Goblin Squad Member
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Ok, let me ask you this...
Me, as a pure PVPer wants to join your settlement. I will not help run that settlement. I will not haul resources around to different areas, and I will not buy them to haul to the settlement. I will not be grinding to get the DI up unless it involves me making gold for stuff. I will fight for the settlement and when there is no one to fight, I will go find fights of my own.
Do I have a place in your settlement? (doubtful but never know)
Most certainly yes, as I explained in my previous post. If my Settlement needs combatfolk because I am in a War then I will need a Merc Company and my settlement better have provided for them when it comes to skill support(and Gold), else they will not come. And if they create havoc in the settlement that hires them I guess they will not be having many contracts after that.
I think there will be many settlements that do not have a strong military but enough gold (traders,crafters) and they will need Merc Companies to do their fighting. They should anticipate this and make sure they provide support for typical Merc skills. Not sure how long Wars and animosities last in PFO, but I guess some contracts could be ongoing and some would be short, sweet deals.
As Stephen said:
This would still imply being an official member of some settlement that supports your build and thinks your contribution as roving mercenaries is valuable
I do not not think Mercenary Companies are a cornercase; I do think those people that want to be free of *any* ties with settlements, all the time, are a cornercase though. Or should be. Personally I suspect these are the same people that think the Reputation and Alignment systems are too restricitve too, but that's just me.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I do not not think Mercenary Companies are a cornercase; I do think those people that want to be free of *any* ties with settlements, all the time, are a cornercase though. Or should be. Personally I suspect these are the same people that think the Reputation and Alignment systems are to restricitve too, but that's just me.
Nope, it's not.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It is by no means a corner case.
Were there no choices that lead to a downside, how will any choice be meaningful? Do you suppose there should be no way to make a meaningfully poor decision? Is every player's decision somehow the responsibility of the game? If so where do you see the liberty in that?
Liberty entails responsibility.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A paladin and barbarian could not be in the same settlement since they have conflicting alignment requirements (lawful/chaotic).
Unless you're rewriting the PFRPG rules, barbarians don't have to be chaotic, only nonlawful. A NG barbarian is therefore allowed, and could be a member of a LG settlement, unless you've removed that 'within one step' rule. Do diagonals count as one step or two, in regards to the settlement rules? I can understand not wanting everyone to try being a NN catch-all, but it also seems a bit weird to have settlement membership just as strict as clergy membership, and neutrality is usually understood to be the 'default' state of many mortal races.
Clerics have to stay within one step of their deity/philosophy, druids have to stay within one step of NN, and in either case, diagonals are not allowed. They lose all supernatural (Su) and spell-like (Sp) abilities if they drift too much.
Monks can be any lawful alignment, and similarly lose their (Su) abilities for falling out of that category.
Barbarians are fine with any nonlawful alignment, but will lose their ability to rage if they happen to chill the F*** out and become lawful. They generally still know how to put a greataxe through your forehead.
Paladins have to be LG and basically become feat-deprived fighters if they slip too far on either axis.
Rogues *can* be lawful. Rangers *do not* have to be good. There's a difference between non-something and actually endorsing it's inverse. I think we'll have enough to deal with adding a third axis (reputation) to the alignment system without dragging in old or confused baggage from other alignment systems.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A paladin and barbarian could not be in the same settlement since they have conflicting alignment requirements (lawful/chaotic).Unless you're rewriting the PFRPG rules, barbarians don't have to be chaotic, only nonlawful. A NG barbarian is therefore allowed, and could be a member of a LG settlement, unless you've removed that 'within one step' rule. Do diagonals count as one step or two, in regards to the settlement rules? I can understand not wanting everyone to try being a NN catch-all, but it also seems a bit weird to have settlement membership just as strict as clergy membership, and neutrality is usually understood to be the 'default' state of many mortal races.
Clerics have to stay within one step of their deity/philosophy, druids have to stay within one step of NN, and in either case, diagonals are not allowed. They lose all supernatural (Su) and spell-like (Sp) abilities if they drift too much.
Monks can be any lawful alignment, and similarly lose their (Su) abilities for falling out of that category.
Barbarians are fine with any nonlawful alignment, but will lose their ability to rage if they happen to chill the F*** out and become lawful. They generally still know how to put a greataxe through your forehead.
Paladins have to be LG and basically become feat-deprived fighters if they slip too far on either axis.Rogues *can* be lawful. Rangers *do not* have to be good. There's a difference between non-something and actually endorsing it's inverse. I think we'll have enough to deal with adding a third axis (reputation) to the alignment system without dragging in old or confused baggage from other alignment systems.
You make good points regarding barbs but I would also like to say that while the Neutral possibility is there, Chaos has more fun. :D
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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A paladin and barbarian could not be in the same settlement since they have conflicting alignment requirements (lawful/chaotic).Unless you're rewriting the PFRPG rules, barbarians don't have to be chaotic, only nonlawful. A NG barbarian is therefore allowed, and could be a member of a LG settlement, unless you've removed that 'within one step' rule. Do diagonals count as one step or two, in regards to the settlement rules? I can understand not wanting everyone to try being a NN catch-all, but it also seems a bit weird to have settlement membership just as strict as clergy membership, and neutrality is usually understood to be the 'default' state of many mortal races.
Clerics have to stay within one step of their deity/philosophy, druids have to stay within one step of NN, and in either case, diagonals are not allowed. They lose all supernatural (Su) and spell-like (Sp) abilities if they drift too much.
Monks can be any lawful alignment, and similarly lose their (Su) abilities for falling out of that category.
Barbarians are fine with any nonlawful alignment, but will lose their ability to rage if they happen to chill the F*** out and become lawful. They generally still know how to put a greataxe through your forehead.
Paladins have to be LG and basically become feat-deprived fighters if they slip too far on either axis.Rogues *can* be lawful. Rangers *do not* have to be good. There's a difference between non-something and actually endorsing it's inverse. I think we'll have enough to deal with adding a third axis (reputation) to the alignment system without dragging in old or confused baggage from other alignment systems.
You're right, of course. In all of this. I think we corrected my mistake a bit further up. Unfortunately some of our restrictions will stricter than in the PFRPG precisely because they are meant to be restrictions.
I mentioned up above that although there is 1 step leeway on most things (and as a result the 'non-lawful' class restrictions become effectively meaningless) there WILL be restrictions on training that go above and beyond the class descriptions in the Core Rulebook. We have much greater granularity than that so while Paladins will most likely be able to live in a settlement alongside Barbarians that settlement they will not both be able to train there. Its likely, for example, that Paladin Chapter houses will only be able to be built in LG settlements. Paladin support structures will probably be allowed in settlements with an alignment 1 step out from that, but the Paladins who live there will need to travel to train.
This is a restriction that exceeds those in the PFRPG, and this is deliberate. Settlements will have to make these meaningful decisions. This is not meant to complicate the issue of alignment, its meant to increase diversity across settlements and to encourage inter-settlement relationships.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I expect things to be strict for paladins, as they have the most strict requirements. That's part of what they're about. The same goes for monks, to a lesser degree. Narrowing barbarians down to chaotic-only instead of simply nonlawful misses the point of what they're about.
Paladins and monks may be the type to take a vow of celibacy, while barbarians are the type who simply don't give a f***.
Requiring barbarians to be chaotic turns them into some kind of 'opposite-day' parody of monks. "Close is close enough" makes sense for those whose ethos isn't built around strict adherences. A barbarian turning lawful and losing the ability to rage just represents them becoming too civilized to do their Hulk-out trick any more, not some failure to properly follow the rules of not following rules.
As to whatever was discussed about it above, I don't read much of these threads anymore, I just have a few RSS feeds set up for dev posts and only rarely catch up with those.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...people are going to be very upset about the money they spent on skills they cannot use.I don't know the answer: does that happen in EVE? Do people train something like Titans and then get very upset about that training if they can't find anyone to build them or give them one?
No, never seen that complaint
It takes 5-6 months to train to be a titan pilot, and that is after you are already skilled to fly plenty of other ships. Someone who put that time in knows what is required.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I did it quite a bit in Eve. We were not forced to run any city/settlement at all. We were recruited for a job, and moved from place to place with no worries about what we left behind.
I was hoping for some of that here
That does sound fun and less of a headache.
I hope the fact that you can't do that in PFO as easily doesn't dissuade UNC from being Mercs. You guys just need to make some hard choices to get it work is all, but Bluddwolf seems to have the determination to make it happen.
We had an absolute blast playing the game.
It will happen. I just think its ridiculous that you have to be settlement tied to train any skill and use it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I did it quite a bit in Eve. We were not forced to run any city/settlement at all. We were recruited for a job, and moved from place to place with no worries about what we left behind.
I was hoping for some of that here
That does sound fun and less of a headache.
I hope the fact that you can't do that in PFO as easily doesn't dissuade UNC from being Mercs. You guys just need to make some hard choices to get it work is all, but Bluddwolf seems to have the determination to make it happen.
We had an absolute blast playing the game.
It will happen. I just think its ridiculous that you have to be settlement tied to train any skill and use it.
You Wild Thing you!
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Goblin Squad Member
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I did it quite a bit in Eve. We were not forced to run any city/settlement at all. We were recruited for a job, and moved from place to place with no worries about what we left behind.
I was hoping for some of that here
That does sound fun and less of a headache.
I hope the fact that you can't do that in PFO as easily doesn't dissuade UNC from being Mercs. You guys just need to make some hard choices to get it work is all, but Bluddwolf seems to have the determination to make it happen.
"By hook or by crook"
I thought of this phrase, and looked it up and quickly it has become one of Bluddwolf's [ICC] core beliefs:
"By hook or by crook" is an English phrase meaning "by any means necessary", suggesting that one need not be concerned with morality or other considerations when accomplishing some goal. The phrase is very old, first recorded in the Middle English text Controversial Tracts by John Wyclif in 1380.[1]
The origin of the phrase is obscure, with multiple different explanations and no evidence to support any particular one over the others.[2] For example, a commonly repeated suggestion is that it comes from Hook Head in Wexford, Ireland and the nearby village of Crook, in Waterford, Ireland. Another is that it comes from the customs regulating which firewood local people could take from common land; they were allowed to take any branches that they could reach with a billhook or a shepherd's crook.[3] More likely it simply means, "by any means necessary" or "using whatever means are available". The word crook has a connotation of crookedness, perversity and wickedness, while hook might suggest subtlety, deceit, cunning, chicanery, or trickery.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I just think its ridiculous that you have to be settlement tied to train any skill and use it.
Everything I have seen lately says that you do not need to tie yourself to a settlement.
You can claim a POI independently of a settlement, you can support classes from a POI, and you can train skills without being part of a settlement (assuming the settlement allows).
This is a perfectly legitimate means of play for those who wish to have no obligations or ties to any given settlement. Come into town long enough to secure supplies and train, go home and do your thing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah, that is correct Tyncale. Regardless, you have to be a part of a PC settlement to get the skills anyway.
Xeen, I am not sure if that is true: I think Darcnes was referring to this answer from Stephen: skill-training vs skill-support
Not sure if Tork or Lee contradicted Stephen in this, but this *could* mean that *obtaining* or training up a skill is independent of you being part of a settlement; however it will be greyed out if you are not a member of a settlement or PoI that supports it.
So basically this means that as an unaffiliated player you go to a Settlement (alignment and rep allowing off course), then browse a bunched of greyed out skills, buy them or upgrade any existing ones you have, and they will off course stay greyed out as long as you stay unaffiliated.
*Or*: you must be part of a settlement that *supports* them(but does not offer buying or upgrading them), and *then* you can go to another settlement that *does* sell them/allows upgrading. Because then you would actually be buying/upgrading skills that you can use right away.
If the latter is true then you are right. I hope we can get an asnwer to this.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Based off the explanation in the first page of this thread, it looks to me like you can purchase/train your skills where ever they are available, regardless of your ties to that settlement. They just won't be usable unless your Company or Settlement has the appropriate structure.
"And even if your current settlement doesn't support the training you're buying somewhere..."
Also...
To the best of my knowledge, that's right.You can go to any city and train using the facilities they have, at any point, regardless of which Settlement or Company you belong to (so long as you have the XP/money required).
In order to actually make use of the skills you have trained though, your Settlement/POI must support that training through support facilities of the proper tier.
Did I get that right?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Some things are still unclear to me. I will just put it up in questions, hopefully Stephen, Lee or Tork can answer them.
1) When you form a Company that is not chartered to a PC Settlement, and does not have a PoI yet, does the Company and its members default to a NPC city?
2) When the Company has a PoI but is not chartered to a PC settlement, is it still linked to an NPC settlement? (I am thinking no)
3) Can a player be a member of a PC settlement without being in a Company? (I think yes)
4) Can a player that is not part of a PC settlement in any way (directly or through a chartered Company) actually buy new skills and feats from a PC settlement (alignment, rep, xp and prereqs allowing)? Or does he first have to be part of a settlement or PoI that supports it (but not sells it)?
5) Is there a difference between buying a completely new skill or Feat, and upgrading such a skill/feat from skill level 1 to skill level 2? I am asking this because I am not sure what "maintaining" a skill exactly means(the thing that support buildings do and PoIS). Does this just mean that your skill (at whatever level it is) simply works when you are allied to this building through membership, or does it mean you can also buy an upgrade to an existing skill (but not obtain it as a completely new skill)?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I see a niche market here for 'training camp settlements':
Upon reaching the steps to T3, Paladins leave their settlements for a few months and travel to the mountain monastery of Petraathen to be initiated in the secrets of the order. Rogues and bards similarly slip away to the big city, clerics go on pilgrimages and wizards apply for a scholarship at Phaeros University. After a few months they return, smug and full of new secrets.
I'm sure we could see someone trying to run a chaotic mercenary settlement (Tortuga!) renting out training (and membership if needed) for barbarians and bandits.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I see a niche market here for 'training camp settlements':
Upon reaching the steps to T3, Paladins leave their settlements for a few months and travel to the mountain monastery of Petraathen to be initiated in the secrets of the order. Rogues and bards similarly slip away to the big city, clerics go on pilgrimages and wizards apply for a scholarship at Phaeros University. After a few months they return, smug and full of new secrets.
I'm sure we could see someone trying to run a chaotic mercenary settlement (Tortuga!) renting out training (and membership if needed) for barbarians and bandits.
It is my hope that Prophecy will be able to offer Barbarian training just like this.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Some things are still unclear to me. I will just put it up in questions, hopefully Stephen, Lee or Tork can answer them.
Questions:
1) When you form a Company that is not chartered to a PC Settlement, and does not have a PoI yet, does the Company and its members default to a NPC city?2) When the Company has a PoI but is not chartered to a PC settlement, is it still linked to an NPC settlement? (I am thinking no)
3) Can a player be a member of a PC settlement without being in a Company? (I think yes)
4) Can a player that is not part of a PC settlement in any way (directly or through a chartered Company) actually buy new skills and feats from a PC settlement (alignment, rep, xp and prereqs allowing)? Or does he first have to be part of a settlement or PoI that supports it (but not sells it)?
5) Is there a difference between buying a completely new skill or Feat, and upgrading such a skill/feat from skill level 1 to skill level 2? I am asking this because I am not sure what "maintaining" a skill exactly means(the thing that support buildings do and PoIS). Does this just mean that your skill (at whatever level it is) simply works when you are allied to this building through membership, or does it mean you can also buy an upgrade to an existing skill (but not obtain it as a completely new skill)?
Let me see if I can expedite some of this for you.
1) If you login and you somehow no longer have a settlement, you will immediately default to an NPC settlement. You should always have use of NPC city facilities.2) I will leave this for the devs. I would also like to see it clarified on whether a POI company only gets the support of the POI itself, or all of what the settlement they are chartered to has, as well as what the POI supports.
3) Also one I would like to see the devs answer.
4) Everything the devs have said so far heavily suggests that the only restrictions you will face when using the facilities of a settlement you do not belong to are imposed by that settlement's own governance (and alignment of course). This is completely independent of anything your settlement may or may not have. You can train anything you are eligible for at that settlement, you may only use what your own settlement has support for. This includes the difference between Tier 2 and Tier 3 abilities for example. You might have a T3 ability, but until your settlement upgrades their T2 support structure it will be greyed out.
5) Tier 1 is cheaper, quicker to acquire than Tier 2. Support simply means you have access to a given set of skills at a given level (tier). The support structures do not offer training.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm pretty sure I know the answers to most of these from past blogs/discussions;
1) When you form a Company that is not chartered to a PC Settlement, and does not have a PoI yet, does the Company and its members default to a NPC city?
Settlement membership is completely independent of Company membership. Characters in the same Company can be members of different settlements. Characters who are not members of a PC settlement automatically default to membership in an NPC settlement. Companies are not so much 'members' of settlements as 'sponsored' or 'chartered' by them. Companies cannot be sponsored by NPC settlements.
2) When the Company has a PoI but is not chartered to a PC settlement, is it still linked to an NPC settlement? (I am thinking no)
No. NPC settlements never sponsor/charter PC PoIs.
3) Can a player be a member of a PC settlement without being in a Company? (I think yes)
Yes.
4) Can a player that is not part of a PC settlement in any way (directly or through a chartered Company) actually buy new skills and feats from a PC settlement (alignment, rep, xp and prereqs allowing)? Or does he first have to be part of a settlement or PoI that supports it (but not sells it)?
Characters can learn new abilities from any settlement (including NPC settlements) whose rules allow it OR from PoIs controlled by their Company. I don't know if it is possible to learn from PoIs controlled by other Companies.
5) Is there a difference between buying a completely new skill or Feat, and upgrading such a skill/feat from skill level 1 to skill level 2? I am asking this because I am not sure what "maintaining" a skill exactly means(the thing that support buildings do and PoIS). Does this just mean that your skill (at whatever level it is) simply works when you are allied to this building through membership, or does it mean you can also buy an upgrade to an existing skill (but not obtain it as a completely new skill)?
Yes, 'buying' abilities and 'supporting' them are different things. Once you buy something you 'have' it forever, but you can only USE it if it is being supported by your settlement or Company PoIs. Structures for buying abilities seem to usually also support them, but there are also apparently structures focused on supporting abilities without being able to buy/train them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thanks guys.
I know about the difference between Buying (or obtaining or training, all words that have been used) a skill and simply Supporting a skill, I was just wondering if there is a third possibility that is provided by the *supporting* buildings, which is the upgrading of a skill; so not the initial first buy of the skill-line or Feat, but the increments after that: from 2 to 3. I ask this, because of the phrase "maintaining" that was used by Stephen for support buildings. Maintaining seemed to imply a bit more then just supporting, but I am undoubtedly reading too much in the word. I am sure you guys are right about this, it makes sense.
About 4) I can not read from Stephens posts that you can buy/upgrade Feats/skills at another settlement that offers them while you are currently a member of a settlement that does not even support those. If you can , it would mean they are allowing you to buy skills/feats that you can not even use right away: i.e. you are basically browsing from a list of greyed out skills. I would expect something to happen like: "You can not buy this skill now, since your own settlement does not support it".
It could be very well the case that you actually can buy them, unsupported, I just can not read this from Stephen's post.
I am pretty sure about 1,2 and 3, but could not readily find quotes for them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Upgrading from Tier 2 to 3 will require an upgraded training structure, you will also need the corresponding Tier of support structure at home to keep those abilities unlocked.
There was some implication about unused skills being impacted, but nothing firm that I was able to discern.
I am pretty sure this is the case with number 4. I believe an example was given where you could go train in an advanced skill and come back to shame your settlement into upgrading a support structure to handle your new skill.
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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Some things are still unclear to me. I will just put it up in questions, hopefully Stephen, Lee or Tork can answer them.
1) When you form a Company that is not chartered to a PC Settlement, and does not have a PoI yet, does the Company and its members default to a NPC city?
2) When the Company has a PoI but is not chartered to a PC settlement, is it still linked to an NPC settlement? (I am thinking no)
3) Can a player be a member of a PC settlement without being in a Company? (I think yes)
4) Can a player that is not part of a PC settlement in any way (directly or through a chartered Company) actually buy new skills and feats from a PC settlement (alignment, rep, xp and prereqs allowing)? Or does he first have to be part of a settlement or PoI that supports it (but not sells it)?
5) Is there a difference between buying a completely new skill or Feat, and upgrading such a skill/feat from skill level 1 to skill level 2? I am asking this because I am not sure what "maintaining" a skill exactly means(the thing that support buildings do and PoIS). Does this just mean that your skill (at whatever level it is) simply works when you are allied to this building through membership, or does it mean you can also buy an upgrade to an existing skill (but not obtain it as a completely new skill)?
I think the answers you got to these questions were correct above, but I'll provide a quote so you can hold it against me later ;)
1)A company does not default to anything, since a company does not need to be sponsored. A player DOES default to an NPC settlement. Discussions are on-going about exactly how we determine to which NPC city a person/new player is allocated.
2) Nopey. The PLAYERS are still linked to their NPC settlements AND to their PoI (if it offers any skills), but the the Company itself remains independent.
3) Yes.
4)Yes, he can. Settlements can determine WHO can buy from them. This allows them to set additional restrictions for outsiders making purchases (like higher Rep or Alignment or Factional ratings) above and beyond what is required for membership. They can also set different prices for members and non-members.
5) No. Purchasing skills and skill levels is the same process, except that nothing very exciting happens when you upgrade a skill except that it gets better. By that I mean you dont get something NEW, you just get something better.
'Maintaining skills' refers to being able to USE skills that you have ALREADY purchased. So lets say I buy a tier II skill and a tier III skill in my settlement. I can continue to USE these skills ONLY for as long as my settlement has a structure that can either sell or support that skill. If my settlement gets destroyed I will default back to an NPC settlement. The NPC settlement will not support my tier III skill (because its a total craphole) but I will lose the use of that skill until I find a new settlement who does support it. In the mean time, however, I can continue to freely use my tier II skill to smash faces with.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Awesome, thanks Tork.
So a player can purchase a skill at some settlement(if that settlement allows it to this person), even if that player is not part of a settlement that can support the skill. This should give a little more freedom for players who are looking to buy their next skill/feat already, but have not found a settlement yet that will support it.
Clear! And thanks, Darcnes and C.B.
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Goblin Squad Member
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4) Can a player that is not part of a PC settlement in any way (directly or through a chartered Company) actually buy new skills and feats from a PC settlement (alignment, rep, xp and prereqs allowing)? Or does he first have to be part of a settlement or PoI that supports it (but not sells it)?4)Yes, he can. Settlements can determine WHO can buy from them. This allows them to set additional restrictions for outsiders making purchases (like higher Rep or Alignment or Factional ratings) above and beyond what is required for membership. They can also set different prices for members and non-members.
When a settlement sets prices for these things, does it set them for everything in the settlement or can different prices and requirements be set for each individual structure?
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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Two speedy answers:
- A settlement will most likely eventually be able to set prices on individual structures. This might be in later patches (because settlement UI is going to be such a beast it will very possibly come out in fits and starts).
- Members of settlements do NOT get PoI benefits unless they are also members of the company who owns the PoI. They can train at PoIs if the PoI owners let them (which is VERY likely of course, if they are allied) but the settlement itself will need to have a support structure to cover the skills trained at the PoI for those who are not members of the PoI company. This may be subject to change in the future, but bear in mind that PoI training is mostly skills (few feats) which are trained by so many structures that most settlements will end up covering most skills without even trying.
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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Just a quick post to say thank you to all the devs who have posted in this thread. I think I speak for all of us when I say that it really is appreciated.
Sure! Its equal parts frightening and fun to keep you all up to date. You never quite know how folks are going to react! Its very helpful to get feedback on these systems though - positive or negative. And this place is a damn sight less frightening than the Darkfall forums... There be dragons.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Just a quick post to say thank you to all the devs who have posted in this thread. I think I speak for all of us when I say that it really is appreciated.Sure! Its equal parts frightening and fun to keep you all up to date. You never quite know how folks are going to react! Its very helpful to get feedback on these systems though - positive or negative. And this place is a damn sight less frightening than the Darkfall forums... There be dragons.
Early Darkfall was a much nicer place, but I agree with you, this place Mr.Rogers to Darkfall's Cartman from South Park lol.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Just a quick post to say thank you to all the devs who have posted in this thread. I think I speak for all of us when I say that it really is appreciated.Sure! Its equal parts frightening and fun to keep you all up to date. You never quite know how folks are going to react! Its very helpful to get feedback on these systems though - positive or negative. And this place is a damn sight less frightening than the Darkfall forums... There be dragons.
The global chat ain't purty either.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ok, I think I have a handle on it, but I do have a question:
Say you have a Tier II skill/feat that has levels to it. You go to another settlement to train it from level 5 to 6 because your settlement does not have this training.
Your settlement does have the support structure for this Tier II skill/feat, but it is at the base level (they never upgraded it after purchasing it).
Can you still use this Tier II skill/feat? I think yes.
Do you get the full effect of your training in it or are you at the base level since that is what the support structure is currently?
And thanks for all the information - it is looking very interesting!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Just a quick post to say thank you to all the devs who have posted in this thread. I think I speak for all of us when I say that it really is appreciated.Sure! Its equal parts frightening and fun to keep you all up to date. You never quite know how folks are going to react! Its very helpful to get feedback on these systems though - positive or negative. And this place is a damn sight less frightening than the Darkfall forums... There be dragons.
Dont misunderstand my concerns. You guys are doing a great job.
I will always give you my opinion whether good or bad. Skills that you lose, the cash shop, and well I think thats about it... are the only things that concern me with the game.
The biggest part of the skill thing that bothers me is... When I read about the game, the skill based idea was utterly and completely compared to Eve, as a skill based classless system. Right now as I see it, you have to slot as a class and your skills are based on a settlement.
The fact that I can train skills that I will likely lose... Means I will not likely train those skills. Eh, maybe in the future, try not to push people to be part of settlements. I know PFO is a settlement conflict game, but there is much more to settlement conflicts then just being a part of a settlement.
(I can live with this, just throwing it out there) Slotting you as a class makes it a class based system. Not much else to say there. PFO is a class based system. If it was more of a skill based system, you equip the items you can use and get the penalties/drawbacks of it. If your casting spells while wearing full plate, your likely to eat your spell. etc
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ok, I think I have a handle on it, but I do have a question:
Say you have a Tier II skill/feat that has levels to it. You go to another settlement to train it from level 5 to 6 because your settlement does not have this training.
Your settlement does have the support structure for this Tier II skill/feat, but it is at the base level (they never upgraded it after purchasing it).
Can you still use this Tier II skill/feat? I think yes.
Do you get the full effect of your training in it or are you at the base level since that is what the support structure is currently?
And thanks for all the information - it is looking very interesting!
I believe that once you have a skill, you can train it up in levels without needing to go somewhere. I may be wrong. I need to read some more on skill stuff.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It seems pretty reasonable to expect that only the most organized settlements are going to be able to achieve the highest level of training.
While the 'support' structure is rather contrived, the way it is implemented means that you are not likely to lose a given skill altogether (provided it is not itself alignment based), but rather the highest levels of training for it. At the same time, it goes a long ways towards ensuring that people will need settlements, and thus keep the focus of conflict centered on them and less diffusely spread across the River Kingdoms.
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Goblin Squad Member
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When I read about the game, the skill based idea was utterly and completely compared to Eve...Some folks tried to point out that your insistence that PFO would be "just like EVE" wasn't based on reality...
I never said PFO would be just like Eve. I said it would be similar. If you bother to look at THE EVE MODEL for skill description you would see where their model for skills was taken from.
Thanks for continuing to be the complete a$$ I always knew you were.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thanks for continuing to be the complete a$$ I always knew you were.The UNC diplomat, he is not
We had an agreement to stop the nonsense, the UNC agreed and stuck to it. He did not. So I have no need to be diplomatic with him.
Guys like Andius, who we used to fight with all the time. As much or more then Nihimon... I have respect for him (Andius), he follows through with agreements. We do not fight with each other at all. I dont do it, he doesnt do it. If he throws a comment up I dont care for, Its left alone, and he does the same.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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The fact that I can train skills that I will likely lose... Means I will not likely train those skills. Eh, maybe in the future, try not to push people to be part of settlements. I know PFO is a settlement conflict game, but there is much more to settlement conflicts then just being a part of a settlement.
Right. For example, when you lose your settlement, rather than complain about losing the ability to use certain abilities, you can fall back, assess your situation, try to understand your mistakes and move forward.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A paladin and barbarian could not be in the same settlement since they have conflicting alignment requirements (lawful/chaotic).
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Sorry to NECRO this, but this thread happened the week I was on travel, and North Virginia lead to destruction of work computer. Only recently discovered it some pages of history down.Barbarian is limited to non-law so could be NG and part of LG settlement.
The settlement could be NG having both LG, NG, CG, and NN members. One could even imagine a tale about how these two adventure together with an innate disconnect, but bound by some common goals (Andius is prone to advertise one, anti-slavery).
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Goblin Squad Member
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Some requirements in PFO may not be the same as in Pathfinder TT. That said, a NG settlement should still be able to house a LG Paladin and a CG Barbarian the same as a LN settlement could house a LG Paladin and a LE Wizard.
Yeah, but luckily there is more time before barbarians are released so there's still a chance that they may come to their senses and not turn barbarians into some kind of inverse parody of monks.
Making freedom-lovers just as strict as discipline-lovers is nonsensical.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Is there any allowance for a settlement to have a support structure 2 steps from alignment? You commented that the Paladin tier 3 Chapter training house would have to be on LG. Does that hold for Religious houses. Must the highest training temple match the alignment of the settlement. How close do tier 3 religious support structures need to be to settlement alignment? This may require some clerics to shift settlements at this point.
Can religious shrine POI have structure support for tier 3 for that cleric? Can a Shrine have two gods of same alignment? Of different alignment? What about described affinity from PF TT?