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I don't care.
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I don't care.
"Well to explain more fully, I don't care about you, your struggles, or you quest to overthrow the 'evil tyrants' as you call them. That said, I do care about X, something very unimportant to you. Still I might as well help you out as it is on my way."
My level 15 wizard's rationale for helping the party overthrow a group powerful evil people that the party accidentally unleashed before being trapped in a sort of stasis bubble for 20 years. He's mostly traveling with them because his father used to be part of the adventuring party (and died before the PC was born and the evil releasing thing) and he thinks that his father may still be alive somehow because of reasons that might actually have been delirium. And it all probably has something to do with a yellow figure that haunts him in his (maybe not) dreams. Which may or may not be Hastur. He is well aware that he is going insane if he isn't already.
In fact he True Named his madness, as per the Wizard Discovery True Name. It's name is Melandra and is an advanced Animate Dream. He figures if he keeps it close and keeps his eyes on it, it can't sneak up on him anymore.
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Good, evil, law or chaos. They are merely universal forces. Why would I choose to side with one or two of them when I could control all of them?
This is the neutral wizard I'd like to play. He doesn't regard any alignment above another except neutrality. (Which is more like unaligned in his case.) He doesn't want to accomplish balance. Instead, he furthers his own ideals with whatever seems to be the best solution at the time.
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"Why I fight against evil people? Well, because being mean to other people doesn't make society a liveable place. I don't want my personal life to be influenced by douchebags who want to make other's life miserable. Plus, this cult is about to bring about an apocalypse, isn't this enough motivation?"
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"Every mortal including me is an idiot, so everyone should be smarter... Everything should be smarter. If intelligence brings evil, then evil is the best thing to do. If it brings good, then good is the best thing. The Gods are obviously not the smartest beings in the universe as they are conflicted, and having no resolution to conflicts means they cannot solve their own problems. Law and chaos are simply expressions of action created by an intelligent being. In the end there is no good, evil, chaos or law. There are only problems, and those who have the ability to solve them."-Most character's I play follow this philosophy.
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What makes a man turn neutral?
Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?
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I typically play them as apathetic towards the 4 cardinal alignments. I don't disrespect strict order, but don't have the patience or discipline to achieve it. I don't enjoy seeing others suffer, I merely accept that I can't truly end the suffering so all my actions will do is offer a short, ill-gotten rest. I don't help people out of the kindness of my heart, but when I see something in it for me I will at least try to help, for as long as I have incentive. Etc.
So, for me, the main reason my N characters have to adventure is that adventurers get a really high pay rate, and people don't bother them as much when they resolve conflicts with their only skill set:violence. Lots of people confuse this with how I play CN characters, but the big difference is my CN characters occasionally do something nice out of the goodness of their hearts, or something horrible because its funny.
I'm going to hurt the people that I hate, and I'm going to help the people who I love. But, please, just leave me alone.
Background:
Marroar hails from a distant secluded village deep in a tundra forest. His village was not a very close community. No abode was less than half-a-days travel from each other. In truth each family was more or less on there own, but they stayed in touch just enough for marriages and the trading of goods. Life was harsh in this village which had no name, the inhabitants never saw a reason for one. The villagers, so secluded from others, adopted their own philosophy for viewing life. To them, and by extension Marroar, there is no need to add unnecessary attachment to things and actions. They do not look at the world as "good" and "evil" or "lawful" and "chaotic". They look at things by their function and understand that things die when they cease functioning. They do not take it personally when another's function runs counter to their own, but this does not make them forgiving or merciful.
Marroar has adopted this philosophy fully. That is why he felt no malice when he came back from a hunting trip to discover that his family had been slaughtered by wolves. Should he had decided to stay, he would have slain the wolves for they were a threat to him, but since the wolves also ravaged his families winter food supplies, he decided to move on. No nearby family had the extra resources to take him in, so Marroar was forced to travel south in search of better hunting grounds.
It was at this point that a great wanderlust overtook Marroar. He traveled far and wide getting by as a huntsmen. But this was not the only trade he part took it. Marroar has guarded caravans, apprenticed under mages, and even tried life as a thieving beggar. Marroar's perspective allows him to be very flexible, but also causes him not to focus on any particular skill set.
Marroar only seeks experience. He may not understand the fiery speeches of Heroes or the laughter of greedy men, but he thrills at seeing their ambitions fulfilled provided that he remains interested. Marroar is confused by overly "good" or "evil" actions and is likely lose interested in causes that revolve around these actions. Nor will Marroar remain interested in causes justified by following the law for the law's sake or pursuing freedom for freedom's sake. Marroar is a man of action, but his actions are insensitive. Being dispassionate himself, he is drawn to passionate people with goals and strong conventions.
I see two ways that neutral can be maintained between two extremes.
The first is marginalism - to not go too strongly into either extreme. For good / evil this means that a person might not take any risk to assist others, they will not place innocent people to harm. For law / chaos this means having a philosophy that is not entirely too strongly based on doing what others or reasons expect, and doing what you feel.
The second is extremism - to swing from one extreme to the other in such a way that balance is somehow achieved. This is the more difficult path of the two. Perhaps this is someone that is capable of evil against a specific race, yet is otherwise caring and generous to their own and some other races. For example; an elf that is very anti-human, capable of cruel and savage acts against humans. The same elf is kind, caring, and generous to other elves, halflings, gnomes, etc. Such a thing could happen on the law / chaos axis. This is the person that judges people to a strict standard while in a "home community", yet could practically seem like a different person away from home as they give into every impulsive whim while they are away from anyone that they know from their home community. Not necessarily evil impulses, yet includes vices that they would disapprove of in their own home community.
True neutral is easiest in dual marginalism approach, can be accomplished with marginalism on one axis and extremism on the other, and so difficult to be almost impossible to be extremism on both of the axis areas.
I hate people who are pricks, so if I have a chance to kill them without getting in over my head I will.
Alignment is overrated, you do what you have to to do what you need to. If a party member is wounded, we cast a good heal spell. If a party member is dead, we cast an evil animate dead spell. In the end, both spells keep the ally in the fight. I have no need of morality, I have a job to do.
It doesn't matter, I don't have time for ideology, I'm too pragmatic to care.
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TLDR: I'm curious what types of true neutrals are out there. Here's my character, I'd like to hear about yours.
I've had 3 true neutral characters in recent times. I pegged their alignments as true neutral because they're just normal people as far as their personalities go, but each is really different from one another. They aren't interested in the greater good, they aren't particularly cruel. Here's a bit about each.
1. Makrosa A.K.A. "Makky" (Tiefling Dual-Disciple Psion): Makrosa is a tiefling that lives along the junkyard outside of Sandpoint in a Rise of the Runelords game (that I hope continues in the future, but the GM is out of state in the army). Her best friend is a voodoo doll simply named Voodoo (she can hear him talk, nobody else can yet).
Makrosa is a socially awkward outcast from sandpoint and comes to the town from time to time trading junk that she's found and cleaned up, or for stuff she's traded with some of the more monstrous races in the area whom she's learned to speak with (including goblins, orcs, etc) who for various reasons weren't very apt to mess with her due to her demonic appearance (she's got horns, red skin, long obsidian-black hair, and a long slender tail).
She's pretty easy going and just takes life as it comes and would like to have some friends but has gotten used to being alone (except for Voodoo). She believes herself to be evil (because of what some of the people in Sandpoint said) and has accepted that she simply must be evil since she's a tiefling, but her concept of good and evil don't really match up with the truth of the matter (she had an aasimar friend who she believes is good and blessed, and she is evil and cursed, but doesn't know why everyone can't just get along). One of the other PCs took it upon himself to explain that she wasn't evil for being descended from demons and that was all bigoted rubbish and she shouldn't listen to it.
She doesn't generally go out of her way to actively do good but she's got a pretty clean conscience for the most part and intervenes in situations where she's feeling pretty altruistic. She can have a mean streak though when she gets made and taps into her demonic urges, which usually manifests itself in her nails growing into claws and her becoming more violent.
2. Agatha Aurora (Human Dual-Discipline Psion): Agatha was born in forest in Irrisen after her noble witch mother left Whitethrone and choose to live secluded from society due to her scandalous love affair with her Ulfen manservant. When some Ulfen insurgents killed her mother for being a jadwiga, her aunt Magthera raised her near the cottage where she was born in a small hovel very reminiscent of a hedge-witch or hag's house, and didn't reveal to her that the two were related until much later in her life. Up until then, she lied to Agatha and just said she was a child she snatched up one day to be her witch's apprentice, and being a grumpy and bitter woman (due to her anger with the entire situation leading up to her sister's death) Magthera was a pretty cruel guardian.
Agatha spent the majority of her life learning to be an extremely skilled witch, but wishing that she could interact with normal people. She was a talented shapeshifter and would occasionally spend time watching some of the local villages from the edges of the wilderness, rarely entering the villages unless sent with a disguise to find some nick-knack for some magical experiment or somesuch. She spent much of her time surviving in the wilderness, until her aunt became seriously ill, and opted to bind her soul to Agatha's in a ritual that resulted in Agatha eating her aunt and her aunt becoming her psicrystal (in this case a bone-fetish that looks like a polished eye-socket with an iridescent opal for an eye).
Agatha then, at her mentor's instruction decided to go on a journey out into the world to expand her horizons so to speak. During that journey she was witness to a kidnapping and robbery that left a lot of armed guards dead. Having watched the scene unfolding but being unable to rescue the woman herself, she opted to instead eat the dead bodies because she was hungry and was a giant centipede at the time. Later the party found her, confronted her, found that the giant centipede talked, ended up asking her to lead them to the kidnappers and the rest was history.
3. Alina Draclau (Vampire Vitalist): Alina is a young(ish) vampire that was "slain" during the crusades against Tar Baphon in Ustalav long ago. She was impaled on the pike of a soldier and left for dead (it's likely nobody realized she was a vampire at the time) in the interior of an old Ustalavic castle (or small outpost, or some other mostly stone-bricked structure forgotten about after the war). When the pike eventually wasted away to age (wood rotted and broke down, metal head rusted away, etc) she woke up to find herself in a more modern and very different world than she remembered.
To her surprise, she found a world where the general of the invading army was worshiped as a goddess, the great Tar Baphon had been sealed away, gods had died, Usatalav was a shadow of its former self, and she had no idea where her friends and family were or if they were even still alive anymore. So she set off to do a bit of exploring, where she met a party when they crossed paths at a town destroyed by...something.
A devout worshiper of Urgathoa, Alina enjoys the finer things in life. She's something of a hedonist who prefers to dwell on things that make her happy, feeding, and having sex (conveniently she's usually her happiest when feeding and having sex). She encourages other people to do what makes them happy as well and embrace and love themselves and each other for their gifts and values and doesn't really understand people who are prone to self-loathing, or those who abstain from things that make them happy. She has something of a classist complex when it comes to vampires vs non-vampires, seeing the living as something of a quaint peasantry whom she enjoys spending time with.
She honors the dead and celebrates events by organizing feats and festive events to honor the passing of the dead (where she frequently utters a prayer that Urgathoa guide the departed souls away from the boneyard and to the place that THEY wish to go, rather than their fates being decided by the fraudulent hypocritical-b#@**-goddess) and hopes that they find happiness even more splendid in death than they did in life. Despite the fact she drinks blood, she's also enjoys cooking for others.
The party she crossed up with is escorting a young dhampir that's been the subject of a number of science experiment at a magician's academy where she was being poked and prodded in an attempt to understand how she as a living creature was capable of having an affinity for negative energy and aversion to positive energy. Unfortunately the dhampir's vocal cords were damaged from an event in her past and she mostly just wheezes when she's trying to speak. The party which consists of a group of Paladins trying to escort the young dhampir to a safe location (kind of a witness protection agency sort of thing given some other stuff that the dhampir was involved in pre-campaign start) who are can't understand the dhampir (to the dhampir's frustration) and encourage her to rise above her "curse".
However, Alina finds the whole thing rather silly and encourages the young dhampir to be proud of her noble heritage and sneaks her off into the night to teach her how to be a proper lady and embrace her vampiric heritage. Since the Paladins and Cleric (of Imoadae no less) haven't realized Alina is a vampire, they have no idea what's going on, though the middle-aged cleric seems to be suspicious of her. In any case, Alina has found herself rather amused by the young dhampir and intends to stalk her for a while and be her mentor.
During their travels she was "slain" again by an orc and buried. One of the Paladins left one of her earrings at the grave, and the young dhampir took her hat. When Alina woke back up underground, her initial thought was "Oh for ****'s sake, not again...", and then when she got up she tracked the dhampir and the Paladins down to a nearby village and decided to do a bit of relaxing while in town (she grabbed a taste of the dhampir earlier when nobody was looking so she could track her more easily). The dhampir is pretty sure her nighttime friend is still around since she left her hat on the dresser in the inn, and sometime later she returned to find the hat missing and the Paladin's earring in it's place...
Alina dresses in an old Ustalavic noble-style and wears a long wide-brimmed hat with a feather and an onyx stone set along the center, wears a long cloaked cape, and carries around coins minted in one of the fallen counties of Ustalav that no longer exists.
Bonus points to anyone who can identify where her surname came from. I'll give you a hint: It's not what you think it is, and her family crest is a Purple Cardinal. ;)
My sorceress has the goal of earning 5000 gold pieces. She reckons that should be enough to live comfortably on for the rest of her life.
She's level 4 now. If survives long enough, there will come a point where she'll either have to adjust her objective or retire, but since it's a low wealth campaign this hasn't been a problem yet.
My sorceress has the goal of earning 5000 gold pieces. She reckons that should be enough to live comfortably on for the rest of her life.
She's level 4 now. If survives long enough, there will come a point where she'll either have to adjust her objective or retire, but since it's a low wealth campaign this hasn't been a problem yet.
I guess it depends on your definition of comfortably. 5,000 gp would get her 41 years of average lifestyle, which is pretty solid if you're just looking to retire humbly. It'd only be 4.1 years if you wanted to retire wealthy though.
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My bard isn't really true neutral - he's just neutral neutral. He doesn't really care about that sort of stuff either way.
He's mostly after finding great stories to tell about... himself. And glory. He's all about glory. He mostly helps people out, because who's going to tell an epic ballad about a jerk? But, he doesn't really care that much either. (his inspire courage is through perform: oratory - telling stories about himself)
After he saves someone and delivers them back home, unlike some GTS, he's not going to bother making sure that they'll remain safe. He's too busy posing for his adoring fans!
(and he may have a tendency to rewrite history a bit - "And then I stood with blade drawn against tide of the orcish hordes... and Thog the Barbarian, I think he might have been there too...")
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5,000 gp would get her 41 years of average lifestyle, which is pretty solid if you're just looking to retire humbly. It'd only be 4.1 years if you wanted to retire wealthy though.
Really? Good. That leaves some flexibility for her to get greedy later on.
5,000 gp would get her 41 years of average lifestyle, which is pretty solid if you're just looking to retire humbly. It'd only be 4.1 years if you wanted to retire wealthy though.Really? Good. That leaves some flexibility for her to get greedy later on.
Yep. If you wanted to go the extra mile, you could reach epic levels before she got enough cash to retire extravagantly (costing 12,000 gp / year), as it would cost her about 492,000 gp to retire for 41 years at that lifestyle. If you wanted to ensure that she had enough dosh to last until she died of old age, your might be looking into the realm of about 1,320,000 gp minus 12,000 gp for every year she has already been alive (so if she's 33 years old, it would take her 396,000 less gp to ensure extravagant lifestyle until she died of absolute old age).
I played a Lizardfolk ranger in an Eberron campaign (Q'barra). He didn't give a hoot about all those pesky humans trudging through "his" jungle, but hired himself out as a guide nonetheless. Even lizard people got to make a living.
After the party came across a threat that endangered the whole region, he helped them because his tribe was affected, too. Eating the hearts of particularly powerful enemies in front of the paladin and the treehugger elves didn't make him win popularity contests, though.
Not my character, but obviously when I think of True Neutral I think Mordenkainen.
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I played a Lizardfolk ranger in an Eberron campaign (Q'barra). He didn't give a hoot about all those pesky humans trudging through "his" jungle, but hired himself out as a guide nonetheless. Even lizard people got to make a living.
After the party came across a threat that endangered the whole region, he helped them because his tribe was affected, too. Eating the hearts of particularly powerful enemies in front of the paladin and the treehugger elves didn't make him win popularity contests, though.
I've had at least one Paladin that would've asked if you brought enough for everyone.
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There are most possibilities for wildly different characters with TN than any other alignment.
My druid is either TN or CN depending on what campaign he's in. Traditional Druid TN is being concerned with balance and nature and all that. My Druid has the feral child archetype. He's 12 and was literally raised by wolves. As such he tends to think and act like one. Should he be forced into a campaign of nobles and intrigue, he'd probably be more CN. In a more wilderness/exploration game, he'd be TN.
My favorite TN character in fiction is Nico Bellic from GTA IV. He's just so completely and utterly mercenary. What separates him from a Ne mercenary is that he doesn't really enjoy killing though he's good at it nor does he want massive wealth. He just wants to get a fresh start and have a comfortable lifestyle. Unfortunately, being trained as a professional killer and working at the height of the Yugoslav Wars doesn't leave one with many peaceful marketable skills. And so Nico will do almost anything: killing, stealing, driving, bodyguarding, bowling (Cousin!)
This is a model for a mercenary character in a non-evil campaign. I'll fight your wars, kill your enemies, Hells I'll even do your gardening so long as I get paid.
The only fully neutral character I've played for more than one session is my priest of Pharasma. It was actually pretty interesting to develop and role-playing his motives. Most of my characters have been "heros", so I need to be mindful that what drives him needs to be primarily the goals of his deity, and then to keep to the mission. Protecting the innocent, etc. is only important if it furthers the mission.
"Meh."
My favorite TN character in fiction is Nico Bellic from GTA IV. He's just so completely and utterly mercenary. What separates him from a Ne mercenary is that he doesn't really enjoy killing though he's good at it nor does he want massive wealth. He just wants to get a fresh start and have a comfortable lifestyle. Unfortunately, being trained as a professional killer and working at the height of the Yugoslav Wars doesn't leave one with many peaceful marketable skills. And so Nico will do almost anything: killing, stealing, driving, bodyguarding, bowling (Cousin!)
You think that killing hundreds of innocent people, either for the sake of money he doesn't really need, or just to pass the time while driving across town (I assume that all GTA4 players did this), doesn't push you into 'evil' territory?
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You think that killing hundreds of innocent people, either for the sake of money he doesn't really need, or just to pass the time while driving across town (I assume that all GTA4 players did this), doesn't push you into 'evil' territory?
Yeah, but that's the player doing that, not Nico.
My favorite TN character in fiction is Nico Bellic from GTA IV. He's just so completely and utterly mercenary. What separates him from a Ne mercenary is that he doesn't really enjoy killing though he's good at it nor does he want massive wealth. He just wants to get a fresh start and have a comfortable lifestyle. Unfortunately, being trained as a professional killer and working at the height of the Yugoslav Wars doesn't leave one with many peaceful marketable skills. And so Nico will do almost anything: killing, stealing, driving, bodyguarding, bowling (Cousin!)You think that killing hundreds of innocent people, either for the sake of money he doesn't really need, or just to pass the time while driving across town (I assume that all GTA4 players did this), doesn't push you into 'evil' territory?
I liked Nico initially. I really appreciated the fact that the main character seemed to be a guy who really wasn't interested in doing anything shady and just got thrust into a bad situation, and in the very beginning of the game it looked like you were going to get to actually be kind of a noble-criminal in this game (as there's an early mission that explains that you'll make choices in the game, and as an example you have to choose between sparing this one dude or killing him as you were told).
The rest of the game was a complete disappointment after that build up. Nico's unique individuality and personality just falls off the planet, and I can't even remember another choice in the game where I got to choose between two paths.
It's GTA, the whole selling point of the franchise is a license to be an unredeemable scumbag.My favorite TN character in fiction is Nico Bellic from GTA IV. He's just so completely and utterly mercenary. What separates him from a Ne mercenary is that he doesn't really enjoy killing though he's good at it nor does he want massive wealth. He just wants to get a fresh start and have a comfortable lifestyle. Unfortunately, being trained as a professional killer and working at the height of the Yugoslav Wars doesn't leave one with many peaceful marketable skills. And so Nico will do almost anything: killing, stealing, driving, bodyguarding, bowling (Cousin!)You think that killing hundreds of innocent people, either for the sake of money he doesn't really need, or just to pass the time while driving across town (I assume that all GTA4 players did this), doesn't push you into 'evil' territory?I liked Nico initially. I really appreciated the fact that the main character seemed to be a guy who really wasn't interested in doing anything shady and just got thrust into a bad situation, and in the very beginning of the game it looked like you were going to get to actually be kind of a noble-criminal in this game (as there's an early mission that explains that you'll make choices in the game, and as an example you have to choose between sparing this one dude or killing him as you were told).
The rest of the game was a complete disappointment after that build up. Nico's unique individuality and personality just falls off the planet, and I can't even remember another choice in the game where I got to choose between two paths.
Perhaps I was spoiled by Red Dead Redemption which is basically a GTA Western. I was hoping that they had moved in a direction where not only did you have a license to be super-douche, but also super-not-so-douche. :P
EDIT: Suffice to say that while I was a big fan of GTA III, Vice City (loved Vice City), and San Andreas, I was really excited with the pacing that IV was beginning with and was excited about what looked like it was going to be a really great story even if the best gameplay elements from the previous GTAs were missing (seriously, GTA IV felt like a big step backwards to GTA III but with less stuff to play with, mechanically speaking). I was let down, and the highlight was probably the bank robbery which was a random side quest.
"I care so little, I wouldn't even be adventuring if I wasn't bored"
"Now this was worth getting out of bed to see!"
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True Neutral:
I'm willing to go to through some difficulty or to expose myself to risk to help others.... but only when it's to benefit people/places/things that I like/love. For everyone/everyplace/everything else that requires heroes or protection, that's either not my job or it requires some incentive for me to get on board."
This is neither good nor evil, but the Neutral character probably still self-identify as "good" and probably refute anyone proclaiming him otherwise.
This is neither more chaotic nor more lawful as the character is quite willing to see to the good of his community over his own interests, but only with that community he chooses to identify with and not with groups he fails/declines with which to self-identify.
"Why I fight against evil people? Well, because being mean to other people doesn't make society a liveable place. I don't want my personal life to be influenced by douchebags who want to make other's life miserable. Plus, this cult is about to bring about an apocalypse, isn't this enough motivation?"
True Neutral:
I'm willing to go to through some difficulty or to expose myself to risk to help others.... but only when it's to benefit people/places/things that I like/love. For everyone/everyplace/everything else that requires heroes or protection, that's either not my job or it requires some incentive for me to get on board."
This is neither good nor evil, but the Neutral character probably still self-identify as "good" and probably refute anyone proclaiming him otherwise.
This is neither more chaotic nor more lawful as the character is quite willing to see to the good of his community over his own interests, but only with that community he chooses to identify with and not with groups he fails/declines with which to self-identify.
I'm going to hurt the people that I hate, and I'm going to help the people who I love.
I hate people who are pricks, so if I have a chance to kill them without getting in over my head I will.
My bard isn't really true neutral - he's just neutral neutral. He doesn't really care about that sort of stuff either way.
He's mostly after finding great stories to tell about... himself. And glory. He's all about glory. He mostly helps people out, because who's going to tell an epic ballad about a jerk? But, he doesn't really care that much either. (his inspire courage is through perform: oratory - telling stories about himself)
After he saves someone and delivers them back home, unlike some GTS, he's not going to bother making sure that they'll remain safe. He's too busy posing for his adoring fans!
(and he may have a tendency to rewrite history a bit - "And then I stood with blade drawn against tide of the orcish hordes... and Thog the Barbarian, I think he might have been there too...")
I played a Lizardfolk ranger in an Eberron campaign (Q'barra). He didn't give a hoot about all those pesky humans trudging through "his" jungle, but hired himself out as a guide nonetheless. Even lizard people got to make a living.
After the party came across a threat that endangered the whole region, he helped them because his tribe was affected, too. Eating the hearts of particularly powerful enemies in front of the paladin and the treehugger elves didn't make him win popularity contests, though.
Yes, all of the above are great examples and conceptions of N [anti]heroes!
I don't care.
My favorite TN character in fiction is Nico Bellic from GTA IV. He's just so completely and utterly mercenary. What separates him from a Ne mercenary is that he doesn't really enjoy killing though he's good at it nor does he want massive wealth. He just wants to get a fresh start and have a comfortable lifestyle. Unfortunately, being trained as a professional killer and working at the height of the Yugoslav Wars doesn't leave one with many peaceful marketable skills. And so Nico will do almost anything: killing, stealing, driving, bodyguarding, bowling (Cousin!)You think that killing hundreds of innocent people, either for the sake of money he doesn't really need, or just to pass the time while driving across town (I assume that all GTA4 players did this), doesn't push you into 'evil' territory?
Yeah, I'm finding it a bit worrisome that apathy and mercenary violence so often get conflated with neutrality. I guess a surprising number of gamers only recognize the narrow Disney-style mustachio-twirling outright-malicious kind of evil as evil?
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"I'm a reasonable person. I do reasonable things, for reasonable reasons. There are, however, some that get in my way. That make me unreasonable. Thus far they've been dealt with handily and will be dealt with continuously until their predecessors learn better. I will also be the first to admit that I am not a nice person. Yet, this isn't to say I won't do nice things. I can be kind, I can be polite and generous, I can even be friendly and trustful. However, realistically, a large part of me does that because I wish to gain a particularly valuable resource. Influence. What better way is there to "win" friends, the trust and loyalty of others, then by trusting, being kind and polite to them? Truly, to this day I have two informants in my network that gather information for me, simply because I've asked nicely and because of my position. Two others still work for me, because I am kind and provide them each a carton of berries. This isn't to say that I am unfeeling or apathetic. Some of them I truly do hold as good friends in fact. However, having my attention can be a dangerous thing, whether that attention is good or bad. Thus, I give it sparingly. Lastly, I will say this, I will protect my people. I made myself a promise that I would do so. Not because I feel one way or another for all of them. A few of them perhaps, but not all of them. No, I protect because of the past and my reluctance for that tragic past to happen once again."
From my true neutral wizard in a kingmaker campaign.
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"I want to see everyone laugh, not that i care about the people i like watching people happy, it pleases me. So when you kill somone you are stealing me of my joy, you will regret stealing me of my joy. However i dont mind torturing people as long people are happy with that"
That's an evil character.
Unlike a lot of video games with a morality scale - a neutral character isn't one who spends half of his time helping people cross the street and the other half stabbing innocents in the throat because it's funny. If they do - they're just evil with some quirks.
Heck - just because Hannibal Lector helped the FBI catch Buffalo Bill in Silence of the Lambs - that in no way shifts him from evil to neutral.
Usually my neutral characters tend to have a fairly narrow world view. For example, one of my character's friends was killed by the campaign's Big Bad, and my character was out for vengeance. He generally didn't care so much about helping out random strangers, but he wasn't a jerk either. He was just very focused on his goal of getting justice/vengeance, and not too worried about things other than that.
Another example I ran was an Order of the Dragon cavalier, who took the whole "Help the party" philosophy of his order very seriously. His only concern was what was good for the group as a whole, and anyone outside the party wasn't of much concern to him.
You think that killing hundreds of innocent people, either for the sake of money he doesn't really need, or just to pass the time while driving across town (I assume that all GTA4 players did this), doesn't push you into 'evil' territory?Yeah, but that's the player doing that, not Nico.
Exactly I specifically highlighted what happens outside of the player's control. And don't assume anything. Some people like the story of GTA. Not to mention the rampages are certainly not in character for Nico or else the game would end because he'd be hunted down as the worst terrorist since bin Laden himself.
And I don't think he's Neutral Evil, at least in the beginning. In fact, I think the point of the story is how the world of organized crime drags you down no matter what you want. He wants a fresh start but soon gets pulled down by the people in his life and his lack of experience in a world outside of killing and crime. It's kinda tragic really.
I have never had a true Neutral. Closest I've gotten is Chaotic Neutral. She was pretty volatile, but she was a Warlock too, so it made sense that she'd change her mind and was pretty unpredictable.