Goblin Squad Member
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Uh, thanks Bludd, for posting something on topic.
If the UNC was accepted to join the accord, all accord members would have been set at blue. We may be bandits and want to rob everything that walks or crawls, but... our loyalty is unquestionable, and the level that we protect our own is really quite scary.
Wish you had been willing to unambiguously state this when discussions first occurred. The hedging was a big sticking point. While some of the discussions have been more than a little abrasive, it was the lack of a free and clear statement of support, which all other members have given, that inhibited us from welcoming you to the Accord.
Those of us that are part of the Accord do not share your opinion about the existence of a management. This was made clear during the formation, and stated openly, numerous times, without assertions to the contrary by any of the several hundred members.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@darcnes, As wexel has said, since he seams to have a good understanding of what the UNC stands for and desires, we as players want to promote positive game play and also meaningful game play. However, since this accord has 2 "requirements" to join and the other being mutual success, the ONLY way I see that working with our in-game characters would be a contract where we get paid to work for you. In that case, it would be mutually beneficial as we get paid and you get both protection and immunity from our attacks for a while. However, this would never be done on a constant bases, though contracts could be renewed if they are still beneficial to both parties.
If this is acceptable, then we think we can still hold a place within this accord. If this is not acceptable, then perhaps we share a common goal, but have different views as to how to reach it. If this is the case, we remain in our same mindset as before, we hold no grudge and no reserve towards anyone, group or individual. We still will promote positive game play and will enjoy being your content as much as you will be ours.
Yeah, I thought this was why UNC didn't join?
They aren't truly members of the Accord if they're getting paid, though. They're paid allies of the Accord. Kinda different thing. :P
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ Darrcnes,
We were the only group to state what our beliefs were, there was no hedging.
What we believe, and others have supported this view as well, major portions of this community do not respond well to openness. I don't know if they can't believe what they are reading, or they don't trust that anyone would admit to wanting to do what they say they will do. But, there is certainly a loss of benefit to being open, upfront and honest.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hey, Roseblood dudes. Your fridge is, like, totally out of beer. Also, hope you don't mind, but I invited a couple friends from the rogue threads. And two chicks from the paladin threads. And a guy from that Al Gore thread—I don't know him, but my buddy says he's got weed.
This party is gonna rock. Hey, guys from the Pax thread, mind going over to the store and getting us a keg?
I want you in my guild our company.
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Goblin Squad Member
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how you know they "do not respond well to openness"Because they haven't. It is a general impression that we have. You don't have to agree with it or understand it, it is what it is.
Well, it's what you claim it is. It's such an absurdly overbroad statement that I do not believe what you claim.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Wait, people are getting paid now? Like blackmail or something?
Whatever.
Anyway, I'm thinking that there are obviously only a small handful of people that truly care about what's going on right now. And while communication between the two opposing sides is great, I think it's too complicated in here.
Like, I don't see why this can't be boiled down to:
On Side A, we have member1, member2, and member3 that believe the following basic things (as simple as possible):
1
2
3
And vice-versa for the Side B. And then, logically debate or otherwise offer links/proof/wathaveyou to support your claims, and then QUICKLY, within a post or two back and forth, come to one of 3 possible conclusions:
a) side A is correct.
b) side B is correct.
c) there is not enough supporting evidence either way, and the SUBJECT SHOULD BE DROPPED.
*ramble, ramble*
Mebe I'm just being oversimplistic and idealistic or something along those lines. :P
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Goblin Squad Member
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Bludd, the post I linked (and others in this thread) seem to confirm that you expected payment in order to not attack other Roseblood Accord members.
Is this no longer the case?
My first post here:
[quote="The UNC intends to provide a positive gaming environment. You may add our company to the list if you wish.
To be more specific, since there seems to be a lack of specificity in the description of this accord:
We (UNC) will adhere to the following:
1. We will not corpse camp or respawn camp a recent victim of anyone's attack, unless that victim is a feud or war target and it is in our best interest to prevent that character from returning to the battlefield.
2. We will not prey upon new players, in the starter area, unless they are feud, war, bounty or assassination targets. The only other exception is if it is our member(s) that are also new and attempting to learn the mechanics of the game.
3. We will never use the chat channel to mock or ridicule our victims.
4. We will be helpful to new players or those who ask for advice, including and perhaps in particular those who we have defeated in combat.
5. This one is tricky and takes much thought and walking a tight rope: We will try our best that no company or settlement feels that it has been "singled out" for our predation, without our having declared them a feud or war target.
Furthermore, there will always be an avenue for mending relations with the UNC if relations have been soured to the point that both sides are not gaining any enjoyment from it.
Even though I have not run these five points through the UNC council, I fully expect that they would be approved. I am therefore making the executive decision that these can be accepted as UNC policy, and quoted verbatim in the future.
* Note that Faction and Faction Targets are not mentioned, because these would eventually become "passive" or "default" targets, requiring no further declarations on our part.
If you would, list the UNC as:
The UnNamed Company: Chaotic Neutral. Raiding, Banditry, Assassinations and Small Gang PvP specialists and trainers.
No mention of any payment. No mention of anything in return at all. It was a freely given offer, that was rejected.
And don't shovel that crap that "this is what every player is expected to do"..... If you expect more than 20% of the OE player base to offer that up for free, you're a fool and know nothing about open world pvp mmos.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It was a great offer Bludd, do not get me wrong. What was missing for us was a simple 'we agree to the Accord and wish to be a part of it'.
Knowing what you will or will not do is important for your own sake coming into the Accord. Every member should have given thought to this same question before signing on.
Clearly defining what you will and will not do as part of the conditions to joining, while open, is not in the spirit of the Accord. You must know where you will draw the line should the need occur; but once you actually put conditions on your membership, you have moved beyond what the Accord is meant to accomplish.
The phrase "what is not forbidden, is permitted" was a big influence on drawing the Accord up, as an example of behavior to avoid. Laying out terms of acceptance defeats the purpose of a long term commitment to asking two things of every action you take: is it good for the community/game, and is it going to hurt someone in the Roseblood.
If we had said, "Bludd, this is great, welcome aboard UNC", we would have had to accept that you were committed to the Accord, but only where you openly stated you were. The Accord is not a set of rules to abide by or laws to adhere to. It is an ideal, rather two of them, that we commit to moving towards. This is distinctly not the same as actions to shy away from.
This is what I mean when I say hedging your commitment. Everyone that has joined so far has simply said they agree with the Accord and they wish to sign up. None of us has put conditions on our willingness to join. The player must be a good fit to the Accord, rather than the Accord changing to fit each player. It certainly means something different to each player, but our commitments are the same.
This is all partly in response to Bludd, partly for anyone coming into the thread recently.
For those wondering, Audacity simply agreed to the commitments listed in the Accord. We made an effort to work out the kinds of positive gameplay we could engage in that would be of mutual benefit to ourselves and the others, and we have continued to do so as new members join.
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WE NEED GOOD BAD GUYS.Allow me to echo you echoing me by echoing myself, because this really is important.
Be the "bad guys". Be the conquerors, the tyrants, the expansionist empires. We need you.
Paxman Hears. Paxman Cares. Paxman Serves.
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Goblin Squad Member
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No, it is for each of us to decide for ourselves.Look,
The ONES who will Decide if it is a violation of the RULES IS Ryan and Company, NO ONE ELSE. They have the final and ending say in this matter.
Look,
Goblin Works made the rules,Goblin Works makes the game,
Goblin Works has stated they will have final say on matters.
So guess, what it's Goblin Work's House. So they are Judge, Jury, and Executioner.
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Goblin Squad Member
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But GW specifically said they can't and won't enforce rule #1, that it is up to the community to form their opinions on it and take action to correct it.
you mean
Ryan placed three restrictions on us:
1. If you, as a Guild, won a Settlement in LR1, don't create a second entry for LR2.
2. If you, as a Player, voted for a Guild that won a Settlement in LR1, don't vote for a different Guild in LR2.
3. If you, as a Player, intend to play as part of a Guild that won a Settlement in LR1, don't vote for a different Guild in LR2.
I don't think that works since it'll divide the players into angry groups, to the point where Goblinworks will be required to make the final call on it.
And I would say PAX is guilty of breaking Rule 1.
As would a lot of people. And an equal lot of people would say the opposite. Let it go. Let it go. Can't argue 'bout it anymore.
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Goblin Squad Member
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But GW specifically said they can't and won't enforce rule #1, that it is up to the community to form their opinions on it and take action to correct it.you mean
Ryan placed three restrictions on us:
1. If you, as a Guild, won a Settlement in LR1, don't create a second entry for LR2.
2. If you, as a Player, voted for a Guild that won a Settlement in LR1, don't vote for a different Guild in LR2.
3. If you, as a Player, intend to play as part of a Guild that won a Settlement in LR1, don't vote for a different Guild in LR2.I don't think that works since it'll divide the players into angry groups, to the point where Goblinworks will be required to make the final call on it.
And I would say PAX is guilty of breaking Rule 1.
I would say you were right if Pax Gaming was a guild and not a community.
I posted this elsewhere, but I think its just as relevant here.
What if T7V joined CotP?
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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But GW specifically said they can't and won't enforce rule #1, that it is up to the community to form their opinions on it and take action to correct it.you mean
Ryan placed three restrictions on us:
1. If you, as a Guild, won a Settlement in LR1, don't create a second entry for LR2.
2. If you, as a Player, voted for a Guild that won a Settlement in LR1, don't vote for a different Guild in LR2.
3. If you, as a Player, intend to play as part of a Guild that won a Settlement in LR1, don't vote for a different Guild in LR2.I don't think that works since it'll divide the players into angry groups, to the point where Goblinworks will be required to make the final call on it.
And I would say PAX is guilty of breaking Rule 1.I would say you were right if Pax Gaming was a guild and not a community.
I posted this elsewhere, but I think its just as relevant here.
What if T7V joined CotP?
Then we would still be ineligible to start a second settlement, have our members vote for a second settlement, or have people who voted for us in the first land rush vote for a different settlement. Why do you have any suspicion that any of that would change?
What if T7V joined the Northern Coalition? What would break first: The sanities of Nihimon and Bluddwolf, or the strands that hold what we call reality together?
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Goblin Squad Member
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What if T7V joined the Northern Coalition? What would break first: The sanities of Nihimon and Bluddwolf, or the strands that hold what we call reality together?
All of these accords or coalitions will probably fly out the window come OE. The whole political climate and whatever artificial culture EE develops will dramatically change.
Boutique Settlements will be wiped out in short order, because they will pose the least resistance for settlement seeking OE horde.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Uh, thanks Bludd, for posting something on topic.
If the UNC was accepted to join the accord, all accord members would have been set at blue. We may be bandits and want to rob everything that walks or crawls, but... our loyalty is unquestionable, and the level that we protect our own is really quite scary.Wish you had been willing to unambiguously state this when discussions first occurred. The hedging was a big sticking point. While some of the discussions have been more than a little abrasive, it was the lack of a free and clear statement of support, which all other members have given, that inhibited us from welcoming you to the Accord.
Those of us that are part of the Accord do not share your opinion about the existence of a management. This was made clear during the formation, and stated openly, numerous times, without assertions to the contrary by any of the several hundred members.
My support few away as soon as we were questioned by Nihimon. We had a list of questions we had to answer and then back up... etc. Of course, we did not see anyone else who joined after go through that.
Are you guys sure he is not the leader of the RA? Cause he sure acted like it when I looked at this thread last.
Also, taking the Pax discussion here was kinda dumb. He derailed the crap out of your thread.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Have points of not having a leader and then not actually having a leader are two different things.
You could very well be under the illusion that no one person rules... Most democracies fail to see past that illusion. There are usually one to a handful of people that have a charismatic/manipulative grasp on the majority and get what they want.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nihimon hasn't forced any Roseblood Accord or T7V member into any action, nor can any member do the same to him.
This is obvious to anybody genuinely interested in the truth; look back at all the friends of Nihimon that publicly posted their disagreements with him in this and other threads, sometimes very passionate disagreements.
The UNC withdrew their application willingly when they realized they would not be able to extort money from members in exchange for not raiding their caravans; stop pretending to be wounded. The 'extra' questions asked of you were necessary, apparently, because the UNC did not have the same idea of what the Accord is as every member then and since. That was the fear when the questions were asked, and it turns out that fear was justified.
Please, stop trying to manufacture and dredge up events long past.
Please ignore Xeen with extreme prejudice. He has a reputation.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nihimon hasn't forced any Roseblood Accord or T7V member into any action, nor can any member do the same to him.
This is obvious to anybody genuinely interested in the truth; look back at all the friends of Nihimon that publicly posted their disagreements with him in this and other threads, sometimes very passionate disagreements.
The UNC withdrew their application willingly when they realized they would not be able to extort money from members in exchange for not raiding their caravans; stop pretending to be wounded. The 'extra' questions asked of you were necessary, apparently, because the UNC did not have the same idea of what the Accord is as every member then and since. That was the fear when the questions were asked, and it turns out that fear was justified.
Please, stop trying to manufacture and dredge up events long past.
Please ignore Xeen with extreme prejudice. He has a reputation.
Factually false, your visitors to this thread can actually read I assume. Perhaps you should not pretend they can't. There are enough of third party and members of your own group that stated we were treated unfairly, and that too is in this thread.
Maybe I should stop assuming you can read? Or maybe you can't comprehend what you have read?
We withdrew our argument to join, when it became blatantly obvious that there would be an ever shifting goal post for us to meet.
The Accord's definition of "positive game play" is not supported the the design goals of PFO. This is not Sim City / Farmville, it is an Open World PVP MMO where settlement vs. settlement combat over limited resources is the content.
If you refuse to believe that is true, wait until OE proves you all wrong.
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Goblin Squad Member
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Nihimon hasn't forced any Roseblood Accord or T7V member into any action, nor can any member do the same to him.
This is obvious to anybody genuinely interested in the truth; look back at all the friends of Nihimon that publicly posted their disagreements with him in this and other threads, sometimes very passionate disagreements.
The UNC withdrew their application willingly when they realized they would not be able to extort money from members in exchange for not raiding their caravans; stop pretending to be wounded. The 'extra' questions asked of you were necessary, apparently, because the UNC did not have the same idea of what the Accord is as every member then and since. That was the fear when the questions were asked, and it turns out that fear was justified.
Please, stop trying to manufacture and dredge up events long past.
Please ignore Xeen with extreme prejudice. He has a reputation.
Factually false, your visitors to this thread can actually read I assume. Perhaps you should not pretend they can't. There are enough of third party and members of your own group that stated we were treated unfairly, and that too is in this thread.
Maybe I should stop assuming you can read? Or maybe you can't comprehend what you have read?
We withdrew our argument to join, when it became blatantly obvious that there would be an ever shifting goal post for us to meet.
The Accord's definition of "positive game play" is not supported the the design goals of PFO. This is not Sim City / Farmville, it is an Open World PVP MMO where settlement vs. settlement combat over limited resources is the content.
If you refuse to believe that is true, wait until OE proves you all wrong.
An odd, yellow, goat-drawn vardo slowly makes its way down the road towards Bluddwolf as he stands outside the great city of Phaeros where the esteemed Roseblood Accord was recently signed and proclaimed. As the wagon becomes parallel with Bluddwolf, it stops abruptly and out a tiny side window pops a very lively, yet very old crone.
"What thou 'goin on about, eh? What in the blizzards is a farmville? That some Eastern town?"
<Buurz seems to be thinking>
"Methinks ye might be confused with Farmington eh? But that 'ol rickety town is in the North next to them old bags of Irrisen! Silly slattern, 'ye look like the type that be confused. Care for a smoke? Calm you down it will, but thine brain still stay the same size!
<cackles>
<takes a puff from her enormous pipe>
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Goblin Squad Member
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The Iron Gauntlet agrees to the Roseblood Accords, as they are in line with our deep love of Abadar. We pledge our full support.
We're honored to have you. If you create a recruitment thread on these forums, I'll be able to list that in the Roseblood Accord section of the Guild Recruitment & Helpful Links list. Unfortunately, I can't list the Goblinworks.com links directly there.
We'd also be very interested in chatting with you on TeamSpeak. If that's something you'd be interested in as well, please send PM me here for the details. I also expect you'll have one of our ambassadors show up on your website soon to say hello and start the process of building closer ties.
Thank you again for your interest and support.
[Edit] I see you've already found our TS and chatted with Cheatle. I think he deserves a lot of credit for creating the Roseblood Accord and for making it something to be proud of. I made the original post because I was asked to, but Cheatle was the mover-and-shaker that got the ball rolling and I'm glad he's with us.