The Fires of Creation (GM Reference)


Iron Gods

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leo1925 wrote:

All APs assume a party of 4 with 15 point buy.

I thought PFS used 20 pt buy? Is it just different?


Hobgoblin Shogun wrote:
leo1925 wrote:

All APs assume a party of 4 with 15 point buy.

I thought PFS used 20 pt buy? Is it just different?

Yes PFS uses 20 point buy.


Thanks guys!
@Leo,

He's a fairly inventive player and is bound to want to "fiddle" with his guns. He plans on keep his Engineering and Alchemy maxed and eventually will pick up Technologist. The next logical step would be to apply his advanced understanding to making his current guns better. I had planned on letting my players "attempt" whatever they want using a combo of rules and common sense and this is something I'm sure he's gonna try.

Considering the party consists of a Human Paladin from Torch, a Kellid Battle Oracle with a greataxe, a Ranged Slayer from Torch, and a Human Techslinger I have a feeling they're going to "attempt" a lot of things to make it through this AP.

At any rate, As Hobgoblin stated, I plan on throwing several hurdle at him before he accomplishes it as advance firearms ARE a significant upgrade.


Wait, RotR doesn't use normal track? What does it use?


@Voidrunner
The thing is that advanced firearms have nothing to do with technological firearms, even the railgun uses gravitons to propel the metal slug. I don't see how one could use the technology found in tech firearms to improve the early firearms. That's from a lore standpoint, from a mechanics standpoint early firearms are about equal (if not better to use) than technological firearms, if you allow advanced firearms then a player who understands the system might be tempted to drop the technological firearms completely and use the better advanced firearms.

I am all for allowing players to get creative but you need to be careful and considerate, for example in the current instance i would allow the player to create technology that either interacts or uses ideas from early firearms. For example (assuming the PC has the relevant tech creation feats and access to power and lab):
Interacts with: i would allow him to create a bulletproof armor
Uses ideas: i would allow him to create a lighter version of a rail gun, that would be a two handed firearm (instead of heavy) that costs ~25K, has 3d6 or 3d8 damage die and otherwise uses the same rules as a rail gun.

Crustypeanut wrote:
Wait, RotR doesn't use normal track? What does it use?

RotRL AE uses the fast experience track.


@Leo

Yeah, I've been eyeballing that for a bit and you're right. Maybe way later down the road after they've accessed Divinity. For all we know the crew may have stumbled across a civilization with advanced firearms and borrowed a few for study and laughs. I have time to mull over a few things involving that as James stated in an earlier post that the PC's won't have acess to proper labs until The Choking Tower(if I remember correctly). That's assuming they survive that long.

We started this afternoon and they just cleared the caves(A1-11). The fire beetles back to back crited the Paladin into negatives, almost had a tpk(ish) at the brown mold, took Gerrol's Russet Mold infected body back to town and left it with his fiance(no one took dungeoneering), did manage some spectacular RPing with the skulks, and nearly lost the Oracle to the gremlins. Fun times.

Side note: Is it just me or does anyone else have the urge to go play the Fallout games after playing/running this?


Voidrunner wrote:


Side note: Is it just me or does anyone else have the urge to go play the Fallout games after playing/running this?

One of my main music sources!

Shadow Lodge

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Hobgoblin Shogun wrote:
Fixed that for you...


WIN


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Well, my PCs have now mostly explored the science deck, and surprises abound.

First, a surprise for my players - the aforementioned treachery happened. The Technic League member stole the thing he was looking for (a generic MacGuffin, basically, that I'll be working into the plot later) and incidentally woke up the android PC, who has joined the party. The villain managed to escape (leaving his eidolon behind to slow the party down) and cruelly sabotaged the elevator to further delay the PCs (in my version it was fully functional at first).

Secondly, a surprise for me. They... totally befriended the cerebric fungus. Once they realized it wanted blood, they had the clever idea of summoning a pony and letting it drink the summoned creature's blood (little questionable if that works, but hey, why not? It's clever). With it's hunger sated for the moment, they struck up a dialog with it... and had the further clever idea of letting it read their thoughts and learn everything they knew about the world, including things like "ethics". Being a mostly good-aligned party, this resulted in the fungus acquiring a good alignment, since it didn't know any better. Currently, they have named it Audrey the Third and set it to cleaning up the bloodstained hallway while it digests all of the information it absorbed.

Needless to say this all caught me rather off guard. I think if the party decides to keep Audrey around it will become a cohort, probably taking levels in some psionic class.

Contributor

MaxAstro wrote:

Secondly, a surprise for me. They... totally befriended the cerebric fungus. Once they realized it wanted blood, they had the clever idea of summoning a pony and letting it drink the summoned creature's blood (little questionable if that works, but hey, why not? It's clever). With it's hunger sated for the moment, they struck up a dialog with it... and had the further clever idea of letting it read their thoughts and learn everything they knew about the world, including things like "ethics". Being a mostly good-aligned party, this resulted in the fungus acquiring a good alignment, since it didn't know any better. Currently, they have named it Audrey the Third and set it to cleaning up the bloodstained hallway while it digests all of the information it absorbed.

Needless to say this all caught me rather off guard. I think if the party decides to keep Audrey around it will become a cohort, probably taking levels in some psionic class.

This sounds great! I hope my players are this creative when it comes time to run it for them.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

On that note, I am totally taking suggestions on what psychic class Audrey should have.

Psion (telepath) seems the obvious choice, but seeing as my PCs don't have access to full caster classes, it could be a bit unfair to give a cohort a full manifester class.

Cerebric fungi have high Wisdom, so psychic warrior is another consideration... I'm also thinking dread could be an appropriate pick.

I'm not nearly as familiar with the psionic rules as I am with the core rules - anyone out there who has more experience want to suggest a clever build that seems appropriate for a telepathic, blood-drinking brain-plant-monster? :)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

If you allow 3.5 I would do the Mindsight feat ( Lords of Madness, p. 126). Give it levels in Ranger and have it be a look out / tracker for the party. That way it doesn't take the spot light away from the player's themselves and it will be memorable which is the most important thing.

Mindsight allows it to locate creatures with intelligence scores within range of it's telepathy ability. It doesn't see the creature, but it knows it's there (so 50% miss chance still applies, etc). Another good thing is it knows the being's type and Int score.

A fungus with favored enemy aberration do you need it?


My group just finished session 3. I rather like the change to the habitat control room. My party found and deciphered it. However, they decided to make the module more like Golarion. Worse still, even after reducing the difficulty by 10 the party skill monkey botched the roll. So now the Kasath desertscape has a pleasant coating of snow. Hilariously, the party considers this a success, believing it to suppress the nasty desert creatures they encountered. Instead, I had the result enrage Hetuath, who was able to put 2 and 2 together on what caused the snow outside his window.

That showdown resulted in almost 2 T.P.K.s (details in the obituary thread). As they crawled their way back to town, the skulks who they previously bargained with via intimidation almost took their chance for revenge. However, for whatever reason the gunslinger had been hefting a chair from the observation room and presented it as a gift. The new throne was just enough to distract the skulks from their betrayal, which the party still doesn't realize is imminent.

The next day, the bloodrager lead the assault on the dungeon with a vengeance. The poor Cerebric fungus took 45+ damage critical from the Enlarged raging elemental striking bloodrager who passed every will save I threw at him. They had a humorous conversation of sorts with the medical drone in the operating room, as they decided to stand on the other side of the doorway. The drone kept pleading with them to come in for their "medical procedure" with the "doctor", but they stubbornly kept asking it questions. I like how the small detail of how it doesn't pursue outside the room lead to a lot of laughs.

Currently they have about half the science deck explored. However, its the north half so the real dangers await with vegepygmies and robots abound.

On a side note, is this the place for GM stories of how the party is doing, or should I go make another thread to continue recounting my party's highlights?


You could make a campaign journal thread under the Iron Gods forum. But, I don't think what you are doing is wrong. I'm enjoying it, and getting cool ideas.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

This is the portion for stories and questions concerning the AP as it is to allow DM's to be able to come up with ideas.


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MaxAstro wrote:

On that note, I am totally taking suggestions on what psychic class Audrey should have.

Psion (telepath) seems the obvious choice, but seeing as my PCs don't have access to full caster classes, it could be a bit unfair to give a cohort a full manifester class.

Cerebric fungi have high Wisdom, so psychic warrior is another consideration... I'm also thinking dread could be an appropriate pick.

I'm not nearly as familiar with the psionic rules as I am with the core rules - anyone out there who has more experience want to suggest a clever build that seems appropriate for a telepathic, blood-drinking brain-plant-monster? :)

For a blood sucking Wisdom manifester with a heart of gold I'd go with a Vitalist using the Soulthief method. Can drain health from people it doesn't like to give health to people it does like. Also transfers the no fun healing chores to a cohort.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Oh! Vitalist! I totally forgot that vitalists are Wis based... That's a great idea! And my party has no real divine casters, so it would be a decent fit, too.


Angry Cow wrote:

My party found and deciphered it....So now the Kasath desertscape has a pleasant coating of snow. Hilariously, the party considers this a success, believing it to suppress the nasty desert creatures they encountered...That showdown resulted in almost 2 T.P.K.s (details in the obituary thread). As they crawled their way back to town, the skulks who they previously bargained with via intimidation almost took their chance for revenge. However, for whatever reason the gunslinger had been hefting a chair from the observation room and presented it as a gift.

On a side note, is this the place for GM stories of how the party is doing, or should I go make another thread to continue recounting my party's highlights?

No, you're golden. Just like these stories. Ah, like children with hand grenades...


I asked this again but none answered but i ask again bucause this seems like a big plot issue to me and i would like to hear people's thoughts on this.

Can anyone re-route the power in the habitat module?
I was thinking why didn't Meyanda powered down some other parts of the habitat module (or even nearly everything) in order to provide more yield for her to transmit. For that matter why didn't she simply stop the reactor from wasting power by trying to power destroyed parts of the habitat module.
In the same line of thought, wouldn't simply destroying the power nodes in D2 release some (if not most) of the reactor's yield?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

My understanding is that rerouting the power from the reactor is beyond Meyanda's capabilities. She has a device that let's her steal power from it, but she doesn't actually know how to operate it. Also, if the reactor is still trying to send power to sections of the ship that don't exist anymore, it's apparently not very smart - it would probably also continue to send power to the power nodes even if they were destroyed.


I think MaxAstro has the right of it. Either Meyanda doesn't have the know-how to reroute the power (and by extension, the party won't either), or the generator is so worn and damaged it is permanently stuck in its current setting. I would go with the latter option. Just turning off the fail safe broke half the facility, as evidenced by the all the calamity on the science deck. If my party attempts excessive tampering with the generator I will probably have it belch purple smoke, access panels blow off, and other warnings that the poor thing is just too far gone for conventional use.

It may be interesting if later in the campaign the party returns with a much higher Knowledge (Engineering) and significant resources to attempt repairs. Assuming the Technic League isn't informed by Sanvil, the habitat module could serve as a hidden base for the PCs.

Speaking of habitat module, did I miss something or is the name of this detached part of Divinity not named anywhere in the book? I am thinking of calling it HM-14(Ka), short for "Habitat Module 14 (Kasath)", if/when the party looks at the holotable on the engineering deck. Judging by the CX-335 designation for Kasath in their notes, I am assuming the Divinity's science-minded crew had a very blunt, bland naming convention.


I don't buy the incopetance excuse for the reasons below:

reasons:

For once it doesn't fit her role but the biggest issue is her deity Hellion. Even if she isn't capable for re-routing the power Hellion surely isn't, so he could have send her visions or "inspiration" or something like that. Even if that is beyond the capabilties of Hellion, she could have send word back to scrapwall in which she explains the situation and asks for directions, even if she couldn't buy the magic needed for such communication she could have sent a person, with a good horse a rider would have reached scrapwall in 3 days (without forced marching) and it would take 3 more to return with instructions.

You say that the reactor will continue to send energy to the destroyed power nodes even if that energy didn't go anywhere? hmm... interesting... that could work. Of course for this to work we have to assume that every interface device for the reactor is destroyed and the reactor is running on default or emergency settings and his firmware settings dictate him to try to power the ship before anything else as a default/emergency choice, and since every interface device has been destroyed then nobody can alter the default/emergency settings.
In addition this theory explains why she didn't hook the power transmitter directly to the reactor, because if she did the reactor would still send power to the rest of the ship first.
This theory could work, it still leaves the issue of digging through the walls, ceiling and floor (near the fusion reactor) in order to physically cut the conduits that leech the power off the reactor and hook whatever you want directly to the reactor.
Fortunately we know that even the interior walls of the spaceships are extremely hardy and such things mentioned abvove would require very specific tech gear and/or a lot of time and/or high level magic.

The reactor can be restored with a 4th level spell, this one.

I think i am getting somewhere here, things aren't so easy as i first thought.

@Angry Cow
I haven't found a name for the habitat module either but i know that this wasn't the only habitat module as shown in

spoiler:
the reign of stars tale
.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Angry Cow wrote:
Speaking of habitat module, did I miss something or is the name of this detached part of Divinity not named anywhere in the book? I am thinking of calling it HM-14(Ka), short for "Habitat Module 14 (Kasath)", if/when the party looks at the holotable on the engineering deck. Judging by the CX-335 designation for Kasath in their notes, I am assuming the Divinity's science-minded crew had a very blunt, bland naming convention.

Are you sure it wouldn't be HM-14(CX-335)? :)

leo1925 wrote:
The reactor can be restored with a 4th level spell,...

I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that repairing a technological artefact is beyond the limits of that spell. Technically it works, RAW, but it really shouldn't considering the size and complexity of the device in question. Easy way to explain it: Just say the reactor is so complex that some parts of it themselves count as artefacts, and are destroyed; no magic can repair a destroyed artefact.

Also, digging through the walls without knowing ~exactly~ what you are doing sounds like a great way to blow everything up and/or cause a huge radiation leak. Likely Hellion wouldn't trust this to be done remotely. And without knowing ~exactly~ how the reactor is damaged, it's quite likely that Hellion doesn't know how to fix it - and more importantly, probably doesn't have the tools or resources.

OH! Also, don't forget that reactors in this setting basically run off of Tesla tech - they "beam" power to nearby devices. In many cases, there probably ~aren't~ cables that you can cut.


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MaxAstro wrote:
Are you sure it wouldn't be HM-14(CX-335)? :)

I like the way you think.

As for the generator, I don't think Greater Make Whole applies to artifacts either. And if it did, even RAW I don't think even a 20th level caster could handle repairing the generator with only 5 pounds per level. I would say given the enormity of the thing the reactor is far more than 100 pounds. If it was light enough for the spell, Meyanda probably would have just brought it back with her as she originally intended. Strangely, Make Whole has easier target limits.

Even more RAWy is that even Make Whole doesn't really work either. Bear with me as this gets into the ridiculously rules heavy. Technically, both Make Whole and Greater Make Whole specify they restore Xd6 points only when cast on construct creatures. They can, however, instantly fix an item at 0 hit points of fewer. But the generator still has hit points so that doesn't work. If you wait around until it does have none left, you let half of Torch go with it. Both spells do function like Mending, though, so they can restore 1d4 points per cast as that spell specifies it heals objects. With the reactor taking 2d6 points of damage per day while outside of fail safe you will about 3 casts a day to keep it stable. Put it in fail safe and it will still take most casters more than 2 months to get it back to full 1,800. Oh, what fun math! And this is why I always play rules as intended.

As I suggested earlier, I think its possible to fix the reactor, but the resources and skills required are far beyond what Meyanda or the party has access to as of book 1.


First of all greater make whole can fix technological artifacts (here).
Secondly make whole was stealth errata'd (in 6th printing) to also affect objects (it's in the description now).
Thirdly, WOW i hadn't noticed that greater make whole has such limiting target (i assumed it was the same as make whole).

Upon closer inspection greater make whole seems like a really badly written spell. First of all it doesn't list the "one construct creature of any size" in it's target but it mentions construct creatures in the description. Second it doesn't use the updated wording of make whole (the object part). In addition it does an "air breathing mermaid" by saying* that greater make whole can fix destroyed technological items, which implies that the two previous spells can't do it (when in fact mending** should be enough), also it raises the question on whether you can use mending and make whole for damaged (but not destroyed) tech items or not.

Anyway you are correct, greater make whole can't be used in the reactor because of the weight limit and i think that make whole*** can't be used either... how tall is the reactor room?

*to be fair this might have been exception in order to not break the setting, and i am ok with that

**yes i know that neither mending nor make whole mention destroyed mundane items but they both mention destroyed magic items so it's kinda stretcy to say that they can repair destroyed nonmagical items.

***assuming make whole can "heal" damaged but not destroyed tech items in the first place


Wow, and here I thought I was referencing up to date rules by using Paizo's own site. I didn't check for stealth erratas or the word of god from creative dinosaurs!

The numerous oddities between the spell versions further my point that the exact wording is everything. However, I think the intent is clear. Greater Make Whole offers an even better way to heal constructs and offers a way to repair broken high magic or high technological equipment. The implication that previous versions cannot fix tech stuff appears to be correct. There is a progression in the spells' descriptions. Mending was always limited to very basic items, while Make Whole started fixing magic items "simple" relative to the caster. Greater Make Whole starts fixing "advanced" (equal caster level) magic items and so can also fix more advanced tech. In other words, Mending fixes torn clothes or a broken hinge, Make Whole fixes a destroyed gatehouse or a crane, and Greater Make Whole fixes the super science doohickeys abundant in Numeria.

The weight limitation keeps Greater Make Whole limited to gear, rather than, say, instantly restoring large sections of the Divinity per cast. That would the realm of Memory of Function, with its 10,000gp material component and +3 spell level from Greater Make Whole. However, even it was worded specifically with a time limit to prevent a caster from doing just that. It would be odd for a 4th level spell to do a better job a 7th spell.

I play rules as intended, and in this case I really don't think its appropriate for a 4th level spell to fix something as advanced, valuable, and large as the fusion generator. If it could, that would also imply a few Greater Make Whole casts could restore the entire Divinity to function. If it were that easy, someone would have done it millennia ago and we would have no super science ruins to explore.


I get what you are saying, i really do. Also check the rest of the thread i linked you since it has more information on the things we are discussing (the cliff notes are that make whole can fix damaged but not destroyed tech and memory of function isn't written good).

I ask again, how tall is the reactor? i couldn't find an answer to the book, if it is 30 feet high it needs ~9CL make whole, if it is 60 feet high it needs ~18CL make whole.

I am not against having divinity being able to be fixed by magic is a bad thing, the thought seems to leave an aftertaste of irony that i like. The answer to why it hasn't happened yet is simple (although it requires you to have read quite a bit of lore, including the tales city of the fallen sky and reign of stars), it's because the technic league (or anyone) doesn't have access to the inside of divinity, up to now they have explored a very small part of the wreck and from what i have understand none of the critical areas of the ship (engine, bridge, brig, weapons stations etc.), if somehow; someone gets full access to the wreckage, and that someone has sufficient magic; yes it might be able to able to repair it to working order, maybe not space-worthy but definetely fly worthy.


I find it surprising James Jacobs treats technological bits as so easy to fix with magic. Does that imply a simple 0th level Mending can fix the elevator's coupler and bypass an intended forced trip back to town? That leaves a sour taste in my mouth. A wizard's apprentice would be more of use than the town's most skilled blacksmith. Magic is cool, but I tend to say entry level magic isn't quite that cool.

We are probably just going to disagree on the capabilities of these spells. That is fine. No two groups will be the same anyway. If you want to work out the size of the reactor in regards to Make Whole, I would say the purple circles on the map are the reactor itself, so that looks like about 10 ft by 20 ft. Its nothing official, but looking at the picture on page 53 the reactor seems to be at least 15 ft high. That means the whole thing is roughly 3,000 cubic feet, or alternatively about 2,355 cubic feet if you consider it two separate cylinders. That would be caster level of 200+. A bit surprising, but the 10 cubic feet per level of Make Whole is only little more than a 2.15 ft by 2.15 ft by 2.15 ft cube. Of course, you are free to make the reactor as big or small in your game as you want. Thats the lovely power of being a GM.

Edit: Amusingly, you would be better off using Animate Objects first. The reactor would either be a Huge or two conjoined Large objects, so you could use it as soon as you could cast the spell. Once its animated, it is a construct creature and Make Whole works on it automatically.


What?
Aren't 10 cubic feet, 10x10x10 (lenght, width, height)?

I am european and my only experience with the imperial system are RPGs so excuse me if the question seems silly.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

10x10x10 is 1000 cubic feet.

To find a size in cubic feet, you find the height, width, and length of an object in feet and multiply them together. This is fairly easy to visualize if you take something like legos. Assume one lego is one cubic foot. To make a block two legos wide, two legos long, and two legos high you need a total of eight legoes. This is also why the weight of a creature increases by a factor of eight when you cast enlarge person on it.

Ironically this is a confusion that comes up a lot - way back in 3.5 I had someone who thought that being able to cast shrink item on a "20 cubic foot object" meant he could shrink a 20x20x20 block of stone and then unshrink it to drop it on people...


Eh, volume is just weird like that. One cubic foot is a cube with sides of 1 foot each, or 1x1x1. Ten cubic feet would be 10 of these cubes lined up, or 1x1x10, not 10x10x10. The same applies with cubic meters if you want to think that way, but a cubic foot is 1/35 the size of a cubic meter.


Ok i feel stupid now, it's the same thing with meters, it's just that i have so many years to work with cubic anything (other than higher mathematics) that i forgot something so simple.
So so stupid...

Anyway the reactor seems to be 10x25(or 35 if you count the controls)x what? 15? Angry Cow is correct, there is no dimensions given and from the picture it seems that it could be 15 feet but the angle is weird (assuming the artist drew the reactor to scale with the humans).
Even if we go with 15 for height and 25 for width, that means 375 CL in order to affect it with make whole... WOW that's a lot... so...hmmm...it can be done with this, if you somehow you get it at will but even then it requires sacrificing a village or a small town (depending on your DC), other than that... limited wish to fix the fusion reactor or full powered wish?


Nakteo wrote:
GM 8574 wrote:
What sorts of games of chance are folks using for Silverdisk Hall? I'm trying to think something up that's a little less typical than poker or Twentybone, and wanted to see what y'all had in mind. Thanks!

You beat me to the punch on that one. I've been trying to figure out easy ways for the players to simulate gambling that won't bog down the game if only a couple players want to do so.

Also, how long would y'all say it should take for the smith to make a masterwork weapon (per PC) in exchange for returning the body of Whatshisface? My math using the crafting rules says a 5th level Expert (smith's level unstated) super specked for crafting would take around 5 weeks per weapon. Seems kinda unviable to me. What do you think would be acceptible?

I plan on using actual boardgames as an option - Three Dragon Ante for example or Seven Dragons. Colossal Arena would be perfect for a robot arena.


Just wanted to say this has been a great thread with lots of great little ideas. I always find DMs sharing ideas and experiences invaluable.

I have been playing/DMing D&D for 32 years now and one of my all time favourite adventures is Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. I have migrated this module and played it as a mini-campaign in every edition of D&D. And its changed a lot over the years. I was in the middle of converting it to 5e when I heard about Iron Gods and decided to wait for the first adventure before committing to my own Barrier Peaks again to see if I liked it.

I do. Its a great adventure and and entire campaign based around science-fantasy appeals to me more than a one shot. Its also relatively easy to convert to 5e. So far anyway.

Keep up the good work and looking forward to seeing the rest of the campaign. I wonder if whoever had the idea for the Iron God campaign has a fondness for the Barrier Peaks and Dying Earth type settings.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Solomani wrote:
Nakteo wrote:
GM 8574 wrote:
What sorts of games of chance are folks using for Silverdisk Hall? I'm trying to think something up that's a little less typical than poker or Twentybone, and wanted to see what y'all had in mind. Thanks!

You beat me to the punch on that one. I've been trying to figure out easy ways for the players to simulate gambling that won't bog down the game if only a couple players want to do so.

Also, how long would y'all say it should take for the smith to make a masterwork weapon (per PC) in exchange for returning the body of Whatshisface? My math using the crafting rules says a 5th level Expert (smith's level unstated) super specked for crafting would take around 5 weeks per weapon. Seems kinda unviable to me. What do you think would be acceptible?

I plan on using actual boardgames as an option - Three Dragon Ante for example or Seven Dragons. Colossal Arena would be perfect for a robot arena.

I figured not all of the PCs would want to go gambling, so I wanted to abstract the gaming. I just had the PCs roll a Profession (gambler) check to see how they did. If I'd thought a bit more about it, I'd actually do something like this:

Each check represents an hour of gaming. You decide the stakes. If your result is under 20, you lose your stakes. If you get between 20 and 25, you end up breaking even. If you get 25 or higher, you actually double your stakes.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

That's a pretty quick and easy way of doing it. Although I would make the flat DC a 15, instead of a 20.

So 14 and below you lose your stakes.
15-19 you break even.
20+ you double your stakes.

Not many characters take profession gambler. Generally it's a rogue with a high int (not happening) or a Magus.

DC is increased by one for every 10 gp that is put into the stake above 50.


So uh.. I have a player who just got zapped by the malfunctioning Sterilizer just before Hetuath. He has 5 intelligence and wisdom and wants to smash the thing with his greataxe.

While I have no doubt that doing so should set off the trap again prematurely, how much damage do you guys think it should require before it no longer can harm anyone?

Hardness 15 perhaps, with say, 30 hp? 10? Perhaps make it stop shocking people for 24 hours as well, before it resets?

I'm actually tempted to use the Trap Wrecker Feat (Orcs only, which he is hilariously enough, though he doesn't have it) as a guideline.. AC = Disable Device DC, then you need to do enough damage equal to half the DC in order to not to set it off anyways.


I was lazy with the Silverdisk Hall games and expected to be able to open the Gamemaster's Guide to an example of a crooked establishment. I really should have checked before the session because the only example there was really insufficient. Instead, I did an extremely heavy abstraction. I had the players tell me how much they were betting, what type of game they were playing, and roll 1d100. The higher the number, the better. Card games like poker or blackjack would break even on lower numbers but have worse payouts than pure chance games. Still, anything less than a 70 would be a straight loss. I figured this would empty my players' of their free credits very quickly.

Of course, nothing goes as planned. The bloodrager promptly rolls a 100 on his first bet to everyone's shock. Since it was poker, I say the lucky dog got a 4 of a kind and turned his 30 gold bet to 300. He then tries his luck with his remaining 70 gold off the the voucher, rolls a 90, and triples that too. The bouncers were about ready to frisk him for a cheat. Meanwhile, the inquisitor utterly failed his Sense Motive to determine how crooked the Hall is. He thinks the place is very respectable, and his friend's winnings seem to confirm that. So he throws all his 100 gold on roulette and immediately loses it all. Good times for everyone involved.

For smashing the sterilizer, I would say he has to destroy the appendages on both sides of the room (2 targets), which have hardness 10 and 20 hit points each. But each hit automatically shocks him like when smashing the generator. If he breaks them, I don't think it should reset. It is just another broken.


Eh after he took one zap from wacking it (And went down to -6 hp), one of the other players had their characters call him off. He's a full-blooded Orc, so he wasn't unconscious, so if one of them would not have called him outa there, he would've fried to death. XD


James Jacobs wrote:
Yeah, the inferno pistol, being specific to the first adventure of Iron Gods, is not in the PRD. It was created specifically to hand out what's essentially a low-powered laser pistol for low level characters, in any event.

I like the idea of a "low-level" laser. But, requiring a nanite canister (at 500gp)to fuel the thing is rough. When everything else uses Silverdisks, why would the device made for a lower level character have 5x more expensive ammo? It will take someone a while to build up the 5k for the pistol. Having to keep up with 50gp a shot is rough for even higher level characters.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Adam Ross wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Yeah, the inferno pistol, being specific to the first adventure of Iron Gods, is not in the PRD. It was created specifically to hand out what's essentially a low-powered laser pistol for low level characters, in any event.
I like the idea of a "low-level" laser. But, requiring a nanite canister (at 500gp)to fuel the thing is rough. When everything else uses Silverdisks, why would the device made for a lower level character have 5x more expensive ammo? It will take someone a while to build up the 5k for the pistol. Having to keep up with 50gp a shot is rough for even higher level characters.

Also by design. It's meant to be a slow introduction to the idea of weapons like this, after all, and something that doesn't immediately overwhelm your game with a strange new flavor. It's a sip, not a gulp. The gulping comes later.


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Great, now I'm thirsty, thanks JJ. Thirsty for more TECHNOROGY!


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Now we just need cyberlimbs with rocket fists that fly out and punch people.


I noticed an error in Sef's tactics, it says that he sneak attacks with alchemist's fire but the thing is that you can't sneak attack with splash weapons. The same mistake was made with an alchemist in shards of sin (shattered star book 1).

Silver Crusade

leo1925 wrote:
I noticed an error in Sef's tactics, it says that he sneak attacks with alchemist's fire but the thing is that you can't sneak attack with splash weapons. The same mistake was made with an alchemist in shards of sin (shattered star book 1).

Sef's a she.

She throws an alchemist fire while sneaking so she doesn't get sneak attack damage, but the players still won't know what hit them (she's sniping). It doesn't say any sneak damage is applied. For the daggers this is a given as it's applied.

Just saying it's not an error, more your assumption that she applied sneak damage when it doesn't say.


Ayanzo wrote:
leo1925 wrote:
I noticed an error in Sef's tactics, it says that he sneak attacks with alchemist's fire but the thing is that you can't sneak attack with splash weapons. The same mistake was made with an alchemist in shards of sin (shattered star book 1).

Sef's a she.

She throws an alchemist fire while sneaking so she doesn't get sneak attack damage, but the players still won't know what hit them (she's sniping). It doesn't say any sneak damage is applied. For the daggers this is a given as it's applied.

Just saying it's not an error, more your assumption that she applied sneak damage when it doesn't say.

I get what you are saying but i am pretty sure that if someone, who either doesn't know that rule or he is remembering 3.5, reads that part in the tactics then he will understand that she can sneak attack with alchemist's fire.


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So, with the gambling at the Silverdisk hall, I went and took the rules from Second Darkness for Quick Gambling.. and uh..

One of my players broke the system by accident.

I gave them all 100 gp in tokens, aye? If the Silverdisk Hall had not kicked him out at about 500, he would have won 9853 gp and 2 sp.

Wilhelm Broke It.

In the end I gave him 726 gp (72 silver disks and 6 gp) and a pat on the back.


@Crustypeanut
I guess that the player in question was continuing to bet the previous won amount again and again, correct?

Also this was an almost unbelievable string of d20 rolls, 14->20->20->18->20->14->18, is just out of this world.


Yeah he was. He did it right, but only because I also didn't give a limit on how much he could bet at one time. But.. the quick gambling rules didn't have such a limit, so you could bet your entire amount at once I suppose, which he did.

And those rolls.. yeah, the rest of the group were mind boggled. The only other guy to gamble, the Orc with a -3 Charisma bonus, lost his entire 100 gp in a few rolls. XD

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