We didn't push the Technic League as villains in the 1st adventure for a VERY specific reason—they're powerful, high-level, WELL equipped foes
So instead,as written,we just basically have them materialize as the bad guys in 5th adventure?
It's Kingmaker all over again!(but substantially better,because there are at least some plot points that mention Technomages specifically)
Which was fixed by me pretty similar,by having Nyrissa show up at the end of first adventure,unleash Meteor Swarm against the castle,then assume the problem is fixed.
It's not but now players know that there are SOMETHING scary and throwing Meteor Swarms around.
haha I like it Vlad, I never thought to use that angle, thanks.
Apparently neither did author of adventure.Why even use them Technomages if all we have is,literally,some guy.
And in the next adventure,we don't even have that.
So,if you not announce Technic League as credible threat early,when they become focus of the adventure,players won't take them seriously,and this is,i think,bad.
I recommend giving Sanvill some escort.I used two hellhounds.
Immediately after encounter with Meyanda was resolved,without giving a time to rest or recover.Openly,and giving players a chance to surrender.
Because,you see,your players don't really know how much a threat Technic League is.Probably.
So you need to announce to them,that all that they've accomplished means nothing,because that man just claimed entire habitat in the name of Technic League.
Pushes quite a few players's rage buttons.
I have a dex & int based Android Investigator in Iron Gods. It's fantastic, I do great vs traps and knowledge stuff. But I am severely lacking in battle. What can I do?! Just hit level 3, so I can change up anything at 3. We already have a techslinger and Savage Technologist in the Party, so I'm a little hesitant towards gunsling'n.
[b]** spoiler omitted **...
I checked and re-checked a few books and came to a conclusion.
Conclusion:Investigator sucks.
Solution:Rebuild as Inspired Alchemist/Trap Breaker.
Preserves most of the flavor,class abilities are about the same,plus the option of throwing bombs at people.
Not that throwing bombs are particulary good,just not nearly as bad.
Plus,bonus damage with grenades.There are a lot of grenades in this AP.
And,yes,one of players in my campaign uses exactly that build.She's having a good time,even if sometimes overshadowed by stalker and warder.
My party is more or less testing Path of War,and consists of:
NG Female Human Stalker,hailing from Alkenstar Rangers,made-up recon unit.
N Female Tian Human Alchemist,which ended up in Alkenstar as an aftermatch of unfinished as of now Jade Regent campaign.
N Male Half-Giant Warder,one of the descendants of original Zentradi that survived the crash.
And Val.Because we can't have a party without smart,annoying kid.
Actually... Nope, I don't get it, how does it do that again?
You dare bring SCIENCE into this?!
Also,other half of power...which is not required,actually,could be supplied by 16-level technomancer.
Care to explain that process? Or is it simply using Arcane Battery to funnel spells into the necessary charges?
It has the ability called Efficient Construction,which,and i kid you not,at 10 level of prestige class reduces energy expenditures of labs by 50 percent!
Because that's what you expect from tech-based prestige class.
Well,it's not the only ability it gets on 10,but...
i'm curious Vlad why is Wrath so high on your list?
Because it requires minimal adjustment to turn into a truly epic story.
Characters are good,stakes are high,and new system(mythic)is pretty well integrated,and,what's more important,it fits very nicely into my personal timeline to provide epic conclusion for the second generation of player characters.
For the record,before Wrath and Iron Gods my favorite was Second Darkness.
Yes,really.
Hmm.Let's see.
Among me,this is tied for second place with Rise of the Runelords,first being Wrath of Righteous.
Story is good and well-connected,but requires,IMO,substantial amount of GM's work to make it truly spectacular.
But then,no amount of work can do this in,say,Skulls and Shackles.
Art is usual Paizo.
Bestiaries are,as usual for me,nearly unusable,but some pretty fun mechs here.
That's a plus.
As to the foundry....... Just. Say. No. Repairing it would give the PC's access to a machine that generates sentient beings. This, while potentially cool, could very easily derail the game in a number of different ways.
It's better than machine that generates crazy chaotic evil sentient beings.
And i don't so much believe in rails as in motivation.
At this point,nothing,from motivational standpoint,can't actually derail them.The mission is clear as is penalty for failure.
from the sound of her character it would seem she's going for an Elven Tank Girl:)
archaeologist with technologist feat:)
Sounds like someone who went into Srapwall already trained and with specific goal in mind.
I have a similar situation.
Leader of my PCs is gal who hails from Wasteland Rangers,made-up Alkenstar scout organization.Gives a good excuse to have a fair hand with technology.
What are the main factions of scrapwall, my wife has an idea for an Elf scraper from there.
i dont need a lot of info just the basics to get her started, i'll be getting Lords of Rust next weekend:)
As of about a year before Adventure Path starts,Steel Falcons(badass martial artists and strongest gang around),Smilers(crazy cannibals),Redtooth's Raiders(oldest gang,ratling-only),and Lords of Rust&Thralls of Hellion(enemies).
Also it's assumed that there is a few smaller gangs,but they are not as important.
My group has started into Lords of Rust, but just prior to setting off for Scrapwall there was a rather interesting development.
** spoiler omitted **
That was a bit long, but it now leaves me wondering how Meyanda changes book 2. For my group at least, she is not quite an ally yet, but she is certainly going to abandon her initial plan to...
My version:
Converting Meyanda is all about crisis of faith.Idea is,Meyanda is not stupid.She knows that after severing divine connection,she is deemed a failure.So,in my case she reverts to the basic programming(or instincts,whatever):Hellion is clear and present danger.Removal of this danger is necessary for her to continue to exist.Either that,or run,and she does not seem running type to me.So,she joins the adventurers...problem being,she is android in crisis of faith.She literally doesn't understand that she needs to proactively provide information for the operation to succeed,and players probably don't know the right questions.
Well,the spell isn't called Clarke's Disable Construct.
What i'm trying to say is you don't need to restrict the spell.Playing it RAW is probably enough.There is even a single target for it in Lords of Rust.
Even when the doors slide into the ceiling when opened?
@Nakteo
Yeah disable construct might be a problem, a serious one, thankfully it's only on the wizard's and bard's spell list and it's a touch spell.
I wouldn't worry about feeblemind in this AP any more that i would worry in RotRL, and i wasn't really worried then because my players know that if their wizard start using nuclear weapons then the enemy wizards will also start using nuclear weapons, it's a M.A.D. thingy.
Exactly what magic is disrupted in the robot that endows it with life?
Is Smoke Furnace portable in a sense that it can be disassembled and assembled somewhere else?
Same question about labs 1 and 6.
And,my usual:what's the damage of the android foundry and what's required to repair them?
Question about Soothe:where did Smilers get this stuff?
It requires both medical lab and Craft feat,and i assume either working generator or at least two batteries.
Do they have no means of manufacturing it?
In this case,is 14 doses all their available stock?
Is there a way to synthesize it with alchemy and/or Brew Potion?
they will still be timeworn tech items with no charges left
Well,you could dance around it.One level of technomancer comes to mind.
Recondition,recharge fully,give away,repeat as needed.There is even far more useful laser rifle in the adventure,and the trick works for it too.
leo1925 wrote:
and then sell them for 45000gp each.
I think that's actually the problem.Item clearly is not worth that much.It's a scale mail with bells and whistles!
So,my solution would be to change price to something less crazy.Probably remove price altogether and make them artifacts.Easier that way.
Because,here's the true problem,at least potentially.
In the above example,we assumed technomancer with one level.
What if it's actually level 4?Recondition,recycle,ZING!75% of crafting cost of each suit available to use for crafting at the first available lab.
Hell,even if we assume DM banned make whole and memory of function,it's still 10%,which is vastly more than 200gp that we are offered by the script.
I am not sure i understand you, what do you mean by wraped and what does this has to do with make whole?
Greater make whole functions as make whole which functions as mending.
And mending has no effect for warped or transmuted objects,but still repair damage to them.And yes,this wording hurts my brain.
leo1925 wrote:
Also what does caster level has to do with repairing technological items with greater make whole?
Nothing,but it's better than either say no because script said so or allow repair with one spell slot without material components.
I think.
leo1925 wrote:
As you can see i thought you were talking about restored spacesuits, were you talking about the ruined ones when you said that they can't be sold?
Ruined ones can be sold easily(even the script say so!).But working ones,and for any fraction of listed price?That's crazy talk.
I actually re-checked,and it closer to scale mail than half-plate.
200gp market price,anyone?
leo1925 wrote:
Understandable, radiation isn't very difficult to deal with.
It's not just that,that thing(space suit) is obviously intended for the technical personnel working in a dangerous environment.
Challenge:name one technical-inclined class with heavy armor proficiency.
I probably can,but that requires a lot of digging.
You could make dreamscarred's Warder work,i guess.
Oh well.Have space suit,will travel.
I just KNOW my players will keep the suits because of this book!
True
35 pounds of weight worth 400 gp in a place no one will visit for some time because of what's been there very long
I bet at the very least you can make a nice looking golem of it or something.
Fun fact:i just called my players,described spacesuit to them,and asked,how much they,knowing that they play Iron Gods and actually have to deal with radiation sometimes,would be willing to pay for such technological marvel.
Best offer was,sadly,just below 10k.
I am pretty sure there is a black market for technological artifacts - workings ones as well collectables.
Also, the party could use the TL Guy from FoC as a double agent / merchant for stuff like that.
That actually makes perfect sense.Treat that thing as technological artifact,with no set price.
My point being,regardless of being damaged,ruined,or in pristine condition,this is technological curiosity at best and more likely just 35 pounds of weight.
Actually by the end of lords of rust the players will have access to greater make whole if they have a cleric
I'm pretty sure that being powdered by time/necromancy counts as warped for make whole.Debatable.I would not allow it.Maybe at later caster level?
leo1925 wrote:
Why couldn't they be sold? (i assume you are talking about repaired spacesuits)
45000gp is well within the purchase value of a lot of large cities.
Because they are not worth 45k just because book says so.It is,for all intents and purposes,non-masterwork half-plate that weights a little less.Resistances are good,but how do you explain them to prospective buyer(and especially the fact that they stop working after 24 hours),and immunity to radiation and vacuum is worthless for anyone not expecting to face such threats i.e. Technic League.
The GM who doesn't want the AP to get derailed or to have to build up a bunch of additional content using time he/she doesn't have is what prevents it.
So,basically,nothing in my case.Thanks.
Because i fail to see how a few inferior pieces of armor that none of my players can wear in combat,and that can't actually be sold(because only buyers with that kind of cash are,as usual,Technic League)can derail anything but a toy train.
A few more hundred pounds on a party mule,more likely.Which they don't have.NOW that's derailing!
Actually,what prevents Memory of Function and/or Greater Make Whole on this suits except the fact that players don't have access to them yet,and,ahem,balance?
Kinda makes sense to have an on-board reactor on that monstrosity.Maybe power banks are needed to jump-start it?
What we KNOW,is that maximum amount of energy transferable through Torch is 93 days times 10 charges/hour,or about twenty thousand charges.And this somehow supposed to power Bolo for enough time to dig out,drive to Silver Mountain and do...something.And i assume it at least isn't planned as one-way trip.
Meyanda?Reason behind question would be that the younger she is,the less established her personality are->the easier she is to convert or at least confuse in combat.What's her experience(as in,combat experience.I know that she is 6th level and all,but she could get it kicking ratfolk in the Scarwall)?Is this her first big mission for H?
I have a question about Zealot,or,to be more specific,Eternal Guardian discipline.
Is there some martial tradition for it?
Same question about Mithral Current.
Although it's an interesting idea... actually repairing...
** spoiler omitted **
The way i see it,
Spoiler:
finding 11-lv magus with very specific archetype that is most likely restricted to Technic League,without attracting attention of said league,then convincing him to be silent about the fact that he just repaired priceless techno-artifact is BY NO MEANS a simple task and,arguably,far harder than buying a wish scroll,and,obviously,could be the focus of multiple adventures.
Along with the fact that reactor isn't even remotely the only thing broken under Torch means that someone,namely,my party,will have their hands full.
Finally,something that mechanically explains proliferation of magus class among Technic League.
Are you talking about the reforge ability?
Correct.
While reforging destroyed....costly big object that is the focus of adventure is for all intents and purposes impossible,repairing it is relatively easy and free.Except like 150 arcana pool points.
this blasted reactor?I assume it's broken,so memory of function RAW works,but what else?How come in 15 years of 3/3.5/PF we do not have reliable way to repair such simple object as fusion reactor?
Remember those bombers that RF supplied to Iraq in a week after signing
contract?
I suspect that those were at low,low price at triple the cost of new.
how far away he was sitting from the air defence training during his military training
In the same building.But then,i asked questions during that time a lot,and also read like five conspects,because my military speciality is pretty close,and i hoped sometime in the future WW3 to stab one of the operators and take his place.
Because i'm obviously better qualified,you see.
It was some time ago,but in the conspects there were pictures,and in one case even colored.
There's also the 'it was like an AA-9' and 'it couldn't have been an AA-9' with just twelve hours between the posts.
Never happened.I'll even quote myself,because i like you a lot.
Vlad Koroboff wrote:
So my money is on AA missile.Close-range,because AA-9 has stupidly powerful warhead,and from 20 meters effects would be about as scary as hit from SA-11.
I just saw a new post where he's claiming that the ~2kg warhead on an AA-11 was the only thing powerful enough to do the job, and that the ~70kg or ~50kg warheads on the other missiles would be too weak.
Oh,so you almost managed to read right this time.
Usagi Yojimbo wrote:
I just saw a new post where he's claiming that the ~2kg warhead on an AA-11 was the only thing weak enough to do the job, and that the ~70kg or ~50kg warheads on the other missiles would be too powerful.
Here.Fixed that for you.
I'm starting to understand why modern movies are explaining EVERYTHING to the audience.
That's because it's required.
But mostly I'm baffled by the insistence that the fragmentation damage proves it wasn't a fragmentation warhead.
And i thought you don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand that.
Okay,i'll try again.
We have huge-ass target flying at a straight line at subsonic speeds,that's literally the best target imaginable.
Under these circumstances,explosion occurs within 15 meters of the target.There's one hundred pounds of explosive(a bit more and a few times more powerful than tnt,but whatever) in the warhead.At this range,PRIMARY damage would be from explosion.Sure there would be fragments,but a few hundred holes doesn't matter when entire front of the plane collapses like accordion.
Fragments in this case,for example,will rip the wings apart.
But plane,according to report,was taken down(!)by high-energy objects,which rule out SA-11.
But AA-11,for example has about four pounds of explosive in the warhead,fifteen
pounds of sharp objects propelled by said explosion,and proximity fuse that triggers at roughly the same distance.
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
I haven't really been paying attention to what you guys have been arguing about
And this thing calls itself Da Goblin?
What kind of goblin isn't interested in the things go boom?!
The Budapest Memorandum should have prevented all of this
It by no means does not prevent internal movements for independence,even if someone actually ratified it.
And of course no-one did.
I do not exactly understand why UK and US are obliged to transform Ukraine to its pre-russian form,but OK.
They're doing great,in any case.
Which is what fragmentation warheads are designed to do.
I'm starting to suspect that you are actually do not know what you are talking about.
There are 40something kilograms of explosive,and not of black powder kind in that warhead,and it detonates within 15 meters from target(you know,the nose of the plane in this case).
Fragmentation is for fast,maneuvering,and speeding away targets.
Usagi Yojimbo wrote:
They take some bludgeoning damage.
It's capped at 20d6.
Numerically speaking,blast speed far exceeds collision speeds.Which provides different picture of damage.
You know how close the explosion was to the plane?
Close enough to trigger explosion,duh.
thejeff wrote:
You know the pattern of the damage? How it spread? The angle of impact of the "multiple high-energy objects"?
I don't need to.Nose(including cocpit),huge,sub-1M target.If it was tail i COULD buy SA-11 at works,but not in these circumstances.
thejeff wrote:
Of course it doesn't matter what they say, because they're just lying, right?
No,what they say means that MSM were lying.As were those politicians who were too trigger-happy to assign the blame.
Well,duh.I didn't learn anything new.
What else i don't buy...i don't actually buy gun-kill.Not according to disclosed radar data.
So my money is on AA missile.Close-range,because AA-9 has stupidly powerful warhead,and from 20 meters effects would be about as scary as hit from SA-11.
Are you seriously suggesting that the "secondary" fragmentation effect would not have an effect on a civilian airliner because they fly slower?
I am seriously suggesting that damage from the blast wave looks differently than described.It not "multiple high-energy penetrators",it's "ENTIRE nose of the plane crushed to pulp in the blink of an eye from a single,powerful blast,oh,and maybe there were some shrapnel".
Should i really describe difference between piercing and bludgeoning damage on THESE forums?
Gods...
