I don't mind it after the fact so much, I just don't really enjoy it, either. During the game it drives me nuts, which is why I'm going to suggest we keep the Discussion tab for you to talk among yourselves about the game out of character and even talk tactics and keep the Gameplay tab for the game and discussions with me. That way you can engage in it all you want, and if you find an error, you can discuss it and bring it to me in the Gameplay tab once you've figured out precisely where it occurred. I'll lay it all out on Sunday, though.
I tried to give her a power that would explain why she had gathered the goblins and werebats and to scare you a little with unknown powers without making her any more powerful. And to set her up as a recurring villain if she lived to tell the tale.
On a personal note, this kind of second guessing is exactly what I dislike the most about DMing. These kind of analyses kill my will to DM. I feel like I'm being graded and found wanting. In this case, I'm engaging, because I know you held yourself back and I appreciate it and am glad to help satisfy your curiosity.
In an ongoing online game like this, it's easy to find and document errors and spend hours discussing them, which makes them even more distasteful to me. At a normal game store or convention game, I get to walk away before it becomes too much for me.
I'll put forth my proposals going forward, probably on Sunday. I ran out of time today. But one proposal is that I'm never going to read the discussion thread again, so you guys can hash stuff like this out if you care, but so I can be spared it entirely so it doesn't affect my willingness to DM.
That'll mean you'll have to post notes about absences in the gameplay thread as out of character messages. Otherwise, I won't see them.
I'll propose a mechanic for it with the proposal for going forward on Sunday. It will also propose rules for dealing with errors and table talk.
The HP were 108. I maxed the racial HP (10*8=88), took the average + 1 for the medium level (5), added 1 for favored class medium, and added the con modifier (11*2=22).
No, I doubled them. It should have been a few points less of damage. The ettin may have lived, but still would have been out. It would have been 15 points less damage. 16 hp would have taken it down, but would not have killed it outright.
The ettin had the Rakshasa spirit, whichever that one is.
The feat was waterways caster, which had no impact on it, as it could not yet cast spells.
I gave it full XP for its hit dice so it would last long enough to be a challenge for you. I did that to all the foes in this particular combat and often do it at Pathfinder tables.
The stats were
Any error in the template came from Hero Lab. I just took an ettin, added the template, then added a level of medium.
I used the monster levels array in Hero Lab (I'm pretty sure that was the default, but it's been so long since I built her, I'm not sure). Her stats were Str 21, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 6, Wis 8, Cha 15.
On the Four Goblins
Eight small, rusty dogslicers
Four small sets of leather armor
Four flasks of alchemist’s fire
Four tanglefoot bags
Four shortbows
Seventy-two small arrows
On the Four Goblin Dogs
Nothing
On the Two Goblin Adepts
Two spell component pouches
Two silver unholy symbols of Lamashtu
Two small silvered daggers
Two small sets of masterwork leather armor
Two wands of cure light wounds (already collected, had 10 and 9 charges remaining when collected, some used by the PCs since then)
18gp
On the Two Goblin Outriders
Two small masterwork dogslicers
Two shortbows
Thirty-seven small arrows
Two small sets of masterwork studded leather armor
Two small darkwood heavy wooden shields
Two potions of bull’s strength
Four potions of cure light wounds
Eight flasks of alchemist’s fire (minus one or two used in combat, I’ll have to check)
Four tanglefoot bags (minus one used in combat, I’ll have to check)
On the Forgotten One
One diminutive shortspear
There may be more loot in the cave, on Bear'f, and in the Forgotten One's home....
I have some ideas on how we might continue. I'll post the treasure tomorrow, and we can RP the wrap up of the caravan journey, which is very nearly over. That will give us time to discuss proposals and decide what to do.
Unfortunately, Bear'f is an outsider and cannot be brought back to life, which means Dan will need a new character to continue. Dan, if you wish, you can run Brethon in the interim, as there is no one else to run into in the short bit left on the road to Belhaim.
She was a young ettin with one level of medium (which really did very little for her in combat), CR 5 according to Hero Lab. I even took two-weapon fighting away from her by not giving her a second melee weapon. Her extra feat was waterway caster, which did nothing for her, as she was not able to cast spells yet (and you weren't near the water in this combat).
Her magic items and loot were all show - masterwork armor, the ring creating a watery club, a minor bag of holding full of water so she could summon the club, and a tengu drinking jug.
I did maximize her HP and those of all of the goblins (in this encounter), goblin adepts, goblin dogs, and goblin outriders so they would last longer. That did mean she had 108 hp rather than 73.
The way things went, you triggered 3 encounters at once by ambushing the raiding party. You slaughtered her lieutenants (the werebats) early in what I planned as an RP encounter, but which I knew could go south.
The next planned step was a raid on the caravan by part of the goblins (two goblins, one adept, and one outrider), backed with a second, identical wave if you defeated the first too handily. Then later would have come a raid by the werebats aimed at stealing and maybe taking out one or two members of the party, and eventually an attack by the ettin (either you tracking the goblins back to their lair or the ettin seeking you out for payback for killing the werebats).
Your group had 6 characters (Rafaelis, Denge, Professor Bellerophon, Bear'f and Albern, plus two henchman - Brethon, a 4th level sorcerer, and the Forgotten One, a CR 2 creature - the rough equivalent of a 3rd level character). So your total levels were 12, divided by 7, or 1.7, plus 1 for 6 or more characters, and rounded up to 3. (See [url]http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering#Step-1-Determine-APL[/url].) A CR 5 foe vs. a CR 3 party is actually a very reasonable challenge. You just arranged things to also get 4 CR 1/3 goblins, 4 CR 1/2 goblin dogs, two CR 1/3 adepts, and 2 CR 1 outriders along with her. The terrain advantage helped some, at least initially. Later I think it was as much a hindrance as it was a help.
I thought it odd that more of you didn't ready actions initially, though I don't think that would've made a very big difference. Also, the Forgotten One would've moved around the field until it had cast blur on all of you, but it was asked to do something else instead.
All in all, I though you did a great job against such a difficult combat. Although several PCs went down several times, only Penelope was taken out by the goblin forces. It took Jebline to hurt the rest of you, and it was a crit that caused a death.
I'm curious what the combined CR calculation for a group that large is. I have to admit, I have little recent experience doing CR calculations. I look forward to seeing what the combined CR was. I imagine 7, due to numbers.
I don't know what happened. I hit submit, then the window took me to the Paizo main page and I was signed out. I had to sign back in. It's a long post, so I'll redo it tomorrow. You hit the three loot-heavy combats in one.
Professor Bellerephon and Denge, with the help of Tark (who appears after a few minutes, but is initially invisible) and Bray, are able to carry Brethon, Rafaelis, Albern, and the dogs a safe distance away from the goblins and goblin dogs in order to heal them without healing any fallen foes.
Suddenly, Bray Burrowfoot appears standing among the dogs and goblin and goblin dog corpses. A bolt flies from his hand crossbow and sinks into the left eye of the ettin's left head, which has turned toward the disturbance.
As silently as it was sudden, the ettin falls over, landing amongst the brush with a loud thud. All is still.
There is a brilliant flash of light. Geb and Nex appear in the air above the Boulder. They are each curled curiously, as if they were being carried...
More Secret DM Rolls, Do Not Peek:
Tark Toughtoe's Acrobatics Check DC 15:1d20 + 10 ⇒ (4) + 10 = 14 Tark Toughtoe's Acrobatics Check DC 15:1d20 + 10 ⇒ (3) + 10 = 13
...They land in a great heap at the base of the Boulder.
Still More Secret DM Rolls, No Peeking:
Falling Damage for Tark:2d6 ⇒ (2, 6) = 8 Falling Damage for Bray:2d6 ⇒ (5, 1) = 6 Falling Damage for Geb:2d6 ⇒ (6, 4) = 10 Falling Damage for Nex:2d6 ⇒ (4, 6) = 10
Unfortunately, Geb and Nex are badly injured in the fall and lie slumped on the leaf litter, adding their blood to the huge pool left by the goblins, goblin dogs, and party members before them.
In the Verduran Forest, Taldor; In combat with an ettin - Oathday, 2 Gozran, 4715 A.R.
Round Eighteen
Initiative Order
Tark Toughtoe
Bray Burrowfoot
Gab and Nex
Albern (down 12 hp, fatigued and prone)
Professor Bellerophon
Ettin (down 95 hp, bloodied, entangled, taking bleed 1 damage this round and for two more rounds thereafter)
Rafaelis (down 15 hp, at -7 hp, stable, unconscious, prone)
Brethon (down 37 hp, at -7, unconscious, dying, prone)
Denge (down 8 hp)
Albern is next, followed by Professor Bellerophon.
Rafaelis is technically out of the initiative now, as he is stable. I've included him here just to track his condition for later healing.
Bray Burrowfoot's Perception Check to See the Dancing Lights that were in the sky for 1 round, DC 10 (base) + 5 (circumstance, brief duration):1d20 + 9 ⇒ (8) + 9 = 17
Bray Burrowfoot's Handle Animal Check to get Geb and Nex to heel or come or follow, whichever they are trained to do, DC 10:1d20 + 13 ⇒ (2) + 13 = 15
Tark Toughtoe's Use Magic Device Check to activate a scroll, DC 29:1d20 + 13 ⇒ (18) + 13 = 31
Command is Close Range 25'+5'/each 2 levels, so... that would a 30ft radius. NEvertheless, Prof Bell isn't even in THAT range. And he took 30ft of movement to get down at an accelerated rate, so... new action:
Isn't the Professor 1st level? The bonus range doesn't kick in until 2nd level. Either way...
Professor Bellerophon shoots his crossbow, barely able to keep it straight for the sheer terror shaking his hands.
You could use your reroll here....Otherwise, we'll go on to Denge.
Brett, I need a DC 17 Con check to see whether Rafaelis stabilizes. Jake, I'm still waiting for the DC 13 check for Albern. (I'm not rushing you, so much as reminding myself. Roll it when you can.)
Brethon's DC 16 Con Check to stabilize:1d20 + 3 ⇒ (17) + 3 = 20
Brethon's life is draining into the duff.
Professor Bellerophon immediately follows Denge's example. Scrambling down the rope at top speed.
At the base of the boulder, he notices that Albern is close. Very close. Too close. To the ettin. Icy fear claws at his veins. Too close.
Instead of moving towards Albern, he looks at the ettin and says, "FLEE!"
Jebline's Will Save:1d20 + 6 ⇒ (19) + 6 = 25
The ettin's left head chuckles as the right one says "Oh, no. No, I won't be fleeing this combat. No one will."
Derek, to cast that spell, you need to be within 25' of the ettin. She was 35' away (just south of Brethon's body). You actually either need to move further to cast that spell or, only if you have no movement left, pick another action.
"Go ahead. Heal your friend. I'll take care of this one," she says, advancing on Rafaelis.
20% Miss Chance for Blur, Low is a Miss:1d100 ⇒ 46 Jebelin's River Club Attack:1d20 + 13 - 2 - 2 ⇒ (5) + 13 - 2 - 2 = 14 (power attacking, entangled) Damage:1d6 + 13 ⇒ (2) + 13 = 15
There is a sickening crunch in the bushes as Rafaelis falls to the ettin's blow.
In the Verduran Forest, Taldor; In combat with an ettin - Oathday, 2 Gozran, 4715 A.R.
Round Seventeen
Initiative Order
Albern (down 19 hp, at -3, fatigued, unconscious, dying, prone)
Professor Bellerophon
Ettin (down 94 hp, bloodied, entangled, taking bleed 1 damage this round and for three more rounds thereafter)
Rafaelis (blurred)
Brethon (down 36 hp, at -6, unconscious, dying, prone)
Denge (down 8 hp)
Albern is next, followed by Professor Bellerophon and Bear'f.
The initiative order has changed due to a delayed action and a readied action last round.
I forgot to take entangled into account last round. The -2 penalty to attacks would not have affected any of Jebline's hits. However, it did affect her movement, reducing her speed from 40 to 20, meaning she cannot be right up on Rafaelis. I have moved her (and Brethon, who ran up to her) accordingly. Unfortunately, the reduced speed did not impede her ability to reach Bear'f and Albern, who were within 20' of her last round.
Albern is next and must make a DC 13 Con check to see whether he stabilizes. Professor Bellerophon is next and may proceed rather than wait for Albern's check.
To those who would say that Brethon could have attacked after moving and avoided the AoO, which he could have avoided anyway, but provoked on purpose to save Rafaelis, I offer the following hypothetical die roll: Brethon's Club Attack:1d20 + 7 ⇒ (4) + 7 = 11Damage:1d6 + 7 ⇒ (2) + 7 = 9 The attack would have missed and, even if it had not, would not have brought down the ettin. Brethon's action stands, just 20' closer to where Bear'f and Albern were attacked.
The lights descend. Their glow reveals a gruesome sight.
Who Took the Crit, 1-3=Bear'f, 4-6=Albern:1d6 ⇒ 2
Bear'f's pale, thin form is stretched on the wet leaves of the ravine, blood pooling beneath it and seeping into the duff. His chest is caved in from the might blow struck by the ettin. It is not moving. He draws no breath.
Albern, too, is stretched out upon the leaf litter. He is bloody and his shoulder shattered, but he still draws breath. He clings to life.
Rafaelis throws a flask of alchemist's fire toward the ettin from deep within the foliage in the ravine.
Miss Direction:1d8 ⇒ 1
The flask falls short, impacting only about 15' from Rafaelis. Its contents splash harmlessly on the the rocks, wet leaves, and brush in the ravine.
The range for alchemist's fire is 10', and the ettin is 40' from Rafaelis, putting it 4 range increments from Rafaelis and imposing a -6 range penalty. I should also roll a miss chance for concealment, but since the range penalty makes the attack miss, it is moot.
The ettin turn toward Rafaelis and advances on him, pushing through the brush until she is toe-to-toe with his blurry form.
The ettin double moves up to Rafaelis.
Berthon cries out, "Nooooo!!!" and takes a great, running leap off of the Boulder.
In his terror, he lands safely from a jump that should have broken his ankle! He races across the bottom of the ravine and pushes through the brush toward Rafaelis, until he is even with the ettin.
The ettin swings her watery club at him as he advances on her!
Cover... lol.. That's why I was close... I understand too close for an archer... The -4 for lack of Precise Shot and a further -4 for cover was why I wasn't attacking the Ettin to begin with... Either way those crits would kill any of us... I also moved in closer for when the combat was happening on top of the rocky outcroping... I was using the range finder on the d20pfsrd to calculate the distances and LoS... I needed to move closer for that...
At least Bear'f saw this coming :-p
The only thing Bear'f has up his sleeve is his breeze kissed ability... It's a swift to activate (which it was) but then doesn't state the action type after to change this effect to a Trip or Bull Rush attempt to a creature within 30ft...
I would say that that the breeze-kissed trip or bull rush attack is a standard action. It's something that could be used as a readied action, if you wanted to try to prevent an attack like this, though.
Seeing this I just had to laugh out loud, at work no less. If this doesn't make my character run screaming into the night nothing will. You still need to confirm on the critical btw. There is little chance that you won't confirm but still...
What I don't understand is why those two were so close to the ettin in the first place? Bear'f shoots arrows for god's sake. Arrows! One usually thinks of attacking at range when using a bow. Argh! I will post when I get home.
I did forget the confirm initially, but I actually rolled it in the post just above yours. I was hoping for a 1.
Albern struck at the ettin just before the darkness fell! He tore into her with his bardiche. She looks like one more very solid hit will do her in!
I completely forgot the AoO and the reach weapon. The AoO does indeed hit, in fact, there is no miss chance, as the darkness hit after the movement. The ettin now has 12 hp remaining...
Albern Fee wrote:
I choose to take the crit.
That's very noble of you, but the fates will decide.
I don't think that the ettin can move that far and attack twice, unless it has a pounce-like ability or cleave. It started more then 10' away from us and doesn't seem to have reach.
That's true. Unfortunately, she used cleave, which is a standard action. I noted it in the the green text on her die rolls.
However, I did fail to roll a confirmation on the crit! Too much 5e lately, sorry about that. Here's the crit confirmation roll...
One of the two is dead, the other is unconscious. Since no one can see the result, we'll leave it a Schroedinger's cat situation for the moment.
Rafaelis is next, as he went into delay and Brett said he would come out after the ettin's turn. Denge is after that. Brethon's place in the initiative order has changed, because he readied an action.
Rafaelis will cast about to see if any of the goblins that died near the spot he's located had alchemical bandoliers.
None do.
Rafaelis Reeves wrote:
He will then check too see if Brethon is poised to put the quarrel back into his backpack should some predetermined event trigger such a response. If that is the case he will delay until after the ettin.
I'm not sure how you would be able to tell that normally. However, I'll allow a Sense Motive check.
Rafaelis Reeves wrote:
Art, I can't see Bear'f pog btw.
Me, either. Dan, what happened? Should I add it back?
I adjusted the Professor's position on the map to reflect him moving up next to Brethon in the darkness. I also adjusted Rafelis', who had withdrawn directly east before the darkness hit, but who went a bit too far for a 30' movement rate, given that the areas of foliage are difficult terrain.
Sorry, Brett and I posted at the same time yesterday. I'd been waiting for my RSS Feeder to let me know someone had posted after me. However, he and I posted at nearly the same time. His post must've appeared as I posted my previous one. When I went to check just now, I see you've all been waiting on me.
Rafaelis' lights appear high in the sky above you. Their light is clear, and illuminates the tops of some of the taller trees. However, it fails to pierce the deep shadows of the ravine. To all except Bear'f, the ravine remains pitch black.
The ettin stumbles forward toward the gnome who just struck her.
50% Miss Chance, Low is a Miss:1d100 ⇒ 36
Although she swipes at Albern, she misses him.
Albern is directly next to the ettin now, who stumbled up to him to be able to attack.
Brethon removes the lighted arrow from his backpack, restoring the light.
”Albern, Nicely done… Are you sure you’re not an elf I’ve too much in the way for Jebline… I’m clearing a path!?” Bear’f studies the lone Goblin dog and then fires an arrow and moves swiftly…
Bear'f sees, and everyone else hears, Bear'f's arrow strike the goblin squarely in the chest. It drops.
No, I don't think I was within 15' feet, but I think I was within within 25' feet (15' move + 10' reach for the polearm). Sorry for any confusion. Happy Friday!
It's no problem. Being essentially blind in game is confusing. Either way, the crit remains.
Polearm in hand, the gnome stumbles around in the dark, using sound to try and locate the giant.
Albern easily locates the ettin. He just saw her a moment ago, and she's not being quiet.
Albern Fee wrote:
I have zero visibility in Roll d20 right now (black map)...
On purpose, you can't see right now.
Albern Fee wrote:
If I can get close enough, then...
Albern slowly approaches the ettin. Despite the fact that he can't see, his bardiche strikes true! Both of the ettin's heads howl in pain.
To be honest, I don't remember where you were before you moved yourself. I'm going to assume you were within 15' of the ettin, though that's probably not actually the case. Everyone, please remember that you can only move half speed when you cannot see. Remember also that Bear'f can see, so he can tell you which way to go.
Professor Taldus Bellerophon wrote:
When the light vanishes beneath Brethon's foot, Professor Bellerophon is left with nothing but the rough hemp rope between his fingers, the stone beneath his feet and the stench of his terrified bowels.
FYI, a crossbow bolt is too large to cover with a foot. Brethon picked up the bolt and stuck it in his backpack.
Brethon's upright and alive, though. Pharasma's power was enough to bring him back from the Paths of the Dead. He'll be barely able to stand, I imagine.
Professor Taldus Bellerophon wrote:
When Taldus is at the top of the rope, standing atop the boulder, he will call out to Brethon, "Where are you, Brethon!?" He walks towards the sound of Brethon's voice, drawing the adept's wand of healing as he goes. When he feels the wand touch Brethon, he concentrates and summons forth its magic.
The healing from the wand is different from the succor Pharasma's blue light spreads. A cold, cloying wetness envelops both Professor Bellerophon and Brethon. However, the effect is the same, as Brethon is healed.
