This rather intricate setup is the armor setup I'm planning for an upcoming PFS character, provided it works the way I think it does.
Mithral causes medium armor to become light, and heavy armor to become medium, for all purposes except for proficiencies. Thus, Mithral full plate counts as medium, and a mithral armored coat will both be able to fit over the mithral full plate AND be enchanted as a piece of light armor, correct?
What I am ultimately aiming for is to have the protection and aesthetic of the Mithral full plate, but be able to use the armored coat to hold miscellanoeus enchantments, specifically the brawling enchantment that can only be put on light armor. So for example, my armor item slot will have:
+1 Mithral full plate (11500 gp)
And
+1 Brawling Mithral armored coat (8050gp)
1. And the above ensemble will net me +10 armor, +3 max dex bonus AC, -3 armor check penalty, 25% ACF and count as wearing medium armor. Correct?
2. The armored coat description reads "The only magic effects that apply are those worn on top."
. . . . . . . . . 2.a: Will I get the benefit of the +1 enhancement bonus to AC from the mithral full plate?
. . . . . . . . . 2.b: If the answer to 2.a is 'no', will I get the +1 enhancement bonus from the mithral armored coat?
. . . . . . . . . 2.c: If the answer to 2.a and 2.b are both 'no', does this mean that the above ensemble will never give me any higher than an AC of +9 regardless of the enchantments on either piece of armor?
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That's actually interesting that you bring that up.
I never noticed that item, but it seems like a possibility. The biggest problem is the magical effect clause. the +1 enhancement bonus to armor could be considered a magical effect as well and so you'd never see more than a +1. beyond the base armor.
No, they're both regarded as armor and fill he armor slot. You can only wear one at a time.
Generally yes, but:
Benefit: More cumbersome than light armor but less effective than most medium armors, the advantage of an armored coat is that a person can don it or remove it as a move action (there is no “don hastily” option for an armored coat). If worn over other armor, use the better AC bonus and worse value in all other categories; an armored coat has no effect if worn with heavy armor. The only magic effects that apply are those worn on top.
Emphasis mine. There are to my knowledge, only 2 exceptions, and only one of which is PFS-legal. Being this one.
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It works, and you do not even need the Armored Coat to be Mithral.
As lantzkev mentioned, the problem is whether enhancement bonuses to armor are considered magic effects or not. And if they do, whether the "best AC" mentioned in the armored coat's description is meant with or without enhancement bonuses.
For PFS, I would go with the worst interpretation possible. So your best AC will only ever be 9, enhancements included (ie, Full Plate with zero enhancement bonus as well as armored coat with +5 enhancement bonus).
In which case, keep the Full Plate unenchanted and put all the enchantments on the armored coat. The +1 enhancement bonus to the armored coat, while needed to further enchant it with properties, will not enhance your AC though.
So : +9 armor, +3 max dex bonus AC, -3 armor check penalty, 25% ACF and count as wearing medium armor.
But then, you could just as well get rid of the Armored Coat and enchant the Full Plate directly ;-)
I think the purpose of armour coat is to get other armor enchantment ability as a move action. Say, I'm having a set of mithral full plate that gives me +5AC and heavy fortification from enchantment, it's perfect for facing any surprise attack I will get physically. But then found an evil wizard, I can use my move action to pull out an armour coat that have +5AC enchantment with 19 spell resistance. Now it's much safer. But then if I found some fire elemental, my spell resistance won't do anything. So I drop it and get another one with elemental resistance, greater. Now I'm safer.
There is a reason why fighter should have first dip when it comes to loot division, they will need different items against different enemies. While paladin or barbarian won't have as much needs as they have their own things that can help.
How can a coat ( which needs to be flexible ) be made out of mithral ?
It could be reinforced with mithral but would that give it the property's of mithral as per the rules
How can a coat ( which needs to be flexible ) be made out of mithral ?
It could be reinforced with mithral but would that give it the property's of mithral as per the rules
The answer to your question is located in the bold text, Tony.
Armored Coat
This sturdy leather coat is reinforced with metal plates sewn into the lining.
Benefit: More cumbersome than light armor but less effective than most medium armors, the advantage of an armored coat is that a person can don it or remove it as a move action (there is no “don hastily” option for an armored coat). If worn over other armor, use the better AC bonus and worse value in all other categories; an armored coat has no effect if worn with heavy armor. The only magic effects that apply are those worn on top.
Therefore, the metal plates can be replaced with mithral and thus make it light armor.
In regards to the OP's post, I don't believe you can wear both armors and reap the rewards of both of their magical properties. If I remember correctly, according to rules (I have to double check this...) a PC can only benefit from the magical properties of their primary armor. So you couldn't get benefit from the mithral fullplate AND get the brawling ability from your armored coat. You can only benefit from the properties of your primary armor.
Again, I could be wrong, but I believe that is the case. I'll have to look through the magic items rules to see if I can find that specific rule. Otherwise, everyone would be stacking armor like this.
Now, the armored kilt seems to be a different story. Some folks think you can add an armored kilt w/ those extra abilities and it would stack with your armor's abilities because it is an "addition" to your armor as opposed to a completely different piece of armor.
No, they're both regarded as armor and fill he armor slot. You can only wear one at a time.Generally yes, but:
Benefit: More cumbersome than light armor but less effective than most medium armors, the advantage of an armored coat is that a person can don it or remove it as a move action (there is no “don hastily” option for an armored coat). If worn over other armor, use the better AC bonus and worse value in all other categories; an armored coat has no effect if worn with heavy armor. The only magic effects that apply are those worn on top.Emphasis mine. There are to my knowledge, only 2 exceptions, and only one of which is PFS-legal. Being this one.
The text you quoted explicitly reminded you. You can't double dip into armor magic bonuses.
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The purpose of making the armored coat mithral was so that it could hold the brawling property.
The text you quoted explicitly reminded you. You can't double dip into armor magic bonuses.
Aye, I guess I was firstly checking that I was reading the rules right on how mithral worked, and also wondering how the rules operated with the enhancement bonuses. If the enhancement bonus from the armored coat applied to the ensemble, or whether it would apply if both armors had the same enchancement bonus, or whether there was any other way to get the enhancement bonus to AC.
in order to be mithral armour needs to be primarily made of metal. i dont think mithril armoured coat is possible.
in order to be mithral armour needs to be primarily made of metal. i dont think mithril armoured coat is possible.
The portion of the coat that gives it the armor bonus is the metal plates sewn into the coat, otherwise it's just a coat without any AC bonus. Therefore I see replacing the standard steel/iron plates in the coat with mithral plates as reasonable.
It's been confirmed that you can make mithral studded leather, and an armored coat looks like it has more metal than studded leather does.
You may have to provide that confirmation to a skeptical PFS DM. What will you point him/her to ? (I'm not disputing you, I'm just seeking a concise FAQ or Blog Post or something).
well since pathfinder does not have Brigadine armor specifically, I kind of consider armored coats as the nearest to the western equivalent, (including jack of plates).
that being said there is quite a bit of metal involved in the type, with the 2 layers of leather being generally softer and more pliant than boiled leather..so most of the protection would stem from the plates, and not the material.
I use to make many kinds of period armors, all the way up to plate/chain, and short of articulated plate, but brig was always my favorite for day to day wear, very comfortable, other than weight.
So mithral would indeed make the "armored coat" a very improved armor.
Just my 2 coppers.
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It's been confirmed that you can make mithral studded leather, and an armored coat looks like it has more metal than studded leather does.You may have to provide that confirmation to a skeptical PFS DM. What will you point him/her to ? (I'm not disputing you, I'm just seeking a concise FAQ or Blog Post or something).
Hmm...I am having difficulty finding it, so I may have to hold off on that argument. I may have found an alternative, though.
Perhaps it will be worthwhile to ask on the PFS-specific boards how enchanted silken ceremonial armor will interact with enchanted full plate armor. Anyone know of any prior guidance on this subject?
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PFS character
+1 Mithral full plate (11500 gp)
And
+1 Brawling Mithral armored coat (8050gp)
an armored coat has no effect if worn with heavy armor
If worn over Mithril full plate the +1 brawling armored coat shuts off and doesn't provide anything.
If worn over +5 mithril breastplate, you get only the +1 brawling armored coat effects and none of the magic of the +5 mithril breastplate but you do get the acp of the breastplate.
That is how I read the RAW and how I also think the RAI is supposed to work, and how I'd run it at the PFS tables I run.
Plus I also don't think you can make a Mithril armored coat.
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James, the point of the mithral full plate was to make it medium armor.
Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor.
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Upon consideration, it occurred to me that since I only have 1 "armor" magic item slot, I can only ever get the magical enchantments from 1 set of armor, even if I wear 2 sets of armor one over the other. To that extent, the extra wording on the armored coat is somewhat superfluous.
I'm guessing this means that the best way to achieve what I am aiming for is to get masterwork mithral full plate, and then wear enchanted silken ceremonial armor under that to get the enchantments I am seeking. But my armor bonus will be permanently capped at +9?
But my armor bonus will be permanently capped at +9?
Unless you enhance the primary armor the max armor bonus you would get with Full Plate is +9. By enhance I mean any thing between +1 to +5 magical enhancement.
It's been confirmed that you can make mithral studded leather, and an armored coat looks like it has more metal than studded leather does.You may have to provide that confirmation to a skeptical PFS DM. What will you point him/her to ? (I'm not disputing you, I'm just seeking a concise FAQ or Blog Post or something).
I found it! Gamemastery guide table 5-3.
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How can a coat ( which needs to be flexible ) be made out of mithral ?
It could be reinforced with mithral but would that give it the property's of mithral as per the rules
The answer to your question is located in the bold text, Tony.
Armored Coat
This sturdy leather coat is reinforced with metal plates sewn into the lining.
Benefit: More cumbersome than light armor but less effective than most medium armors, the advantage of an armored coat is that a person can don it or remove it as a move action (there is no “don hastily” option for an armored coat). If worn over other armor, use the better AC bonus and worse value in all other categories; an armored coat has no effect if worn with heavy armor. The only magic effects that apply are those worn on top.
Therefore, the metal plates can be replaced with mithral and thus make it light armor.
The reply to your reply is in the mithral rules:
Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral.
"is reinforced " isn't the same as "it is primarily made of".
I found it! Gamemastery guide table 5-3.It's been confirmed that you can make mithral studded leather, and an armored coat looks like it has more metal than studded leather does.You may have to provide that confirmation to a skeptical PFS DM. What will you point him/her to ? (I'm not disputing you, I'm just seeking a concise FAQ or Blog Post or something).
Name of the table? Searching 5-3 don't work.
Tables 5-3 and 5-6 on pages 118 and 119 of the gamemastery guide. It's a table for rolling random armour loot.
Table 5–3: Random Armor
d% Armor1 Price Special Materials2
1–5 Padded armor 155 gp —
6–13 Leather armor 160 gp —
14–22 Studded leather armor 175 gp Metals
23–30 Chain shirt 250 gp Metals
31–38 Hide armor 165 gp Dragonhide
39–46 Scale mail 200 gp Metals
47–54 Chainmail 300 gp Metals
55–62 Breastplate 350 gp Dragonhide, metals
63–70 Splint mail 350 gp Metals
71–78 Banded mail 400 gp Dragonhide, metals
79–86 Half-plate 750 gp Dragonhide, metals
87–94 Full plate 1,650 gp Dragonhide, metals
95–97 Armor with armor spikes; roll again for armor type +50 gp —
98–100 Armor with locked gauntlet; roll again for armor type +8 gp —
Table 5–6: Armor Special Materials
Category1 Normal Adamantine2 Dragonhide3 Mithral4
Dragonhide 01–90 — 91–100 —
Dragonhide, metals 01–90 91–94 95–98 99–100
Metals 01–90 91–97 — 98–100
Basically, if you roll a 14-22 for table 5-3 and then a 98-100 for table 5-6, you would get a set of mithral studded leather armor.
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Gamemastery Guide page 118-119. Studded leather lists metals as special materials. When you go to the special material table on the next page, metals lists mithral as an option. Mithral Studded Leather is possible.
Interestingly, the table excludes the possibility of the leather-component of the studded leather being enhanced (i.e. no dragon-hide studded leather), thus putting it squarely in the 'metal armor' category. By comparison, I'd say it's not at all a stretch to suggest that an armored coat is also in the 'metal armor' category. At the end of the day, what matters appears to be what the parts that protect you are made of.
Even more interestingly, this might also mean that a haramaki can be made of adamantine since it would be the 'chainmail or articulated plates' in the silken sash that do the protecting...
Table 5-3 is the Random Armor table from chapter 5 page 118.
Table 5–3: Random Armor
d% Armor1 Price Special Materials2
1–5 Padded armor 155 gp —
6–13 Leather armor 160 gp —
14–22 Studded 175 gp Metals
leather armor
23–30 Chain shirt 250 gp Metals
31–38 Hide armor 165 gp Dragonhide
39–46 Scale mail 200 gp Metals
47–54 Chainmail 300 gp Metals
55–62 Breastplate 350 gp Dragonhide, metals
63–70 Splint mail 350 gp Metals
71–78 Banded mail 400 gp Dragonhide, metals
79–86 Half-plate 750 gp Dragonhide, metals
87–94 Full plate 1,650 gp Dragonhide, metals
95–97 Armor with armor +50 gp —
spikes; roll again for armor type
98–100 Armor with locked gauntlet; +8 gp —
roll again for armor type
1 For magic armor, consult Table 5–8: Magic Armor and Shields.
2 Consult Table 5–6: Armor Special Materials.
If you had a result of 14-22, that's Studded Leather armor and the Special Materials column says "Metal" and the footnote refers you to table 5-6.
I'm still not getting what this is supposed to accomplish. Full plate doesn't get lighter with the application of an armored coat, beig that in mithril, adamantium, or hypoteticall antigravity stones.
And, wheter the full plate is magically enhanced or not, once again if you read carefully
Used for ceremonial displays or occasionally worn (albeit with no additional benefit) over heavier armor, these robes consist of several layers of cloth and an outer layer of silk intricately woven with gold brocade designs and covered with metal studs.
It was stated in the OP what he is trying to accomplish. He wants to have two different magic item special abilities that he can switch between whenever he needs to.
Benefit: More cumbersome than light armor but less effective than most medium armors, the advantage of an armored coat is that a person can don it or remove it as a move action (there is no “don hastily” option for an armored coat). If worn over other armor, use the better AC bonus and worse value in all other categories; an armored coat has no effect if worn with heavy armor. The only magic effects that apply are those worn on top.
No, they're both regarded as armor and fill he armor slot. You can only wear one at a time.There are rules about stacking multiple pieces of armor. As it says, whatever gives the bigger armor bonus totally suppresses the lesser item's powers and benefits. You still wind up with the greater weight encumbering you, and whatever other penalties the GM may deem appropriate for your pileup.
In other words, it's a bad idea that gives you no benefits, and problems.
What you want for your purposes would be a magic item that would let you switch out physically one armor and exchange it for the second.
Really? Where are these "rules"? I've only ever seen a similar rule specifically for bracers of armor interacting with normal armor, but nothing about "stacking multiple pieces of armor".
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Really? Where are these "rules"? I've only ever seen a similar rule specifically for bracers of armor interacting with normal armor, but nothing about "stacking multiple pieces of armor".No, they're both regarded as armor and fill he armor slot. You can only wear one at a time.There are rules about stacking multiple pieces of armor. As it says, whatever gives the bigger armor bonus totally suppresses the lesser item's powers and benefits. You still wind up with the greater weight encumbering you, and whatever other penalties the GM may deem appropriate for your pileup.
In other words, it's a bad idea that gives you no benefits, and problems.
What you want for your purposes would be a magic item that would let you switch out physically one armor and exchange it for the second.
Beside that, in the only part of the rules that speak on how you go around mixing different armors:
If a character is wearing pieces of separately created or enchanted armor, the armor only takes the benefits provided by the masterwork quality and the magic of the most protective piece—typically the torso armor piece. If a character does not wear a torso armor piece, the most protective piece is the leg armor piece (the second most protective category of armor pieces), followed by the arm armor piece (the third most protective category).
The armored coat should protect less than a complete full plate, so it should be the lesser piece.
Beside that, the armored coat has its own rules:
If worn over other armor, use the better AC bonus and worse value in all other categories; an armored coat has no effect if worn with heavy armor. The only magic effects that apply are those worn on top.
It is worn over other kinds of armor and supersede those armor magical effects, suppressing them.
Piecemeal armor rules appear in the chapter titled 'variant rules'. I'd be very hesitant about relying on them for a discussion about mainstream rules for the same reason I don't suggest that regular full plate mail provides DR.
I take your point about the armored coat, though.
I don't think armor coat would work with normal full plate as I believe it simply has no effect as wrote for the item "armored coat has no effect if worn with heavy armor." So that means the best armor one can wear with armor coat is an mithral full plate because it consider as medium armor with +9 base AC.
You are ignoring the very next sentence after that. "The only magic effects that apply are those worn on top". The full plate would be suppressed while the armored coat is worn and the armored coat's magic effect will apply. Then when you take off the armored coat, the full plate's effect will become active again.
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I'd also point out that mithral doesn't make the armor lighter, it treats the armor lighter for movement and most cases. You still need the proficiency.
Small issue, but might be important.
(Amusingly it would be worth it to have a mithral coat, just for the "cool duster" effect.
I suspect part of the OP's question was whether mithril medium armour would count as light armour for the purpose of enchantments that can only be put on light armour. By my reading, it does.
Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor.
But I'm not enchanting the assemblage as a whole. Only the mithral armored coat (light armor) will be enchanted, and worn over the non-magical mithril full plate.
As for the armor, the full plate is actually the non-negotiable part of the concept, for thematic reasons. The brawling property is very tasty gravy if I can get it.
You didn’t say, but if you are getting the brawling enchantment, that suggests you are going to take levels in Monk. You know you lose Evasion if you wear medium armor.
Eh, non-monks are better unarmed in bonuses when tallied up, monks just have better dice rolling (they can't use Brawling).
Shadowcat:
Hmm...that seems a little vague. Are you suggesting that the 'brawling' property on a mithril armored coat simply shuts off if it is worn over medium or heavy armor?
I think I've got my answer then. Non-magical masterwork mithral full plate, and then wearing an enchanted mithral armored coat over should get me where I want to go, getting the function of the mithral full plate armour and the enchantments (less the enhancement bonuses) of the mithral armored coat (mainly brawling).