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Hi all,
been looking around to find exactly how many shots a Gunslinger would be able to fire with the combination of Double Pistol, Paper Cartridges, Rapid Reload and Rapid Shot, but I can't find anything that seems definitive. I am only looking at using one double pistol and no funky tricks - weapon chords , tails extra arms or the like.
So given a Gunslinger of level below 6th has one standard attack, would the combination of feats and gear above give him:
a) 3 Shots (Double pistol = 2, +1 more due to Rapid Reload reloading one barrel as a free action and Rapid Fire)
or
b) 4 shots (Double pistol = 2, +2 more due to Rapid Reload reloading both barrels as 2 free actions and Rapid Fire)
Taking it further if the character is now over 6th level and has access to the 1st iterative are the total number of attacks:
a) 4 shots (Double pistol = 2, +1 for Rapid Shot and Rapid reload, +1 for iterative and Rapid Reload)
or
b) 6 shots (Double pistol = 2, +2 for Rapid Reloading both barrels and Rapid Shot, +2 for Rapid Reloading both barrels and iterative)
In all examples assume that the Gunslinger will be firing both barrels.
Thanks all
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But remember that many GMs read the rules as: if both barrels fire on a double shot, the gun is destroyed.
(Some do also rule that rapid reload loads one barrel of a double pistol as a free action between shots, if you want to reload both, it is a longer action. This comes down to GM discretion, but it is not a common ruling. )
How do you reload it without a free hand?
Ah i get it, "Double Pistol" made me think of two pistols, not a pistol with two barrels.
From what I've been told over and over again on these forums, by both posters and developers alike, the answer would be six shots.
Normally you would have two shots from iterative attacks, plus one more for Rapid Shot, for a total of three attacks.
However, double-barreled pistol lets you get the option of taking two shots per attack. 3 attacks x 2 = 6 total shots (that is, six attack rolls and six damage rolls).
Double-barrel Pistol + Rapid Reload + Paper Cartridges + Rapid Shot:
BAB +1 to +5: 4 attacks
BAB +6 to +10: 6 attacks
BAB +11 to +15: 8 attacks
BAB +16 to +20: 10 attacksAnd Haste would add another 2 to each of the above situations.
And the dual-wielding juggling cheese can net you 2, 4, or 6 additional attacks if you can pull it off.
Potentially 18 attacks, even more than that if you can get more arms and the multiattack feat.
You can use Gun Twirling instead of Glove of Storing (though the feat tax is pretty high on that).
Anyone else think its funny they changed how weapon cords work, just to turn around and publish Gun Twirling...
Maybe they consider the feat tax high enough to justify it?
I didn't have any personal issues with TWF Gunslingers before, I just think its ironic.
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You can use Gun Twirling instead of Glove of Storing (though the feat tax is pretty high on that).Anyone else think its funny they changed how weapon cords work, just to turn around and publish Gun Twirling...
Maybe they consider the feat tax high enough to justify it?
I didn't have any personal issues with TWF Gunslingers before, I just think its ironic.
Needing weapon cords was never going to make the issue go away, the glove of storing was still a thing. Now the option is just pushed out far enough that it's cropping up at the same level Wizards are leveling battlefields, so it doesn't seem as bad. The feat also really favors firearm wielding Rogue's, so there's that.
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I always got the.impression that the issue with weapons cords was not that what they did was broken, just that they did it far too cheaply.
I think the goal was to push the issue out far enough that it wasn't going to be seen in the bulk of Society play and call it good 'nuff.
Weapon cords didn't actually even get you through a full attack sequence after 6th level since it was a swift action to retrieve the weapon. It basically gave you one free reload per round, so at first level you could get off an attack with both pistols and have them reloaded for the next round, which is where I guess it was a bit obnoxious.
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Actually you could get full attacks, you just fired and reloaded one pistol as many times as you could, then dropped it, recovered the other as a swift action and did the same with it
Quite right, I was forgetting about the whole not needing to alternate hands in a TWF sequence thing.
Ah well, either way, point remains that it was more of a "delay the issue so it doesn't come up in PFS all the time" fix as opposed to a "address the actual mechanics creating the issue" fix.
Which is fine really, I think that the mechanics behind firearms are all borked to hell anyways. Not one of Paizo's better subsystems. I always smile a little when I see a 3pp company that introduces a campaign setting where firearms are expected to be common and they're willing to just chuck the PF firearm rules out the door and introduce a nice straightforward system instead, like in Thunderscape. I know it's a little too late in the game to try fixing the system now that they've got an entire class and a good chunk of supporting material behind the current implementation, but this is one system that's basically always house-ruled in the non-PFS games I play in, either borrowing from systems that shave off or suppress the awkward pieces (Cerulean Seas agloo-tech firearms made them easier to both play and regulate), or using the Thunderscape style "they're just another weapon" philosophy.