would have come a raid by the werebats aimed at stealing and maybe taking out one or two members of the party, and eventually an attack by the ettin (either you tracking the goblins back to their lair or the ettin seeking you out for payback for killing the werebats).
Your group had 6 characters (Rafaelis, Denge, Professor Bellerophon, Bear'f and Albern, plus two henchman - Brethon, a 4th level sorcerer, and the Forgotten One, a CR 2 creature - the rough equivalent of a 3rd level character). So your total levels were 12, divided by 7, or 1.7, plus 1 for 6 or more characters, and rounded up to 3. (See [url]http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering#Step-1-Determine-APL[/url].) A CR 5 foe vs. a CR 3 party is actually a very reasonable challenge. You just arranged things to also get 4 CR 1/3 goblins, 4 CR 1/2 goblin dogs, two CR 1/3 adepts, and 2 CR 1 outriders along with her. The terrain advantage helped some, at least initially. Later I think it was as much a hindrance as it was a help.
I thought it odd that more of you didn't ready actions initially, though I don't think that would've made a very big difference. Also, the Forgotten One would've moved around the field until it had cast blur on all of you, but it was asked to do something else instead.
All in all, I though you did a great job against such a difficult combat. Although several PCs went down several times, only Penelope was taken out by the goblin forces. It took Jebline to hurt the rest of you, and it was a crit that caused a death.
I'm curious what the combined CR calculation for a group that large is. I have to admit, I have little recent experience doing CR calculations. I look forward to seeing what the combined CR was. I imagine 7, due to numbers.
I have some ideas on how we might continue. I'll post the treasure tomorrow, and we can RP the wrap up of the caravan journey, which is very nearly over. That will give us time to discuss proposals and decide what to do.
Unfortunately, Bear'f is an outsider and cannot be brought back to life, which means Dan will need a new character to continue. Dan, if you wish, you can run Brethon in the interim, as there is no one else to run into in the short bit left on the road to Belhaim.
Unfortunately, Bear'f is an outsider and cannot be brought back to life, which means Dan will need a new character to continue. Dan, if you wish, you can run Brethon in the interim, as there is no one else to run into in the short bit left on the road to Belhaim.
A Sylph has a native subtype. Gotta have an out for them folks wanting to play blue skinned alien types.
...but it does kind of seem silly for a first level fresh character to get raised.
Oh, well, then. Plan B is still in effect. Don't do too much planning, Dan. I didn't see that when I went to review the spells.
CR calculation:
Due to the low levels of the critters, the CRB 12-3 table doesn't really work, so I'll just gow with raw XP addition:
4 CR 1/3 goblins -> 540
4 CR 1/2 young goblin dogs -> 800
2 CR 1/3 adepts -> 270
2 CR 1 outriders -> 800
CR 5 ettin -> 1600
Sum to get 4010 - CR 7.5
On the ettin:
Given it's modifiers and what you've mentioned, it was a base ettin with the following modifications:
young template Size decrease by one category; AC reduce natural armor by –2; Attacks decrease damage dice by 1 step; Ability Scores –4 Strength, –4 Con, +4 size bonus to Dex.
monster with class levels (guesswork)+4 con and int, +2 dex and str, -2 wis (int could have been a cha adjustment instead, but it seemed like a pretty smart ettin)
It also picked up a feat due to the level bump - I'm guessing toughness.
This would lead to the following stats:
Str 21, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 10 (or 6), Wis 8, Cha 11 (or 15)
Now, the odd thing was it had a super high level of hp, 100+. It should have had 11*4.5 (hd) + 11*2 (con) + 1*11 (toughness) = 82 (or maybe 85 if it had a Con spirit). If I had to take a guess, herolab failed to apply the young template -4 con penalty - without it, it would end up with104 hp.
I'd be curious to see what spirit was riding him - Teamster seems fitting and would fit the profile
Also, I think the number of sneak attack dice on the halfling's crit accidently got doubled. Added dice from effects (sneak, energy weapons, etc.) don't get modified (either that, or one of them is level 11).
No, I doubled them. It should have been a few points less of damage. The ettin may have lived, but still would have been out. It would have been 15 points less damage. 16 hp would have taken it down, but would not have killed it outright.
The ettin had the Rakshasa spirit, whichever that one is.
The feat was waterways caster, which had no impact on it, as it could not yet cast spells.
I gave it full XP for its hit dice so it would last long enough to be a challenge for you. I did that to all the foes in this particular combat and often do it at Pathfinder tables.
The stats were
Any error in the template came from Hero Lab. I just took an ettin, added the template, then added a level of medium.
I used the monster levels array in Hero Lab (I'm pretty sure that was the default, but it's been so long since I built her, I'm not sure). Her stats were Str 21, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 6, Wis 8, Cha 15.
The HP were 108. I maxed the racial HP (10*8=88), took the average + 1 for the medium level (5), added 1 for favored class medium, and added the con modifier (11*2=22).
On a personal note, this kind of second guessing is exactly what I dislike the most about DMing. These kind of analyses kill my will to DM. I feel like I'm being graded and found wanting. In this case, I'm engaging, because I know you held yourself back and I appreciate it and am glad to help satisfy your curiosity.
In an ongoing online game like this, it's easy to find and document errors and spend hours discussing them, which makes them even more distasteful to me. At a normal game store or convention game, I get to walk away before it becomes too much for me.
I'll put forth my proposals going forward, probably on Sunday. I ran out of time today. But one proposal is that I'm never going to read the discussion thread again, so you guys can hash stuff like this out if you care, but so I can be spared it entirely so it doesn't affect my willingness to DM.
That'll mean you'll have to post notes about absences in the gameplay thread as out of character messages. Otherwise, I won't see them.
I'll propose a mechanic for it with the proposal for going forward on Sunday. It will also propose rules for dealing with errors and table talk.
Right, you said that about the feat earlier. *whistles* Well, that's officially hard mode right there :). Baby ettin has more hp then the party combined. Always fun when things get properly epic.
The Rakshasa spirit is not a combat one, but some of the other spirits could have been nasty. It sounds like you weren't seancing anyways, so a bit irrelevant. Let the loa ride baby!
I typically don't engage in this level of speculation... but, it's hard to resist a little post game analysis after all of that wackiness. It's an interesting foe, and my reconstruction is more a form of praise than criticism. It sounds like you had a fairly coherent backstory worked up for Jebline, too, or at least strongly consistent thematic elements.
I tried to give her a power that would explain why she had gathered the goblins and werebats and to scare you a little with unknown powers without making her any more powerful. And to set her up as a recurring villain if she lived to tell the tale.
I don't mind it after the fact so much, I just don't really enjoy it, either. During the game it drives me nuts, which is why I'm going to suggest we keep the Discussion tab for you to talk among yourselves about the game out of character and even talk tactics and keep the Gameplay tab for the game and discussions with me. That way you can engage in it all you want, and if you find an error, you can discuss it and bring it to me in the Gameplay tab once you've figured out precisely where it occurred. I'll lay it all out on Sunday, though.
Meh, if that sort of tabletalk is bothersome, consider my lips sealed.