Contract Devil

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The spell list impossible to sort by level is still a major issue, and it was reported in 2016.

It was pretty helpful for new and ancient players alike, it's saddening it's still not fixed.


I'd like to confirm something here, as my mostly caster shaman wants to throw some punches into battle with his friends.

I want to use Monstrous Physique to gain a 6-armed form, like the Calikang.

I glanced at some guides and threads at first for the forms, and I noticed they all said you keep your armor while on Monstrous Physique. Pretty nice... But by habit I checked the relevant rules to avoid outdated information.

And something caught my eyes:

Polymorphy rules wrote:
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body.[...] Other polymorph spells might be subject to this restriction as well, if they change you into a form that is unlike your original form (subject to GM discretion)

It wouldn't surprise me that going from 2 arms to 6 could be something that goes against the use of my armor, for example.

So, I'd like to confirm: Can I walk and punch as the mighty Calikang (or the even mightier gegenees) and still use my armor ?

all the polymorph rule text:

Polymorph: A polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature. While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +10 bonus on Disguise skill checks, they do not grant you all of the abilities and powers of the creature. Each polymorph spell allows you to assume the form of a creature of a specific type, granting you a number of bonuses to your ability scores and a bonus to your natural armor. In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses. If the form you choose grants these benefits, or a greater ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit. If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the lesser ability instead. Your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume. If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing. The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form.

In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropriate, and use your Strength modifier for determining damage bonuses.

If a polymorph spell causes you to change size, apply the size modifiers appropriately, changing your armor class, attack bonus, Combat Maneuver Bonus, and Stealth skill modifiers. Your ability scores are not modified by this change unless noted by the spell.

Unless otherwise noted, polymorph spells cannot be used to change into specific individuals. Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type. Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature.

When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form. While in such a form, you cannot cast any spells that require material components (unless you have the Eschew Materials or Natural Spell feat), and can only cast spells with somatic or verbal components if the form you choose has the capability to make such movements or speak, such as a dragon. Other polymorph spells might be subject to this restriction as well, if they change you into a form that is unlike your original form (subject to GM discretion). If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size.

While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form.

You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.

Ho, I should have take the time to read. Thank you.

I'll be a little greedy and ask what is supposed to be the last question:
Are the enhancement bonuses given after you make an attack roll with the weapon ?

To give an example, I have a monk with a +3 allying cestus and she can make 3 attacks with his FoB.

At the start of her turn, as the allying property indicate, she uses the weapon to give her unarmed strikes the +3 enhancement bonus, and uses her cestus only on the second attack, while her first, and third attack are unarmed attacks.

1. She only gains the +3 bonus on her fourth attack ?
2. She benefits from the +3 on all her unarmed strikes ?

IMHO, the first answer is the right one, but I'm not sure RAW can answer.

Chess Pwn wrote:
2nd point is a yes, as long as the total amount of bonuses doesn't go over 10 you're good.

Hmmm... It wouldn't surprise me you're right, but just in case, do you have any rule on that ? (I just began to be interested on that topic)

Chess Pwn wrote:
Also unarmed strike is all one weapon, regardless of what part of the body you attack with. here is the FAQ that says so.

Great catch, thank you. I didn't remember that one.

I just saw I totally forgot to link the reveling rules.

For reference: Allying weapon

APG wrote:

Allying: An allying weapon allows the wielder to transfer some or all of the weapon's enhancement bonus to one weapon being used by an ally of the wielder. The wielder must have line of sight to the intended ally. As a free action, at the start of her turn before using her weapon, the wielder chooses how to allocate her weapon's enhancement bonus. The bonus to the ally's weapon lasts until the allying weapon's wielder's next turn. The enhancement bonus from the allying weapon does not stack with the enhancement bonus on the ally's weapon (if any).

Faint transmutation; CL 5th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, magic weapon; Price +1 bonus.

Oddman80 wrote:
I believe that the language of when the decision must be made, is only there to ensure that the allying weapon cannot receive the bonus during the same round. [...]Additionally, there is nothing in the rules text of the allying property, that says you must use the allying weapon that round.

I didn't see it like that, and I can understand your view. But I did dig up a little more, and found something that feels like an end point: The FAQ about the defending weapon, which have the same "at the start of her turn before using her weapon" in the description.

We're totally on the same page about the AoMF not being a weapon and on the natural attack stuff, but I'm a bit less convinced about the "unarmed strike" being only one weapon. The unchained monk introduced the idea of kicks, head-butt and stuff, and you can two-weapon fighting with unarmed strikes (Well, that last one does not affect the monk anyway, as he can "TWF" a two-handed weapon).

Sidenote: I answered myself about my point 1 (no, you can't give special abilities, they're not enhanced bonuses). I'm still interested about a confirmation for my second point.

One of my player talked to me about a way to boost his monk: Using an allying weapon to improve his unarmed strikes.

RAW, it seems to work, but I don't want to overlook something.

With quick calculation, it's pretty neat: To gain a +5 equivalent bonus on his unarmed strikes (the AoMF cap), you make 53k of benefits.
- +5 Allying weapon: 72k
- AoMF alone: 125K

Now come 3 things I'm note totally sure to understand:

1. Can you give your special abilities (virtual enchantment bonus as flaming) to someone else with Allying ?
My player think so, but I don't. I'd like to confirm this.

2. Can you still gain benefits from special abilities (flaming, etc...) from an amulet of mighty fists while receiving bonus from an allying weapon on your unarmed strikes ?
I feel it's a yes, but it feels strong.
You don't have to take a +1 on an amulet of mighty fists to take special abilities, and it can go up to +5. Potentially an interesting way to get your +10 weapon in the end. Cost even a little less than a real +10 weapon.

3. What does "at the start of her turn before using her weapon" from the allying special ability means ?
Are you forced to make an attack with your allying weapon to use this ability ? I think so, but I want to confirm.

Thank you!

Joesi wrote:

I don't think anyone is forgetting that one needs to make a stealth check.

How does the fact that blindsight, blindsense, scent and tremorsense notice something make it okay? Saying that just says that it's significantly like invisibility. Also blindsense, tremorsense, and scent can't actually specifically spot the target, meaning they lose Dex to AC, have a 50% miss chance, and can't target at range. They just know what square the target is located in.

Just because you've been "detected", doesn't mean you can't sneak attack.

I agree. It's just that you can't full attack, and even attacking is pretty darn complicated:

You need to move to make your stealth check, so except if you play ranged or you have spring attack (and I'm not even sure you can use it that way), you'll have big time beginning and finishing the round in stealth. If you can't begin/finish the round in stealth, you'll probably finish clubbed.

It's not even a problem of how HIPS work, it's a freakin' problem of action economy.

HIPS gives nice things... But they are still pretty balanced usually (requirements, how to use it, number of counters, etc...).
In the end, I find it to be an extremely good out-of-combat ability with some uses in fight. But nothing a buff from your wizard bro couldn't get you for your level.

People seems to forget you still need to make a stealth check that beats the perception check of your foes.

Sure, a specialist in stealth will get some nice bonus who will cover them on that... But that doesn't mean he can't fail or can't be detected in any way.

- Scent still exist and indicate you when someone is at 5 or 10ft from you depending on the wind, and other senses can't be fooled.
- Blindsense still pinpoint you too, without perception check.
- Blindsight can't be fooled, no perception check required.
- Tremorsense always pinpoint you, no perception required.

etc etc...

They'll know you're here, even if you have total concealment from them (except for blindsight).

I can't understand how is it even a big deal. Yes, it's a better form of "greater invisibility", but it's often a pain in the staff to get it and to employ it.

To use stealth, you need to make a stealth check, which is still limited by this:

PRD, Stealth wrote:

It's impossible to use Stealth while attacking, running, or charging.

Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action. However, using Stealth immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.

Full attacks are over with this, and except with spring attack, your location is nearly known. Still not sure where to attack ? Just area blast the bastard with things that don't use reflex saves. Stinking cloud for example.

Or simply use glitterdust/faery fire/a pack of flour and club it to death.

Cuuniyevo wrote:


If your players roll badly on their knowledge checks, they may never know the significance of this plot point or that item. They may never know about these NPCs who are related to each other and how their past has lead to the current situation. They may never find the local inn or tavern, because they failed their Knowledge: Local check and now must wander up and down the lone street in your little hamlet[...]

I often tell my players to use the "take 10" rules, but for what you said, if they just rolled badly, they still can search for more informations, using the diplomacy skill.

If you don't beat the knowledge skill, you still can "reroll" with a diplomacy check to directly find the answer, or to ask for someone who might know (you can even make a knowledge skill to try to find that person).

It can take time, but it's the price for rolling badly or not investing enough points I suppose.

DM_Blake wrote:
As far as I can tell, the shield was damaged by direct HP damage, not a "condition", so the only way to repair it is to actually repair the damage.

If it was a sunder attempt, the shield should be at 19 HP.

But here, he blocks damages with his shield using Sacrificial shield, meaning the shield takes the damages. Is the shield take any damages when using sacrificial shield:
Otherwise, it gains the broken condition, even if the damage was not enough to give it the broken condition under other circumstances.
Does that mean if you cast a spell that breaks a wepon on a weapon with less then 1/2 it's hp -1, it acutally goes up?

My player just read it too. I assumed the broken condition given by an effect "inflicted" 1/2 +1HP of the item to it. The "considered as" is just perturbing. IMHO, RAI is suppose to inflict damages.

Potential FAQ stuff too, more likely to happen because of guns and misfire.

I'm not sure how to put it better to make a FAQ-valid question.

What it's all about: One of my player wants to make a mythic paladin using the sacrificial shield mythic path, which gives the broken condition when the shield is damaged (I feel it's the RAI). We will say my player has a heavy steel shield (hardness 10, hp 20).
Under the "Broken Condition and Sundering" sidebar (p.149 of UCombat), it states that :

If a weapon gains the broken condition from an effect, that weapon is considered to have taken damage equal to half its hit points +1.

So, if I'm right, if my player use sacrificial shield to block an attack that should deal 11 damages, the shield take 1 damage, gain the broken condition, and is now considered at 9HP.

The main question is related to another part of the sidebar:


This damage is repaired either by something that addresses the effect that granted the weapon the broken condition (like quick clear in the case of firearm misfires or the Field Repair feat in the case of weapons with the fragile quality) or by the normal method for recovering item hit points (detailed in the broken condition description).

When an effect that grants the broken condition is removed, the weapon regains the hit points it lost when the broken condition was applied.
Damage done by an attack against a weapon cannot be repaired by an effect that removes the broken condition.

My player argue that he can clear the "effect" by just repairing 1 hp on the shield (the damages absorbed by the shield), and the shield will be totally fixed, while I don't think it qualify as "removing" the effect that grant the shield his broken condition.

The question is rather complex, and I don't want to be unfair. Can you help me out ?

the entire sidebar:

There are two ways for an item to gain the broken condition.

One is for the weapon to take damage from an attack or attacks that is in excess of half the weapon’s hit points. The other is for the weapon to gain that condition from some effect. Both firearms and fragile weapons include effects that grant a weapon the broken condition (Core Rulebook 565) without the weapon explicitly taking damage.
If a weapon gains the broken condition from an effect, that weapon is considered to have taken damage equal to half its hit points +1. This damage is repaired either by something that addresses the effect that granted the weapon the broken condition (like quick clear in the case of firearm misfires or the Field Repair feat in the case of weapons with the fragile quality) or by the normal method for recovering item hit points (detailed in the broken condition description).
When an effect that grants the broken condition is removed, the weapon regains the hit points it lost when the broken condition was applied.
Damage done by an attack against a weapon cannot be repaired by an effect that removes the broken condition.

Wow, so much replies, yet so few FAQ click. It's no use to continue arguing here, only the dev' can give us a final answer. And you know how to get those answer guys: FAQ clicks!

chaoseffect wrote:
The fact that a shield can explicitly be enchanted as a weapon in addition to as a shield seems to contradict that sentiment.

Something specifically explained in the shield description of the armor section. I can even see it in favor of my reading.

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Brain in a Jar wrote:

Here in the description it clearly mentions that when used as a weapon it is a One Handed, Bludgeoning, Martial Weapon.

None of those qualifiers stop it from being used with two hands to gain 1.5 STR mod.

So unless that text includes a sentence that specifically says it can't be used with two hands, it can regardless of if you like it or not.

The text is not written that way. It's not written "when you shield bash, your shield is a one-handed martial bludgeoning weapon", but "For the purpose of penalties on attack rolls, treat a heavy shield as a one-handed weapon."

There's a difference. By my reading, a shield bash is like a "special attack" you must make with your shield (no joke!), and is calculated as a one-handed attack for feats and such.

I'll repeat it: I'm not against a 2-handed shield bash, it's not game breaking and all, but I'm still not convinced it's RAW.


NikolaiJuno wrote:
Do you mean two hand or two weapon, because two weapon with a shield is definitely a thing. There's feats and a Ranger style for it.

I was tired, wrote the wrong stuff. I meant using shields as a two-handed weapon.

One might argue you can't two-handed a shield because a shield is not a real weapon:

Heavy Shield, Ultimate Equipment wrote:
Shield Bash Attacks: You can bash an opponent with a heavy shield. See "heavy shield" on the Martial Weapons table for the damage dealt by a shield bash with a heavy shield. Used this way, a heavy shield is a martial bludgeoning weapon. For the purpose of penalties on attack rolls, treat a heavy shield as a one-handed weapon

The light shield has the same reference, but to be used as a light weapon.

You seems to treat only like that for the purpose of penalties on attack rolls, probably for TWF.

I didn't had any problem with TWFing a shield before, but I might be inclined to say it's a houserule now I checked.

The Detect Magic description needs a link to the Spellcraft skill.

PRD wrote:
3rd Round: The strength and location of each aura. If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, you can make Knowledge (arcana) skill checks to determine the school of magic involved in each. (Make one check per aura: DC 15 + spell level, or 15 + 1/2 caster level for a nonspell effect.) If the aura emanates from a magic item, you can attempt to identify its properties (see Spellcraft).

I knew Magic Lineage, not the other one, but we don't use Companion feats in our circle of friends.

I'm not sure a magus can use spell perfection, it seems to me you need to be a spontaneous caster (speaking about spell slot and casting time), but it's late and I probably need to sleep. And I'm not sure about the 9th level slot limitation on a magus.

But an arcanist can absolutly. The blade adept archetype with a heavy pick and the spell strike Adept Exploit became even more potent.

At high level, I already see some scary stuff incoming. Huuuuu!

Holy cow! That's quite the catch!
With Spell perfection, I already see some magus with scythes coming to wreck the house.

But I'm very interested in those "metamagic reducing" feats. Can you provide links please ?


I would at least some opinions on this. An FAQ could be nice too.

6 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

I was reading the ARG, and I stumbled upon the Damnation Stride's duration.

Damnation Stride wrote:

Damnation Stride

School: conjuration (teleportation) [fire]
Level: sorcerer/wizard 5, summoner 4, witch 5
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Target: self and creatures within a 10-foot-radius burst (see below)
Duration: 1 minutes/level
Saving Throw: Reflex half, see text; Spell Resistance: no

This spell functions like dimension door, except you leave behind a burst of fire. Choose one corner of your starting square. A 10-foot-radius burst of flame explodes from that corner the moment you leave, dealing 4d6 points of fire damage (Reflex negates).

I made some digging, to check if it was typo, but as this post suggest, it is in fact not.

The poster's suggestion is that the spell can let you use a Dimensional Door each round in compensation to the +1 spell level and the "self only" use. Still, it lacks clarity IMHO.

Furthermore, if someone manage to caught how the spell is supposed to work, I'm curious to know if that spell would work with the Dimensional Agility, and how, as the duration would be quite interesting.

They *could*, but it would require GM approval.

RAW, you got the monster from the Bestiary list, no modif'. That's probably how it is handled in PFS.
For a homegame, you can try to convince your GM to houserule this to "pimp your pet" and have the raddest familiar in all Golarion.

Clearly, it improve greatly some familiars. Something some GM might be hesitating with.

Edit: If your GM hesitate, propose him to allow it if you go on a special quest to find the creature or a special ritual, etc etc...

Thank you for your clarifications, it seems he finally made his mind.

I think he was a little scared because I'm an half-orc inquisitor, so without optimizing it I got a nice +33 to demoralize at level 13. With Blistering invective and Lookout for the action economy, it's actually quite potent because it's hard to up this DC (even if in the end, I got -5 on the successive check), so I don't think there is any foe from my CR range I can't demoralize and frighten. Except of course for immunities (the recent debate on the immunity to fear is quite interesting).

boring7 wrote:

Edit: Ninja'd.

Yes Adaptive is much better than Agile or Exceptional Pull, but you get what you can get. Not everyone allows Ultimate Equipment, and having multiple paths to the same outcome is not necessarily a bad thing.

Although I wonder, if Exceptional Pull also gave you a flat +1 to damage (as if your strength were two higher), would it be worth it, overpowered, or still inferior?

I would really be amused if someone allowed a Companion Book and not Ultimate Combat, to be honest.

For the flat +1, it would be acceptable. It's one of the few archery feats I know that doesn't ask for Point Blank Shot, but you still need to invest in Deadly Aim. Plus, you need to have +3 to BBA, so all in all it's interesting if you're a fighter IMO.

I know this has come in some threads, but my GM is currently skeptical that disheartening display can let me frighten a creature I already demoralized.

Advanced Class Guide wrote:

Disheartening Display (Combat)

Your show of prowess further demoralizes others.

Prerequisites: Dazzling Display, Weapon Focus, base attack bonus +6, proficiency with chosen weapon.

Benefit: When you successfully use Dazzling Display against any shaken, frightened, or panicked opponents, their fear increases by one step. An already panicked creature demoralized by this feat cowers. Once affected by this feat, a creature cannot be affected by it again (by you or anyone else) for 24 hours.

His argument is that Paizo is usually against any form of stacking from a same source, and it would be strange they accept this one.

Moreover, he thinks the feat shouldn't bypass this line of the intimidate skill:

Prd wrote:
Using demoralize on the same creature only extends the duration; it does not create a stronger fear condition.

I think this is the point of the feat: to bypass this. He think this is to scale with some powers that don't usually scale with anything, like Horrific Visage from the Accursed sorcerer bloodline, or the Frightful Charger bloodrager bloodline power.

I have some arguments as well: Number of feats involved (minimum 3), number of actions to make that works (normally 2 full-round actions), usually high DC to beat, creature types immune, and so on, but I'd like your opinion.

Depend on the ruling, a bladebound magus can be REALLY interesting to sunder enemy's equipment. Ho My!

I feel it shouldn't be a language-based effect. Dazzling display isn't about using words, but swinging your sword (or any other weapon you took successively weapon focus and Dazzling display for).

Making it apply a fear condition seems a better workaround, as BBT propose.

A FAQ on applying bonus to saving throw against fear effect on demoralize DC doesn't seems to be a bad thing too, even if intimidating is kinda hard already.

I would say that if you have the type, you can pretty much take it. Same with Racial Heritage. I rule it like that at least. Same for drows, I allow them to take elven feats.

I would like to hear some other people on that too.

Playing an half-orc inquisitrice who plan to fear every living (or not) thing she can, I'm really interested.

Just for recollection: Bonus to saving throw against fear effect don't apply to the demoralize DC, am I right ? I always felt it wrong.

Fun trivia: There's nothing in the rules that says that casting a [Good] spell is a good-aligned action, or that casting an [Evil] spell is an evil-aligned action. So actually, the alignment-spell rules are even more silly.

Well, it can be extrapolated by the fact that good deities prevent good casters from using Evil spells, for example.

IIRC, casting an evil spell is an evil act in PFS (and probably in Golarion, even outside of PFS), and back in 3.5, I remember books about it too.

But you seems to be right. Core there is nothing on this.
Still, It sounds wrong to me that a Good character use an Evil mean to accomplish anything without any downside.


I still love the poster child for confusing spells: Infernal Healing, since it has the [Evil] descriptor.

So, explain how healing is evil?

Well, it's not like you let evil power take over your flesh to heal you. :)

Remember it's a spell given to his follower by Asmodeus.

For reference, my friend wants to make a Gnome Gunslinger (Experimental Gunsmith)/Alchemist (Grenadier), who shoot with a gun. He strongly consider taking a level of Master Chemist to add some fun.

For the artokus fire, we don't use Companion stuff, so it seems to lower the amount of damages he can get from the ability.

I like vital strike a lot myself. I argued a lot with my friend when he made his cohort trophy hunter, and was pretty more in favor of Vital Strike.
Still, as he pointed, you need a far more feats to keep it interesting.

I think both are great, just need to be addressed differently.

Anyway, even when you don't build around them, I think those deeds are pretty nice. Not the best around maybe, but still. And because you have dead shot "free", you know you can take some special bullets, and use them effectively.

But I'm concerned about your siege engine. Can you use deed with siege engine ? It seems silly. IIRC, you can only use them with firearms, and even gunpowder-based engine siege are not considered firearms.

Don't know the artokus's fire. Could you give me a link ?
Anyway, you made me discover the hybridization funnel. I find it highly interesting.
For AA, you're probably right.

Still, I think if it could be used all the time, I don't see why bother with the normal alchemist anymore, the trade would be totally amazing.
The most significant downside is you lose brew potion, you still can take it easily with your own feats.

With the hybridizing funnel, it's even more interesting.
I feel it can be an amazing ability for ambush, when you know where and when fights will break, because you still have 1 minute to use your infused weapons. At low level, your damage input at range can augment considerably.

ElementalXX wrote:
Lighting reload is quite underwhelming for a level 11 deed. Is like when samurai get ranged feats when obviously almost none of his class features work at range. Anyway most of the deeds are terrible (looking at you deadshot, how much i wish this was worth using) so this is following a pattern.

for the samurai, it gives versatility. You can't always go in melee. It's nice to have some ranged viable options, especially when flying monsters become quite common.

For the deadshot, it amuses me because I think it is pretty cool. It's a potential better version of a vital strike, and it costs far less money (one thing that IMO cripple the class, the price of ammunitions) than a full-attack. Enchant a couple of ammunitions with very specific enchantments, like ghost touch, bane, or else, and use that deed to beat the crap out of your target. Great way to make use of a Improved critical feat too.

And it's interesting to non-gunslingers*, or to pick up a firearm you didn't specialized into to make virtual full-attack with lighting reload deeds. When your GM disarm or sunder you, it's good to have that.

*We have a cohort ranger (Trophy hunter) in one of my group that rely on this dead to shoot everything at sight. It's far less likely to blow up, thing that happened too much time before.

My principal question is simple: do you need to have the alchemical weapon in hands to use the alchemical weapon (su) of the grenadier ?

cnetarian wrote:
nothing is said about the alchemical concoction having to be in a hand either, so presumably it could be in your backpack at home.

Even if it was in your own backpack, the fact it's an Su means it doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. So it would be simpler to retrieve + apply the alchemical weapon than to just retrieve it from your bag. That's part of what bothers me.

For the archetypes, I was pretty sure they were bounds to the race they appeared in. It seems to be I was wrong. I probably should have read the "how to use this book?" again. Silly me!

For the Int to damages, it was discussed a lot, and I hoped it was settled.

cnetarian wrote:
AA Stuff

I'll recommend AA to my friend, it's a brillant idea.

Hmmm, I think he uses the PFS field guide. I should check, but IIRC, they are totally similar anyway.

It seems they kept the same writing on the double-barreled pistol, which differ from the db-musket and db-shotgun.

Still, when they mention "attacks", I read it as what an attack mean for them: an attack roll. Like when they talk about sneak attacks and stuff. It seems pretty limpid to me (no offense).

For the db-pistol, it's strange, because they don't mention what action they are talking about.

Anyway, they completely messed up in UCombat IMO, you just have to read about the eastern weapons, or think about the piece meal armors. I was really upset when they didn't correct those strange wordings for UEquiment.

Hopefully, I heard they will make an errata for UEquiment soon.

For the "useless" deed, you can use it with firearms you didn't take the rapid reload feat for. Or, if you like to snipe with vital strike, you can forgo the rapid reload feat and just rely on that deed.


A friend of mine wants to make a gnome alchemist (grenadier), but I maybe found a flaw either in his build, or in the wording of the ability.

Indeed, Alchemical weapon let you use a move action (then swift, then free action) to imfuse a weapon or a piece of ammunition with an alchemical weapon. Cool stuff.
The problem is, I suspect you need to have the alchemical weapon in hand before using the ability, because nothing is told about drawing it.

It doesn't seem unreasonable to me, considering the trade. It makes me think about how poison are hard to use in fight.

Alchemical Weapon:
At 2nd level, a grenadier can infuse a weapon or piece of ammunition with a single harmful alchemical liquid or powder, such as alchemist's fire or sneezing powder, as a move action.

This action consumes the alchemical item, but transfers its effect to the weapon in question. The alchemical item takes full effect on the next creature struck by the weapon, but does not splash, spread, affect additional targets, or benefit from any other effects that specifically affect splash weapons. Any extra damage added is not doubled on a critical hit. The alchemical treatment causes no harm to the weapon treated, and wears off 1 minute after being applied if no blow is struck. Infusing a new alchemical item also removes the effect of any alchemical liquid or powder previously applied with this ability. At 6th level, a grenadier can use her alchemical weapon ability as a swift action. At 15th level, this ability becomes a free action.

This ability replaces poison resistance.

Didn't find a clear answer to this, so I'm curious.

PS: With the Grenadier archetype attributed to hobgoblins with th new Monster codex, does that mean it's a hobgoblin-only archetype now ? I'm confused.

Edit/PS2: Was there any official answer on the int modifier applied to the imfused weapon ?

Tarantula wrote:
Provoking is not directly mentioned.

... yeah, so ?

I think I missed your point.

Tarantula wrote:
It says nothing about provoking.

It does, if you read the table. The action "Retrieve a stored item" provokes attacks of opportunity while "Draw a weapon" doesn't.

So when your object is "weapon-like" and in easy reach, you can use the "Draw a weapon" action, and you don't provoke.

Because while drawing a non-weapon-like objects incur an attack of opportunity, weapon-like objects do not if they are in easy reach?

Both interpretations of the text can be correct IMO, and only a dev can give a final answer.
But for rule consistency with quickdraw and for concern with the action economy, I feel like a wand is not intended to be retrieved as a free action while moving.

I'm in for switching names.

Mediums are often pictured as interacting with "ghost stuff".
Meanwhile, the word spiritualist is, as far as I know, far less used, and free of those cultural references who end up messing up with our expectation of the class.

I'm on the "restrictive" side of the debate. I remember a dev talking about quickdraw that magic items and alchemical objects were excluded because in a matter of balance, spells are far more effective for less actions. I still do need to find his post.

I always ruled it so you can only draw a weapon (a true one) as a free action as part of a movement.

On the item "accessibility", remember it's not meant to be unlimited and for everything, here's the most forgotten but used item of all time (except regular clothes):

"Ultimate Equipment, Gear, Adventuring Gear wrote:


Price 5 SP; Weight —

This leather belt is worn over one shoulder and runs diagonally across the chest and back. It has small loops or pouches for holding eight objects the size of a flask or small dagger. You can use the "retrieve a stored item" action to take an item from a bandolier. You can wear up to two bandoliers at the same time (any more than this and they get in each other's way and restrict your movement).

I ruled scrolls could be tied to it, but "beware unforeseen consequences", as I like intelligent enemies, I consider scrolls are fragile against water (What would be the use of the scroll case ?) and as I did read about rolling a 1 on a saving throw.
Core Rulebook, Magic wrote:

Items Surviving after a Saving Throw: Unless the descriptive text for the spell specifies otherwise, all items carried or worn by a creature are assumed to survive a magical attack. If a creature rolls a natural 1 on its saving throw against the effect, however, an exposed item is harmed (if the attack can harm objects). Refer to Table: Items Affected by Magical Attacks: Items Affected by Magical Attacks. Determine which four objects carried or worn by the creature are most likely to be affected and roll randomly among them. The randomly determined item must make a saving throw against the attack form and take whatever damage the attack dealt.

If the selected item is not carried or worn and is not magical, it does not get a saving throw. It simply is dealt the appropriate damage.

It may seem a little bit of a nitpick, but I give the same options to my players: My BBEG have bandoliers or similar, not all of their magic items are accessible, etc etc...

I began to be this "strict" when I asked a player to describe himself while a group of foes tried to assess his fighting skills. The discussion went then about sundering, pickpocketing, and other matters I can't even remember.

If you want accessibility, to go farther than just 2 wrist sheaths, the following tricks are good too:

Objects compartments:
Ultimate Equipment, Gear, Adventuring Gear wrote:

Hollowed Pommel

Price 5 gp; Weight —

Depending on the weapon, a hollow pommel may hold something as large as a flask or as small as a rolled piece of paper. Detecting a hollow pommel requires a DC 15 Perception check.

Holy symbol, compartment
Price +5 gp; Weight —

Designed and approved by a member of the appropriate religion, this modification to a holy symbol creates a secret compartment large enough to hold a potion vial. Detecting the compartment requires a DC 20 Perception check.

Holy Symbol, Flask
Price +10 gp; Weight —

This version of a standard holy symbol is oversized and has a watertight compartment that can hold 1 pint (the same volume as a flask of holy water). Adventurers normally use the compartment to hold holy water or alcohol. A holy symbol flask is not meant for you to throw at enemies and is not fragile like a flask or vial. Like using holy water on incorporeal opponent, you unstopper the flask and pour the contents onto an adjacent target. Detecting the compartment requires a successful DC 10 Perception check.

False-bottomed scabbard
Price 45 gp; Weight 1 lb.

The space at the bottom of this sword scabbard is just large enough to hold a potion flask. Some are accessed from the outside; others open on the inside with a secret catch at the top end. Finding the secret compartment requires a DC 25 Perception check, or DC 20 if you can compare the sword's length to that of the scabbard.

Some (as I) may argue that you still have to use a move action to "draw" your scabbard, and I have the impression that few clerics or oracles are played as pure casters with their holy symbol always in hand, but it's still pretty useful IMO.
Just be aware that some dirty nicknames can randomly be heard when you begin to "suck your sword" in the middle of a battle.

Thank you! I'm not a PFS player, but I use their ruling from times to times. It helps!

Great to hear they will rework the Ultimate Equipment too!

I would require a hero point to try that kind of stuff.

I'm like Rynjin, but maybe because I have some players that like rules consistency and are ready to use all the houserules to their full potential. Still, as some said, it's a creative try from the player.

I don't want to see that kind of actions everytime, so hero points seems to be the go for me.

Ascalaphus wrote:
It works now; the UE version has been revoked, and the AA version (1H slashing) is now the official scorpion whip.

Can you give us a reference ? There's no FAQ, and I'm really interested to have a last ruling on that freaky weapon.

Well, no need to speak more about the summoner IMO.

I feel the dev should make a real step away from the summoner with the spiritualist to avoid other comparisons with it.

With more touch spells and a modifications to the spell-likes should already make the class feel a little better.

The more I think about it, the more I feel the Medium is the best class to take leadership, so you can try that bold move once and hand over your character to the GM.

You won't gain a lot from capricious battle, as it is an immediate action.

Edit: wow, didn't realize it was for both a foe or you. So. Freakin. Cool. I love the bunny!

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