I'm going to toss in my guess, sticking with my theory of a return to Varisia at some point during the AP (for the magical 100th anniversary) - my theory being a Return to the Crimson Throne, and potential return of Kazavon (because shouldn't there be a big bad dragon for the 100th anniversary running amuck?).
So, AP starts in Taldor, city of Oppara, where some wizard has been mucking around with the Tailbones of Kazavon, and well, something starts to go wrong....
How's that for an off-the-wall guess? ;-p
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people change:) have you asked him recently his feelings on Dwarves?
and no i have not, and yes i'm a dwarf fan and would love a Dwarf-centric story line:)Dwarf AP
1: Beer, orcs
2: Beer, orcs
3: Beer, orcs
4: Beer, orcs
5: Beer, orcs
6: Hangover
there is more variety to dwarves
my best guess it would look more like1: Beer, Elves and Goblins
2: whiskey, Orcs
3. Goldschlager, ogres
4. Gin, giants
5. Absinthe (absinthe is a monster type in and of itself
6. Rum and Rakshasa (even dwarves need a vacation somewhere warm:)
There is no word in Dwarven Vocabulary for "Hangover", as such they never have any
tho if you must it could be in the continuing the campaign article ("Egads what is this curse that Evil Elf cast on us! Kyonin must fall!")
Seems like dwarves will play a big role in Giantslayer, leaving room room for something else to come after.
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people change:) have you asked him recently his feelings on Dwarves?
and no i have not, and yes i'm a dwarf fan and would love a Dwarf-centric story line:)Dwarf AP
1: Beer, orcs
2: Beer, orcs
3: Beer, orcs
4: Beer, orcs
5: Beer, orcs
6: Hangover
Paizo usually invests much in creating belivable background to each AP they make. As such, just starting the AP with beer, as if this is the first day in the PCs life, is sub par from them. I'd expect:
0: Hangover
1: Beer, orcs
2: Beer, orcs
3: Beer, orcs
4: Beer, orcs
5: Beer, orcs
6: Hangover
What's a suicidal range?
Creative Director
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Oh! It could be the Dwarf AP. I know that the Hobbit trilogy has been turning JJ around in his opinion of Dwarves lately.
Ha.
If anything, the opposite. The more Hobbit movies I see, the more I become convinced it should have been one movie, not three.
The potential themes (colonialism, war, what makes a god, etc.) have been explored in fantasy and to some extent the adventure paths, but a more colonial setting is a somewhat less “traditional” fantasy than the pseudo-European medieval setting.
Can I just vote now that we not do a colonialism AP. Isn't real-world colonialism bad enough?
Now, if you want to depict a colonizing effort by a decidedly evil nation botched by the awesome natives, that'd be fine by me.
The potential themes (colonialism, war, what makes a god, etc.) have been explored in fantasy and to some extent the adventure paths, but a more colonial setting is a somewhat less “traditional” fantasy than the pseudo-European medieval setting.Can I just vote now that we not do a colonialism AP. Isn't real-world colonialism bad enough?
Now, if you want to depict a colonizing effort by a decidedly evil nation botched by the awesome natives, that'd be fine by me.
I'm pretty sure (and would prefer) that the negative side of colonialism would be highlighted/explored if they pick up that theme (such as in your proposal of native Mwangi throwing off colonialist oppression). Sargava IS (or was) a holding of Cheliax.
I strongly doubt any AP or module would have a pro-colonialism theme, but it may be in a setting where elements of colonialism complicate things. (Like in a potential Kolabuto breakaway, making sure that Walkena's followers in Mzali don't take advantage of it at the same time fighting off a violent/harsh colonialist response.)
My suspicion is that the colonial issues of Sargava will be used as a backdrop for whatever tragedies are at hand in the AP (Colonialist controlled attacks/interference were directly responsible for Walkena's awakening and probably his embitterment towards outsiders.)
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(Does a search of the thread using one word...)
Might as well back up my spitballing and theories of Darklands dwellers and/or slavelords!
Corgunbier
Nar-Voth
Sekamina
It feels like it's about time to kick off an AP in Andoran or Taldor and get some urban detective-style noire going. Either of those could have slave-taking breadcrumbs lead to their respective first foray into the Darklands and take us from derro to duergar to drow to worse.
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JJ: Two movies. And let's be honest, the story of the dwarves heading to the Mountain needed an antagonist to give the story greater urgency. While I think it should have been Bolg, Azog does fill the position nicely. But that is just my opinion (and I also enjoyed the cartoon version of The Hobbit greatly), and everyone's views on the Hobbit are equally valid. No need to derail the thread further.
So then, what do you feel is an underrepresented aspect for Golarion that you'd like to see an AP on, Mr. Jacobs? Not necessarily one that you'll be doing or that is GOING to be done... but one you'd like to see anyway.
JJ: Two movies.
There will be 3, the trailer for the third is already out, i'm not that impressed myself, could just be the trailer tho.
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Creative Director
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JJ: Two movies. And let's be honest, the story of the dwarves heading to the Mountain needed an antagonist to give the story greater urgency. While I think it should have been Bolg, Azog does fill the position nicely. But that is just my opinion (and I also enjoyed the cartoon version of The Hobbit greatly), and everyone's views on the Hobbit are equally valid. No need to derail the thread further.
So then, what do you feel is an underrepresented aspect for Golarion that you'd like to see an AP on, Mr. Jacobs? Not necessarily one that you'll be doing or that is GOING to be done... but one you'd like to see anyway.
Oh... don't get me wrong. I think that the bulk of what Peter Jackson adds to these movies generally improves on the source. Tolkien was a master at creating worlds, but not so hot at telling stories about characters.
I suppose I could see two movies made from the book, but one 3 hour movie would probably have done the trick as well.
And folks often ask me what parts of Golarion I'd like to see done as an AP, and as it turns out, as the Creative Director, I tend to eventually get to pick locations that are exactly that—representing underrepresented aspects of Golarion. Be they the Darklands, Minkai, Numeria, Katapesh, whatever. Often, an area that seems well represented today is mostly that way due to the fact that we set an Adventure Path there.
So... me saying what areas I'd like to see in an AP is not a question I can answer without either giving away upcoming Adventure Paths or lying to myself. So... I'll ask you to wait and see! The next AP announcement is only a few days more than a week away, now.
JJ: Two movies.There will be 3, the trailer for the third is already out, i'm not that impressed myself, could just be the trailer tho.
No, I'm saying two movies would have sufficed. Sorry for the confusion.
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D'oh!
i could've done with out the 3 way Eye Smolder-thon between Legolas, the chick from Twilight and the Eye candy dwarf myself, otherwise i liked number 2, guy who played Bard looked like he was trying to be Willian Turner Middle Earth for that matter, still better then most movies out there
In some ways, Jade Regent actually is a reflection of "The Hobbit" - you have a King/Queen returning to their kingdom, they go through a long and treacherous journey to reach their homeland, face a great foe... probably the one real difference is the lack of a massive war at the end of Jade Regent. :)
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Can I just vote now that we not do a colonialism AP. Isn't real-world colonialism bad enough?
Now, if you want to depict a colonizing effort by a decidedly evil nation botched by the awesome natives, that'd be fine by me.
I think that's pretty much the default assumption for a colonialism AP. I know I never even entertained any other thought about the theme.
White man's guilt is huge these days. I don't think anybody could do a pro-colonialism story without being lynched.
The closest you have so far is the Isle of Dread parts of Savage Tide. I always found that one somewhat funny because the organization exclusive to natives or those teaming up with them was superior in every way to the organizations for foreigners. That isn't bad by the way, the abilities helped flesh out the sort of people that would live on the Isle of Dread, namely that they are made of tougher stuff.
Kinda feel like the odd man out, since I did an entire Kingmaker campaign in my Caribbean setting where the players set up a colony on an island inhabited by drow and lizardfolk.
Personally, I think Against the Giants should be followed by Against the Slave Lords. Andoran vs. Okeno? Yellow sails seem familiar to me...
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Personally, I think Against the Giants should be followed by Against the Slave Lords. Andoran vs. Okeno? Yellow sails seem familiar to me...
Yes! Okeno in the early parts of this AP. Against the Slave Lords and then Against the Drow, right? :)
As mentioned before, it fits perfectly with the Unchained theme next year.
The only issue is that there's already been setting books for Andoran, Katapesh and the Darklands... which one could they release that would be mostly fresh ground to accompany this?
In some ways, Jade Regent actually is a reflection of "The Hobbit" - you have a King/Queen returning to their kingdom, they go through a long and treacherous journey to reach their homeland, face a great foe... probably the one real difference is the lack of a massive war at the end of Jade Regent. :)
good one! true story i tried to get the wife and kids to do WotR and my first try i said "its the ultimate crusade vs evil where you get to be holy knights vs an army of demons" their reply "Pass!" before i was even done talking! next i said "you start as an unlikely group of heroes thrust into a situation and its up to you to travel to the heart of Mordor and defeat Sauron!" they were making characters before i was done!.
so yes even if James and the gang dont intend to i can see lil bits of Tolkien seep iln here or there (as they should:)edit: in our jade regent i did have the army at the end, seemed to fit and made the end crazy! it was a lot of fun actually, and everyone got to control a small army:)
Personally, I think Against the Giants should be followed by Against the Slave Lords. Andoran vs. Okeno? Yellow sails seem familiar to me...Yes! Okeno in the early parts of this AP. Against the Slave Lords and then Against the Drow, right? :)
As mentioned before, it fits perfectly with the Unchained theme next year.
The only issue is that there's already been setting books for Andoran, Katapesh and the Darklands... which one could they release that would be mostly fresh ground to accompany this?
but the Andoran book is for players, there is still more to add to that freedom pie:)
Since a prize was mentioned and on the off-chance my guess was the one which was close, I would also love to see some more info on the Lirgeni.
Maybe an AP that goes to Jaha in Lirgen or or Kokutang in Yamasa. :)
-TimD
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but the Andoran book is for players, there is still more to add to that freedom pie:)Personally, I think Against the Giants should be followed by Against the Slave Lords. Andoran vs. Okeno? Yellow sails seem familiar to me...Yes! Okeno in the early parts of this AP. Against the Slave Lords and then Against the Drow, right? :)
As mentioned before, it fits perfectly with the Unchained theme next year.
The only issue is that there's already been setting books for Andoran, Katapesh and the Darklands... which one could they release that would be mostly fresh ground to accompany this?
Dark Markets is still one of my favorite supplements. Two out of the three campaigns I've run the past few years are based in Katapesh just because of all the coolness in that book. It's unfortunate that the write-up in the Inner Sea World Guide was just a synopsis of Legacy of Fire.
That said, Okeno hasn't received much attention yet and I agree Andoran has a lot more to offer.
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Since a prize was mentioned and on the off-chance my guess was the one which was close, I would also love to see some more info on the Lirgeni.
Maybe an AP that goes to Jaha in Lirgen or or Kokutang in Yamasa. :)
-TimD
Yeah, this would be my other guess. I could definitely see a Sodden Lands AP being a JJ pet project. You've got demon boggards, cannibal Koboto, Dagon worshipping marsh giants, the whole mystery of the Saoc Brethern which could include the Dark Tapestry or other planets. I see an expedition to Hyrantam as a strong contender as well.
i could've done with out the 3 way Eye Smolder-thon between Legolas, the chick from Twilight and the Eye candy dwarf myself...
??? Evangeline Lilly wasn't in Twilight ???
i could've done with out the 3 way Eye Smolder-thon between Legolas, the chick from Twilight and the Eye candy dwarf myself...??? Evangeline Lilly wasn't in Twilight ???
does it matter? my point stands, it was still a stupid part of the movie
Kinda feel like the odd man out, since I did an entire Kingmaker campaign in my Caribbean setting where the players set up a colony on an island inhabited by drow and lizardfolk.
I guess that's a step up from saying the island was inhabited only by cannibals or men with no heads and faces in their torsos.
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Can I just vote now that we not do a colonialism AP. Isn't real-world colonialism bad enough?
Now, if you want to depict a colonizing effort by a decidedly evil nation botched by the awesome natives, that'd be fine by me.
I think that's pretty much the default assumption for a colonialism AP. I know I never even entertained any other thought about the theme.
White man's guilt is huge these days. I don't think anybody could do a pro-colonialism story without being lynched.
whilst you're most likely right I find that disappointing to be honest as everyone assumes any occupations must got he root of the colonists in america and ignores the fact that other occupations have in fact benefited the conquered nation, the Roman conquest of Britain being a prime example it gave them superior roads, better farming techniques and a rudimentary form of indoor plumbing.
not to mention with the magic available and greater experience dealing with the various races a peaceful accord would be far easier to reach if the right group was used.then again I have found the people on the forums to have issues separating real world history from fantasy politics.
Can I just vote now that we not do a colonialism AP. Isn't real-world colonialism bad enough?
Now, if you want to depict a colonizing effort by a decidedly evil nation botched by the awesome natives, that'd be fine by me.
I think that's pretty much the default assumption for a colonialism AP. I know I never even entertained any other thought about the theme.
White man's guilt is huge these days. I don't think anybody could do a pro-colonialism story without being lynched.
whilst you're most likely right I find that disappointing to be honest as everyone assumes any occupations must got he root of the colonists in america and ignores the fact that other occupations have in fact benefited the conquered nation, the Roman conquest of Britain being a prime example it gave them superior roads, better farming techniques and a rudimentary form of indoor plumbing.
not to mention with the magic available and greater experience dealing with the various races a peaceful accord would be far easier to reach if the right group was used.
then again I have found the people on the forums to have issues separating real world history from fantasy politics.
I can't speak much for the ancient Roman form of colonialism, but everything since the 1500s has been pretty disastrous (not to mention insulting) for the vast majority of those occupied. A few infrastructure improvements don't really compare to the advantages of self-rule.
Hmmm....
What to do with all these kraken eyes?
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I can't speak much for the ancient Roman form of colonialism, but everything since the 1500s has been pretty disastrous (not to mention insulting) for the vast majority of those occupied. A few infrastructure improvements don't really compare to the advantages of self-rule.
I'm personally anti-colonization myself, but I'm curious what you base that on? If we look at countries that were never colonized, they don't seem particularly better or worse off than their peers.
whilst you're most likely right I find that disappointing to be honest as everyone assumes any occupations must got he root of the colonists in america and ignores the fact that other occupations have in fact benefited the conquered nation, the Roman conquest of Britain being a prime example it gave them superior roads, better farming techniques and a rudimentary form of indoor plumbing.
not to mention with the magic available and greater experience dealing with the various races a peaceful accord would be far easier to reach if the right group was used.
then again I have found the people on the forums to have issues separating real world history from fantasy politics.
Man that white man's burden sure is heavy isn't it man. Sure is hard to help out all these savages.
Joking aside I think I get where you're coming from but Romans as an "uplifter" civilization is really hardcore historical revisionism. For the most part Roman occupation made the land nicer to live on but did little if anything to help the people. Most of the native Britons were forced northward or enslaved. That's why there are so many ethnicities and wierd mixed up groups squished into Scotland. Persia or the Mongols are probably better for a "good guy" empire but they also had massive massive problems, as imperialism always does.
Last thing is that most of the time when we think bad guy imperialists it isn't just because of America. It's because of everywhere that was imperialized in the age of exploration. The brain drain and subsequent European occupation of Africa is why most countries there are so messed up. Similarly for Southeast Asia.
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Creative Director
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does it matter? my point stands, it was still a stupid part of the moviei could've done with out the 3 way Eye Smolder-thon between Legolas, the chick from Twilight and the Eye candy dwarf myself...??? Evangeline Lilly wasn't in Twilight ???
See... I thought the addition of Evangeline Lilly's character was one of the best parts of the movie. The stupid part, in my opinion, was the extended bumper pool sequence in the river with the barrels. Fortunately the movie's long enough that folks get plenty of what they DO like, regardless of what it was. ;-)
I'm personally anti-colonization myself, but I'm curious what you base that on? If we look at countries that were never colonized, they don't seem particularly better or worse off than their peers.
Iran was doing really well until the US deposed their legitimately elect democracy. Liberia was heavily impacted by the brain drain caused by the trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. The other three are pretty well off all thins considered. Though Bhuton and Thailand suffer somewhat from lack of natural resources.
China was essentially controlled by European powers along with Nepal. Both of which only began recovering during the 20th century by removing those European influences. Ethiopea was doing very well until Italy repeatedly invaded it between the start of WW1 and the end of WW2. It's modern day problem pretty much stem from the complete economic collapse that occurred then and a series of famines they were not equipped to deal with due to said economic collapse. Tonga is a country I'm not familiar enough with to comment on.
South Korea is doing phenomenally well. North Korea's issues are primarily form being a game piece between the US and China. Mongolia has been in the Chinese or Russian spheres of influence all through the 20th century.
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See... I thought the addition of Evangeline Lilly's character was one of the best parts of the movie. The stupid part, in my opinion, was the extended bumper pool sequence in the river with the barrels. Fortunately the movie's long enough that folks get plenty of what they DO like, regardless of what it was. ;-)
You're both sourpusses. Both of those parts were awesome. The real stupid bit was the super stealthy obvious orcs in Lake Town.
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liked her character just not elf-dwarf-elf love triangle, seemed rather forced to me.
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Creative Director
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And the new AP isn't a colonialism AP. That's an AP we've been considering for a while... but not from the side of the PCs playing colonials.
In fact, back in college about 20 years ago, I ran a game where all the PCs had to be native inhabitants of a frozen land, and the campaign was basically about them resisting the attempt by a bunch of lawful neutral outlanders to "settle and colonize" the PCs' land.
It was really fun playing that story out from the native culture side, as it panned out.
And as a matter of historical interest, the people the PCs played and belonged to and defended were the Shoanti.
(That they came from a city called Absalom was a weird bit of parallel design—my Absalom is VERY different than Golarion's...)
And the new AP isn't a colonialism AP. That's an AP we've been considering for a while... but not from the side of the PCs playing colonials.
Thank you, James. I cannot describe how relieved I am to read this.
I'm personally anti-colonization myself, but I'm curious what you base that on? If we look at countries that were never colonized, they don't seem particularly better or worse off than their peers.
Strange article there. It's unabashedly Eurocentric. Why not include European nations on the list? If we do, we can see that today's nations that have never been colonized have an extreme advantage.
Even as it is, the never-colonized nations outside of Europe seem to be pretty evenly split between doing-okay and not-doing okay.
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I kind of like the idea of a colonial campaign, from the viewpoint of the colonizers, but with the intent of starting them off with the colonial mindset and gradually revealing the truth of what's going on until they get the "Oh crap, we're the monsters" whiplash. Probably with the traditional evil humanoids as the natives. It wouldn't work as an AP, I suspect. I also know I don't have the chops as a GM to pull it off without being way too heavyhanded.
That's also what I'd like to see. Starting with the colonizers and then having to turn against your people when you realize they're the bad guys. A "going native" type of story sort of.
Can we move the political and anti-colonial stuff into another thread? I'm really enjoying read about people logically finding out the location of the next AP.
People seem to be really pushing for Garund, or guessing around there, I'd really prefer it up north in a more traditional fantasy grounding. The Kaer Maga urban AP wouldn't be bad...