so I really would like to try out the paladin class and currently we are playing Skulls and Shackles. I proposed the idea of a paladin of Besmara to the DM before we started playing this adventure path and it did not bother him (he has a paladin of Besmara that will be coming up soon) but it did bother some other players. from what I have read on these wonderful message boards a paladin simply has a set of codes that he must follow. what I want is some advise on the build and play style of a Paladin of Besmara. Any archetype or multi-classing is cool. thank you
As far as I know, Besmara isn't normally an allowed deity for paladins, as she's too far off the Good/Law axis.
But a paladin would likely be focused on a sort of "Pirates code", shipboard combat, and helping sailors deal with sea monsters.
As for build, her favored weapon is a rapier, which you don't necessarily need to use. Feel free to pick up a greatsword or whatever any other paladin would do. However, if you want thematics, consider dipping into Swashbuckler, which is also conveniently Charisma based.
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You will be dipping deep into the realm of house-rules and liberal interpertations to make it work. By the rules a paladin must be LG, and likely wouldn't really respect and revere a CN goddess of piracy and strife.
Now depending on what your group likes you may go with some other variation of the paladin class, like some third party CG variant that values the freedom of the open ocean and works for the betterment of all through inspiring valor and good neighborly sea ethics, but the way it stands with the rules and flavor an Antipaladin of Besmira fits better than a Paladin of Besmira
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An Anti-paladin would serve Besmara rules wise. While the alignment is CE, your DM could change that to CN for the campaign and change some of the abilities to be more chaotic (replace good for law, evil for chaos). Think someone has a homebrew like this on d20pfsrd.
This shouldn't bother the other players so much.
There's a "pirates code" listed in the "Pirates of the Inner Sea" player companion. I think Captain Jack Sparrow is a "good" example of a follower of the Pirate Codex.
I also agree with Sunset Psychosis, with the choice of weapon and the idea to dip into Swashbuckler.
when I get the book Sunday I will look into both the warpriest and the swashbuckler. we are a shockingly good group with this adventure path and I don't think the antipaladin would be well received, like at all we are very nice sailors it shocked the DM that no one went for the actual pirate character. I will bring the subject back up with the DM. thank you all
You're in for a ride considering the players guide specifically advises against playing a Paladin in Skull and Shackles. Unless your DM is comfortable houseruling and maybe a little homebrewing, seconding advice to just play a Cleric, Inquisitor, or Warpriest.
that was the class I originally wanted but let a friend rage and talk me out of it even though the DM was fine with it. he has a paladin of besmara npc coming up. I will look into the warpriest soon and talk with him soon. though a paladin would fit with the rather odd group I have.
Paladin of Besmara: Paladin's Code
- The sea is my home. I will embrace it and devote my life to its ebb and flow, cleansing the shores of the debris of this world.
- My crew is my blood. My captain is my mother, my crewmates are brothers, sisters and children, and I shall honor and protect them.
- I will take to the seas to spread the faith of my goddess. I shall not turn away from the face of danger, for many are the peoples of the sea that must hear Besmara's word, and no few of them make their homes beneath the waves.
- In battle, I shall be as the hammering of the waves upon the rocks of the shore, and all who stand against me shall be swept out to the bottom of the ocean to drown.
- Life is to be lived as freely as the currents flow. There is no joy, nor is there honor, in denying oneself the pleasures of this world. However, if an action does not profit me or my blood, it is neither wise nor righteous and I shall raise no hand against another when it shall be turned against my crew.
- The bounty of the sea is the goddess' greatest gift. As the sea giveth, and as the sea taketh, so too does the faithful of Besmara, but one never takes more than the giver can afford to lose.
- The waves are my mistress, and I shall favor the goddess with my most precious treasures and receive her favor in return.
- Even the smallest of treasures wrested from the sea are sacred; I shall always keep them close, for they are the favor of Besmara and without them, I am lost.
Disclaimer: Besmara is an appropriate goddess for antipaladins, not paladins. However, as the original poster was looking for a code of conduct, I've cobbled one together.
Bodhizen thank very much that is brilliant. and I know Bemsara isn't the idea or even legal deity for a paladin but the DM found it to be hilarious and if we can make him laugh it is generally allowed. and he did make a paladin of Besmara npc who the character I want to replace with was rescued by. to everyone else I am very aware it isn't a legal deity this is how I ended up with a druid I am just not enjoying. I hae to wait a few more days to read up on the Warpriest. I need something very sturdy because of the witch cohort I will have, the DM promised to break my character and he looked so happy. it is pure morbid curiosity about the witch. the paladin/warpriest/whatever I pick has to protect the witch so it need to be very sturdy in many areas and needs to be fun to play above everything else. I will happily take hits else where for entertainment. but I have a chance to get a new charater and my original goal was a paladin of besmara. and to Bigdaddyjug I have never looked into the inquisitor so I will do that.
You could also run this variant by your DM. It is from 3.5 but it is completely compatible with PF. Personally I see no reason to not run a CG paladin with the base paladin abilities and a different code, but the variant provides an appropriate mechanical difference.
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A Paladin of Besmara is not something that should exist.
Based on my experience playing Skull and Shackles, players will often kill and steal from those around you, you are pirates. The adventure path expects you to.
Piracy is antithetical to a Paladins existence. This is why the player's guide recommends against it.
Law and good are really not supported by the life of a pirate.
If you want to play a holy warrior in Skull and Shackles, an appropriate Cleric/Oracle/Warpriest/Inquisitor can do the job. Depending on the level of spellcasting and marital prowess you want you can find something to mimic the paladin the way you want.
Ask yourself, do you really want to be a holy warrior of Besmara, like a paladin is a holy warrior of law and good? Or do you just want the mechanical benefits of being paladin because you know they'll be useful to you?
or a Paladin of Asmodeus. >_>
Paladin of Besmara really seems like a bad fit with Besmara all about staying true to her few guidelines until it doesn't profit her anymore including turning on/dumping allies. Really not much of a code available to follow.
I've had a cleric of Besmara, but it falls short of what I want. Really wish clerics had 4 skills points and class skills were deity dependent as this really makes sense to me (Since you're home gaming it you could look into that). I love the chaos fun you can have with some of the domain abilities, but that's really the biggest thing I find that feels like it connects my character to Besmara.
I looked at Warpriest, but the flavor doesn't feel that great to me for a Besmara worshiper.
I couldn't find any archetypes for Cleric or Warpriest to seal the deal either. Guess I should verify Inquisitor doesn't either, but I just don't see Besmara having Inquisitors as that really doesn't seem like her deal.
I am considering the option others have mentioned which is cleric with a dip(s) into Swashbuckler, but that really weakens a Cleric. Not sure about the synergy with a Warpriest.
I wound up playing a Paladin of Besmara myself for a bit. The GM had already loosened up the alignment restrictions on Paladin to "any good," which honestly works fine. Even so my CG character did have a code of conduct, or at least a list of restrictions. Most of it was the same stuff any devotee of Besmara would follow/enforce. As a crew/party, we went a little stronger on the anti-slavery angle, to the point that we wound up being almost more freedom fighters than pirates, preying pretty much exclusively on slaver ships. It worked out well enough.
the group I am with is already headed that way. even though I have said the DM is cool with it pending a few modification we would have to work out many people seem greatly against it. I really like the roleplay options of this class. yes I do want to be more durable but I mostly want to have fun playing the character and I am going to be gimped from the witch I have to protect, its gonna be fun. both the witch and the unknown class have a bond to the NPC Paladin of Besmara which is why I posted this question on how it should be played. I would have had a paladin to learn from. though Claxon mentioned the oracle and that could be a great way to tie my character to the witch and pray the DM has mercy (he really doesn't). I might talk to him about that one too. To my knowledge the Paladin doesn't have to directly follow the law but they have to adhere to a strict moral code which I would have if I pick the paladin.
I'm waiting until next week when someone puts up a request for Paladins of Rovagug.
that would be a very confused paladin, could be insane and thinks its a paladin. but in this case it would be without question an antipaladin. its cute how one question leads people in weird directions. Besmara = Rovagug = Asmodeus. crazy just crazy :) I never seem to pick a build people like or think is allowed in a fantasy game. AAARRRRRGGGGGG!!!!!!!!! I just wanna do things!!!!!
I shouldn't post when im tired that was less amusing and more whining. my bad I just wanna do awesome things is all. and paladins are awesome!
I might give Warpriest a go instead of Paladin. Antipaladins seem too harsh for what you want, and Paladins don't make sense alignment-wise. You could go for a chaotic-good warpriest of Besmara to incorporate the kindness factor.
or a Paladin of Asmodeus. >_>
I actually wrote a code of conduct for an antipaladin of Asmodeus. It's on the boards here.
I shouldn't post when im tired that was less amusing and more whining. my bad I just wanna do awesome things is all. and paladins are awesome!
There are so many awesome things you can do that don't involve trying to make Paladins something they aren't.
I say have fun with your Piratical Paladin and forgot all the not-funhavers. If your DM's cool with it, what's there to worry about?
You could have a paladin that has besmara as his patron deity (of course he would be lying to himself but that's another matter) but no; a CN deity (who, like most Golarion deities, leans on CE) can't have an order of paladins.
no seems to be the most common answer followed by warpriest. in the end though I will let my group decide if most of them are against it I wont do it because I don't want to be an a**. if warpriest doesn't give the flavor I want I think I will go oracle for the truly gimped and join the child witch in the land of the my DM looked way to happy. or I guess I could go full martial, we don't actually have one of those.
An Inquisitor would probably work better for this than a paladin. They have a lot of abilities that are similar to paladins that they can fulfill the same role. The only thing they are lacking is the ability to heal others. This is more than made up for by the versatility of the class.
They also get a lot more skills, including some important skills. I have not played skulls and shackles, but I would assume having bluff, stealth and perception is going to be pretty useful.
As an inquisitor your job is to hunt down those who offend your god. I can see an inquisitor of Besmara hunting down those who betray the pirate’s code. As a paladin your job is to hunt down evil, which most pirates are. Some of those who break the pirate’s code may do it because they are good. This leaves you with a situation where your paladin abilities do not work against the very people you should be hunting.
Mechagamera that is an interesting idea and I may try that route
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Again I ask
Ask yourself, do you really want to be a holy warrior of Besmara? Or do you just want the mechanical benefits of being paladin because you know they'll be useful to you?
Because the first can be represented by ranger/cleric/oracle/war priest and possibly others. But a paladin is a mechanical set of powers.
If your character wants to call themselves a paladin of Besmara fine, but they aren't really. Or at least they shouldn't be.
Separate the mechanics from the role play and you should see what you're really after.
Are you after the sweet powers? Or after the feel of a holy warrior?
So far, I'm inclined to think you just want the paladins (admittedly awesome) powers repackaged into something they weren't intended to go with so you can use it the way you want.
But part of the point of paladin is that it's supposed to be restricted. It's not supposed to be easy to play, or available to every type of character and campaign.
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Years ago (when the Core Rulebook was the only hardcover), I ran a a "paladin of Gorum." He was a cleric/barbarian. His "smite" was really rage. His alignment was CN.
You could do something like that, but with Beamara.
Note for a pirate, a cutlass is a thematic weapon. Cutlass stats are exactly the same as a scimitar, so only the most churlish GM wouldn't let you go the Dervish Dance route.
Call me a churlish GM, but I wouldn't allow it.
I am very much Not A Fan of Dex-to-damage in general.
Dex already provides so much (AC, Ref saves, Init mod, large number of Dex-based skills, etc), that I think it's unbalancing to to allow Dex-to-damage without very heavy restrictions.
In my game, the Dervish Dance feat is a highly-guarded combat style that's a secret held by the Church of Sarenrae. (It's widely known within the Cult of the Dawnflower.) Scimitar is integral to the style, and you can't use it with any other weapon. Worship of Sarenrae is a prerequisite, as is the feat Skill Focus: Perform (dance). You also need to have a story as to how you learned it (whether that's in back story or role played in-game.)
That's how I run it. YMMV.
Again I ask
Ask yourself, do you really want to be a holy warrior of Besmara? Or do you just want the mechanical benefits of being paladin because you know they'll be useful to you?Because the first can be represented by ranger/cleric/oracle/war priest and possibly others. But a paladin is a mechanical set of powers.
If your character wants to call themselves a paladin of Besmara fine, but they aren't really. Or at least they shouldn't be.
Separate the mechanics from the role play and you should see what you're really after.
Are you after the sweet powers? Or after the feel of a holy warrior?
So far, I'm inclined to think you just want the paladins (admittedly awesome) powers repackaged into something they weren't intended to go with so you can use it the way you want.
But part of the point of paladin is that it's supposed to be restricted. It's not supposed to be easy to play, or available to every type of character and campaign.
I have yet to play a holy warrior. mechanically I love the paladins abilities. and as much as I want this build I think I am going to hold off on the paladin, maybe my group will run Wrath of the Righteous later and that is a great campaign for a paladin. the paladin of Besmara was just the first character concept I had for the skulls and shackles and I was wanting option's outside of the group I play with which I have received and I am very grateful for. I love these message boards. I do understand that the paladin isn't supposed to be an easy class to play I was kind of hoping for a loop hole. but I have received a few other good ideas. I will look into the warpriest once I have the book and if that doesn't fit what I want I will probably go oracle or ranger. I do have one or two ideas for them. Thank you all this was a lot of help. and should I assume Cayden Cailean is not a legal deity for a paladin? cause that could be fun. fantically obsessed with adventuring, drinking, and wenching.
I have yet to play a holy warrior. mechanically I love the paladins abilities. and as much as I want this build I think I am going to hold off on the paladin, maybe my group will run Wrath of the Righteous later and that is a great campaign for a paladin. the paladin of Besmara was just the first character concept I had for the skulls and shackles and I was wanting option's outside of the group I play with which I have received and I am very grateful for. I love these message boards. I do understand that the paladin isn't supposed to be an easy class to play I was kind of hoping for a loop hole. but I have received a few other good ideas. I will look into the warpriest once I have the book and if that doesn't fit what I want I will probably go oracle or ranger. I do have one or two ideas for them. Thank you all this was a lot of help. and should I assume Cayden Cailean is not a legal deity for a paladin? cause that could be fun. fantically obsessed with adventuring, drinking, and wenching.
No, Cayden Cailean is not a legal deity for a paladin. Legal deities include Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral and Neutral Good deities (either being of the same alignment of the paladin or one step away from).
In any case, the warpriest is definitely the way to go. As Besmara is a Chaotic Neutral deity, you could play a Chaotic Good warpriest and thematically come close to the paladin. You wouldn't have the same suite of powers, but that's part of the trade-off. It would certainly work with a warpriest, though, who was interested in adventuring, drinking and wenching.
The D&D 3.5 supplement had variant paladins for the chaotic good, lawful evil, and chaotic evil alignments. It would be an easy matter to convert the Paladin of Freedom (the chaotic good variant) into a paladin archetype and the Paladin of Tyranny (the lawful evil variant) into an antipaladin archetype.
The D&D 3.5 supplement had variant paladins for the chaotic good, lawful evil, and chaotic evil alignments. It would be an easy matter to convert the Paladin of Freedom (the chaotic good variant) into a paladin archetype and the Paladin of Tyranny (the lawful evil variant) into an antipaladin archetype.
that k has already been done. I found it months ago on the srd. but I am playing with a group who has played since AD&D and my dear buddy raged hard against it. and the vast majority of the nice people on the message board seem to feel the same way though they said it much nicer than my friend. I love these message boards. we play on Sunday's and I will bring it up then. we already have one player who has made a character no one seems to like and I don't want to go down that path.
or a Paladin of Asmodeus. >_>There's an article Paizo did talking about this, well part of it. It's in one of the Council Of Thieves books.
And then it was retracted, that's why there is no mention of such thing in gods of the inner sea.
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Some random bits, as I was curious I had a quick look through inner sea gods. Pickings are a bit thin for naval paladins (Looking at non-core LG and NG deities).
If you can justify worshiping a Giant deity you have Aegirran (Sailing, Voyages and Dreams). Or there's the Empyreal Lord Ylimancha (Coastal waters, fisherfolk - a bit pedestrian for an adventurer)
Along the 'wenching' side Empyreal Lords are surprisingly fond of the more um... 'romantic side' of piracy (loosely speaking) with both Arshea and Lymnieris (A LG deity of prostitution no less)
Could also just play up the protecting the witch element and go with Arqueros (Bodyguards and protection)
Some random bits, as I was curious I had a quick look through inner sea gods. Pickings are a bit thin for naval paladins (Looking at non-core LG and NG deities).
If you can justify worshiping a Giant deity you have Aegirran (Sailing, Voyages and Dreams). Or there's the Empyreal Lord Ylimancha (Coastal waters, fisherfolk - a bit pedestrian for an adventurer)
Along the 'wenching' side Empyreal Lords are surprisingly fond of the more um... 'romantic side' of piracy (loosely speaking) with both Arshea and Lymnieris (A LG deity of prostitution no less)
Could also just play up the protecting the witch element and go with Arqueros (Bodyguards and protection)
that is an option but for the eastern Deities I really to sell it and I have the two of them coming from Andoran and the slaves in Chelax. And wowi had no idea about these Deities. thank you