The Fires of Creation (GM Reference)


Iron Gods

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Basically: there were enough enemies with less than the amount of treasures necessary, and more could be afforded for Meyanda without breaking the wealth by level for the PCs.

Or more likely it went in reverse of that, starting with: "We want to give the final boss of the first book a cool high-tech gun" so that the PCs will feel rewarded when they get access to it." Then the inferno pistol was designed, and the treasure of other encounters would likely have been messed with to account for its placement here.

It's a bit overpriced, but that doesn't hugely matter. It's not actually a particularly good item that's going to break any games. It's just meant to be cool and give the PCs early access to a (not-nonlethal) tech gun to play with. Does it make Meyanda go over the amount of wealth she's supposed to have? Yes, but it doesn't provide a particularly significant boost to her power. In other words that increased wealth probably wasn't worth an increase to her CR, because she spent it on something cool rather than on something powerful.

And don't forget that book 2 is really darn low on treasure most of the way through. This helps offset that.


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MasterZelgadis wrote:

Oh my god, we just started playing this campaign, had the second session saturday, and my party made it through the cave, we stopped at the metal doors.

The party consists of:
a half elven sorceress
a human monk
a half elven cleric
a dwarfen fighter
and a gnome druid with a bear pet.

I don't know how a party can be so not-creative :D

The room where the brown mold makes everything cold was a really tough challenge. But not because of the mold itself, the party was so stupid..

"You see a room, covered entirely in brown dust, as you come nearer, you feel that it gets really cold. At the east wall you see a human body"
"Hm..okay..I reach my hand out into the room, does it get colder?"
"Yes, much colder"
"I step into the room"
"[facepalm]..okay, you now feel it's really really cold, your whole body is shivering and you think you can't endure this for a minute longer"
"Hm..I go to the body on that wall and insoect it"
"Okay, you wanted this..3d6=13 non-lethal cold damage"
"What? I am at -4"
"You drop on the floor, unconcious and freezing to death"

After the rest of the party managed to get him out of there, nearly losing the cleric also, a little debate started on how unfair this was and what they were supposed to do.. I simply answered "maybe ask 'what is that brown dust'? After a relatively easy dungeoneering roll I would have said 'This is known as brown mold, it absorbs heat and emits cold, and if you get too close, you are freezing to death!'"

Then after a few more minutes of helplessness I suggested they could of course get back to the inn to recover, and that they are not supposed to explore the whole cave in one run. Such a thing as "go back, recover, come back later" was a fully new and innovative concept to them :D

First time Iran this the PCs threw Fire in the cold room and they all nearly passed out also except for a sorcerer who just happened to be 5 feet back. This is a common theme i am reading.

the second time I did this I let the party create water and make a "ice bridge" to the body then the monk lassoed it and was pulled back. i had to fudge it but these were all new players and they had such a good time being creative with the create water i figure the rule of "yes" worked much better than no.


NerdOfTheYear wrote:

Also a bit of a maps question: How did everyone physically get the Desert Habitat onto a map/table? I'm counting it as 40" and I don't know any maps that go that big.

I'm starting the campaign in a few weeks, and fully expect my players to get to the habitat pretty quickly.

i had the map printed off at kinkos and it was 2 big for their biggest printers. I just had them print it out big as they could and the squares are 1/2 inch. I will have hem move across it with smaller markers and secretly move the skeletons to intercept them.

it is a pretty big map I plan on doing a "zoom in" fight when they find a skeleton on my wet erase map. I am open to suggestions.


ALso,

do you know if PAIZO has a high res "map pack" of all the maps in the AP we could take it to kinkos and have them print it off instead of painstakingly drawing drawing each square?

Sovereign Court

Lobolusk wrote:

ALso,

do you know if PAIZO has a high res "map pack" of all the maps in the AP we could take it to kinkos and have them print it off instead of painstakingly drawing drawing each square?

Yes, they make those for APs: link.


Ascalaphus wrote:
Lobolusk wrote:

ALso,

do you know if PAIZO has a high res "map pack" of all the maps in the AP we could take it to kinkos and have them print it off instead of painstakingly drawing drawing each square?

Yes, they make those for APs: link.

i looked at those and those didn't seem to have all the maps from the APS the interactive Maps do I am hoping those will work.

Sovereign Court

Lord Fyre wrote:

Okay.

On to a different question: As a Lvl 6 NPC, how does Meyanda afford her +1 Inferno Pistol?

At that level an NPC should have no more then 4,650 gold in equipment (Her CR is not adjusted for "extraordinary resources").

However, her ranged weapon is

  • 5,000 for Inferno Pistol (it is not timeworn).
  • 300 for Masterwork
  • 2,000 for +1 enchantment.

    So at 7,300 gold, it is -by itself- almost twice what she should possess.

    Related to this, it is budget busting for the character who gets the weapon, as it is larger then a normal share of treasure at 4th Level (indeed it is larger then the total wealth they should have according to his/her wealth by level).

  • Because she's an NPC and adventure paths don't always have to follow NPC average/preferred gold tables? She has a back story involving a much bigger power, maybe she acquired it through service to that power? Maybe she found it inside the ship?

    Lots of different ideas, pick what works best for you.


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    Just wanted to share how crazy our version of Fires of Creation wound up.

    My party wiped on a pair of robots while exploring the ruins under Torch. TPK.

    Instead of killing them though, I decided to have some fun. Since the robots were insane, they brought the PCs to the operating room and went to work.

    I had one robot surgically combine a druid and his animal companion to essentially make him a "Wolftaur."

    Another robot found a way to download a PC's memories into an empty husk of an android. The character is basically playing a new character - an android who awakens with the life experiences of the other PC burned into her memory.

    An finally, the robots switched the brains of the 3rd PC (an evil Ranger) with their other prisoner - Khonir Baine. During their escape, "Khonir" convinces the party that the ranger betrayed them but is now braindead. The party wound up leaving the helpless K.Baine (trapped in the ranger's body) behind with the cerebic fungus to be devoured while they escape. Whoops.

    That player eventually left the game. So, I had "Khonir Baine" convince the town that there is no chance of reviving the Torch. He takes up a collection and empties what's left of the coffers in a last ditch effort to pay off the Technic League. Of course he's evil, so instead he heads to Scrapwall to hunker down and figure out what to do with his newfound wealth.

    Khonir Baine (or his imposter) has somehow managed to become the party's primary villain and the major hook that is leading the group to Scrapwall.


    Brillant! I am running it under the FATE ruleset and this leads to interesting results, mainly due to the "give up but face some consequences" rule.
    Our first Player death was due to an accident in the environmental hub. So what better way to bring him back than as an undead servitor of the god of accident! He is actually the replacement for Heshuath,as they defeated him quite nicely and broke his curse. Just that this time the Avatar of bad luck will not be locked in the spacecraft.
    The next dead Lady realized that instead of dying, her mortal wounds just triggered her nanite surge. As None of the PC'S has ever met an android before, that lead to some interesting questions, especially as she is realizing that all of her memories of growing up in Torch are false implants.
    And my poor Khonnir Baine died to a self-destructing Collector Robot. I know they don't do that normally, but we were all very much in a battletech mindset (mostly because I used Mechs as minis for the bots)and it just felt right that the downed killer Robot would start a reactor meltdown. What I did not count on was my Players cowardly fleeing the room and leaving poor Khonnir next to the overloading Robot!
    Ah well, they don't mind too much, and I realized that I do not really Need him to be a pivotal part of the Story.


    DerNils wrote:

    Brillant! I am running it under the FATE ruleset and this leads to interesting results, mainly due to the "give up but face some consequences" rule.

    Our first Player death was due to an accident in the environmental hub. So what better way to bring him back than as an undead servitor of the god of accident! He is actually the replacement for Heshuath,as they defeated him quite nicely and broke his curse. Just that this time the Avatar of bad luck will not be locked in the spacecraft.
    The next dead Lady realized that instead of dying, her mortal wounds just triggered her nanite surge. As None of the PC'S has ever met an android before, that lead to some interesting questions, especially as she is realizing that all of her memories of growing up in Torch are false implants.
    And my poor Khonnir Baine died to a self-destructing Collector Robot. I know they don't do that normally, but we were all very much in a battletech mindset (mostly because I used Mechs as minis for the bots)and it just felt right that the downed killer Robot would start a reactor meltdown. What I did not count on was my Players cowardly fleeing the room and leaving poor Khonnir next to the overloading Robot!
    Ah well, they don't mind too much, and I realized that I do not really Need him to be a pivotal part of the Story.

    Are you using Fate Core as-is, or along with the Fate Freeport Companion, or using some other hack?

    Sovereign Court

    I have a question about the inspiration of the story overall. As well as the character Meyanda and Val Baine.

    so Meyanda reminds me of the female heroine in Defiance. Physically and Racially that is.

    The idea of Unity and Divinity strikes me similar to the overarching plotline.

    Val Baine reminds me of the story connections between the Lawkeeper and his lead heroine daughter. Tats what i get from Khonnir Baine and Val Baine.

    any truths to this?

    now as to the subject matter of the discussion

    ***SPOILER***
    i would see Meyanda slowly becoming emotional over time. after book 2 i would see her leaving the party to run Scrapwall as a cohort leader.
    ***SPOILER***

    id say
    Continued progression as a cleric based on book 2 events. However if not actively going with the PCs on adventures past Book 2, like Book 3's racial issues, id recommend ranger and staying in scrapwall.

    a better cohort healer is Dinvaya

    Sovereign Court

    I did however for S&G's make my PC's first characters in book 1 be from the thunderscape RPG list of classes.
    my first group in book 1
    Female Android Golem Mage
    Human Thuderscout
    Human Arbiter
    Gnome Alchemist "Scientist"

    Since then Book 2 we have added
    Winter Elf - From the Realm of the Mammoth Lords - Mad Dog Barbarian, with a tiger instead of a dog.

    The arbiter has stepped out for now to become a cohort later and a Human - 6th lvl Wizard Universalist has stepped in who is also the love interest of the Winter Elf.

    Coming into the game is a Cleric of Brigh, and a new player can't recall his choices.


    Evan Riggs wrote:

    I have a question about the inspiration of the story overall. As well as the character Meyanda and Val Baine.

    so Meyanda reminds me of the female heroine in Defiance. Physically and Racially that is.

    The idea of Unity and Divinity strikes me similar to the overarching plotline.

    Val Baine reminds me of the story connections between the Lawkeeper and his lead heroine daughter. Tats what i get from Khonnir Baine and Val Baine.

    any truths to this?

    The primary inspiration for the crashed space fleet in Numeria was a D&D adventure from 1980, Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. Adventurers explored a crashed flying saucer. Paizo decided that they would have a similar setting mixing fantasy and science fiction, so they invented Numeria. That country was described briefly on pages 114 and 115 of Pathfinder Chronicles: Campaign Setting, copyright 2008, and repeated in Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea World Guide, released in March 2011.

    Playable details of Numeria finally appeared in Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Numeria, Land of the Fallen Stars, released in June 2014, and Pathfinder Adventure Path: Fires of Creation, released in August 2014.

    I never saw the Defiance TV show, but Wikipedia tells me it premiered on April 15, 2013, so it could have influenced the Iron Gods adventure path.

    Expedition to the Barrier Peaks was a one-shot adventure that gave the players overpowered technological weapons. Paizo wanted Numeria to be a permanent part of their campaign world Golarion, so they invented ways to keep the recovered alien technology from spreading across the world. Mostly, it requires batteries that are hard to recharge outside Numeria. And the land is filled with technology-hating barbarians who buried most of the alien debris, followed by Technic League wizards who wanted a monopoly on it.

    Defiance, in contrast, seems set on a post-apocalyptic Earth. People have not had time to adjust to the changes wrought by the crash of the alien Votan fleet.

    Yet consider the traits of a post-apocalytic setting. The land itself is damaged, either semi-arid wasteland where little grows, or fertile ground rendered too dangerous to humans due to radiation or mutant beasts. Brutal barbarians have replaced civilization. People fight over the last scraps of working technology. And old folk or historians talk of the days before everything fell apart. Numeria matches the first three of those four traits. The place looks post-apocalytic, even though the Numerian crash happened millennia ago and the barbarians rule simply because barbarians usually rule the northern lands.

    The Wikipedia article on Defiance mentions Lawgiver Joshua Nolan and his adopted Irathient daughter Irisa. I treated Khonnir Baine as a helpful slightly-absent-minded inventor, but the module gives enough freedom that he could serve as the local sheriff if the GM wants. That would be a fun interpretation. I increased Val Baine's age to 17 and gave her a bloodrager bloodline originating from alien influence, which coincidentally seems to emphasize her similarity to Irisa. I don't know who the "female heroine" is, but the pictures of Dr. Yewll look like Meyanda.


    IN Garmen Umens Wharehouse where is the transmitter located? in the book it says it is clearly marked on the map? am I missing something?


    Seems to be a mistake. Just pick one random box


    Lobolusk wrote:
    IN Garmen Umens Wharehouse where is the transmitter located? in the book it says it is clearly marked on the map? am I missing something?

    James Jacobs actually addressed this upthread if you're interested.


    How do you handle the fight with Vrilledt? He took the Light Hammer +1 from the Brigh cult leader. But that was a normal medium human, Vrilledt is a small creature. He would have to wield the hammer double handed, but then his claw attack (with the chance of infection) would be impossible. But without that chance of infection, he is harmless.


    MasterZelgadis wrote:
    How do you handle the fight with Vrilledt? He took the Light Hammer +1 from the Brigh cult leader. But that was a normal medium human, Vrilledt is a small creature. He would have to wield the hammer double handed, but then his claw attack (with the chance of infection) would be impossible. But without that chance of infection, he is harmless.

    A light hammer is a light melee weapon, which Vrilledt can wield as a one-handed weapon, so no problems.


    Ah, ok, so for a small creature a light weapon of medium size becomes a one handed melee for him, a one handed melee would become two handed?


    @redrobe Sorry for the late answer, we use Fate Core, Some Malmsturm (german fantasy FATE) and a bit of the Pathfinder/FATE page accelerated for inspiration on monster writeups and magic.
    My main problem with FATE is honestly interesting conflicts that don't devolve into "I spam my FATE points into my Swordsman Aspect", but that is a FATE thing overall, I guess.
    More on topic, I need my players to get my players mre inspiration on the barbarians, and actually some more interaction with the tribes. From just running through I acutally felt a certain absence of the nominally ruling barbarians in the AP.
    Any ideas for fun interactions/encounters with barbarians?


    MasterZelgadis wrote:
    Ah, ok, so for a small creature a light weapon of medium size becomes a one handed melee for him, a one handed melee would become two handed?

    Yep


    Thanks!

    Sovereign Court

    DerNils wrote:

    @redrobe Sorry for the late answer, we use Fate Core, Some Malmsturm (german fantasy FATE) and a bit of the Pathfinder/FATE page accelerated for inspiration on monster writeups and magic.

    My main problem with FATE is honestly interesting conflicts that don't devolve into "I spam my FATE points into my Swordsman Aspect", but that is a FATE thing overall, I guess.
    More on topic, I need my players to get my players mre inspiration on the barbarians, and actually some more interaction with the tribes. From just running through I acutally felt a certain absence of the nominally ruling barbarians in the AP.
    Any ideas for fun interactions/encounters with barbarians?

    I felt the same absence, still want to make a sideplot with that. But for starters, check out the following:

    - The Numeria, Land of Fallen Stars setting book. It has a spread on the different tribes.
    - The Wardens of Sulfur Gulch adventure, which has a few encounters with Ghost Wolves in it. They're interesting because they're conspicuously magic-friendly barbarians. (They use magic against tech.)


    Hi all!
    Got a question – Where are the rest from Khonnir party? I have found poor Gerrol and Khonnir himself. But where are remains and gear from other party members? Or they were party of two? And crush four robots in north corridor?


    Unit 01 wrote:

    Hi all!

    Got a question – Where are the rest from Khonnir party? I have found poor Gerrol and Khonnir himself. But where are remains and gear from other party members? Or they were party of two? And crush four robots in north corridor?

    The module did not mention them. I put their dead bodies on the beds in the Sick Bay, along wwith Khonnir. The description for that room said, "Creatures: The malfunctioning robots have been using this room to store their 'patients' and to remain on standby until needed." I assumed a party of five: Khonnir, Gerrol, and three others.

    Also missing were the bodies of the crew. They should have left skeletons or mummues behind. I stacked those bodies from the Science Deck in the Sick Bay, too. It was very crowded. I never explained the lack of crew bodies on the Engineering deck, but I presume that Meyanda's people disposed of them somehow.

    Also related to dead bodies, I roleplayed that the local cleric of Pharasma, Mylan Radli, was upset that the third expedition, led by Khonnir, had not retreived the bodies from the first two expeditions. This time, for the sixth expedition, he offered to pay the party for all bodies they brought back: 25 gp or a potion of cure light wounds for each body. And he paid in advance with three potions (the party lacked a cleric) and gave them body bags.

    Dark Archive

    So uh, where does Sanvil Trett's hp come from?

    I mean he doesn't have toughnes so seems like he has couple of extra hp unless I calculated wrong .-.

    Pity that there isn't errata thread for all aps :'D Its really handy to check AE's errata thread to see if I'm undertanding rules wrong or if there is an error


    Trett has 25hp with a 12 Con. That's (4d8+4); taking average hp after 1st level (All characters with class levels get max hp at 1st level) gives:
    8 + 4.5 + 4.5 + 4.5 + 4 = 25.5
    So his hp are spot on.

    Dark Archive

    Quantum Steve wrote:

    Trett has 25hp with a 12 Con. That's (4d8+4); taking average hp after 1st level (All characters with class levels get max hp at 1st level) gives:

    8 + 4.5 + 4.5 + 4.5 + 4 = 25.5
    So his hp are spot on.

    Umm, but he has con 10 according to the book

    Contributor, RPG Superstar 2009, RPG Superstar Judgernaut

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    It's probably just an oversight during development. Trett's statistics changed a bit from my original turnover (which is perfectly understandable and often happens before a manuscript sees publication). Originally, Trett had 28 hp derived from a 10 Con, the Toughness feat, +1 hp per favored class level, and a potion of aid which he drank as part of his Before Combat tactics. Without the potion, his base statistics had him at 23 hp.

    In the printed version of Trett, his Toughness feat got swapped out, so that bumped him from 28 hp down to 25 hp. After that, the potion of aid was also removed from his Before Combat tactics, but it appears the total hit points weren't adjusted for it (which would have brought him down to 20 hp). Regardless, it's a difference of 5 hit points, so it's not a huge deal. Most GMs should be able to roll with that, and it's not a bad idea to give Trett a little more power so he can challenge the PCs.

    Hope that helps,
    --Neil


    CorvusMask wrote:
    Quantum Steve wrote:

    Trett has 25hp with a 12 Con. That's (4d8+4); taking average hp after 1st level (All characters with class levels get max hp at 1st level) gives:

    8 + 4.5 + 4.5 + 4.5 + 4 = 25.5
    So his hp are spot on.
    Umm, but he has con 10 according to the book

    FCB. Everyone always forgets FCB.

    4d8+4 from FCB.

    Actually, doing his skills, his Engineering skill is off by three. Maybe Skill Focus never got added. He should have a +14 Knowledge (Engineering); or just give him back Toughness.

    Edit: NM not a class skill. I'm dumb

    Dark Archive

    Oh, right favored class bonus ._.;

    Well to be fair, its easy to forget since its hard to tell when npc has its fcb put into skills rather than hp without counting if you aren't fast calculating in your head

    Dark Archive

    So umm, you guys have any idea how researching/identifying artifacts work?

    Also, if I want advice on how to handle a situation, should I make new thread or use gm reference thread? I'm not actually completely sure what reference threads are for ^_^;

    So like, my party decided after they got power relay that instead heading to the dungeon(to be fair, while nobody has died, they have gotten some of their asses kicked :D this IS pretty hardcore ap even though I haven't adjusted enemy amount for six pcs at all) that they want to fortify at Foundry Tavern and ambush Meyanda when she tries to get relay back. Mainly because they found it funny idea to have bbeg go to their "dungeon" instead of other way around.

    So uh, let's just say it directly: I'm bad with tactics and strategy, so I'm not really sure how would 4 half orcs, 7 ratfolks, 4 thylacines, 1 collector robot, 1 gargoyle and ms high priest of god of cheese & ham try to do to get back relay. Also not sure how much I should allow for players to do. Like, I'd figured out I should allow Khonnir to join them in fight, but Joram & Dolga would be stretching it too far probably and Khonnir probably wouldn't want to involve others anyway.


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    CorvusMask wrote:

    ... my party decided after they got power relay that instead heading to the dungeon(to be fair, while nobody has died, they have gotten some of their asses kicked :D this IS pretty hardcore ap even though I haven't adjusted enemy amount for six pcs at all) that they want to fortify at Foundry Tavern and ambush Meyanda when she tries to get relay back. Mainly because they found it funny idea to have bbeg go to their "dungeon" instead of other way around.

    So uh, let's just say it directly: I'm bad with tactics and strategy, so I'm not really sure how would 4 half orcs, 7 ratfolks, 4 thylacines, 1 collector robot, 1 gargoyle and ms high priest of god of cheese & ham try to do to get back relay. Also not sure how much I should allow for players to do. Like, I'd figured out I should allow Khonnir to join them in fight, but Joram & Dolga would be stretching it too far probably and Khonnir probably wouldn't want to involve others anyway.

    First, androids, half-orcs, ratfolk, gargoyles, and robots have darkvision. Therefore, a night attack would favor Meyanda's team.

    Second, Gruethur and the collector robot can fly. If Meyanda can lure the party out into the open air , then her group will have even more of an advantage. To take further advantage of open spaces, steal (or even buy) some bows and arrows for the half-orc Scrapwall Fanatics.

    The thylacines lack darkvision, so they are expendible in the first attack inside the Foundry Tavern. Have the Scrapwall Fanatics brek the door open and send in the thylacines to trap the people inside (reverse psychology: try to keep them inside so that they will rush out) while the fanatics shoot at them from outside the doorway. Meanwhile, Meyanda, Gruethur, and the collector robot wait on the roof. The fanatics are instructed to retreat to the limits of their vision to lure the party farther from the tavern. Gruethur and the collector robot can drop behind the party once they are outside. Meyanda will shoot from the roof.

    The ratfolk scrappers stay hidden. Their job is to sneak into the tavern and steal back the power relay. Send all 7 on that job in case the party is smart enough to leave a guard on the power relay. They can also extinguish all the lights inside. Once the power relay is retrieved, Meyanda will be willing to retreat. She will hide it somewhere else and return to the reactor room.

    Of course, the party might have their own members with darkvision or flight, but Meyanda does not know that. Let her plan unravel badly if the PCs outsmart her.

    Leaving Joram and Dolga out is best for you as a GM. Playing friendly NPCs distracts from playing the hostile NPCs. Khonnir owns the Foundry Tavern, so he will refuse to leave. The PCs do need some help, because they were supposed to meet these opponents in three or four separate encounters, not all working together with a plan.

    Dark Archive

    Yeaaah, the party is five humans and one android :D So the lack of dark vision is a thing

    Ok. Would it be good idea for roof team to pick different building than the one players are camping in? I'm not sure which one they are planning to use(I left before I heard their planning), but I'd assume since they have to leave lights on its not too hard to figure out.

    Anyway, thank you very much, that really helps me out :)

    Sczarni

    Running this with three plant people Unity made to aid her in recovering any extra parts they can. They are basically clone plant people (who are slowly growing into their skin). Dressed in zippered suits, they stand out a little. Being all techslinger gunslingers to start they really stand out. But Torch needs heroes, and they are pretty much willing to just jump in and help (True N, no, not a PFS campaign run).

    They had fun walking to Torch from the teleport location. Killed a few grubs along the way. Jumped a river (10'). Lost the gremlin that was following them waiting for them to sleep (they are plants, they don't sleep) when he tried to jump the river and rolled a 4... poor fella drowned... They never even knew they had a tail for half a day. Oh, and 2 out of three of them got fatigued from the forced march. They got hungry. Thank goodness for that kind fella at the gambling house... 6 course meal for a gp, seemed cheap at the time.

    The first droid took a shot from all three of their pistols before going down. Good teamwork!

    It should be interesting to see what they get into with the Blindhiem as they all have "see in any darkness" coupled with light sensitivity (just a few of their racial traits). And they'll want to lower the lights on the ship when they get there as well.

    Unity has equipped them with knowledge of the language, so they can read the signs, and press the right buttons. And they are plants, so there are some things that won't even attack them (or will ask for help from them). And the Robit gearsman at the end? They might just be able to convince it to go with them or stay put. We will see, since he's not a friendly Robit. All Praise Unity! They might manage something.

    It will be interesting to see if they stay in keeping with the Unity is our deity thing or not. If not, I guess this simulation will fail. All praise Unity!

    Sczarni

    Unit 01 wrote:

    Hi all!

    Got a question – Where are the rest from Khonnir party? I have found poor Gerrol and Khonnir himself. But where are remains and gear from other party members? Or they were party of two? And crush four robots in north corridor?

    They all had their go on the hospital beds, according to the module's text. Which means, basically, they are little bitty bits on the floor. Also there are bodies stuffed in the statis pods from the failed fight against the russet mold / veggypigmies (that might be them, I'd have to re-read).

    Dark Archive

    ? Doesn't Fire of Creation feature more Hellion than Unity? I'm bit lost here


    CorvusMask wrote:
    ? Doesn't Fire of Creation feature more Hellion than Unity? I'm bit lost here

    I think maouse is saying that the PCs in his campaign are three plant people created by Unity and he had them walk from Silver Mount to Torch as a preliminary adventure.

    That should work was well as any party until the 6th module, where he runs the risk of them returning home still happy to serve Unity.


    My party just had the big fight with Meyanda in town (because they stole the power relay and every time they fight something they rest for 1-2 days because they are rather poorly balanced) and I wanted to share how I set it up, because it went pretty awesome.

    Meyanda tracks down where the relay is using locate item and kidnaps Val in the night. The party wakes the next morning to the sound of a screaming little girl coming from the foundry next door to the tavern. They enter the foundry to find Meyanda on the upper platform with her gun to Val's head offering to trade the girl for the relay. With her is her collector drone and the 2 remaining scrapwall fanatics that weren't sent on the initial scouting mission when the relay was turned off.

    Paladin is about to try negotiation when the barbarian yells "NO NEGOTIATIONS!" and charges in, roll initiative.

    Paladin takes attacks from the collector drone, searing light from Meyanda, and a sneak attack from one of the fanatics and drops unconscious in the first or second round. Drone picks him up and hovers with him 15 feet above one of the glowing forge pits, and Meyanda has a second hostage.

    Barbarian pulls out the relay, runs to the other forge pit, and holds it over the pit for a Mexican standoff.

    Meyanda decides not to play and sends a fanatic to grab the relay. Barbarian drops the relay into the hot forge. I give it 6 rounds before it's destroyed, each round adds 10% to the burnout chance if it's recovered before it's destroyed.

    I ask the party to call high or low, they go high, I roll a 28 on a d100 in front of the party.

    Meyanda executes Val.

    Meyanda sends the collector drone to get the relay out of the forge, it drops the pally into the forge it's hovering over and dives for it. Barbarian aces the drone with an attack of opportunity and yanks the relay back out of the forge.

    Battle proceeds, etc. etc. heroes win. Paladin's smite evil works on Meyanda because executing a child shifted her alignment to CE. Paladin wants to try to redeem her, so she's kept alive as a prisoner. End of session.

    Next session they'll interrogate her and decide her fate. Khonnir will ask them to use their shiny new scroll of resurrection to bring Val back. If they won't, Joram will use his raise dead scroll instead, but Val will be frail and sickly for the rest of her life due to the lower quality of rez.

    Either way, Khonnir wants Meyanda executed for her crime, Joram wants her to go through android renewal and be reset to a blank slate. Party can use diplomacy to convince the remaining 3 council members to vote how they want.

    I can't wait for next session!


    This is my first time being DM. I have played for a while but I'm still not super familiar with a lot of the rules and intricacies of the game. My party just finished the Habitat Module and are about to head to the Science Dec after some time in town. I've got a while before we play again and I was told to look on here for some ideas of how to DM and what other people have done with this campaign. After Reading some posts a story stuck in my head and I took about two hours to write it out. I was wondering if you guys could tell me what you think. (Sorry this is so long)

    Backstory: Team has been doing pretty good with an Alchemist, Gunslinger and Barbarian. Almost Killed the Barbarian with Hetuath and almost knocked them all out with the brown Mold. No real major relations in town, and just introduced them to Sanvil. Only the Barbarian likes to Gamble and has made his face well known at the Silver Disk Hall.

    I'm going to start this next part just before they go down to the Caverns for the Science Deck.

    Sanvil Trett: Will give the PC's a really good deal on any technological items they want to sell to him as well as a discount in buying them. Changing tactics He wants to know if the players will let him follow them down into the tunnels to get a look for himself as to what all the stuff down there is. He wont be much use in a fight but he can defend himself well enough. but he is willing to pay them to take him down there and he will stay out of their way as well as letting them have first pick of all the loot that they find.

    Offers to Drink and gamble with Barbarian, then offers to take him to a brothel and have a good time. He tells Barbarian that there is something strange about Garmen, but he isn't sure what yet, but that when he finds out more he will tell Tandy (Can be used as a bargaining chip if the team doesn't let him come down with them)

    After they find Konner Bain. Invites Barbarian to go drinking and gambling with him. First round is on Sanvil. He invites Barbarian to the Merry Maid (Owned by Garmen by proxy) Below the that he knows to discuss some of his rumors and suspicions. When they go there Sanvil talks about how Garmen has a warehouse at the end of town he is very secretive about and that Sanvil found out he owns. He tries to convice Barbarian to go there and check it out with him.

    If Barbarian goes: He will be surrounded and beaten down until he surrenders( Or miraculously kills them all) (Keeps his armor but no weapon)

    If Barbarian doesn't go: Wrennie Dalrorn who is a half-elf and in charge of the entertainment here comes up and thanks Barbarian for his help in rescuing Khonnir (Or at least bringing back his body) she talks about how brave and great he is and offers him a special for these great Deeds (50GP for two girls for two hours)The hookers attempts bondage with the ion tape. Once Barbarian is bound one jolts it to lock him to the metal bed. The other binds the one on his feet. One goes up to tell what has happened. Once he has been subdued he can be held as a prisoner. If necessary he can be drugged to be very truthful about everything he knows. Eventually Sanvil disappears and goes to Garmen. Ropefist thugs enter to and knock him unconscoius. He is then transported to the warehouse. (Naked)

    Middle of the night Gunslinger and Alchemist are awoken by some thugs who deliver the message that Tandy is being held for a ransom. If they want their friend back they should follow to the warehouse.

    Garmen/Sanvil/ and some ropefist thugs are in there ready to take them on. Sanvil greets them cheerily and mocks them for leaving their fool of a friend to let himself be trapped. He proceeds to thank them for all the information that they have given about the underground area and that he will be happy to report to the Technic League all that he has found.

    If fight goes bad Sanvil heads to the Technic League and reports his findings, Garmen retreats with any possible Ropefists and returns to Silver Disk Hall. If given more than a day to recover he will come back with twice as many Ropefists.

    Him and Garmen Ulreth have already set up a small plan for eliminating the characters. Sanvil has confided he is working for the technic league and Garmen lets him know that there is a very interesting reason why the Torch went out. He hasn't divulged everything only that "My Client" has paid me to place this item in the warehouse and keep it running. They plan on finishing their shenanigans here and then they will move on to the Technic League and hopefully grow in their ranks.


    Dave the Dwarven Fighter wrote:
    If Barbarian goes: He will be surrounded and beaten down until he surrenders( Or miraculously kills them all) (Keeps his armor but no weapon)

    Is the barbarian a Core Rulebook barbarian or a Pathfinder Unchained barbarian? PCs hate to surrender. They tend to fight until knocked unconscious. And knocking a Core Rulebook barbarian unconscious could kill him. A 2nd-level barbarian gets 8 extra hit points from raging, and loses them when knocked out.

    Thus, your thugs would have to deal some nonlethal damage to take the barbarian alive, which gives them a -4 penalty to hit. Your barbarian would have a good chance of winning.

    In addition, players have a knack for derailing detailed plans like yours, sometimes by being smart and sometimes by being stupid.

    Sovereign Court

    2 people marked this as a favorite.

    It's good to have a plan for just in case you manage to capture-instead-of-kill a PC, but don't make it your main plan because it's a very rare occurrence. Even when you're trying to make it happen.

    If you want to have a "beaten, tortured, rescued" story (which can be a good story!), it may be better to take the barbarian player into another room, tell him roughly what you want to do, and ask him to agree that "we didn't roll, but this is the story of how it went".

    Part of asking the player to agree to "losing off-screen" like that, is a guarantee from you that he won't be punished for it. So he doesn't permanently lose nice gear from it for example; the thugs "just happened" to store it in the next room where the party can easily find it, and the other PCs storm into the room "just before" finger-chopping was about to begin.


    Just writing this out since I haven't seen it here, and the players and I spent the evening tracking it down while we were talking about our game...

    According to the adventure:

    Quote:
    "Characters without the Technologist feat take the normal -5 penalty on technology related checks
    Quote:
    As noted on the sidebar (referring to the above), unless a character has an e-pick or the Technologist feat, technological locks impose a -5 penalty on Disable Device checks

    According to the player's guide/Technology Guide/PRD:

    Quote:

    Technologist

    Benefit: You are considered to be trained in any skill used against a technology-based subject. If the skill in question requires training to use even against non-technological subjects, you must still have ranks in that skill in order to gain the benefit of Technologist.

    Normal: You treat all skill checks made against technology as if they were untrained skill checks. This may mean that you cannot attempt certain skill checks, even if you possess ranks in the skill in question.

    Disable Device is Trained Only (Along with Knowledge (engineering); no guessing about the nature of lost technology, I suppose)! It's easy enough to house rule if you want to allow for some lucky rolls, but RAW it doesn't seem like anyone would be able to disable technological traps or pick technological locks at all without the Technologist feat. The player's guide mentions a -5 penalty, but only in the context of attempting Disable Device without an e-pick.

    Assuming I understand the feat correctly, you would not necessarily receive a "-5 penalty to technology related checks" without it, you would lose your ranks and possibly your class skill bonus. Notably there is an exception allowing the very last skill check in the adventure to be attempted untrained. You can even take 20, assuming you can spend 200 minutes on it. :P

    Sovereign Court

    Looks like some mixup on the editor's side. Clearly it's a contradiction (take a penalty, but also be unable to try the roll at all?).


    Turns out my Barbarian (drunken brawler I believe is the archetype) didn't even show up for the session. Turned out to be a very interesting night as our alchemist, gunslinger, and oracle of bones were unable to deal almost any damage to the collector robot, who managed to grapple two characters and begin to throw them in stasis pods for "Later Examination", and they had to rely on solid bribery of Sanvil Trett to get him to take it down. This gave an interesting twist to the story when they offered him half their technological items and the two robots they destroyed to be used as ransom for their own lives. They have had several chances to catch him bluffing and did once but didn't seem to care all that much. Im going to give them one last shot to stop him and question him before he bounces from town bringing his prizes and even possibly the news that Khonnir Baine still lives to the Technic League. He will leave them a note with all of this wonderful information if he gets the chance to bounce. Should be an interesting next session...

    Liberty's Edge

    I just ran the first Ghelarn fight, nearly killed the party. I ran it with the creature using its shell each round after attacking (I ruled it could not make attacks of opportunity when in the shell to make it a bit more fair) The heavy hitter was entrapped on round 2, the Gunslinger took two tentacles with one crit for 21 Damage total. The Bard was entrapped as well leaving a Burned Oracle who tried Burning Hands on the monster but its fire resist ignored it. The Heavy hitter broke out on a good roll and was able to smack it a bit and take it down. they cheered like they beat the boss for the level. They have no idea there is a stronger Ghelarn further in the ship.

    When they attacked Jazvit the Jinkin Gremlin he tried to bribe his way out because they had cold iron weapons and cut though his other gremlins, he dimension doored away and they could not find him. I figure he will harass them for trying to murder him.

    I have one player who really wants to try the Strange fluids, I keep "suggesting" he try some. I made sure to show the dangers with the dwarf who nearly died so he knows the risks, but he has said if ever he is going to die he will chug a flask.

    The Players seem to like it so far, they do not trust Sanvill in the slightest.


    I'm in need of some advice. My party is currently in the science deck and they've started to get into the habit of going back to the room where they reset the desert module to rest and recover spells after each battle because the witch they have ends up using all of her spells for that battle. I can understand that they don't want to go all the way back to Torch but I don't want them to just Retreat after every encounter. What are some options to get them to push on and try to explore more than one or two rooms every 8 hours? Hetauth is still alive (Rouge managed to sneak around and grabbed the keycard to move to the next area while Hetauth was busy killing two other PC's. He's currently sitting in his throne room waiting for the party to return.) They have broken the curse so I could have him go poking around the area a bit once he realizes that his minions haven't respawned.


    Sky_rider19 wrote:
    I'm in need of some advice. My party is currently in the science deck and they've started to get into the habit of going back to the room where they reset the desert module to rest and recover spells after each battle because the witch they have ends up using all of her spells for that battle. I can understand that they don't want to go all the way back to Torch but I don't want them to just Retreat after every encounter. What are some options to get them to push on and try to explore more than one or two rooms every 8 hours? Hetauth is still alive (Rouge managed to sneak around and grabbed the keycard to move to the next area while Hetauth was busy killing two other PC's. He's currently sitting in his throne room waiting for the party to return.) They have broken the curse so I could have him go poking around the area a bit once he realizes that his minions haven't respawned.

    The standard method to prevent overnight camping in a hostile environment is wandering monsters. Gremlins are known in that area, so a band of gremlins attacking in the night would be perfectly plausible.

    However, you could try a carrot instead of a stick. They haven't found Khonnir Baine yet, right? Have another member of Khonnir's party survive and she has been slowly dragging herself toward the exit with two broken legs. She tells the party that Khonnir was still alive yesterday, because she could hear his screams in the distance as the medical drone surgically probed him. (I had the robots refer to anyone using magic as a "meta-anomaly" and want to vivisect them. My party spoke Androffan.) Each night they spend resting is another day Khonnir spends in pain and might die. Perhaps roleplayed compassion will be enough. The survivor, let's call her Viv, was unconscious under a broken robot and woke up only yesterday. She curses the party upon learning that they could have rescued her yesterday, but then apologizes and explains she is in terrible pain and not thinking straight.

    Try to break them of the habit of retreating to a bad hiding spot before they reach the Engineering Deck. Meyanda is savvy enough to send out a well-armed search party if someone attacked the perimeter of her area and then retreated overnight.

    Sovereign Court

    This sounds like the typical 15 minute adventuring day problem. The best fix for that is "we have to meet a deadline so we can't stop too often".

    Talk with your players OOC. Explain to them that the game assumes multiple encounters per day and that you ration your spells across all of them. Also ask them, "how long do you think Khonnir will survive waiting to be rescued?"

    RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

    Sky_rider19 wrote:
    I'm in need of some advice.

    Another option I used is to offer a higher reward for faster rescuing.

    My party of course wanted more gold for the job, so the councilwoman told them if you rescue Khonnir in 48 hours they'll add an addition 1000 gp to the reward.
    And for re-lighting the torch, I also gave them a gold bonus for a quick resolution.

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