Goblin Squad Member
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They are good for all sorts of things. Doing the wash, mopping floors, and holding dangerous chemicals.
They're just cheaper and less-durable golems, as far as I'm concerned. As long as you're not animating more than you can control and thus loosing the extras upon the world at large, I have much less problem with animated skeletons than I would with the enslavement of conscious beings.
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Goblin Squad Member
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But isn't loosing the extra's upon the world all part of the fun? *Grins, rubs hands together, and chuckles madly*How is a Chaotic individual going to retain citizenship in a Lawful settlement?
Latest info from Lee verifies that you only need to be within one step to join a Settlement. After that, there's no direct mechanical impact on the Settlement for having an Active Alignment that's further than one step.
[Edit] Lee's post
But isn't loosing the extra's upon the world all part of the fun? *Grins, rubs hands together, and chuckles madly*How is a Chaotic individual going to retain citizenship in a Lawful settlement?
Probably they won't Non-PAX Keovar. I think it's one non-diagonal step from the Settlement's alignment. Though what they haven't made clear (or perhaps I missed it) is how Core & Active alignments factor into this. Perhaps my good friend Nihimon would find us a reference?
Edit: Nvm, Nihimon, you beat me to the punch. Greater minds think alike.
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Goblin Squad Member
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But isn't loosing the extra's upon the world all part of the fun? *Grins, rubs hands together, and chuckles madly*How is a Chaotic individual going to retain citizenship in a Lawful settlement?
The UNC has a few Necromancers within our ranks. If you favor the Chaotic side of the dark arts, perhaps the Exalted Bastards are for you?
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Goblin Squad Member
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But isn't loosing the extra's upon the world all part of the fun? *Grins, rubs hands together, and chuckles madly*How is a Chaotic individual going to retain citizenship in a Lawful settlement?Latest info from Lee verifies that you only need to be within one step to join a Settlement. After that, there's no direct mechanical impact on the Settlement for having an Active Alignment that's further than one step.
[Edit] Lee's post
Maybe you had a different link in mind? Everything that Lee posted in that thread involves Reputation, not Alignment. Two very different things.
In regard to Alignment changes and being in a Settlement, the only thing I've seen is from this blog that states:
Only characters within one Alignment step in both their Core and Active Alignment can join the settlement, and if your Core Alignment falls out of that range you are forced out of the settlement.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If you wish to herd zombies and skeletons within your own borders, we can't stop you.
If you want to use them within the Spire, to trigger the traps, and aid in exploration, we don't have a problem, as long as you use the bodies of the local goblins to do so. And that you deactivate them, or give them orders to remain inert when you leave.
If any animated bodies enter our territory, from any direction, we can't promise they won't be treated as uncontrolled monsters, and 'retired'.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Now, I wouldn't dream of speaking for the entire lodge, here – indeed, my opinions on the matter most likely run contrary to those of many – but I personally find no fault in the efficient and productive use of the dearly departed’s inert matter… of course, I also recognise that this practice offends the delicate sensibilities of some, and it is to protect these sensibilities that our guild has taken the stance of “no open evil acts”.
With this in mind, I don’t think it too stringent a requirement that undead are not openly transported within our borders.
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Goblin Squad Member
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But isn't loosing the extra's upon the world all part of the fun? *Grins, rubs hands together, and chuckles madly*How is a Chaotic individual going to retain citizenship in a Lawful settlement?Latest info from Lee verifies that you only need to be within one step to join a Settlement. After that, there's no direct mechanical impact on the Settlement for having an Active Alignment that's further than one step.
[Edit] Lee's post
Maybe you had a different link in mind? Everything that Lee posted in that thread involves Reputation, not Alignment. Two very different things.
In regard to Alignment changes and being in a Settlement, the only thing I've seen is from this blog that states:
Only characters within one Alignment step in both their Core and Active Alignment can join the settlement, and if your Core Alignment falls out of that range you are forced out of the settlement.
Yeah, I obviously linked a post that didn't support my argument. I don't think it was so much that I had a different post in mind than it was that I simply failed to link an appropriate post.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Anyone out there who wants to practice the most heinous types of magic with out hiding it form those nosy paladins. Come move to Golgotha. Individuals and charter companies welcome.
I think Pharasma worshippers might take issue with all that undead running around as well ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I will remind everyone that we did have a similar debate before. Perceived morals aside, there is definitive "good" and definitive "bad" (unlike real life) which is decided upon by the Gods (both as stated in the books and GW's interpretations/needs). Necromancy is "bad" and no matter what task it is used for, it will cause slide to "evil" simply because it is inherently "bad". Now you might be using them to save an orphanage, or growing needed crops after a large-scale devestating war, but the result is the same.
In those cases, considering you will be affecting "good" towards npcs and players it is possible that some of the direct results of what your undead do are mechanically-supported "good" in which case you will regain some "good". But whether you do or not, undead = evil so you will always drop some alignment.
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Goblin Squad Member
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But isn't loosing the extra's upon the world all part of the fun? *Grins, rubs hands together, and chuckles madly*How is a Chaotic individual going to retain citizenship in a Lawful settlement?The UNC has a few Necromancers within our ranks. If you favor the Chaotic side of the dark arts, perhaps the Exalted Bastards are for you?
I'm more NE than CE. Loosing the Undead may seem like an act of Chaos, but it does create some distractions for the Crusader types, who might otherwise decide to practice their "ganking" skills on our fine citizens.
Plus, random encounters.....
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Goblin Squad Member
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I have zero problem shifting evil from necromancy. Its kind of the point. Anyone else who feels the same way about any type of magic is more than welcome in Golgotha.
Also I didn't start this thread to debate "morality" I just started it to let people know that there are organizations out there that support more than just an academic study of this sort of magic.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Anyone out there who wants to practice the most heinous types of magic with out hiding it form those nosy paladins. Come move to Golgotha. Individuals and charter companies welcome.I think Pharasma worshippers might take issue with all that undead running around as well ;)
Pharasma is clearly not operating within the parameters of her moral code in the RK, since she's apparently marked thousands with the ability to freely resurrect. Undead are like fire: when controlled, they're a useful tool, but maliciously negligent reanimators should be treated much like arsonists. Still, since we're all apparently incapable of building prisons, there's not much we can do but inconvenience even the worst criminals.
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...and then the peasants both exploded?
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Goblin Squad Member
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According to Golgotha I'm not a criminal.
According to RK lore, bandits should be seen as laudable types for following the tenets of the land, but instead they're flagged as criminals for all to attack.
Such is the life of those that live outside of societies norms in an online game!
Well, they are kind of borderline on the "Don't block the roads" policy. Depends on your interpretation.
I'll have you know they kept several of my vital organs from passing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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According to Golgotha I'm not a criminal.According to Golgotha you are a damn patriot.
So Golgotha is fine with members animating undead and turning them loose to cause random mayhem?
There may be an equivocation problem with the word 'Lawful'. Does it simply mean obeying laws, even if "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law", or does its opposition to Chaos imply an intrinsic orderliness?
Michael Moorcock wasn't writing game rules, so he left it up to the context of his novels to make it clear that Law & Chaos were objectively-identifiable things within his setting. D&D borrowed the terms but often didn't make it clear how they were meant, and different authors have had different interpretations. PFRPG inherited the terms along with the majority of the fans, but in PFO, a setting in which your actions can change your alignment, it's clear we're dealing with objective forces or states again. The devs may have relative judgement, but their code can't.
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Goblin Squad Member
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An odd, yellow, goat-drawn vardo slowly makes its way down an abandoned road towards a spooky cemetery wherein a band of necromancers, warlocks and foul creatures have gathered discussing necromancy and black magic. As the wagon draws nearer to the eerie area it suddenly comes to a halt and out its tiny side window pops a very lively, yet very old crone.
"Ey 'ye lot! What 'ye dark-n-twisty folk goin' on about, hmmm? Mayhap 'ye just celebrating a nameday, howbeit methinks something evil afoot! C'mere out that shadow, show Old Buurz what 'ye made of!"
<takes a puff oh her enormous pipe>
<grumble grumble>
I never said anything about letting them cause random havoc. It would be very specific havoc.
Please do not strawman, sir.
He said random mayhem.
Just dress up the ghouls as strawmen like spoilerspoilerspoiler.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hey! Nobody said anything about RANDOM mayhem! Personally I was just going to let my spare undead loose in the lands of people who were trying to oppress our pro-unlife recruitment drives.
If you make more than you can control... then they're not controlled. They're just as likely to turn on an ally as an enemy, or any other random person.
There you go having a starfish on your armpit again. Is that how we want the Northern Coalition to be represented? By Starpit over here?
God d*mn but I'm conducive to a rational debate