Thank you Carter Lockhart & Ryuko, that does help clarify my confusion. Thanks again
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So I've warned my players that this AP can be kind of deadly based on some of the stories here. I'm having them build three characters so if one character dies, the next character can jump right in.
One of my players is building an android gunslinger, and wants to bring the exact same character back after death, so he'll play an identical character three times in a row. The character's name is MegaMan.
LOL! Does he wear blue clothes/armors?
Also, does he get instantly killed upon contact with spikes?
I will start running this finally this weekend though I will be running it under 5e it translate pretty well.
Question for DMs who have played the first module already, how did you handle Sanvill? Assuming the players know him (for example, they use his services for the tech items) how did you have him strike? While they were asleep in the tavern or while they were in the dungeon proper or right after they came out? Using stealth or brute force?
Just curious!
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Just curious!
Immediately after encounter with Meyanda was resolved,without giving a time to rest or recover.Openly,and giving players a chance to surrender.
Because,you see,your players don't really know how much a threat Technic League is.Probably.So you need to announce to them,that all that they've accomplished means nothing,because that man just claimed entire habitat in the name of Technic League.
Pushes quite a few players's rage buttons.
haha I like it Vlad, I never thought to use that angle, thanks.
haha I like it Vlad, I never thought to use that angle, thanks.
Apparently neither did author of adventure.Why even use them Technomages if all we have is,literally,some guy.
And in the next adventure,we don't even have that.So,if you not announce Technic League as credible threat early,when they become focus of the adventure,players won't take them seriously,and this is,i think,bad.
I recommend giving Sanvill some escort.I used two hellhounds.
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I had Sanvil break into Baine's house after the PCs got back to town from clearing out the science deck. He was in Khonnir's room with a knife to Val's neck, shaking the man down for all his notes and tech. He'd already gathered up the notes that the PC Numerian archaeologist had taken, so getting Baine's notes would have been icing on the cake.
Why are the scrapwall fanatics half-orcs?
It's mentioned a few times in the book that Meyanda has ratfolk and orc followers.
Creative Director
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haha I like it Vlad, I never thought to use that angle, thanks.Apparently neither did author of adventure.Why even use them Technomages if all we have is,literally,some guy.
And in the next adventure,we don't even have that.
So,if you not announce Technic League as credible threat early,when they become focus of the adventure,players won't take them seriously,and this is,i think,bad.
I recommend giving Sanvill some escort.I used two hellhounds.
We didn't push the Technic League as villains in the 1st adventure for a VERY specific reason—they're powerful, high-level, WELL equipped foes, and by baiting the PCs with them as bad guys too early runs the risk of frustrating them with constantly being outclassed until the 5th adventure, or runs the risk of derailing the storyline from the story we DID choose to tell about Numeria.
If the PCs don't take them seriously, that's not bad at all. This will certainly leave them to focus and concentrate on the actual adventures, rather than get distracted by something that's not supposed to be their focus until they're much higher level.
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Its easy enough to change them into full blooded orcs, but with the prevalence of orcs and humans in Scrapwall, its reasonable enough there are plenty of half-orcs as well, thus where Meyanda got her followers.
I'm going to have a bit of an interesting thing with them when my players encounter them. After being taken down to negative hp, during their one round of Orc Ferocity, I'm going to have them coup-de-grace themselves as a sort of ritualistic sacrifice to Hellion.
They hope by ridding themselves of their flesh can they recieve the gift of metal from Hellion, and 'transcend' into becoming a machine. Obviously, not gonna happen, but these guys are low-intelligence fanatics, and I want to let the players know that Hellion has some crazy f!%$ers following it.
We didn't push the Technic League as villains in the 1st adventure for a VERY specific reason—they're powerful, high-level, WELL equipped foes
So instead,as written,we just basically have them materialize as the bad guys in 5th adventure?
It's Kingmaker all over again!(but substantially better,because there are at least some plot points that mention Technomages specifically)Which was fixed by me pretty similar,by having Nyrissa show up at the end of first adventure,unleash Meteor Swarm against the castle,then assume the problem is fixed.
It's not but now players know that there are SOMETHING scary and throwing Meteor Swarms around.
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I had him act very curious about the stuff they were getting and had him ask to join them. Their "leader" didn't really care, so he came along. He fought the weed whip mostly by himself to prove to them that he could handle himself. He then waited until they faced a patrol of scrapwallers and he offered them a deal if they helped him defeat them. It worked out pretty well.
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I like slow build-ups to stuff, and the inevitable face-off with the Technic League is no exception. In the first adventure in my game, their presence was limited to Sanvil and a League delegation that came to Torch shortly after the heroes re-lit the fire. They had impressive firepower and the PCs knew it---from their cybernetically enhanced horses to the eerie-looking weapons they possessed. As one character was an ex-League member, and another, an android, has a nasty history with them, this ramped up the tension considerably, but nothing happened.
But having them directly face Technic League members before Starfall, at least for my group, would have thrown away that tension. Their presence will be limited throughout the AP---when the group arrives in Iadenveigh, I'm going to have it where Furkas was not the only guy who found and messed with the techno-dungeon below the town, which would tie to at least two of the PCs' backstories.
Your mileage may vary, of course, but I'm personally a-OK with the role of the League being off-screen threats for the majority of the adventure so the PCs aren't too spooked.
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a League delegation that came to Torch shortly after the heroes re-lit the fire
I like it.
a League delegation that came to Torch shortly after the heroes re-lit the fireI like it.
Ditto. Will use it. Maybe they arrive to pickup their tithe and "help" with the problem.
One further question, I want to integrate a system where the characters can experiment with the tech items similar to the original Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. Unless I am missing something the AP doesn't have this. Its kind of an all or nothing affair. Has anyone done anything like this by chance?
I was thinking of keeping the engineering and technologist requirements to actually identify and use tech items effectively but have a d20 roll + int to ID things.
To figure out how to use a future tech device or weapon, a character must make a successful DC 20 Intelligence or Engineering check:
If the character fails by 11 or more, the item simply does not activate.
If failing by 10 or less, the item activates but it automatically hits the character making the check.
If failing by 5 or less, the item activates, but affects a random target within the item’s range or area of effect.
If the check succeeds, the item works as intended.
A character may make a check once per round as a standard action. Once a character has made a successful Intelligence check, he can use the item in question without future checks and can also instruct others in how to use the item safely granting other characters advantage on their roll. Some particular complex devices may have a higher DC.
Though even after identifying a weapon its use would be considered non-proficient until the appropriate feat was taken.
A quick Hetuath question.
The way the map functions, it seems to me that the PCs will hit the enviro room *before* they run into him. So if they turn the sun back on first, shouldn't Hetuath then be less inclined to straight up murder them?
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Creative Director
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A quick Hetuath question.
The way the map functions, it seems to me that the PCs will hit the enviro room *before* they run into him. So if they turn the sun back on first, shouldn't Hetuath then be less inclined to straight up murder them?
Undead tend to be single-minded and hard to reason with; his rage and anger would either keep him going and make him attack anyway... or you could instead reward the PCs for accomplishing that task first and have him rise up to attack, only to thank them in his alien language before crumbling to dust. Award them his XP in either way, but whatever feels the most dramatic and interesting story-wise for your group is the right choice.
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Creative Director
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One further question, I want to integrate a system where the characters can experiment with the tech items similar to the original Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. Unless I am missing something the AP doesn't have this. Its kind of an all or nothing affair. Has anyone done anything like this by chance?
I was thinking of keeping the engineering and technologist requirements to actually identify and use tech items effectively but have a d20 roll + int to ID things.
To figure out how to use a future tech device or weapon, a character must make a successful DC 20 Intelligence or Engineering check:
If the character fails by 11 or more, the item simply does not activate.
If failing by 10 or less, the item activates but it automatically hits the character making the check.
If failing by 5 or less, the item activates, but affects a random target within the item’s range or area of effect.
If the check succeeds, the item works as intended.A character may make a check once per round as a standard action. Once a character has made a successful Intelligence check, he can use the item in question without future checks and can also instruct others in how to use the item safely granting other characters advantage on their roll. Some particular complex devices may have a higher DC.
Though even after identifying a weapon its use would be considered non-proficient until the appropriate feat was taken.
The high-tech items were built and balanced using the same guidelines for the creation of magic items, so allowing them to be identified using a skill similarly to how magic items are identified by skills makes a lot of sense.
The flowchart solution from Expedition is fun and visually neat... but it's also NOT fun by the time you find your 6th or 7th or 8th item and just want to know what it is. It turns a one-skill-check-and-then-back-to-the-game situation into a "Let's stop the game for several minutes while one person and the GM roll dice and the rest of the players sit around and wait." Not that fun in practice once the novelty wears out. The flowcharts were in the game to preserve item mystique and to model the fact that the early game actually didn't have things like knowledge skills at all—the game, game play, and players have evolved beyond those early days of RPG for the most part.
I'd go ahead and try the flowchart solution, but be prepared for your players to get tired of it before the first adventure is over, at which point switching to the standard Knowledge (engineering) check is a good call.
Good point James. Thats why I changed it to a straight roll but thinking about it, it doesn't really fit in with the the AP does items. I think I'll try it and then drop it once its reasonable to assume the characters are familiar with technology to not bumble their way through it (that is - its not fun anymore).
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things the medical drones can say: "please remain calm, the anal reconstruction will be over momentarily" "sir! please relax! we are merely rotating your internal organs"
"did you vote today!?!" (bolded because it is said in a loud menacing voice) "here kitty kitty!" "sir! you seem to be leaking fluid at an alarming rate!"
one of those is from a TV show:)
Undead tend to be single-minded and hard to reason with; his rage and anger would either keep him going and make him attack anyway... or you could instead reward the PCs for accomplishing that task first and have him rise up to attack, only to thank them in his alien language before crumbling to dust. Award them his XP in either way, but whatever feels the most dramatic and interesting story-wise for your group is the right choice.A quick Hetuath question.
The way the map functions, it seems to me that the PCs will hit the enviro room *before* they run into him. So if they turn the sun back on first, shouldn't Hetuath then be less inclined to straight up murder them?
Thanks, Mr. James Jacobs, Sir.
(Guys, OMG did you see that?! That was so cool!!)
I'm thinking of going so far as having the glowing-eye-switch-thing he does to one of the PCs and their body go stiff, and do like a memory transfer to tell the story of his people and his dark deal with the god of death.
...and THEN have his body crumble into dust. :)
That's one of my issues with the great modules and APs. So much great backstory goes untold. One of my main motivations to also have guest PCs play Meyanda and Khonnir!
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Update on my game.
Since everybody and their mother seemed to be TPKing on poor Hetuath, plus I felt that seeing the sun (thus ending the effect of his ancient curse) might make for a more compelling story. I figured I'd avoid the fight altogether since Hetuath would just see the sun and thank them. Done and done.
Only. That didn't happen.
Also a major reason for this is that my party has been struggling with combat. Only three PCs: a wizard, an investigator, and a bard. Not exactly heavy-hitters. Just fights with CR 1/2s make them breath hard. Plus they all have the Technologist feat, so I've kind of decided they're the Ghostbusters. Their lives will be easier once they get laid down with proton packs.
Anyway, they make it to the environ room, examine everything, read that the controls might control weather, seem to get it. I even describe specific buttons that say things like "Rain", "Sun", "Cloud", etc.
...then decide not to touch anything and move on.
Wat.
I feel the TPK coming as they saunter into the next room and see Hetuath, who immediately goes to town on them. I have Hetuath screaming things in his alien tongue about "how he needs the sun" and "wants it all to end", and the investigator, still under the influence of "Comprehend Languages" passes it on to the party. The bard tries to Intimidate him then swashbuckles a little with his longsword to no good result. Hetuath drops him. The wiz tries zapping Hetuath with some lightning (to which he is immune) and then Hetuath drops him. The investigator retreats and keycards the door shut. He makes it back to environ room and I do some scary "huge banging on the door, it's slowly wrenching it open" stuff. The investigator turns on the sun just as Hetuath breaks in. Light floods the chamber. Hetuath places a hand on the investigator's shoulder, and gives a wistful "...thank you..." before dissipating into ash.
My group is coming up to the Garmen Ulreth invitation to his gambling hall. The group consist of six characters, any suggestions on what type of games available for big group?
The AP mention the games are rigged. Is there a mechanic to this?
Any ideas or perhaps examples on how you handle it as GM would be most helpful?
Thanks
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My players have officially graduated into Lords of Rust! No casualties, although we did lose our oracle player, who was replaced by a new player with a half-orc slayer. Because we were so close to the end of Fires of Creation when she came in, and given what she had in mind for the character, I decided to have her character be a loner who actually hailed from Scrapwall, hired for the express purpose of undermining Meyanda's operation by a gang member who was bitter about the Lords of Rust taking over. The players first ran into her when investigating Ulreth's warehouse, which she had also gotten a lead on: she actually managed to follow them through the building without their awareness, and burst in to cut some people in half in the middle of the fight that broke out within. Given that her personality is very brusque and she doesn't talk much, it's proven to be a nice way of dropping in hints for LoR ahead of time.
Other noteworthy happenings from FoC:
The party chose to ally with Sef, and most interestingly, chose to take Hetuath prisoner back with them to town, where Joram could cast comprehend languages, and allow them to learn more about what he was. This actually allowed his entire awesome backstory to be revealed, and the party grew very sympathetic towards him, returning him to the restored habitat module in order to release his spirit, and that of his people.
The cerebric fungus REALLY freaked them out. We play on Roll20, and I used private whispers to players to send them its freaky telepathic messages, which made them all feel like they were going crazy. It unsettled them probably more than anything else in the whole adventure.
Sanvil managed to convince them to take him with on one of their forays into the Science Deck, where he proved a very useful ally, particularly in helping them solve the power coupling mystery on the elevator. Unaware that he was Technic League, they kept selling him lots of their technological items as they found them, much to his delight. However, one of the PCs noticed his Technic League pin with a nat 20 perception check, and so when he went off to fix the coupling for them, they argued over whether to kill him and take their stuff back, but instead decided to play it cool and try to keep their distance from him. Their attempts to tell him he couldn't come along with them anymore roused his suspicions however, and he broke into the tavern at night while they slept to see if they were keeping any other items from him he could swipe. Caught redhanded, they confronted him, made him almost wet his pants with fear, and got him to admit his unfortunate position with the Technic League. They strong armed him into going to fix the elevator for them, but decided to check out the warehouse before exploring the engineering deck.
After meeting their new friend from Scrapwall, they managed to shake down Ulreth for more info on Meyanda, and, having brought Sanvil along for the ride to keep a watchful eye on him, got him to figure out what the generator was for them, and where it was broadcasting to. Having proven his usefulness over and over again, the party really surprised me by repeatedly insisting on bringing him with them - although they were divided on whether that was out of mistrust, or hope for redeeming him. Overcome by curiosity and afraid of the repercussions of refusing them, Sanvil had no reason to turn them down, and helped them through the end of their mission through Divinity as well.
The thing that nearly kicked their asses was the Gearsman, actually, more than anything else. They wound up defeating it by bullrushing it into the furnace and sealing it in there, after a fight that nearly killed many of them. Shutting down the robots, however, drew Meyanda out to investigate, and they were forced to face her in their half-dead condition for the final showdown. It was something of a disappointing fight, however. They easily took her down with a few very lucky rolls, but when she recognized a certain member of their party as an android, it at least sparked some great drama - he'd previously managed to keep it secret both ICly and OOCly from the party, despite his glowing facial tattoos, which they'd written off as part of his 'magus thing'. His hateboner for Sanvil suddenly made a lot more sense to them, and in a hilarious turn of events, on their way back up, a random encounter with some cockroaches resulted in a crit fail on the android's behalf - that KILLED SANVIL. Considering what had just come out moments earlier, it looked pretty bad for him, and so the party surprised me even more by USING THE SCROLL OF RESURRECTION THE CITY HAD GIVEN THEM, TO RESURRECT SANVIL.
Yep.
When he returned, they did ask him to use his considerable wealth to buy them a new one when he could, but it was such an unexpected gesture, that he couldn't help but be moved to reconsider his position in the Technic League, since it was already so tenuous. He luckily did not remember the cause of his exact death, but does house his suspicions, and while he's agreed to travel with the party to Scrapwall, he's keeping a close eye on the android, and still looking out for number one.
They returned Meyanda to town to question her along with Khonnir, Joram, and Dolga, and managed to draw her from a little intel about Hellion. Meyanda showed a particular interest in the android party member, basically trying to pitch to him why he should forsake these fleshly compatriots of his to serve Hellion and realize his full potential.
(They also tried to convince him to attempt to hit on her, which was hilarious, if not completely ineffective, particularly with his diplomacy check of 2: "I do believe I have some components that may have been designed to interlock with some components which you may have.")
They wound up leaving her in Torch's prison. So somehow both she and Sanvil came out of this alive, and one of them turned into a potential series regular.
It's been an interesting ride so far.
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Very cool. A scenario which has all three of the major NPCs in Fires of Creation make it through to continue influencing the rest of the adventure path should make for some awesome story elements. Sounds like you've got an epic campaign brewing.
Love it, Greyfire. Your PCs sound a lot more powerful than mine!
Considering the advanced metallurgy and equipment in Torch, would you allow an advanced firearm (revolver) to be crafted by a PC ?
Considering the advanced metallurgy and equipment in Torch, would you allow an advanced firearm (revolver) to be crafted by a PC ?
No, unless you want your gunslinger to eschew tech firearms completely.
In addition the tech firearms and and technology used in general in the technological items has nothing to do with slug based weaponry (such as revolvers).
great
now I want to make a gun that shoots Slugs at people, or maybe Leeches, maybe call it a Leeching Rifle:)
but yeah you dont wanna steal the tech's thunder as it were, lots of advanced weaponry is on the way:)
things the medical drones can say: "please remain calm, the anal reconstruction will be over momentarily" "sir! please relax! we are merely rotating your internal organs"
"did you vote today!?!" (bolded because it is said in a loud menacing voice) "here kitty kitty!" "sir! you seem to be leaking fluid at an alarming rate!"one of those is from a TV show:)
even more things the Medical Drones can say, Scary things! "Dr. Oz will see you now" "Remain Calm, we are merely harvesting your lower horn" "Your Insurance has been rejected!" "humans only use 10% of their brain, we're merely taking the other 90%"
those are great Misroi :-)
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Question on reward for recovering Gerrol's body:
According to the story award (end of p17), Emilia Otterbie's father offers to craft a masterwork weapon for each PC. I'm normally a PFS player, so crafting rules are new to me. If I read this correctly, assuming a +15 craft skill, this should take 1.5-2 months per MW weapon created.
Did other GMs wait months to deliver these items, or did you do something different than follow normal crafting rules?
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Keep in mind, it's not simply Emilia's father who will do the crafting. He has an entire guild of craftsmen and smiths who work for him. So, crafting the items for the PCs should still be possible within the adventure itself, because there should be multiple opportunities for the smiths to aid one another. And, within the rules themselves, there are various traits, feats, and equipment that can offer circumstance bonuses while trimming the amount of time it takes to produce such masterwork weapons. This is really more of a flavor/story award, though. And there's no reason to go strictly by the crafting rules PCs have to follow.
Just my two cents,
--Neil
Makes sense. Plus, the guild of craftsmen and smiths are likely churning out masterwork weapons of all kinds on a fairly regular basis. If any of the PCs request a fairly common weapon, it might be available even more quickly, because it may have already been in-progress at the time they designated it for that specific PC.
Hello, I written a post on Nov 20 & looks like no response.
Our next session is Saturday & the group is coming up to Garmen invitation to gambling hall. The group consist of 6 characters & I was wondering if anyone had idea for games for a group that size?
The book mentions the games are rigged. Is there a mechanic on this?
My concern is keeping the players enjoyment & don't want the gambling to slow down the session to point where some players waiting & watching others gamble.
Any ideas or examples would be most helpful.
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I'm getting ready to start my game again, and I've taken a crack at writing up a bit of Meyanda's journal - through an unfortunate crit, she was killed, so I've got to find an alternative way to get a bit of information on Hellion's worship to the party. Here's my first pass - I'm interested to see what others have to offer.
I have heard that some of you begin to doubt our task here in Torch. I have heard that you worry that the people that live above will send agents, either from their own ranks, or seek aid with the League. I tell you this: if we have faith in Hellion, we cannot fail. While we, his pitiful mortal servants, are flawed and weak, our faith in The Unholy Visage lends us his strength. Our actions here strengthen him, and as long as the relay holds, we must protect the font of power that lies beneath the Black Hill.
And what if they send assassins after us? Let them come, I say! Let us give them a taste of Hellion’s might, and drive them out, as he was driven from his rightful throne. Just as he labored beneath a tyrant and freed himself from bondage, we too shall rise up against the League and take our place along his side as he reclaims that which is his birthright. We shall march alongside his favored children, those that are as eternal as he, liberated as well from the League’s control. The streets of Starfall will be drenched with blood when we help him claim it. He is the adamantine claw, we are the iron talons. Where he swings, we strike. Where he directs, we taste hot blood. Where he grasps, we choke. Where he swipes, we tear. We have been created to serve him and his will. And defiance of his will is impermissible.
The rat who voiced these concerns has been killed, fed to the thylacines for his blasphemy. Do not question the will of Hellion again, or next time I shall allow Gruethur to feast upon the fool. He has already taken steps to make himself like one of Hellion’s chosen, though his flesh be as sinful as our own. He understands the Unholy Visage better than most. Learn from his example.
Praise be to the Unholy Visage! Praise be to the Demon Within! Praise be to Hellion!
Misroi, I'm gonna steal your writing! That is the perfect thing I'm looking for to help with foreshadowing Hellion and connecting things in my PbP. Thanks dude!
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That's why I post stuff here, Niles! If you or anyone else see anything that could be added or clarified, just go ahead and post it. I'd stay within the following parameters:
1. No mention of what Hellion actually is. All references to him should be about his demonic persona, though I think I snuck an oblique reference to his scorpion form in.
2. Hints towards his plans should be explained through religious metaphor. The bit I created gives a hint to his larger plan, but doesn't really explain what it is or how he hopes to achieve it.
3. This is a CE deity that sees organics as insignificant outside their worship. The doctrine should reflect that.
Hopefully, Book 5 will have more on the worship of the Iron Gods, so I might go back and revise that once it drops.
Hello, I written a post on Nov 20 & looks like no response.
Our next session is Saturday & the group is coming up to Garmen invitation to gambling hall. The group consist of 6 characters & I was wondering if anyone had idea for games for a group that size?
The book mentions the games are rigged. Is there a mechanic on this?
My concern is keeping the players enjoyment & don't want the gambling to slow down the session to point where some players waiting & watching others gamble.
Any ideas or examples would be most helpful.
You can use that.
Thanks leo 1925 & Moon Glum
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The jinkin gremlin's melee attacks are only dangerous when they get that +1d6 sneak attack damage. Its best if they hide around corners and in nooks and crannies, taking a single sneak attack before running, or dimension dooring away. Sometimes one might win initiative, and try for an extra sneak attack (until a character's first turn in a combat, it is flat footed, so a lone gremlin that surprised a party might get 2 sneak attacks in).
A tough level 1 encounter occurs when two jinkin gremlins are hiding behind either corner of a cavern opening. Since I had 5 players making 20 point characters, I used a couple of dual jinkin encounters. They could be quite deadly, because as long as both jinkins are alive, they can both sneak attack and DR5/cold iron helps their survivability.
The Jinkins are tiny and need to occupy the same square to attack and get their flanking.
