Order of the Flame Samurai Sword Saint


Advice


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Okay, so this combination actually kicks major buttocks.

For reference: Order of the Flame
Samurai
Sword Saint

Glorious Challenge gives you a bucketload of free challenges, which means a lot of free resolve, and a lot of chances to use your Iaijutsu strike.

So, conceptually that's pretty awesome. But I'm not sure where to go from here.

I have a silly idea on how to get free action sheathing (gun twirling feat with a sword-cane pistol), which would maximize the Iaijutsu strike chances (while the damage is eeeeeh, Deafening is pretty good, altough it comes on a bit late).

Grand Lodge

If you can get access to 3rd party stuff, dreamscarred press has a feat called mixed combat which let's you sheath as a free action.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/feats/mixed-combat-combat

I think it could help your build out.


....

Expect to get hit... A lot. You're definitely going to need to work on your defense (stacking -2 AC for every Glorious Challenge initiated in a single combat!?).

Maybe work out something with an ally to move in tandem with you. You be the blade, he plays the shield. Preferably someone who can heal you up when you start choking on all those hits you're going to take.

Quest for a Ring of Regeneration, Determination armor, and other such enchantments... Immediately. Resolve - Unstoppable only works if you drop from 0 to below 0. The clause exists "He does fall unconscious if he takes additional damage from any source."

Fun concept though. I'll have to toy around with it. I love the sword saint myself, thanks to pointing me to the Order of Flame!


don't forget the -4 to AC from IaijutsuStrike(-2 eventually)

any other ways you can bump up your damage for taking AC penalties>? at this point you will get hit every time.

miss chance may be your friend...


Agree on getting miss chance being important.

You should try to get good cloaks of displacement. Just to be extra sure, you can go Fetchling, Duergar, Moroi-Born Dhampir or Dissolution Child Wayang for base-line concealment spells. Mist Child Changeling does not come with any such spell, but get +5% concealment once you get that effect.

Later on, you can go for Moonlight Stalker feats to improve your concealment and damage while concealed -- who doesn't think a shadow samurai is cool?

ALSO: Look at heavy scabbard Combat Tricks, I'm guessing you can use your scabbard when drawing your sword for iaijitsu strikes, so it gives you a nice bonus.

Dark Archive

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You can carry several sheathed katanas to start off each glorious challenge with a new Iajitsu strike, until you run out of swords.


I'd look into DR/-, I don't know how much you can really get but since AC isn't going to be a defensive statistic that does anything for you.

Grand Lodge

You need a phalanx fighter (for reach and the later cover bonuses) friend with Saving Shield, Bodyguard, and In Harm's Way. A Life Oracle would be a plus as well, you'll need the channels and lifelink.


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Wow that is a great Order. Stalwart and Improved Stalwart would be good feat choices with it I'd say; throw in Crane Style with pre-nerf Crane Wing and you have yourself something interesting.

Dark Archive

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So I am interested in trying to make a character based around this archetype and Order, and I this is what I came up with:

Spoiler:
20PB Half-orc Samurai
18 Str (16+2 Racial, level up points go here)
8 Dex (this is the only part I really wish I could change)
14 Con
13 Int
12 Wis
12 Cha

Traits: Indomitable Faith and Deft Dodger (or Reactionary)
FCB: Samurai (HP)

1 - Samurai (Sword Saint) 1 - Power Attack
2 - Fighter (Unbreakable) 1 - Endurance, Die Hard
3 - Samurai (Sword Saint) 2 - Combat Expertise
4 - Samurai (Sword Saint) 3 - (pick Katana for Weapon Expertise)
5 - Samurai (Sword Saint) 4 - Stalwart
6 - Samurai (Sword Saint) 5 -
7 - Samurai (Sword Saint) 6 - Intimidated Prowess, Cornugon Smash
8 - Samurai (Sword Saint) 7 -
9 - Samurai (Sword Saint) 8 - Weapon Focus: Katana (maybe Critical Focus?)
10 - Samurai (Sword Saint) 9 -
11 - Samurai (Sword Saint) 10 - Improved Stalwart
12 - Samurai (Sword Saint) 11 -

With this, I have DR/-, a decent amount of HP, 5 skill points a level and will probably do okay damage. The negative Dex mod certainly hurts, but the character should be pretty well-rounded otherwise.


So I've been considering cool ideas for the order of the flame. In terms of the infinite damage potential, let's say that you carry around a bucket of worms. At the start of the day you declare your challenge against one of the worms. You immediately kill it and switch your challenge to the next worm. You do this for a while racking up damage and losing AC. Instead of killing your last worm, of which had been challenged, you let it live and go of to fight the big bad jacked on damage of which you still have because that worm is still alive. One could theoretically insta-kill anything with enough worms. This is idea 100% grade A cheese. Packed full of the stuff. Thoughts?


In terms of losing AC, there's a cavalier archtype called Castellan. At 12th level you no longer lose AC as a result of your challenges.


A dip into Swashbuckler for Opportune Parry and Riposte would let you mount a more active, AC-ignoring defense; however you would need to pick up Slashing Grace and fight one-handed when you wanted to recharge panache. Still, with that kind of damage bonus, one-handed isn't so big a deal...


Psychopompus: Not a new idea. Used to be an idea with cleave and a bag of rats back in 3.5 for infinite attacks.

As for castellan; one I am not even sure if samurai can take it and two it doesn't stack with sword saint (they both replace mount).

The Exchange

Psychopompus wrote:
So I've been considering cool ideas for the order of the flame. In terms of the infinite damage potential, let's say that you carry around a bucket of worms. At the start of the day you declare your challenge against one of the worms. You immediately kill it and switch your challenge to the next worm. You do this for a while racking up damage and losing AC. Instead of killing your last worm, of which had been challenged, you let it live and go of to fight the big bad jacked on damage of which you still have because that worm is still alive. One could theoretically insta-kill anything with enough worms. This is idea 100% grade A cheese. Packed full of the stuff. Thoughts?

Also would not work because

PRD wrote:
The challenge remains in effect until the target is dead or unconscious, or until the combat ends.Each samurai's challenge also includes another effect, which is listed in the section describing the samurai's order.

Emphasis mine.

Unless you can get your gm to say that combat doesn't end between your worms and the real target.


I saw a friend who had a Cavalier with the Order of the Flame in a mass combat. His AC had dropped to 5 when combat ended. It was glorious. We were all sad when combat ended.

Silver Crusade

I've been trying to piece together a strength based Order of the Flame TWF Samurai as well, after Roronoa Zoro from One Piece. (Will definitely have fun with the mental stats!)

Basically a brute that runs around with 3 swords (carries one in his mouth), that is driven to be the best swordsman and is very difficult to kill.

Old faithfuls:
TWF, ITWF, Double-Slice

Other interests:
Endurance/Diehard (strong fit for the character)
Weapon Focus/Specialization (underwhelming for the feat cost)
Improved Critical (possibly a must-have with 3 wakizashis/katanas)
Power Attack (better damage and one less feat than w.focus/spec)
Critical Feats

After reading this, and a few other threads, I really like the idea of the swashbuckler dip to 'out attack' (Parry/Riposte) for defense. The ability to parry would increase as AC tanks from glorious challenges. Plus, the hope would be that killing blows/crits and thereby panache will be abundant. Although, Swashbuckler's finesse does nothing for a Str build. It would set-up a dex build nicely but doesn't quite fit the character and the thought of picking up 2-3 agile enchants isn't thrilling.

Also, considering difficult swings as a defensive action. Basically, use jaunt boots and quick runner's shirts (not in tandem obviously) to get in full attacks on challenged targets in hopes of dropping them fast. Then using difficult swings and 5ft step kiting to minimize enemy attacks. Obviously this would do nothing vs reach and ranged.

For PFS|
Anyone know if "Swashbuckler Weapon Training" qualifies as weapon training to get Difficult Swings?

Unbreakable fighter would be a great dip for endurance/diehard combo but misses out on parry/riposte and looks like it removes weapon training. Is anyone aware of other means to get that ability outside of Swashbuckler and Duelist PrC post-errata?


"Swashbuckler Weapon Training" Does not qualify as weapon training to get Difficult Swings?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Chess Pwn wrote:
"Swashbuckler Weapon Training" Does not qualify as weapon training to get Difficult Swings?

Correct. It's clarified in the product thread somewhere.

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