.@Vic Wertz & Other Paizo Staff working on this Project
Any thoughts about Kickstarting this project so that It can rise from the grave?
I for one am using Roll20.net atm and though good, we have been waiting for Paizo Gamespace to come out of the woodwork for several years now. We would like to switch over to it full time.
Goblinworks did it for the Pathfinder Online project twice, & both went very well. I am sure if the rewards were good, you would get the funding you need to push this out the gate.
I agree with Pexx, in that a KS campaign could help get Gamespace out the door and in player's hands.
I suspect it isnt funding that's the problem. It's more likely human resources - and Paizo have traditionally had a cautious approach about expanding the size of the company too rapidly (I seem to remember a "never more than fifty employees" post from Vic once, though that was early days and has probably been surpassed by now).
What Steve said.
Really, the problem most likely is that the technical realities of a project like this aren't simple. This isn't supposed to be Roll20, or HeroLab, or some digital version of the Adventure Path product line. It's supposed to be a combination of all of that, at more. It's got to have blog features, and social components that allow full online play, with storing campaign data. It's likely intended to have special features specifically for Society play.
In short, this is a weird complex product that is really five or six products, all wrapped up in one. Only the integration matters. Oh, and now... you have to write it all to be platform-independent. Which isn't as simple saying "hey, it's Java time". Sorry, but that's not the answer because half of the time a product is written for Java runtimes, it becomes JRE-dependent, and when you get a new version of Java on your computer, Oracle has screwed the pooch by changing requirements. .NET? Sorry, no, Windows-only. Basically however you try to do this, there's a decent possibility that one browser or another will fail to render it properly.
There are massive technical hurdles, as well as the simple logistical hurdles. Honestly, I expect Paizo acquired enough technical familiarity at the top of the food-chain, and have realized this is a massive undertaking. And probably not worth the outlay.
So wait until things change. That's what I'd do, were I in Lisa and Vic's shoes. Well, that and try to figure out why I suddenly had four legs.
I suspect it isnt funding that's the problem. It's more likely human resources - and Paizo have traditionally had a cautious approach about expanding the size of the company too rapidly (I seem to remember a "never more than fifty employees" post from Vic once, though that was early days and has probably been surpassed by now).
Indeed, this isn't a "throw money at it," project. They need people who are willing and able to commit to long term project goals with their company; and part of that means moving to Seattle. Finding extraordinary people who are available and willing to relocate can be time consuming and I for one applaud Lisa and Vic for demanding excellence over progress in this matter.
[tounge-in-cheek]Although, I'm really tired of waiting for it, could some one toss me a beta invite?[/tounge-in-cheek]
Also, from what I heard and remember after the Pathfinder Online Kickstarters, Lisa Stevens doesn't want to do any more Kickstarter-projects.
Now that the Goblin Works Kickstarter has succeeded, could we plan another Kickstarter to add a Roguelike Mode to the Paizo VTT?No more Kickstarters! Gack!
Lisa
Also, while I can understand the community atmosphere one might want to promote within, is it really necessary to have a re-location to Seattle as a 'prime requisite' if you will of working on Gamespace? There are many endeavours out there (including my own) in which the staff are spread out all over the place in North America and even into the U.K.
Gamespace is, after all, a project that is aimed more or less at the world community (IE allowing for players in different locales to sit and play at the same table).
You're not wrong, but centralization makes sense in this case. Gamespace isn't a product that makes a lot of sense in a relatively autonomous development regime. It links a lot of different aspects from raw rules (character generation) to campaign management (journals, treasure division) to online play (virtual tabletop) to adventure porting (making AP/module content assets available via the previous modules).
The developer involved needs to be in more or less constant communication and supervision with the team that manages the rules and adventure content. While it could absolutely be done via VoIP or video conference, it really makes most sense to do where you can have a more intimate contact.
This isn't "write me a report module for CRM". It's not even "make a video game", where once a creative framework is specified, autonomy makes sense.
How large is the working group, does anyone know?
Per Vic, this is back-burnered. That would strongly imply a working group of zero.
Has subcontracting (aka Goblinworks for the MMO) ever been considered? It beats your too much staff problem, brings in an entity with the right amount of people for the job with the right expertise to do it and they would all be in their own shop (IE under proper supervision)
I would really suggest you go take a look at d20pro and roll20 and just let gamespace fall into the back your memory. That way, someday when (if) it becomes a real thing you can be happily surprised.
Has subcontracting (aka Goblinworks for the MMO) ever been considered? It beats your too much staff problem, brings in an entity with the right amount of people for the job with the right expertise to do it and they would all be in their own shop (IE under proper supervision)
I'm sure that it was. The problem - again - isn't the easy stuff. Lisa and Vic are bright people. They can manage the obvious. The problem is the hard stuff: actually making this sort of obnoxiously complex bit of software.
|
no, it will make it more system agnostic and customizable. less reliance on built in coding for a specific system and more generic (which was my second biggest complaint behind the poor interface).
here's a link to their kickstarter for Unlimited from last year: d20Pro Unlimited
What Steve said.
Really, the problem most likely is that the technical realities of a project like this aren't simple. This isn't supposed to be Roll20, or HeroLab, or some digital version of the Adventure Path product line. It's supposed to be a combination of all of that, at more. It's got to have blog features, and social components that allow full online play, with storing campaign data. It's likely intended to have special features specifically for Society play.
In short, this is a weird complex product that is really five or six products, all wrapped up in one. Only the integration matters. Oh, and now... you have to write it all to be platform-independent. Which isn't as simple saying "hey, it's Java time". Sorry, but that's not the answer because half of the time a product is written for Java runtimes, it becomes JRE-dependent, and when you get a new version of Java on your computer, Oracle has screwed the pooch by changing requirements. .NET? Sorry, no, Windows-only. Basically however you try to do this, there's a decent possibility that one browser or another will fail to render it properly.
There are massive technical hurdles, as well as the simple logistical hurdles. Honestly, I expect Paizo acquired enough technical familiarity at the top of the food-chain, and have realized this is a massive undertaking. And probably not worth the outlay.
So wait until things change. That's what I'd do, were I in Lisa and Vic's shoes. Well, that and try to figure out why I suddenly had four legs.
I think you are on the money, especially with regard to scope of the project. In fact, if it is any less than what you mention, might as well stay with the perfectly viable VTTs out there.
Just a quick thought, I am finding lately that as long as my VTT (at this time it is Maptool) is workable/stable, the most crucial element is the macro framework being used. I have found over the last couple years that upgrades to Maptool matter to me less and less compared to upgrades to the macro framework I use.
Check out tabletopconnect.com hands down will be better than roll20 (flat boring 2d maps) and anything paizo might have put out. It's a 3d vtt that is being developed now.
That is something I hadn't considered. The design goals for this project are 2 years out of date. Even if huge progress were made in the very near future (both unlikely) it would still be a platform that was behind the curve.
|
|
It's available for use now from a kickstarter/backer kit so people are using it kind of in an Alpha state for feedback. The map creation is super easy. Take a PDF of a map in an adventure, import and scale the map and start making walls and floors. I did the Castle Cragmaw from Lost Mines of Phandelver in about 1 hour. You can check out some of the maps/buildings people have created as well.
Agreed - Behind his projected curve but ahead of Paizo's Gamespace and better than anything out there now already.
Game Space Beta Tester
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The 3D maps don't work for my current use case. We project maps in our face-to-face games and use miniatures. I am mostly just using the fog of war, dynamic lighting, and area effects. I have no interest in macros, character sheets, or dice rolling as we do all that in the physical world.
TableTopConnect does look pretty cool and would allow you to do some interesting things (even face to face) ... would like to play with it. For a virtual game it looks like it would be very cool.
I think a problem one would have with this is trying to recreate everything you'd find in a purchased map. You would have to make a great deal of alterations to make it work (similar to using something like Dwarven Forge ... easy to create an awesome dungeon from scratch, but tough to match something designed on paper.)
I think BigDTBone was talking about the design goals for Paizo's Gamespace.
Well it has been over a month since I asked my question/suggested an idea to revitalize the project. I'm assuming the staff doesn't care enough to respond. Which is understandable given the current state of this project. I do however thank the players for responding as I have enjoyed reading your replies. I will just assume the project is officially dead. Thank you for your time ladies and germs.
I am... looking forward to this. Very. Much. So.
|
I can see great potential for PFS, especially for those who have no lodge in their area, and frankly I really want Paizo to succeed in this (god knows that I am still salty after the stunt WotC pulled with 4.Edition and their VTT).
Paizo is in a great position to make this work, they have plenty of art assets and scenarios that make good use of them.
I can see great potential for PFS, especially for those who have no lodge in their area, and frankly I really want Paizo to succeed in this (god knows that I am still salty after the stunt WotC pulled with 4.Edition and their VTT).
Paizo is in a great position to make this work, they have plenty of art assets and scenarios that make good use of them.
You don't know the first thing about salty!
|
|
You don't know the first thing about salty!I can see great potential for PFS, especially for those who have no lodge in their area, and frankly I really want Paizo to succeed in this (god knows that I am still salty after the stunt WotC pulled with 4.Edition and their VTT).
Paizo is in a great position to make this work, they have plenty of art assets and scenarios that make good use of them.
I have played Wow for years as a raid leader, I played Lol, I play Heroes of the Storm, and I argue with people of over the internet.
In real life, I have met scumbags of a level you would not believe, I know salt.Please just don't remind me about the existence of opera houses and angels I still get twitches whenever I hear " All alone the Watchtower".
Also salt is like super bad for your circuits. ^^
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Also salt is like super bad for your circuits. ^^
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
This reminds me of buying the 3.0 Player's Handbook in 2000, and in the back was a CD with a character generator. And how it was going to be the first step to bringing D&D into the digital world and how everything was going to be huge and.
Yeah, still waiting on that project.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I was hoping to get a update since it is Paizocon this weekend. Even if all you say is: "This project is now sitting next to the Ark of the Covenant in a US gov. warehouse and will remain there until the heat death of the universe." That's better than deafening silence.
SM
I think that if there was anything to update it would already be updated. Ie, there is no active development on this project, no staff are devoting resources to this project, there is no set date to change the status of this project, on a scale from [Extreme Priority! Missed Deadline!] to [Burried under a T-Rex Turd in Jacobs' office] this project falls somewhere in between [Vanity means "you never say die"] and [Squirrel!]
