The intimidate version of this feat seams insanely good.
I assume that if they are hit by an attack of oppertunity it breaks the effect but even that is just crazy good. Even against melee target you can force them to move and give up a full attack.
Is there a consenses on how to run this feat? What does PFS do?
I saw several very long threads on this but I do not want to wade through 1000s of post to find what I am looking for.
I can see force them to target you with penalties for how stupid it is to for them to do so but why would a mage ever resort to melee when then want see some one dead?
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Drawbacks:
-It's always a standard action.
-Target must speak your language and understand you and have INT > 3.
-For most melee characters, this means that creatures that do not speak Common or their native language will not be able to be Antagonized due to language barriers
-Immune to mind-affecting effects = immune to Antagonize.
-Therefore most animals, some magical beasts, all undead and all elementals and the like are 100% immune to Antagonize.
-The reprisal attack can be AoE, ranged or spell. It *does not* have to be a melee attack, as per the original text.
-Antagonize's effect immediately and automatically ends (is canceled, with no retry) if the creature cannot attack or it would be in danger by attacking
-Creature wouldnt EVER eat AoOs or damage just to fulfill Antagonize
-Effect ends as soon as the creature attacks the user.
-Antagonize has NO retry, and it is 1/day per target. It cannot be extended beyond 1 turn. Failure means it cannot be targeted again on the same guy.
My 2 copper: Most DMs run antagonize wrong. Make sure you see the errata'd version on the Pathfinder SRD site. It's a beefed up "taunt" ability. It isn't as good as most people believe. Sadly, even in Society, most DMs don't run it correctly.
That's a very good description.
Except one thing. Intelligent undead aren't immune to mind-affecting, are they?
I may be wrong.
bigrig107 wrote: That's a very good description.
Except one thing. Intelligent undead aren't immune to mind-affecting, are they?
I may be wrong.
SRD specifies "Immunity to all mind-affecting effects" and makes no distinction for unintelligent undead. I think we can agree that this is just a perk of being undead, since they are technically animated by negative energy and intelligence (apparently) doesn't imply a mind.
On second glance, Oozes, Plants and Constructs are also immune to Antagonize. Seems that Qlippoth and some other subtypes of outsiders (including demons) are also immune to Antagonize...
One interesting difference from 3.5 edition: Fear immune != Antagonize immune. Intimidate can still be used on fear immune creatures, apparently. If you're looking for a quick and effective nerf, just tell them it's a house rule that it doesn't work on fear immune creatures. Of course, you may let them swap out the feat if you go that route... My 2 copper.
taldanrebel2187 wrote:
-Antagonize has NO retry, and it is 1/day per target. It cannot be extended beyond 1 turn. Failure means it cannot be targeted again on the same guy.
My 2 copper: Most DMs run antagonize wrong. Make sure you see the errata'd version on the Pathfinder SRD site. It's a beefed up "taunt" ability. It isn't as good as most people believe. Sadly, even in Society, most DMs don't run it correctly.
I read my name so I had to come over.
Most of what you wrote is correct, but the 1/day is only true for the intimidate part.
The diplomacy version is best used in combination with broken wing gambit. If they attack someone else they get -2, if they attack you they get a bonus and provoke.
Or for a bard. Give him a good armor, shield, the flagbearer feat and antagonize. For safety add toughness. Then just stand there (in the back row) and buff your party via inspire courage and flagbearer and at the same time debuff the enemy via the diplomacy part of antagonize.
As i recall they erratta'd that feat.
It's current form exists as Antagonize
Currently, it is no longer just a melee attack. It is 1/day for a ranged attack, a melee attack, or being included in a spell.
Interesting that this is a feat.
We've been doing this untrained for the longest time with a bluff/intimidate/diplomacy check. Really it's just a thinly veiled excuse to curse at and make fun of the DM.
Mage Evolving wrote: Interesting that this is a feat.
We've been doing this untrained for the longest time with a bluff/intimidate/diplomacy check. Really it's just a thinly veiled excuse to curse at and make fun of the DM.
Honestly I think that this is the only reason why I don't like this feat. post erratta I haven't had much luck with it because there are too many things I'd rather do with a standard action.
My2Copper wrote: taldanrebel2187 wrote:
-Antagonize has NO retry, and it is 1/day per target. It cannot be extended beyond 1 turn. Failure means it cannot be targeted again on the same guy.
My 2 copper: Most DMs run antagonize wrong. Make sure you see the errata'd version on the Pathfinder SRD site. It's a beefed up "taunt" ability. It isn't as good as most people believe. Sadly, even in Society, most DMs don't run it correctly.
I read my name so I had to come over.
Most of what you wrote is correct, but the 1/day is only true for the intimidate part.
The diplomacy version is best used in combination with broken wing gambit. If they attack someone else they get -2, if they attack you they get a bonus and provoke.
Or for a bard. Give him a good armor, shield, the flagbearer feat and antagonize. For safety add toughness. Then just stand there (in the back row) and buff your party via inspire courage and flagbearer and at the same time debuff the enemy via the diplomacy part of antagonize. Well if you want to drive a truck through the gaping hole that is Antagonize, you could be invisible and taunt the enemy heh. Or throw a battle cleric up and put a (persistent) Grace or Sanctuary up as well. Might end up with James Jacobs' team of ninja assassins outside your room though...
The effect ends immediately if it can't attack you.
Thomas Long 175 wrote: The effect ends immediately if it can't attack you. If it can not attack you in the round of its duration you can make a check to increase the duration for another round.
And even that is only for the intimidate part, not the diplomacy part.
taldanrebel2187 wrote:
SRD specifies "Immunity to all mind-affecting effects" and makes no distinction for unintelligent undead. I think we can agree that this is just a perk of being undead, since they are technically animated by negative energy and intelligence (apparently) doesn't imply a mind.
Well, it's not 100% a perk.
There's a a few really good Morale bonuses in the game, and other beneficial Mind Affecting spells.
Thomas Long 175 wrote: The effect ends immediately if it can't attack you. Technically, it would end if they can't attempt to attack you. You can still swing at an invisible target, just with a huge penalty.
Mathius, pay attention to what TaldenRebel said. That's probably the most accurate summation of the limitations of antagonize. It's not that good, and it sounds like your players found the pre-errata version which specified melee attack. Since that was changed and allows any form of attack that targets the user it's not as good. Not to mention the standard action usage (there are probably better things you could be doing with a standard action) and limited duration (two turns at best) make is meh.
Let your players use it, but you should explain all the limitations to it and the errata on the feat before they do so. Otherwise they might be upset when their new feat doesn't work the way they expect it to.
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