|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I got a GM question. Assuming a character has the ability to enter stealth without having cover or concealment (via hide in plain sight or hellcat stealth)
Can such a character do the following:
1) While starting a round in stealth, attack (breaking stealth) then move half speed and enter stealth again?
2) Enter stealth as part of a movement, then in the same turn, use his standard action to attack a target (breaking stealth).
I'm asking this questions, as the stealth rules seems to cover only sniping, and not able to enter Stealth while attacking, running, or charging.
With the ability to enter stealth without cover or concealment, does such a character 3) even need to use the sniping rules? And 4) Can you actually attack and enter stealth in the same round?
No homebrew rules.
|
Only way I see this working (disregarding sniping) is if you started off stealthed next to them already. That way you can attack (standard action) and then move+stealth (move action) (assuming you have cover, concealment, or an ability that lets you stealth without those).
The rules don't say you can't, so as long as you're not breaking the rules with the standard stealth rules to do so (like I just listed above) then it should be perfectly fine.
|
|
One reason I'm asking is partly due to how sniping states that "You take a –20 penalty on your Stealth check to maintain your obscured location"
If hide in plain sight or hellcat stealth allows you to stealth without cover, won't that means sniping is pointless for a character that makes use of these 2 ability/feat? After all, why suffer a -20 to stealth if you can just walk 5-15 feet to a side and hide again? This time with no penalties. As long as you keep moving, you gain all the advantages of full stealth with no drawbacks.
Hence me asking if a character can attack AND hide in the same round? Or does the act of attacking means the "not able to enter Stealth while attacking" part of the stealth rules coming into effect for that TURN? And that sniping is the only way to achieve an attack and stealth in the same turn?
Dotted for further reading :)
|
Meh. Does it really mean anything different than "I start using the Stealth skill"?
Yes, because it has caused hundreds of newbies to, over and over, wonder if they can just approach a monster through the brightly lit room with no cover at half speed, making Stealth checks to be invisible. I have seen beginner rogues stab someone and then immediately start rolling Stealth skill checks while still in melee, because they want to "go into stealth" and get another sneak attack.
I'll admit it's a bit of a pet peeve of mine.
And Breaking Stealth is specifically used in the Stealth rules. (From the errata, I believe.)
Semantics, and irrelevant. Good catch though.
1) Yes
2) Yes
3) No, but sniping may be beneficial as they never knew where you were. Breaking Stealth and reentering it they saw you for a little bit, so probably have an idea of your location.
4) Yes
The whole objection is semantics.
Yes. Or, in other words, the whole objection is that people don't understand what the Stealth rules mean, and hence are playing it wrong.
"Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action."
If you're moving, you're moving. If you're moving "stealthily," you add a Stealth check onto that. There's no such thing as "entering stealth," but you can try to do anything stealthily that you like -- as long as it makes sense in the first place. (Good luck using Perform (tuba) stealthily.)
These people who don't understand it may include you. Your phrasing of "Does it really mean anything different than "I start using the Stealth skill"?" suggests that you don't understand that stealth is an add-on to a separate action, not an action in its own right.
|
|
These people who don't understand it may include you. Your phrasing of "Does it really mean anything different than "I start using the Stealth skill"?" suggests that you don't understand that stealth is an add-on to a separate action, not an action in its own right.
This is ridiculous, it's purely semantics.
I will add, just don't go down the rabbit hole of allowing a 5ft step to count as sufficient movement to use stealth.
Some people are all for it, but personally I find it too abusive and it is not clear whether or not it should be allowed by the rules.
I don't know if its strictly correct or not, but my interpretation of the stealth skill is its a movement type activated skill, much like tumble is within Acrobatics. Clarify though that movement isn't REQUIRED to do it, merely that when moving, it is much like tumble in that it affects/is affected by movement. You can stay hidden and attack (sniping) or move and attack while being stealthy. I would never allow someone to get multiple attacks while 'hiding' unless they have something that specifically will keep them hidden, like Improved Invisibility. After all, they are trying NOT to draw attention to themselves, right? Additionally, they have to have something to hide behind or blend into, unless they have Hide in Plain Sight.
I will add, just don't go down the rabbit hole of allowing a 5ft step to count as sufficient movement to use stealth.
Some people are all for it, but personally I find it too abusive and it is not clear whether or not it should be allowed by the rules.
Oh, how so? I allow 5 foot steps stealth and have never considered it abusive, nor has it really caused any issue in my game. It is a type of movement so seems to qualify, and it actually makes a skill useful for combat.
Oh, how so? I allow 5 foot steps stealth and have never considered it abusive, nor has it really caused any issue in my game. It is a type of movement so seems to qualify, and it actually makes a skill useful for combat.I will add, just don't go down the rabbit hole of allowing a 5ft step to count as sufficient movement to use stealth.
Some people are all for it, but personally I find it too abusive and it is not clear whether or not it should be allowed by the rules.
I mean if you like people getting full attacks without much ability for retaliation then sure.
Ultimately, in answer to this question, I see no reason why you couldn't move, make a single attack, and move again, so long as you A) have sufficient movement capable of exiting concealment and retreating to concealment likely requiring Fast Stealth and B) have an ability (such as Spring Attack) that allows you to move, attack, and move again.
The idea of stealth is more like a state of being (hidden), so long as you qualify. Yes, someone sees you lunge from the shadows, but do they have sufficient time to react? I see it as akin to being caught flat-footed in a surprise round. And knowing there's someone in the shadows doesn't mean you aren't flat-footed any more than knowing there's an invisible monster in the area does.
I don't know if its strictly correct or not, but my interpretation of the stealth skill is its a movement type activated skill, much like tumble is within Acrobatics. You can stay hidden and attack (sniping) or move and attack while being stealthy. I would never allow someone to get multiple attacks while 'hiding' unless they have something that specifically will keep them hidden, like Improved Invisibility. After all, they are trying NOT to draw attention to themselves, right? Additionally, they have to have something to hide behind or blend into, unless they have Hide in Plain Sight.I'm not sure if that was in response to me, but I'd certainly agree there are problems with full attacking while hiding. All I was saying is that you don't actually have to move to use Stealth. I wasn't even going into what type of action it would be. If you're in concealment or behind cover, you can just stay there and be stealthy.
More of a general comment. Stealth is a skill and a modification of 'presence'. It's rather unique, taking on different qualities at different times. I would look at it as requiring an action (movement) or that it becomes a move action in and of itself. In that way, it is either like tumble or drawing a weapon. If moving, it modifies the movement, or is a movement action in and of itself. IE: drawing a weapon can be a movement, or done as part of a movement.
This has been the way I've played it. In most games, I've treated lighting and concealment rather player friendly, since so many are used to WoW, but getting full attack actions while being 'stealthed' is simply too powerful unless some hefty magic is involved (Imp. Invis or similar). A few ranks in a skill should never be sufficient for that level of power.
But if you suggest that "I start using the stealth skill" is inherently wrong or inherently different than "I go into stealth", that makes no sense to me.
Well, "I start using the stealth skill" is inherently wrong, or at least incomplete.
If you want it in terms of formal semantics,.... "stealthily" is an adverb, in English. Semantically, it's a function that takes an action (a verb frame) and modifies it into another verb frame. Stealth is neither a state, nor is it an action in its own right.
Is it inherently wrong, mathematically speaking, to say "I divide three"? I submit that it is. Division is a binary operation, and you need to divide something by something else. I can divide three by five, or three by two, but I can't simply divide three.
It also makes little sense for me to stand in the middle of an empty field and try to use the Disable Device skill, because Disable Device inherently requires an object (a device) to disable. If I say "I start using the craft skill," you need to determine what I'm crafting.
Similarly, I can apply a stealth roll to an action to do it stealthily, but I can't simply "start using the stealth skill," because I need to have an action to apply stealth too.
The problem is that most of the skills are implicitly verbs (which is why they take actions -- I craft, I fly, I know, I bluff, I swim, I survive); the stealth skill is a noted exception precisely because it doesn't take an action but is applied to one.
Another example:
You don't have to move to use stealth.
Nope. But you have do to SOMETHING. You acknowledge that yourself in your example.
You could for example, just try to be quiet while staying in one spot,
That's precisely the point.
Stealth is basically, "try to be quiet while <something>"
There are many things you can do that don't typically require skill rolls; standing there is one. Talking is another. Taking an item out of your pocket, drinking a potion, counting the number of orcs in a band,.... the options are legion.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I mean if you like people getting full attacks without much ability for retaliation then sure.Oh, how so? I allow 5 foot steps stealth and have never considered it abusive, nor has it really caused any issue in my game. It is a type of movement so seems to qualify, and it actually makes a skill useful for combat.I will add, just don't go down the rabbit hole of allowing a 5ft step to count as sufficient movement to use stealth.
Some people are all for it, but personally I find it too abusive and it is not clear whether or not it should be allowed by the rules.
Well, if someone puts that much resources into reliably being stealthy, I never saw an issue with it. I don't find stealth reliable until in at least the 30's, so they probably have skill focus (stealth). To overcome the vision they need HIPS (which has significant investment) or Hellcat's (that comes with a feat tax and at -10). Their going to have at least improved shadow armor. For Blindsight/blindsense you need dampen presence. All in all they have between 3-5 feats dedicated to stealth and a huge amount of financial resources. Even then, people will overcome it. There are also AOE's as you have a pretty good idea where they went, faerie fire or glitterdust when they next reveal themselves.
I feel when a player devotes 25% of his resources to doing one thing by level 10, he should be able to do that thing rather well.
You can just stand there doing nothing and roll stealth vs. someone if you have hide in plain sight. No action taken, swift nor standard nor move. Stealth doesn't require an action and is not an action. It is a state of being when you enter someone else's range of perception without alerting them.
But I don't see anything but a semantic difference between "I go into stealth and move through the underbrush to the edge of the field. Got a 16." and "I move through the underbrush to the edge of the field, using the Stealth skill. Got a 16."
But that's not what we were talking about. We were talking about "I go into stealth."
Because people treat "stealth" as a state and therefore expect to be able simply to enter or leave that state without any associated behaviors. As was described above, `I have seen beginner rogues stab someone and then immediately start rolling Stealth skill checks while still in melee, because they want to "go into stealth".'
Is there an other-than-semantic difference between an understanding that permits an illegal set of actions, and one that does not?
I'd say that there isn't. I'd say that the difference is purely semantic; that the person in question does not know what the words involved mean.
n understanding that permits an illegal set of actions, and one that does not?
I'd say that there isn't. I'd say that the difference is purely semantic; that the person in question does not know what the words involved mean.
That may be what you're talking about. The Morphling was objecting to the words.
And that was my point: Whether I use the words "I go into stealth" or "I use the stealth skill" doesn't matter. They mean the same thing.
No, they don't mean the same thing. If I say "hand me that piano" and point to a coffee cup, you can understand what I actually want (and give me the cup I requested), but that doesn't mean that "piano" and "coffee cup" are synonyms.
(And yes, that distinction is "just semantics.")
Using "I go into stealth" doesn't mean you don't understand the rules.
Perhaps. But, funny, I've never encountered anyone who uses the phrase "go into stealth" who does understand the rules.
Stealth is a noun and an adjective. Stealth means "secret procedure", or a secretive, furtive movement. To say "I go into stealth" would be akin to saying then "I go into a silent form of movement", which would be acceptable, would it not? "I use my silent furtive departure skill", totally unacceptable? Perhaps we should seek an English Doctoral recipient in order to clarify this...
OR we could actually discuss the rules at question rather than argue basic grammar that pretty much any English speaking person that hasn't lived under a rock for the last twenty years understands. Unless you really are more interested in when to use who or whom and proper use of dangling participles.
I mean if you like people getting full attacks without much ability for retaliation then sure.Oh, how so? I allow 5 foot steps stealth and have never considered it abusive, nor has it really caused any issue in my game. It is a type of movement so seems to qualify, and it actually makes a skill useful for combat.I will add, just don't go down the rabbit hole of allowing a 5ft step to count as sufficient movement to use stealth.
Some people are all for it, but personally I find it too abusive and it is not clear whether or not it should be allowed by the rules.
Well, if someone puts that much resources into reliably being stealthy, I never saw an issue with it. I don't find stealth reliable until in at least the 30's, so they probably have skill focus (stealth). To overcome the vision they need HIPS (which has significant investment) or Hellcat's (that comes with a feat tax and at -10). Their going to have at least improved shadow armor. For Blindsight/blindsense you need dampen presence. All in all they have between 3-5 feats dedicated to stealth and a huge amount of financial resources. Even then, people will overcome it. There are also AOE's as you have a pretty good idea where they went, faerie fire or glitterdust when they next reveal themselves.
I feel when a player devotes 25% of his resources to doing one thing by level 10, he should be able to do that thing rather well.
I have no problem with them doing it rather well, just about being able to it with a full attack. The fact that you basically need to use readied actions and magic to counter it means I'm not big on it because it means martial characters don't have a very good counter to it.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
As a GM, my main concern about stealth is that when made high enough via items + feats, Stealth seems to become a sort of unbreakable invisibility.
A character build this way could, in theory kill any BBEG or monster that don't have enough perception to break the stealth.
Effectively it becomes a sort of super stealth.
I have no problem with them doing it rather well, just about being able to it with a full attack. The fact that you basically need to use readied actions and magic to counter it means I'm not big on it because it means martial characters don't have a very good counter to it.I mean if you like people getting full attacks without much ability for retaliation then sure.Oh, how so? I allow 5 foot steps stealth and have never considered it abusive, nor has it really caused any issue in my game. It is a type of movement so seems to qualify, and it actually makes a skill useful for combat.I will add, just don't go down the rabbit hole of allowing a 5ft step to count as sufficient movement to use stealth.
Some people are all for it, but personally I find it too abusive and it is not clear whether or not it should be allowed by the rules.
Well, if someone puts that much resources into reliably being stealthy, I never saw an issue with it. I don't find stealth reliable until in at least the 30's, so they probably have skill focus (stealth). To overcome the vision they need HIPS (which has significant investment) or Hellcat's (that comes with a feat tax and at -10). Their going to have at least improved shadow armor. For Blindsight/blindsense you need dampen presence. All in all they have between 3-5 feats dedicated to stealth and a huge amount of financial resources. Even then, people will overcome it. There are also AOE's as you have a pretty good idea where they went, faerie fire or glitterdust when they next reveal themselves.
I feel when a player devotes 25% of his resources to doing one thing by level 10, he should be able to do that thing rather well.
Well lets think. Hellcat Stealth comes in at best 6th level. Other methods of HiPS like Shadow Well comes in at 11th. Those are pretty much the best version of HiPS right now and incredible feat investments. So whatever character is behind that is probably going to be lacking in actual offensive power. Any intelligent BBEG is relatively free to walk away from the stealthing individual or if they're a caster(As most BBEG are), they can get around it with magic.
And heck, I haven't felt particularly awesome yet. Just managing to kill some mooks and avoid spooky single target effects due to total concealment.
|
|
@thejeff and Garren,
As a PFS GM, I don't always have the option of making the BBEG run away. Many combat tactics call for BBEGs to fight to the death, so I'm stuck having a BBEG running around trying to find the invis or super stealth character.
I'm fine with a character investing feats and items to come up with a cool combo, what worries me is the fact that some combos would pretty much make the game trivial to the other players at the table.
And in the case of HiPS and similar abilities, logic gets thrown out the window too!
@thejeff and Garren,
As a PFS GM, I don't always have the option of making the BBEG run away. Many combat tactics call for BBEGs to fight to the death, so I'm stuck having a BBEG running around trying to find the invis or super stealth character.
I'm fine with a character investing feats and items to come up with a cool combo, what worries me is the fact that some combos would pretty much make the game trivial to the other players at the table.
And in the case of HiPS and similar abilities, logic gets thrown out the window too!
I have absolutely no compassion for the strict guidelines of PFS. That just sounds like PFS continues to be one dimensional encounters. If anything, that continues to show how little merit PFS should have on rules discussions.
HiPS and similar abilities are supernatural or extraordinary that go beyond the realm of realism, as well they should since the levels you gain them are far beyond the ken of normal folks like you and I. Logic doesn't apply to them and logic hasn't applied to Pathfinder for a long time. This is the same game where Elementals can catch a fever and battle axes benefit more from dexterity than daggers do.
|
|
@thejeff and Garren,
As a PFS GM, I don't always have the option of making the BBEG run away. Many combat tactics call for BBEGs to fight to the death, so I'm stuck having a BBEG running around trying to find the invis or super stealth character.
I'm fine with a character investing feats and items to come up with a cool combo, what worries me is the fact that some combos would pretty much make the game trivial to the other players at the table.
And in the case of HiPS and similar abilities, logic gets thrown out the window too!
I have absolutely no compassion for the strict guidelines of PFS. That just sounds like PFS continues to be one dimensional encounters. If anything, that continues to show how little merit PFS should have on rules discussions.
HiPS and similar abilities are supernatural or extraordinary that go beyond the realm of realism, as well they should since the levels you gain them are far beyond the ken of normal folks like you and I. Logic doesn't apply to them and logic hasn't applied to Pathfinder for a long time. This is the same game where Elementals can catch a fever and battle axes benefit more from dexterity than daggers do.
Oh dear, I think I gave the wrong impression.
PFS really not that stiff on the guidelines, Scavion.
The guide to PFS does state that as GMs we have the right to adjust the encounters if the combat tactics no longer fit.
I was envisioning a specific scenario in my above post.
I have talked to my VO, and he does say its up to me to decide when things gets weird.
I was just trying to see if there is anything within the rules that I should understand. After all its a lot easier to rule within the rules, then having to make a judgement call.
I got a GM question. Assuming a character has the ability to enter stealth without having cover or concealment (via hide in plain sight or hellcat stealth)
Can such a character do the following:1) While starting a round in stealth, attack (breaking stealth) then move half speed and enter stealth again?
Yes. (Or more than half but less than full speed at a -5 penalty, or with no penalty if they have Fast Stealth or something similar.)
2) Enter stealth as part of a movement, then in the same turn, use his standard action to attack a target (breaking stealth).
Yes.
I'm asking this questions, as the stealth rules seems to cover only sniping, and not able to enter Stealth while attacking, running, or charging.
Your 1st and 2nd scenario are only prevented in normal Stealth by being observed. Normally, if you are observed, you have to break observation before you can enter/re-enter Stealth.
HiPS of any kind overrides all that because you can now use Stealth even while observed and without cover/concealment as long as you meet the criterea for the version of HiPS you have (Ex: within 10' of dim light, in favored terrain, in bright/normal light).
With the ability to enter stealth without cover or concealment, does such a character 3) even need to use the sniping rules?
Do you NEED to? No. Might it be useful on occasion? Yes. With HiPS you are popping in and out of view, an intelligent enemy can sometimes figure out how to handle that. With Sniping you are never seen at all, which could save your skin in some scenarios.
And 4) Can you actually attack and enter stealth in the same round?
Yes.
If it can help some, here's the stealth playtest.
BE CAREFUL, IT'S NOT RAW!
But it can explain some RAI, and some GM may want to use it as houserules (as I do most of the time).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Oh, how so? I allow 5 foot steps stealth and have never considered it abusive, nor has it really caused any issue in my game. It is a type of movement so seems to qualify, and it actually makes a skill useful for combat.I will add, just don't go down the rabbit hole of allowing a 5ft step to count as sufficient movement to use stealth.
Some people are all for it, but personally I find it too abusive and it is not clear whether or not it should be allowed by the rules.
It's a legitimate use of Stealth. Part of a movement =/= part of a Move Action. The Stealth description even goes so far as to specifically state the only situation in which using Stealth actually takes up a full Move Action:
Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action. However, using Stealth immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.
For your consideration:
Also, don't forget the first line in the action description says, "Usually none."
Granted, JJ isn't a Rules Team guy and never claims that his word is official law, or official RAW. But he is a designer and has been playing these games for a very long time. So I usually take his words as a compass point to see if I am in the right ballpark with my own interpretations. As far as I am concerned, use of a 5' Step to initiate Stealth is legit.
I mean if you like people getting full attacks without much ability for retaliation then sure.
Still, only the first attack would get Sneak Attack and with so many resources poured into Stealth, they probably don't have much spent in getting more damage out of a regular strike. I have played a lot of these characters, they can be pretty awesome, but still shouldn't be out-damaging your Fighter/Barb/Ranger. Additionally, it's not actually that hard to thwart Stealth.
I have no problem with them doing it rather well, just about being able to it with a full attack. The fact that you basically need to use readied actions and magic to counter it means I'm not big on it because it means martial characters don't have a very good counter to it.
Firstly: I would think you would appreciate that kind of ability. It's a predominantly martial class ability. It gives them a really nice set of mystical-ish tactics to work with.
Secondly: Seriously, it's not nearly as monumental a task to deal with as you seem to think. A doorway or hallway and a tower shield can give the run of the mill lvl 1 Fighter 100% protection from a guy with HiPS. Get creative with Spartan tactics, choke points. A torch would probably work pretty well too in most cases. Also, that readied action from a Fighter can easily take 50% of a Rogue based character's HP in one blow. Or better yet, use that readied action to do something more effective, hit the HiPS guy with Alchemist's Fire... if he's on fire I would say he won't be hiding very well. A Sneezing powerder or a Tanglefoot/burn bag would work well too. A cloak of Displacement, when you have the money, will also protect you from Sneak Attack.
|
|
Just to confirm what Shadowlord said. A 5 foot step is NOT a movement and would not qualify for stealthing.
Remember you can only take a 5 foot step if you did not take any movements that turn.
NOT any move action, but movement. Meaning you can draw a weapon as a move action and still take a 5 foot step, but if you walk, crawl, swim, fly, etc, those are movements.
Just to confirm what Shadowlord said. A 5 foot step is NOT a movement and would not qualify for stealthing.
Remember you can only take a 5 foot step if you did not take any movements that turn.
NOT any move action, but movement. Meaning you can draw a weapon as a move action and still take a 5 foot step, but if you walk, crawl, swim, fly, etc, those are movements.
Shadowlord said the 5' step would qualify as movement.
|
|
Just to confirm what Shadowlord said. A 5 foot step is NOT a movement and would not qualify for stealthing.
Remember you can only take a 5 foot step if you did not take any movements that turn.
NOT any move action, but movement. Meaning you can draw a weapon as a move action and still take a 5 foot step, but if you walk, crawl, swim, fly, etc, those are movements.
I don't think you are agreeing, but rather disagreeing.
Well lets think. Hellcat Stealth comes in at best 6th level. Other methods of HiPS like Shadow Well comes in at 11th. Those are pretty much the best version of HiPS right now and incredible feat investments. So whatever character is behind that is probably going to be lacking in actual offensive power. Any intelligent BBEG is relatively free to walk away from the stealthing individual or if they're a caster(As most BBEG are), they can get around it with magic.
And heck, I haven't felt particularly awesome yet. Just managing to kill some mooks and avoid spooky single target effects due to total concealment.
Not necessarily. Heallcat Stealth is a relatively short feat chain, as you said you can pick it up at 6th level. And for 2 handed weapon users such a barbarians, and fighters they don’t really need much more than power attack, so they have extra feats to spare if they want. Especially fighters.
I’m not afraid of the rogue with hellcat stealth, his damage is finally on par with the fighter and barbarian without any extra tricks. I’m afraid of full attacks that are unanswerable by martial characters. If the answer to the problem is run away or get a spell caster it’s a bad answer. Especially since they can just follow you and hit you one attack at a time. Or you double move and still get followed until you quit double moving and then they hit you.It's a legitimate use of Stealth. Part of a movement =/= part of a Move Action. The Stealth description even goes so far as to specifically state the only situation in which using Stealth actually takes up a full Move Action:
Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action. However, using Stealth immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.Still, only the first attack would get Sneak Attack and with so many resources poured into Stealth, they probably don't have much spent in getting more damage out of a regular strike. I have played a lot of these characters, they can be pretty awesome, but still shouldn't be out-damaging your Fighter/Barb/Ranger. Additionally, it's not actually that hard to thwart Stealth.
Firstly: I would think you would appreciate that kind of ability. It's a predominantly martial class ability. It gives them a really nice set of mystical-ish tactics to work with.
Secondly: Seriously, it's not nearly as monumental a task to deal with as you seem to think. A doorway or hallway and a tower shield can give the run of the mill lvl 1 Fighter 100% protection from a guy with HiPS. Get creative with Spartan tactics, choke points. A torch would probably work pretty well too in most cases. Also, that readied action from a Fighter can easily take 50% of a Rogue based character's HP in one blow. Or better yet, use that readied action to do something more effective, hit the HiPS guy with Alchemist's Fire... if he's on fire I would say he won't be hiding very well. A Sneezing powerder or a Tanglefoot/burn bag would work well too. A cloak of Displacement, when you have the money, will also protect you from Sneak Attack.
So, the whole is a 5ft step thing acceptable is the whole question here. As I stated earlier there are two sides one side thinks it is and the other doesn’t. Just because the Stealth rules on have one example where the specify a move action is required on it’s own it is necessarily exhaustive. Let’s not forget that only after errata and FAQ does stealth even allow rogues to sneak attack, after years of the rules being not well written. And they are improved not, but they are not perfect. The rules team has never addressed the problem of Hide In Plain Sight or similar abilities and how they should function with 5ft step/movement.
Right now I have a Ranger who could benefit from this in a few levels. The idea that I could 5ft step and remain untargetable while making a full attack every round just seems absurd to me. It’s too good. Without a spell caster to counter it there just isn’t a good way to deal with it. Lets face it, pumping stealth to absurd levels is pretty easy if you if you care to focus on it at all. Meanwhile, it’s hard to justify why enemies have absurdly high perception scores without the use of powerful and expensive magic items that at least one enemy would need in every battle just to challenge the stealthy character.Also, its not specifically rogues that I’m worried about. It’s really just the burden as a GM of creating challenging encounters that remain challenging for the party without having to go to absurd lengths.
Edit: Also want to say sorry if this seems confusing or disjointed. I've been busy at work this morning and started to respond at like 9:30, then got interruptted. Then more at 11:30, then lunch. And finally got to finish now, so keep that in mind if not everything flows together.
A 5 foot step is "movement", but it does not take a move action. Since it is movement by the rules it is ok.
From the combat chapter:
"The only movement you can take during a full-round action is a 5-foot step before..."
Take 5-Foot Step
You can move 5 feet in any round when you don't perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can't take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can't take a 5-foot step in the same round that you move any distance.You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round.
You can only take a 5-foot-step if your movement isn't hampered by difficult terrain or darkness. Any creature with a speed of 5 feet or less can't take a 5-foot step, since moving even 5 feet requires a move action for such a slow creature.
You may not take a 5-foot step using a form of movement for which you do not have a listed speed.