At first I liked the idea...but as I read the archytype...it's almost useless unless you are suicidal.
Con damage that cannot be healed except through natural healing..for 1 pool point ?
A cool sword....but it can't be used unless you have used the above ability that day...
The only ability that it grants that you don't have to seriously damage yourself to use, is the ability to bypass evil outsiders DR.
Am I missing something ?
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It is still kind of a suicidal Ability... If you want a bad ass weapon, I am in preference of using the Blade Bound Archetype...
You're missing that you don't give anything up for these abilities.
Your not really gaining anything outside of flavor either.
Sure, it adds some different options for abilities to the weapon...but you can enchant any weapon anyway.
Calling the blood blade is flavorfull....but not at the expense of 2 points of con.
IMO, If it was HP's you where sacrificing instead of con....then it would be worth it as written.
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You're missing that you don't give anything up for these abilities.
On the other hand, its also a waste of space and those abilities that are on that page are arbitrarily attached to a specific race that can only use them outside of houserules. Give up nothing, gain a page of text you may as well black out.
You're missing that you don't give anything up for these abilities.On the other hand, its also a waste of space and those abilities that are on that page are arbitrarily attached to a specific race that can only use them outside of houserules. Give up nothing, gain a page of text you may as well black out.
Still, options are options. They don't necessarily need to be good options under normal circumstances...but hey, can you guarantee that you won't end up in abnormal ones?
If it is a decision between some suicidal act and TPK...well, you might as well take it. What do you have to lose at that point?
I actually built a Fiend Flayer with the Bladed Scarf Dancer archetype for the Magus, and while the character in question isn't as powerful as the party Cleric (who's PC has chosen to play their Cleric as a Wizard who can heal, incidentally) or as damaging as the parties Gnome Barbarian, I'm certainly having fun with this character. The reason I took these two archetypes together is because if I perform trip attempts with my Bladed Scarf (which I do routinely) and I get a natural one on my d20 roll, I stand a chance of getting tripped myself. Since dropping a weapon is a free action, all I've had to do (in the two times this situations has come up) was drop my weapon and use the Fiendblade talent that I chose to call up another Bladed Scarf as a Swift action. Combined with the Bladed Scarf Dancer's Elasticity talent granting my bladed scarf reach until the end of my turn. Since I use my Fiendblade to create a Bladed scarf, and the Elasticity talent is a free action to activate, I can keep making ranged trip attempts without interruption. While I'm not as powerful as sturdy in combat due to my spending Con damage to gain some nifty abilities, those abilities have saved me from having to risk taking an AoO for fighting without using a weapon.
Oh, and my character is roughly level 10, so arcana points aren't a problem for me, and my con score is a 16, so even by spending four con damage to have two extra arcana. That said, it is a little difficult fighting in melee at this point with only a con of 12 with spending these points, but my party plus some magic items make it so that I'm not the weakest link. That, and the party Cleric keeps me alive.
A fiend flayer is strictly better than an otherwise equivalent tiefling magus. What's not to like? At worst, you get the option of using Bypassing Strike.
I kind of hate tieflings, but there's no reason to hate the mechanics of the archetype other than the fact that it lacks a balancing factor.
I think there is a trait that increases natural healing from ability damage. And if it is con damage (not drain) it should be healed by lesser restoration.
A fiend flayer is strictly better than an otherwise equivalent tiefling magus. What's not to like? At worst, you get the option of using Bypassing Strike.
I kind of hate tieflings, but there's no reason to hate the mechanics of the archetype other than the fact that it lacks a balancing factor.
If one ability is your only motivation to take an archytype...then the archytype is kind of a fail in my book.
I think there is a trait that increases natural healing from ability damage.
This MIGHT be usefull...depending on how it's worded. Something that simply increases your normal healing time in general should work against this damage.
Don't suppose you remember the name of the trait ???
And if it is con damage (not drain) it should be healed by lesser restoration.
Nope...no magical healing allowed.
Now at 5th level getting access to lawful/axiomatic/unholy is nice...unfortunately you don't get access to something I would prefer...holy. For the few of us that like to play good heroes.
Hmmm... evil people would want their hands on holy weapons too. I mean, you are much, much more likely to see violent infighting and backstabbing with evil.
And heck, once you start to hit a certain power level, I sometimes think that DR/alignment only works as a defense against similarly aligned creatures since the 'enemies' will usually have access to aligned attacks.
I think there is a trait that increases natural healing from ability damage.This MIGHT be usefull...depending on how it's worded. Something that simply increases your normal healing time in general should work against this damage.
Don't suppose you remember the name of the trait ???
And if it is con damage (not drain) it should be healed by lesser restoration.Nope...no magical healing allowed.
No, it says no lesser Restoration. Restoration and other methods works fine.
But what are you giving up for it? Fiendish Sorcery.
If one ability is your only motivation to take an archytype...then the archytype is kind of a fail in my book.
Wait, why are you giving up fiendish sorcery?
You've been summoned to a meeting and are told to come unarmed. They know you are a magus, so you are disarmed and travel over a mile. You expected a trap and it manifests. You suddenly have a weapon. You broke no rules or your word. You did come unarmed, but they proved false. Ace in the hole.
Alternatively you carried a concealed weapon or cestus or something similar. Lots of ways out of a single problem. Plenty of fun to be had setting up contingencies anyway.
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No, it says no lesser Restoration. Restoration and other methods works fine.I think there is a trait that increases natural healing from ability damage.This MIGHT be usefull...depending on how it's worded. Something that simply increases your normal healing time in general should work against this damage.
Don't suppose you remember the name of the trait ???
And if it is con damage (not drain) it should be healed by lesser restoration.Nope...no magical healing allowed.
Hhmmmm....It does in fact only specifically call out lesser restoration....however it then goes on to say "Only time can heal the constitution damage taken by way of infernal mortification."
To my mind that means no magical healing.....I wonder which it was meant to be ???
Fiend Flayer is an excellent archetype, particularly when one considers the fact that it's possible to work around the self-inflicted con damage. Despite the way it's worded, there are methods other than magic with which to reat it.
Care to share some of these methods ?
Was the feat mentioned upthread possibly Rest for the Wicked from Bastards ?
No, it says no lesser Restoration. Restoration and other methods works fine.I think there is a trait that increases natural healing from ability damage.This MIGHT be usefull...depending on how it's worded. Something that simply increases your normal healing time in general should work against this damage.
Don't suppose you remember the name of the trait ???
And if it is con damage (not drain) it should be healed by lesser restoration.Nope...no magical healing allowed.Hhmmmm....It does in fact only specifically call out lesser restoration....however it then goes on to say "Only time can heal the constitution damage taken by way of infernal mortification."
To my mind that means no magical healing.....I wonder which it was meant to be ???
3 rounds
Does this count?
No, it says no lesser Restoration. Restoration and other methods works fine.I think there is a trait that increases natural healing from ability damage.This MIGHT be usefull...depending on how it's worded. Something that simply increases your normal healing time in general should work against this damage.
Don't suppose you remember the name of the trait ???
And if it is con damage (not drain) it should be healed by lesser restoration.Nope...no magical healing allowed.Hhmmmm....It does in fact only specifically call out lesser restoration....however it then goes on to say "Only time can heal the constitution damage taken by way of infernal mortification."
To my mind that means no magical healing.....I wonder which it was meant to be ???
That is flavor text. The only limit it specifically says is no Lesser Restoration.
That bladed scarf dancer build is pretty cool - wielding a scarf of blood is some major props
Thank you, one of these days he'll end up dying laughing from saving someone's life. My character has a perverse joy when someone is astonished by being saved by a Tiefling. This world he's in doesn't trust tieflings, though within the past 5 years the hatred has simply become distrust, so he has no trouble wandering around town anymore.
Was the feat mentioned upthread possibly Rest for the Wicked from Bastards ?
Yes that was the trait I had in mind. But I missed the total bed rest part.
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Okay, let's say you had a Feat that let you take a -1 penalty to Fortitude saves for a day to get an Arcane Pool point for the same day and gave the rest of these abilities as long as you had it (and the anti-Fiend thing all the time), but you couldn't use it two days in a row. Would you think it was good? I would. And that's what Toughness makes this Archetype (only better, because you can use it more if you really need to). So...yeah, I'd say it's good. Not the best thing ever, but there's no reason every Tiefling Magus shouldn't take it.
There are plenty of elf maguses in the world who live rather happily with -2 con and don't get a fun toy to play with.
Its really a null issue.
I admittedly hadn't looked at it that way.....
However you still end up with abilities that take two days to recover from before you can use them again....I can see getting caught in a trap where your spending more and more Con every day to use your abilities...and end up so far in the hole that you either can't use them for days...or weaken yourself so much that you end up dead.
That is flavor text. The only limit it specifically says is no Lesser Restoration.No, it says no lesser Restoration. Restoration and other methods works fine.I think there is a trait that increases natural healing from ability damage.This MIGHT be usefull...depending on how it's worded. Something that simply increases your normal healing time in general should work against this damage.
Don't suppose you remember the name of the trait ???
And if it is con damage (not drain) it should be healed by lesser restoration.Nope...no magical healing allowed.Hhmmmm....It does in fact only specifically call out lesser restoration....however it then goes on to say "Only time can heal the constitution damage taken by way of infernal mortification."
To my mind that means no magical healing.....I wonder which it was meant to be ???
I hate RAW vs RAI debates.....but at our table we tend to go RAI to avoid the munchkin effect as much as possible.
"Only time can heal the constitution damage taken by way of infernal mortification." doesn't sound like flavor text to me...it sounds like the intent is to not allow magical healing.
OK...here is a thought.
Under the alternate tiefling abilities in Blood of Fiends...ability #58
states "you heal yourself of double the normal amount of damage by resting"
Any reason that wouldn't apply to ability damage ?
Okay, let's say you had a Feat that let you take a -1 penalty to Fortitude saves for a day to get an Arcane Pool point for the same day and gave the rest of these abilities as long as you had it (and the anti-Fiend thing all the time), but you couldn't use it two days in a row. Would you think it was good? I would. And that's what Toughness makes this Archetype (only better, because you can use it more if you really need to). So...yeah, I'd say it's good. Not the best thing ever, but there's no reason every Tiefling Magus shouldn't take it.
A...no...actually I wouldn't.
I don't even think feats that allow a once per day benifit are good, and won't take them.
If a feat was only usefull every other day I wouldn't even dream of taking it.
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A...no...actually I wouldn't.
I don't even think feats that allow a once per day benifit are good, and won't take them.
If a feat was only usefull every other day I wouldn't even dream of taking it.
It's not a once per day benefit, though. It's an all-day every other day benefit. And it lets you mess with Fiend DR even on off-days.