"Deific Obedience" and "or"


Rules Questions


4 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

With various deific obediences you get things like:

"Masterful Warrior (Sp): true strike 1/day, false life 2/day, or haste 3/day"

What does that "or" mean? Do you choose one of them when you first qualify for the ability? Do you choose it each morning, when you do your obedience?

On a less important note, who would ever choose true strike 1/day, over haste 3/day?


Also, I know your caster level is supposed to be your character level, but what stat are the saving throws for such abilities based off of?

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

The caster stat question is one I would also like to know. I was under the assumption that you choose the spell-like ability by casting the first one. So, if you cast haste, you're stuck with haste for the rest of the day. If you cast true strike, no more casting the others for the day (though those three specific spells are in the wrong order... it should be haste 1/day and true strike 3/day, there's an update by the writer on one of these threads. There should, in general, be 3/day 1st-level spell, or 2/day 2nd level, or 1/day 3rd level.).


Ah, makes sense about the haste.

I'll probably run it as being based on the higher of Wisdom and Charisma until I hear otherwise.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Rudy2 wrote:

With various deific obediences you get things like:

"Masterful Warrior (Sp): true strike 1/day, false life 2/day, or haste 3/day"

What does that "or" mean? Do you choose one of them when you first qualify for the ability? Do you choose it each morning, when you do your obedience?

On a less important note, who would ever choose true strike 1/day, over haste 3/day?

It means you make ONE choice when you choose the feat.


It doesn't state that youchoose one upon taking the feat. In the feat it states when you get boons based on your HD.

Cosidering that to get the benefit everyday you have to do your deity's obediance, you probably choose upon completion of the obediance.


LazarX wrote:
It means you make ONE choice when you choose the feat.

Reference? I can't find anything in Inner Sea Gods saying one way or the other. Also, why when you choose the feat, as opposed to when you actually gain the ability?


TheBulletKnight wrote:
Considering that to get the benefit everyday you have to do your deity's obedience, you probably choose upon completion of the obedience.

That's certainly the most flavorful interpretation, and probably the one I will run if I don't find a more definite ruling.

Grand Lodge

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Rudy2 wrote:
On a less important note, who would ever choose true strike 1/day, over haste 3/day?

Because, if you look at the other deities, it becomes pretty clear that it's supposed to be true strike 3/day and haste 1/day, not the other way around.

Rudy2 wrote:
Also, I know your caster level is supposed to be your character level, but what stat are the saving throws for such abilities based off of?

SLAs use Charisma.


Jeff Merola wrote:
SLAs use Charisma.

There are plenty of examples where that isn't true, such has the spell-like abilities gained by the Qinggong Monk archetype. Is there somewhere in the rules that says, unless otherwise specified, SLAs use Charisma? Cause, I'll tell ya, it makes a lot more sense for Irori SLAs to use Wisdom than to use Charisma. :)

Grand Lodge

It's in the Universal Monster Rules under Spell-Like Abilities.

Quote:
The saving throw (if any) against a spell-like ability is 10 + the level of the spell the ability resembles or duplicates + the creature's Charisma modifier.


Hmm... I may still houserule it otherwise, but yes, that seems like a fair interpretation of the rules.


I think the SLA charisma thing is default monster rules, I think classes sometimes do it differently.


I agree with you, seebs, but in absence of anything else, I think it's the closest thing there is to RAW.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Charisma is the default, if no other ability is listed.


So, do you pick the spell on selecting of the feat or each time you perform your obedience?


Seriously... the SLAs you get are pretty limited in scope. And you get them for an ability you get at a pretty high level. So, if you let people choose when they CAST them, it isn't going to unbalance anything. Also, I might point out that the ability you get includes that or - so to me, the choice at casting is the most reasonable one to me.


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Relevant Wording

Spoiler:
Deific Obedience wrote:

Once you’ve performed the obedience, you gain the benefit of

a special ability or resistance as indicated in the “Obedience”
entry for the god to whom you performed the obedience.

The wording is very specific that you gain the benefits after you perform the obedience and the feat never makes mention of picking what SLA you get as soon as you pick up the feat. This makes it seem as though you select which SLA you want each time you perform the obedience rather than being locked into one for all time.

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

Here's a question - do clerics or paladins of a specific deity need to take Deific Obedience just to get to take one of the new prestige classes? Are they not already 'on-the books' as obedient servants of the deity or do all their levels of cleric and or paladin mean nothing to the deity they ALREADY serve?

Scarab Sages

The new prestige classes (Exalted, Evangelist, Sentinel) all have as a requirement "deific obedience". They do not have "deific obedience or levels in cleric or paladin".


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Rudy2 wrote:

With various deific obediences you get things like:

"Masterful Warrior (Sp): true strike 1/day, false life 2/day, or haste 3/day"

What does that "or" mean? Do you choose one of them when you first qualify for the ability? Do you choose it each morning, when you do your obedience?

On a less important note, who would ever choose true strike 1/day, over haste 3/day?

This is an interesting question.

The proper meaning of "or" in everyday English is what is usually denoted by and/or. So, properly, in the case of Masterful Warrior you would get all 3 of the abilities listed.

I have a rather brilliant, very eccentric and totally insane individual named Stanley Robinson to thank for driving this point home at tedious length in a previous geological age when I learned legal drafting. And those of you who have never had the misfortune to have to try to comprehend Assoc. Prof Robinson's ravings and be examined upon them should give protracted thanks to whatever gods you recognise.

On the other hand, the more commonly used meaning in contemporary English would be that you only get one of the powers, which is what everyone here thinks and I agree. Incidentally, this is also what the word "or" denotes in propositional logic. And those of you who have never had the misfortune to have to try to comprehend propositional logic and be examined on it should give protracted thanks to whatever gods you recognise.

With that I shall bring an end a post with a decidedly theological flavour, which is entirely appropriate given the topic.


Asherick "Ashe" Whiteplume wrote:
Here's a question - do clerics or paladins of a specific deity need to take Deific Obedience just to get to take one of the new prestige classes? Are they not already 'on-the books' as obedient servants of the deity or do all their levels of cleric and or paladin mean nothing to the deity they ALREADY serve?
I have been wondering this myself. Duiker responded with this answer and while I do agree with him it seems like a feat tax that is unnecessary, with maybe the exception of flavor.
Duiker wrote:
The new prestige classes (Exalted, Evangelist, Sentinel) all have as a requirement "deific obedience". They do not have "deific obedience or levels in cleric or paladin".

I have a Paladin of Iomedae and having to take Deific Obedience to become a Sentinel of Iomedae seems like a feat tax to me. If you wanna just get the boons with no prestige class then fine but if you want the prestige class then it seems costly.

I could also just be whining about "wasting a feat" as it were in my own head.
Thoughts?

Silver Crusade

Yes you need the feat, it is whining about a feat tax and the feat tax s just as powerful/a tax as Leadership or Power attack. You dont get bonuses just for free.


The whole point of these prestige classes is that you get the benefits of the feat earlier than you would otherwise. What would be the point of that if you don't have the feat?

Webstore Gninja Minion

Removed a post. There's no need for "bump" posts.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

So it's XOR ? (exclusive or) ?

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