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I've been a big fan of corruption themes when running games for my paladins. In my games when paladins stay too long away from clerics guiding wisdom the grey areas of Golarion consume them and eventually rob them of their divine blessings if one is not a fanatic zealot.
One such storyline I am now spinning is of a young sarenite who looks for her idol - lady Cynore from Solku, and is guided to her by a treacherous angel who wants to see her suffer by destroying every pure thing she holds in her heart.
I plan to end the search by finding a broken ex-paladin robbed of every inch of dignity, honour and wits, mostly by her own fault, serving as a pleasure slave for the mightiest of Okeno slave traders which she used to battle in the past.
The end of the adventure is for the paladin to follow either redemption or cleansing flame, where redemption is trying to heal and accept her broken mentor for everything she did and what she has become while the fire path pushes her toward mercy killing her and telling people she died fighting gnolls in the Pale mountain region.
I also anticipate that the paladin might just ignore the situation in which case I will strip her from her paladin powers as she turned her back on a very pressing matter.
My question is how should I reward the paladin as she completed a rather difficult and personal trail towards becoming closer with her god? I don't think it should be a magic item or a large bag of XP but something more poetic.
I can understand if you enjoy the trials and tribulations of a paladin in a less than good world, but I expect to hear from your paladin player on these forums rather soon complaining about the DM who gave her a no-win scenario.
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In my games when paladins stay too long away from clerics guiding wisdom the grey areas of Golarion consume them and eventually rob them of their divine blessings if one is not a fanatic zealot.
What.
Why do paladins have difficulty staying on the path without "clerics guiding wisdom"? Paladins can be every bit as wise as clerics. Who keeps clerics from falling from grace if the world is just so very dark and grim?
Seriously, this makes no sense to me.
This is Sarenrae we're talking about, not freaking Torag. Other than arguably Irori she's the most understanding of circumstances of all of the Paladin-compatible gods. I don't think any of the choices presented here would lead to a complete fall.
The best reward would be a transfer to a different game where the GM didn't hate paladins.
Also, maybe a less.......eeeehhhhh.....type game. I would always try to make sure that the players are ok with this kind of..... 'corruption'... before throwing it at them and wrapping their entire character and her powers around the situation. Particularly since the term 'beyond redemption' is used for those who violate and destroy, rather than the victims of such acts (although I could certainly understand touching upon a more extreme interpretation since Sarenrae's church is known for 'well meaning' militant groups)
Have you had this kind of very... strong... flavor in storylines before? How have the players reacted to that? Have you discussed how you are going to entrench the player's paladin into this situation?
And since you are aiming for a VERY particular set of responses from the player, how are you going to make her options apparent to her (if not the actual results of her choice). I mean, as a part of the party, I could see her avoiding anything besides 'rescue her and drop her off at a temple' since they might imagine this would interfere with the campaign. As a Lawful Good character, how are you going to introduce the idea of a mercy killing as an option, when it is usually aberrant in our society?
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Here is the Sarenrae Paladin code:
- I will protect my allies with my life. They are my light and my strength, as I am their light and their strength. We rise together.
- I will seek out and destroy the spawn of the Rough Beast. If I cannot defeat them, I will give my life trying. If my life would be wasted in the attempt, I will find allies. If any fall because of my inaction, their deaths lie upon my soul, and I will atone for each.
- I am fair to others. I expect nothing for myself but that which I need to survive.
- The best battle is a battle I win. If I die, I can no longer fight. I will fight fairly when the fight is fair, and I will strike quickly and without mercy when it is not.
- I will redeem the ignorant with my words and my actions. If they will not turn toward the light, I will redeem them by the sword.
- I will not abide evil, and will combat it with steel when words are not enough. I do not flinch from my faith, and do not fear embarrassment. My soul cannot be bought for all the stars in the sky.
- I will show the less fortunate the light of the Dawnflower. I will live my life as her mortal blade, shining with the light of truth.
- Each day is another step toward perfection. I will not turn back into the dark.
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Everything about your post makes me feel uncomfortable.
I find the whole concept of your focus to be incredibly inappropriate for this forum and your question asking very little, as if you just wanted to brag on how creepy you can be.
Your campaign idea is super low and really belongs on a forum like 4chan where user not only expect pointless debauchery, but specifically go there to partake in such troll baited debates.
There is a line between acknowledging the darker aspects of a fantasy world rife with evil and ----ing with the paladin.
This, exactly this.
To the OP, you honestly just sound like a jerk who is trying to cause your player not to have a enjoyable time. You will not find many on this board amenable to your position.
You should reward him by not putting him through this unless he has already agreed to it.
In my games when paladins stay too long away from clerics guiding wisdom the grey areas of Golarion consume them and eventually rob them of their divine blessings if one is not a fanatic zealot.What.
Why do paladins have difficulty staying on the path without "clerics guiding wisdom"? Paladins can be every bit as wise as clerics. Who keeps clerics from falling from grace if the world is just so very dark and grim?
Seriously, this makes no sense to me.
Seconded. Thirded and fourthed, really.
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I've been a big fan of corruption themes when running games for my paladins. In my games when paladins stay too long away from clerics guiding wisdom the grey areas of Golarion consume them and eventually rob them of their divine blessings if one is not a fanatic zealot.
Ugh, no, just no. Paladins are supposed to be heroes and the majority of people who play them want to be that. Trust me when I say it's hard enough being a paladin in normal games without the GM conspiring against you.
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I think it is rather unfair to judge this GM on one simple post. I agree, it does sound a bit heavy handed, but I took it as a rough idea for a personal development quest. It doesn't sound as if he plans to "punish" the character unless she chooses not to take part in the scenario (and I do agree that with some of the mature themes present, that it is something that should be talked about with the player first). I don't agree with punitive storytelling or game mastering, but still I think much of this thread has been rather insulting instead of answering a question.
Perhaps you could reward the character with a higher rank within the church, a new NPC cohort, or the opportunity to stop the slavers and therefore become a hero in the eyes of many?
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So... the Pally has to either accept that the mentor is now un-redeemable somehow, no matter what they do, or has to become a murderer and a liar--both options that would guarantee her fall?
Do you have a grudge against your player? Or can you seriously not see any other alternatives at all aside from these two railroaded choices?
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If the idea didn't come from Elizabeth Moon's Paksenarrion novels, I would be tempted to believe this is a troll question. Some plot ideas are better suited to books than roleplaying.
This 1000 times. RP Games are not novels and some things just don't cross over well.
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I think it is rather unfair to judge this GM on one simple post. I agree, it does sound a bit heavy handed, but I took it as a rough idea for a personal development quest. It doesn't sound as if he plans to "punish" the character unless she chooses not to take part in the scenario (and I do agree that with some of the mature themes present, that it is something that should be talked about with the player first). I don't agree with punitive storytelling or game mastering, but still I think much of this thread has been rather insulting instead of answering a question.
Perhaps you could reward the character with a higher rank within the church, a new NPC cohort, or the opportunity to stop the slavers and therefore become a hero in the eyes of many?
Ok, honest advice.... how about looking at the Deific Obedience feat for some rewards connected to her deity after this extremely difficult test.
Here is link to the kind of things Sarenrae gives for deific obedience. Maybe giving her one of the boons would be an interesting choice. Particularly the SLAs under the Sentinel. I mean, giving her the option to suddenly shoot a fire ball and breath fire could get them hyped after what has happened. Saying "Your devotion to your path has sparked a new flame within you".
As the Miyazaki has taught us with his double feature of Grave of the Fireflies and My Neighbor Totoro- you need to feel the warm fuzzies inside after dealing with so much heavy junk. And setting my enemies on fire gives me the warm and fuzzies.
+1
The Paksenarrion books were great, and I also think Michael Carpenter from the Dresden books is another excellent literary paladin. Neither of their stories makes for a good gaming experience however.
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Why do paladins have difficulty staying on the path without "clerics guiding wisdom"? Paladins can be every bit as wise as clerics. Who keeps clerics from falling from grace if the world is just so very dark and grim?Seriously, this makes no sense to me.
Allowe me to turn that statement around saying that clerics can be as bloodthirsty and haughty as paladins. Holy warrior has a nice ring to it doesn't it. I basicly looked at NPC codex and accepted that paladins are not, and shouldn't be cookiecutter concepts. Those low level npc codex paladins are not the type of people you would like to meet in a dark alley. Paladins should be the right hand of their god. Protectors, destroyers of evil, venturing into the dark abyss, yet they are denide the power of miracles given to the clerics the true mouth and eyes of dieties. It is folly to say that paladin can't attain the same secrets of faith and loyalty as a cleric who is in constant connection to her god. I am in fact very lennient to paladins of any religion except for Torag and the Old dead eye, but I crack down on clerics very hard as they represent their diety much more intimatly.
The best reward would be a transfer to a different game where the GM didn't hate paladins.
I can understand if you enjoy the trials and tribulations of a paladin in a less than good world, but I expect to hear from your paladin player on these forums rather soon complaining about the DM who gave her a no-win scenario.
I understand that Paladins have a big red button on people that is a big temptation for people who are less than comfortable with what they represent.
I would however remind you that you can have challenging Paladin stories that are not centered on the Big Red Button.
Everything about your post makes me feel uncomfortable.
I find the whole concept of your focus to be incredibly inappropriate for this forum and your question asking very little, as if you just wanted to brag on how creepy you can be.
Your campaign idea is super low and really belongs on a forum like 4chan where user not only expect pointless debauchery, but specifically go there to partake in such troll baited debates.
There is a line between acknowledging the darker aspects of a fantasy world rife with evil and ----ing with the paladin.
Allowe me to explain. I never intended to ruin my paladin game nor to rob him of his powers. I have run games for more than a dozen paladins for 14 years straight and I realize that taking away their powers should be only used when there is a clear cut situation of numerous breaches in the code of conduct. It's not something I would ever tell my players, I only subtly remind them that the code is there for a reason. Some of them wear the phylactery of faithfulness and sometimes approach me about the eerie silence of the phylacterie when most DMs would point out that they are a step from losing their paladin's blessing. I don't do a red button storylines because they are simply boring. You play, you lose, you die or return to the gods grace. But I do like when the paladins squirm when their code pushes them into a difficult situation in the middle of a tight spot, not that I deliberatly push them into those situations.
In fact many of my players enjoy a little spicing up in my stories but to be honest I never go into a campaing saying that I am going to grim the hell out of some peoples concepts. I only do that if the roleplaying aspect is killing the mood at every opportunity!. The story I presented to you is the last chapter of a character hook spanning a half year worth of games. I started reading about solku and Lady cynore. The Katapesh guide states her as very pacifistic avistan paladin, very opposed to quadiran sarenite rule of "the desert gives only one chance so will I", who since the last attack on Solku turned to full militarry agression while having a political conflict between the goverment and the local chaple of Iomedae. Yet her sect remains very true to the healing, redemption domains of sarenrae.
Her pupil my paladin is not much better. While true to the sect teachings she is very full of herself, being a pupil of a famous and powerful paladin, having silver hair and being constantly pampered by her mentor as the choosen child. Quoting our party wizard: "arrogant, self-rightous brat." I decided to go with that. Doing a sort of mending quest. Having the pupil be the teacher. Helping heal friendship between two religions and fighting the bloodthirsty side of her mentor.
In my games I try to show a religion from a lot of different angles. I included the sarenrae inquisition who were people not afraid to get their hands dirty in order to help the church spread their message faster. For the greater good was their motto. I decided that as a paladin lady cynore would allowe the inquisition to be independent while looking for guidence in the goddess favour which she didn't lose so everything must've been A-OK! Untill my PC paladin found out that it wasn't as part of a nice little plot hook of an another PC, a very very bloodthirsty inquisitor of Sarenrae who when it comes to "For sun and fury" was much more into the fury part rather than sun. It would all be cool if he didn't do that in front of the party cleric of sarenrae.
This was the part where me and my players really started getting into the whole religion thing. After uncovering unlawful behaviour of the inquisition Lady Cynore stepped down from the position of the leader, gave her title, armor and ceremonial blades to her pupil and went on a penance crusade to fight gnolls and the Carrion King she so much talked about.
In truth she was extremly frightened about the church loosing peoples trust and taking the blame for not putting a strong leash on the inquistion who were her most useful tools in political struggle against city leader Lord Kel-Kalar. Sarenrae robbed her of her powers as she crossed the city gates
The pupil who was the effective leader of a large church responsible for the training of the city's militia not an hour after taking power started a very vocal struggle over political power against the city council and the native merchants. Wanting to quickly execute all the inquisitors and put the laws of her sect over the city laws. it ended horribly where the elder priests spared the life of all the inquisitors (obviously we are Sarenrae not Abadar!), the paladin got found redhanded while she helped one of the inqisitors (a murderer) escape while fighting city guards. She was demoted in her own sect, trailed by the joint city council. I first wanted to give her 50 lashes but I figured out Solku is a peaceful city so I stripped her naked, cut her hair, paraded her trough the city from dawn to dusk and banished her to a border town for a year as a protector. I even protected her from excommunication because the new church leader was her combat trainer and made few deals to let her stay within the sect.
Her companions who tried to defend her against the "evil" city law would soon curse her zealotry during their next adventure because she became just like her mentor. A bloodthirsty loner who thinks about cleansing the sect from corruption and doesn't see any grey areas of life. She got the "desert gives only one chance" part very well I think.
Here I wanted to make her mentor an anti paladin but I very quickly scrapped the project. They would fight and the paladin would win? Boring. I want her to look back at what she acomplished and who she is. I think that when she meets her broken mentor she might reflect that they are both only human susceptible to failure and that the core of Sarenrae is to accept that and forgive whatever transgressions she might have comitted or pain people had given her. The first step to forgivness is to forgive yourself for not being perfect. Of course she might say no to that while chanting "The desert gives only one chance" then mercy kill her mentor who failed her self imposed penance horribly and go back to rotting out weakness and corruption within the sect. The only option when she would lose her power is when she abandons her former mentor to her horrible fate.
All I did was read the articles on religion and region and fill the blanks with grey. Aside from being heroes and icons of justice characters of my PCs are still mortals with their own flaws. I only show them the darkness in light and light in darkness to flesh their characters and it always worked wonders for the story and enjoyment of the stories.
As an end note, I never would have believed that my ideas would be found disgusting when the games most famous adventure path features a fallen from grace villaness with a lot of serious personal drama who gave birth to two mutated demon dogs. Seriously people.
Also how did you change "redemption is trying to heal and accept her broken mentor" into a bad ending? Isn't that something an iconic cleric of Sarenrae is supposed to strive for?
What he said.
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There's no material or 'power up' reward for this that wouldn't seem tasteless in comparison to the ordeal these paladins have suffered. What you've done is created a scenario that would lead to possible canonization, if saints were a thing in Golarion. Since they're not, what you've got a sad tale that will be popular and often-read entry in various Books of Light and Truth.
Hopefully your players are fully on board with this grim tale and find catharsis in its resolution.
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Here is where I draw the line, while we talk about thing like birthing dog monsters, prostitutes and gleeful murder as part of the fantasy game it's specifically rape that is taboo for me and many other people. Especially as how you presented it. Once consent has been removed from the equation, it's no longer mature themed it's just obscene.
What you are trying to do is basically discuss a rape fantasy. I do not believe this is an appropriate place for it. Neither is he discussion on why sexual violence is wrong when murder, burglary and random violence are a-ok.
Yeah but I never said anything about showing rape or roleplaying rape. The whole bloody setting of katapesh is about drugs and slavery. You would have to be pretty short sighted that the slavers sell intelligent beings of both sexes as pleasure slaves. Using pesh to intoxicate people to make them do or say things without consent is also rape yet there exists a whole cast of spellcasters and pesh peddlers doing just that!
I don't go to a game with a mindset "now I'm going to show my players how good/bad rape is, nor how slavery good/bad is.
For example my newest player a cleric of Cayden had a pretty weak/lazy story and I had to approach it from different angles to make it somehow work. He was an orphan who was in a Orphanage supported by the church of Cayden, later he became a thief finally ending as cleric of cayden blessed by the god himself. I left the bad parts. I quickly made him realize that those orphanages funded by church of Cayden are probably places where bastards of "traveling adventurers" are being taken care of. He also hates slavery with a passion.
Later they will meet a hellknight with his small party who is all for slavery. He was a former slave. He buys little children to raise them and teach them the ways of the order of the chain. To show them the lawful path of obediance. He is Lawful Good, and when confronted by the priest he will mock him that all he did was take bastards of drunks such as the PC and make them into productive members of chelish societies. This is still a rough draft but I want to see some good reaction from the character and introduce an eagle knight to push the cleric towards the confrontation with the hell knight.
Slavery, child labour, rape. Real life exaples are horrible and should but this is a game. I and my players don't draw the line when it comes to boardgames because a card implied slavery, rape or murder. It's just fiction and nobody is getting hurt.
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There's no material or 'power up' reward for this that wouldn't seem tasteless in comparison to the ordeal these paladins have suffered. What you've done is created a scenario that would lead to possible canonization, if saints were a thing in Golarion. Since they're not, what you've got a sad tale that will be popular and often-read entry in various Books of Light and Truth.
Hopefully your players are fully on board with this grim tale and find catharsis in its resolution.
But saints are a thing. I once run a game for a paladin of Shelyn and she had a saint patron of her paladin order. But I think I found a reward for my paladin. Thank you sir.
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But saints are a thing. I once run a game for a paladin of Shelyn and she had a saint patron of her paladin order. But I think I found a reward for my paladin. Thank you sir.There's no material or 'power up' reward for this that wouldn't seem tasteless in comparison to the ordeal these paladins have suffered. What you've done is created a scenario that would lead to possible canonization, if saints were a thing in Golarion. Since they're not, what you've got a sad tale that will be popular and often-read entry in various Books of Light and Truth.
Hopefully your players are fully on board with this grim tale and find catharsis in its resolution.
Are they? How does that work in the setting? Saints a specific thing, recognized and recorded by a church with entrenched rules and traditions. Shelyn's church has saints? I didn't think her worship was that centralized and codified.
Maybe, by saint, Paizo means just a notable cultural hero with godly favor?
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Paladins of Shelyn are rare, far rarer than those who revere no single deity, but there have been some, such as Saint Marcus Odeber son of Arn Odeber, first of the Odeber line.
Taken from Pathfinder wiki.
I think saints are a thing in golarion. When I read trough the first AP of legacy of fire there were mentions of Sarenrae saints.
Since getting into pathfinder I tried to everything religion related because I wanted to be fair to my players, especially to my paladins. I think all of the old religions like Pharasma, Sarenrae, Shelyn and Desna, who are very ancient have different shifts of allingment trought golarion. Some sects are very codified full of traditions, others the opposite. I have an avistan cleric of sarenrae in my second campaing and I let him do what he wants, he is communing with angels and servants of the emphyreal lords making packts with them while still retaining his clerical powers. He is afraid because he thinks they might be evil spirits in disguise but if he went to Quadira. They would probably trail him for heresy.
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When I play pathfinder or any other game, it can be for a variety of reasons.
To experience being a hero, exploring ancient ruins, generally doing fantasy setting things that really can't be done in real life (By us).
From everything you've said so far, and yes, I did read it all, it almost seems that instead of being the more stereotypical GM types of "Storyteller", "Incorporeal partymember", "Rival" or "Enemy". You are instead a Blacksmith, and the player's are the tools you are forging.
You put them into circumstances where they are directly challenged on multiple levels, not as players playing a game, but as actual people.
These sound like great stories, the type of brutal "Gritty" fantasy I wouldn't mind reading.
I would never play it.
That Cleric of Cayden Cailean has a "Weak/lazy" backstory. So, you're helping him flesh it out, and now you're going to hit him as hard as you can, challenging everything about his character. It's either going to make the character "Better", or outright break him (Most likely).
Great story, not a circumstance I would find fun to play.
The Main conversation about the paladin. Based off the original post, it seems like you've locked her into only a few options, none very good really from a Paladin standpoint.
Great story, not a very fair circumstance to play as a player.
You seem like a great story teller, but going off what you've said here (And, I can only do that, not knowing you, or your players, and this may not be accurate or fair), it looks like you have a tendency to railroad (Reducing options beyond what's fair), bring your own beliefs and opinions into the game (Judgement on Cleric's backstory, style/type of decisions you have railroaded the Paladin into), and enjoy throwing situations at your players that will Break or change them in ways that you want, but they don't necessarily want.
I realize that you didn't come here for judgement on your style, or your game, and you just wanted some cool ideas for a reward for the Tribulations endured, but maybe you should look at some of the criticisms mentioned here (The ones that aren't just "WOULD NOT PLAY!" or are insulting).
In the end, the important part is "Are the players enjoying it?" if so, learn what you can from what was said, and ignore the rest. The important part is always the players, if the players are fine with it, then it's fine.
Just make sure they genuinely ARE fine with it. People don't always say what they mean. They could be intimidated by your experience (The Cleric of Cayden Cailean sounds new based off their backstory, a GM who is vastly more experienced than you can be hard to disagree with), or since everyone or almost everyone else is okay with it, they might not speak up.
Just put our concerns to rest and check, and good luck however it goes. :)
Reward: Sometimes, the story is it's own reward, and anything else pales in comparison. If a physical reward is needed, I would make it something worthless monetarily, and power-wise. I would make it something like a keepsake or memento from the former mentor. Perhaps the symbol of Sarenrae the Mentor first received as a new Paladin long ago, a cheap battered old woooden symbol, bereft of power, but worth so much more as a symbol of the story that took place, and what took place between them.
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Thank you for you opinion.
I will look at the subplot thrice and think how to improve it to give the player more legwork. Maybe I limitted her options because she failed miserably at her leadership role. I intended to give her the whole church as a reward, and I did that, wanting to see what the player could do with some world changing power in hand.
It turned out pretty bad as if suddently the paladin stopped following his heart and looked at the bigger picture and destroying everything he worked by herself in just one session. It was trully horrible how it plummeted down from a in game reward to a penalty but on the other hand was very entertaining.
I think the last chapter was designed as a T-intersection where the only bad sollution is turning back was because I wanted to protect the player from his own bad choices. I won't say anything about the nature of the ending because this is what I felt as a fitting end to that plot-hook.
I think I will give her a memento of the journey and later I will make her a saint.
If I may ask how should you change the story to better suit the paladin?
If I may ask how should you change the story to better suit the paladin?
Not enough info for that sadly, as it is, I felt like I went out on a hell of a limb judging you like I did. XD
I can throw a few ideas out, but without knowing you and yours, they may not have any validity. Perhaps, rather than making it only have 3 options (Redeem/heal, Burn, walk away), just allow/plan for more than that. A Paladin of Sarenrae's first instinct is (Stereotypically) to Heal/Redeem, so that's always an option. Wrathfully killing the mentor is possible, a mercy killing as well, even being unable to choose. That can be complicated by the Mentor, perhaps the Player can convince the Mentor that despite everything she's done, Sarenrae can still redeem her, and after a time, become a Paladin again. Perhaps with more wisdom and compassion this time around. The mentor may be suicidal, and desire nothing more or less than being removed from this world, and at the last moment, repent and no longer what it.
There are so many different ways it can go down, they literally can't be counted, and sometimes not even conceived of until the actual moment in time.
It all comes down to the players.
Perhaps that Player (The Paladin), is playing their character honestly how they think it should be played. If so, they may very well react poorly to what you have coming.
The best advice is always, work with the players. If they like what's going on, you're likely on the right track.
You may want to spend some time with the Player of the Paladin, and see what they think of their character as a player, and what plans they had for the Paladin (If you haven't already, you probably have). They might not be the redeeming type, they may in fact decide to just kill the fallen former mentor without even trying to redeem them. Sarenrae wouldn't be too happy about that most likely, but the player may very well be happy with the result. Which places you in an awkward position, do you enforce an alignment infraction that the player might object too?
So, check, and work with them, it works better for everyone when that happens, I've always found the best endings come from everyone working together on the same page, and when everyone is having fun. :)
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It sounds like you player wants to explore the more noble aspects of zealotry, a la Joan of Arc. The real world usually punishes zealots, because they're difficult, intractable people who are easier to adore dead than alive. If you want to be realistic, then yes, keep punishing her until she's ground down under the pain and compromise that comes from living in a corrupt world. Or you could experiment with rewarding her fervor with some equally rabid followers and a few bright, bloody wins. Give her a few moments in the sun, perhaps at the astonishment of your other players, before you go all George R.R. on her again ;)
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My greates worry is that the player will think nothing of the adventure. I have heard opinions of fellow players that he didn't seem to care when I got his father commit suicide due to the paladin political decisions. Or when she paniced and sentenced her cousin who came to rescue her to die horribly eaten by gnolls.
I fear that seeing her mentor's journey into sin and finally confronting her won't have any impact on her character, just another day of doing the Lady's work.
I know that for a zealot type the thing she only cares about is Sarenrae but I have a strickt rule of not striping divine casters of their powers unless there is a clear violation of they allignment or code.
I will work it out somehow with the player. See how he approaches the subject.
If players are ok with this, and they like challenges i don't see why he couldn't do this, if you are making this just like that, you're really messing up with people.
I have heard opinions of fellow players that he didn't seem to care when I got his father commit suicide due to the paladin political decisions. Or when she paniced and sentenced her cousin who came to rescue her to die horribly eaten by gnolls.
I fear that seeing her mentor's journey into sin and finally confronting her won't have any impact on her character, just another day of doing the Lady's work.
For someone burning brightly with the light of Sarenrae she seems awfully cold.
That can be very dangerous and the tightwalk between steeling oneself and blocking everything out by embracing that cold is very narrow sometimes. If possible it would be a very good cause for the mentors fall. Sadly I don't know how much of that story is set in stone.Rather than try do make it memorable by deploying the grotesque where shock and grimness failed it might make more of an impact to show how that coldness and focus on the large picture, as with the church, can lead to dehumanizing others and that is a surefire way to falling.
I'd try to mirror the mentor as much as possible to the players flaws so the redemption of the mentor not only saves one but two paladins.
If the grim does not work then blindside them with Disney morality.