How do you heal broken fingers?


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Just wondering as far as the rules are concerned what healing spell do you require to heal broken fingers?

Can it be done with a Cure Light Wounds or is a more powerful spell required?


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As far as the rules are concerned, there is no way to break your fingers, so the question is moot.

Grand Lodge

Yeah - nothing in the RAW on breaks.

If you want to have that level of play? CLW would be good for sprains. CMW for broken fingers, noses etc, CSW for major bones, but again there isn't anything for breaks covered under the rules.


The closest analogy would be healing the movement penalty applied by running over caltrops, which IIRC, is removed with any magical healing.

Shadow Lodge

The Regenerate spell is used for when a limb is severed.

This should be up to your GM; they may have intended that you suffered a "severe enough" wound that a regular cure spell isn't sufficient.

RAW, cure spells are likely good enough, but this is pretty borderline that if it's the GM's intent was to cripple you, Regenerate is the one you'll need.

Scarab Sages

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Zhayne wrote:
As far as the rules are concerned, there is no way to break your fingers, so the question is moot.

If you go by published scenarios, healing broken bones requires Regeneration.

Spoiler:

In the Worldwound Incursion Avenia starts with a broken leg. Regeneration is called out as being required to mend the broken bones.


Or, as an alternative, you could treat the broken bones as Dexterity damage. Either way, it's going to be house rules, as nothing in the rules supports specific bodily injuries like this, instead simply abstracting everything down to hitpoints and ability score damages.

Grand Lodge

Is the DM using some kind of "called shot" alternate rules?

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

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As much as I don't like it, the spell description for regenerate specifically mentions broken bones. Why do broken limbs require a 7th level spell when being dead only requires a 5th level spell? I dunno.


Actually, on second thought, Regenerate is appropriate, and it does list mending broken bones in it's spell effects. Also, there is a monk feat called BoneBreaker, that allows a stunning fist attack to 'tear tissue and break bones', the result being strength or dexterity damage. This would also imply that any other effect that restores permanent ability score damage could be used - Restoration, Greater Restoration, or simply resting for x number of days to allow the bones to naturally heal (Long-term care from the heal skill will help, which would be seen as ensuring proper alignment and splinting/casting the limbs).


Ross Byers wrote:
As much as I don't like it, the spell description for regenerate specifically mentions broken bones. Why do broken limbs require a 7th level spell when being dead only requires a 5th level spell? I dunno.

Because legacy?


Actually that is just mostly dead.


If you kill someone with broken fingers and then raise dead them, are their fingers healed?

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

It's also weird that the cure spells, which can repair pretty much anything that would heal naturally over time, can't fix broken bones.

But broken bones, like severed limbs, pretty much only happen by GM fiat, so in that sense regenerate is the 'undoes GM fiat injuries' spell.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

The_Lake wrote:
If you kill someone with broken fingers and then raise dead them, are their fingers healed?

It says it closes wounds, but not that it knits bones, and that missing bits (i.e. things you'd need regenerate for) are not restored.

So sounds like you'd come back to life with your hand still broken, and have to wait 8-10 weeks for it to heal naturally.


Everything in the books reads like broken bones are the 'real cause' of certain ability score damage. For the hands, that would be dexterity damage. Having all the fingers broken on a hand would significantly affect dexterity, requiring quite a few full days rest to recover. Ultimately, it's the responsibility of the GM that issued the damage to describe that damage in game-rule terms.

Raise Dead does not restore ability damage (aside from bringing a 0 score to 1).


As a rule of thumb my own personal view if something requires regenerate to heal or if regular cure spells will works is will the injury have the ability to heal fully on its own, or with minor medical assistance like setting bones that aren't severely broken or bandaging, in a practical sense with natural healing? (I don't count minor cosmetic things like scars which technically will never fully heal but I allow cure spells to fix anyhow if the player chooses for them to and they are applied to fresh injuries.)

If the answer is yes then I will probably allow cure spells to fix it. If not and they have things like parts of their body missing, bones that are completely shattered, or organs that are severely damaged they will probably need regeneration.

As specific injuries rarely come up as most things are reduced to hit point damage it's almost never a issue. Really, I think things like this are more GM fiat than anything and even if one would allow cure spells to fix things it still depends on how powerful the spell or how many hp of healing is needed.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Ok to explain, players captured a sorcerer and decided to break his finger so she can't cast somatic spells. Seems reasonable even though it's not in the RAW.

I'll go with the cure spells rather than regenerate.
Thanks


Broken fingers to prevent somatic spells - I'd suggest Lesser Restoration for that - possibly multiple castings. Lesser Restoration normally only heals things that would heal on their own over time, which would apply in this case.

Grand Lodge

Really, it just sounds like Dex damage.


In core rules a broken finger is just fluff. There's no defined rules for breaking one. New subsystems introducing broken bones have to provide guidance how to heal them. Such systems might be critical hit systems like TPK Games Laying Waste: Critical Hits or maybe the optional called shot/debilitating blow rules from Paizo.

That said many of those will still not go into such fine granularity detail. For me Dex damage sounds about right. For casters maybe treat it like being bound with rope (see escape artist skill) or imposing condition like entangled or even grappled or pinned depending on the damage. And/or use the above link for a called shot/debilitating blow to the hand.

Grand Lodge

Wasn't there some rules on missing/injured limbs introduced in Skull & Shackles?

Grand Lodge

MrSin wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
As much as I don't like it, the spell description for regenerate specifically mentions broken bones. Why do broken limbs require a 7th level spell when being dead only requires a 5th level spell? I dunno.
Because legacy?

Raise Dead assumes that the body is relatively intact. It also requires an expensive material component, whereas regenerate does not.


Minor spoiler from Wrath of the Righteous:

Part1, Wrath of the Righteous:

p.12 wrote:
her leg mends enough that she can walk without a crutch, yet until she receives a regenerate spell, she won't be able to move at full speed.

It seems you really need the regeneration spell to heal wounds like that. Cure spells can "conjure" flesh, but not fix bones.

Liberty's Edge

blackbloodtroll wrote:
Wasn't there some rules on missing/injured limbs introduced in Skull & Shackles?

There are. They are fixed with Regenerate, which seems to be the standard rule.

Grand Lodge

Deadmanwalking wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Wasn't there some rules on missing/injured limbs introduced in Skull & Shackles?
There are. They are fixed with Regenerate, which seems to be the standard rule.

Which book?

Do you have a link?

I am truly interested.

Liberty's Edge

blackbloodtroll wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Wasn't there some rules on missing/injured limbs introduced in Skull & Shackles?
There are. They are fixed with Regenerate, which seems to be the standard rule.

Which book?

Do you have a link?

I am truly interested.

They're in the Player's Guide, which is free here. The rules are listed as optional...but that's mostly due to them being rules for getting such injuries, not fixing them.

Grand Lodge

HectorVivis wrote:

Minor spoiler from Wrath of the Righteous:

** spoiler omitted **

It seems you really need the regeneration spell to heal wounds like that. Cure spells can "conjure" flesh, but not fix bones.

I suspect that there is more in the background information on it, but I would suspect that you would only need the regenerate spell for broken limbs that were left without any sort of care or attention for a significant amount of time.

Broken leg? Ouch.

Heal skill to set the limb. No longterm issues, but recovery period would not be reduced.

Follow it up with cure spells to remove the general damage, and the bones would knit as the damage went away. The full healing of the bones, IMO, would be tied to the related stat damage. YMMV.

Include one or more lesser restorations to reduce the stat damage incurred with the broken limb, and the bones knit even faster, and better.

If the story allows, give the recipient of the broken limb a "free" divination ability, where the broken area now aches (1 point of stat damage?) when bad weather starts making up that is going to be heading their way. That fisherman whose ankle swells/aches when the weather is going to be stormy, etc.

Liberty's Edge

@kinevon:

That's a very reasonable way to do that...but you actually meet the NPC in question within an hour or two at most of their injury, so it's pretty clearly not precisely official.


No RAW answer for this question but a houserule as possible solution :
On my table a broken limb has STR and DEX 0. So everything that requires this particular limb is not possible as long as you dont have healed at least 1 point of STR and DEX. Then you have the normal penalties for low attributes.

Attribute damage is healed normally over time or with the related healing spells.

The Exchange

Since there are no apposite rules, I'll simply mention that my house rule (instituted after a particularly nasty trap did relatively little hp damage, but broke both ankles as part of its function) was that a Heal check to set the bone properly was necessary, after which regular healing magic would do the rest. (Bones that are healed while misaligned would probably use the permanent ability drain mechanic, but I never had to extend the house rule that far.)

Liberty's Edge

Use the 2nd ed rules. cure light wounds, for instance, couldn't heal broken bones.

I'm imagining this is for story, not RAW.

Paizo Employee

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I rule most injuries as "until fully healed or you are treated with a DC X Heal check as a standard action."

I really like needing the Heal to go in first, though. That actually makes a lot of sense. Admittedly, you could always rebreak the bone and then reapply magic, but it means you need to get a good Heal check in there somewhere.

Cheers!
Landon

Scarab Sages

It's all house rules, but then in game terms a broken bone is "flavor text"

But here is how I'd do it:

For broken FINGERS/TOES:

take a -2 on actions involving the hand in question, or a -5 movement rate

Make a DC 15 heal check to set the bone and a Cure Light Wound and it's healed and the penalty is removed.

OR

a Cure serious wound to heal it and remove the penalty.

OR

Heal 6 points of natural healing.

For a broken HAND/FOOT take the same -2, or a -10 movement rate

But it takes a DC 18 Heal check and a cure serious wounds to heal it

OR

A cure critical wounds.

OR

Take a DC 10 heal check (to set the bone) and 12 points of natural healing

For a broken ARM/LEG - the arm is useless until healed or a - 50% movement rate

Take a DC 21 heal check and a cure critical wound

OR

A cure severe wound

OR

A DC 15 Heal check and 24 points of natural healing

For a broken BACK/PELVIS

It will take a DC 30 Heal check and a cure severe wound

OR

A Heal or regeneration spell

OR

You are screwed.


kinevon wrote:
I suspect that there is more in the background information on it, but I would suspect that you would only need the regenerate spell for broken limbs that were left without any sort of care or attention for a significant amount of time.

Nope.

More informations:
It's the start of the adventure, players and NPC were trapped when the ground collapsed. the NPC just got injured. It happens at the first page of actual play to set the direct situation IIRC.

IMO, healing a broken limb with a heal check require time. A lot of time (as IRL). It would have been a good thing if the devs provided us with those kind of informations, even if it is corner case.

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