Did you realize that the film actually fails the Bechdel Test?
1 - At least two named female characters - Natasha Romanoff and Maria Hill. (Pass)
2 - That talk to each other. (Questionable. They are part of a larger conversation in the bunker.)
3 - About something other then a man. (Fail. While they briefly discuss balistics, that part is so short that it is really about Nick Fury.)
Given the strong, smart, capable women in the film, I was shocked that it actually failed in this measure.
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Seldom is the Bechdel Test irrelevant. Here it is. We saw plenty of strong, intelligent female characters express themselves well without fawning over a man. Failed by the letter of the law, but passed by its spirit.Did you realize that the film actually fails the Bechdel Test?
1 - At least two named female characters - Natasha Romanoff and Maria Hill. (Pass)
2 - That talk to each other. (Questionable. They are part of a larger conversation in the bunker.)
3 - About something other then a man. (Fail. While they briefly discuss balistics, that part is so short that it is really about Nick Fury.)Given the strong, smart, capable women in the film, I was shocked that it actually failed in this measure.
Yep. You also forgot the character played by the girl who plays Robin in How I met your Mother, the politician woman from the shield conference chamber, and Peggy.
Also, I'm pretty sure SOME of the women talked with each other during the movie, and I'm pretty darn sure it wasn't about men. The Bachdel test is not about, "if you don't pass this test your movie is sexist", it's just a decent way to show that sexist trends exist. A movie like Captain America obviously does fine with it's presentation of women and their inclusion.
Seldom is the Bechdel Test irrelevant. Here it is. We saw plenty of strong, intelligent female characters express themselves well without fawning over a man. Failed by the letter of the law, but passed by its spirit.Did you realize that the film actually fails the Bechdel Test?
1 - At least two named female characters - Natasha Romanoff and Maria Hill. (Pass)
2 - That talk to each other. (Questionable. They are part of a larger conversation in the bunker.)
3 - About something other then a man. (Fail. While they briefly discuss balistics, that part is so short that it is really about Nick Fury.)Given the strong, smart, capable women in the film, I was shocked that it actually failed in this measure.
Yep. You also forgot the character played by the girl who plays Robin in How I met your Mother, the politician woman from the shield conference chamber, and Peggy.
Also, I'm pretty sure SOME of the women talked with each other during the movie, and I'm pretty darn sure it wasn't about men. The Bachdel test is not about, "if you don't pass this test your movie is sexist", it's just a decent way to show that sexist trends exist. A movie like Captain America obviously does fine with it's presentation of women and their inclusion.
I agree with your post, quick correction though. Lord Fyre didn't forget about Robin from How I Met Your Mother. The actress who plays Robin is Cobie Smulders, a.k.a. Maria Hill in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
Ah, for some reason I thought Maria was the blond neighbor lady.
Sharon Carter was a relatively minor character.
So, overall I really liked the movie, but did anyone else have an issue with the fact that all of the intelligence they had came from a bad guy deciding he would tell Captain A his evil plot just before he was killed?
I hate when plot critical elements rely on intelligent characters being insanely dumb, like villains gloating.
When you think about it, though, how else was he supposed to keep them occupied long enough for them to get captured or beaten? Share stock quotes?
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Given the strong, smart, capable women in the film, I was shocked that it actually failed in this measure.
Given that strong, smart, capable women are in this film and and it doesn't pass the test I think that says more about the test than the movie.
I don't really have a problem with it. Cerebral villains like Zola often have a need to not only prove they are smarter than everyone else, but to be acknowledged as such, especially by those who have humbled them in the past.When you think about it, though, how else was he supposed to keep them occupied long enough for them to get captured or beaten? Share stock quotes?So, overall I really liked the movie, but did anyone else have an issue with the fact that all of the intelligence they had came from a bad guy deciding he would tell Captain A his evil plot just before he was killed?
I hate when plot critical elements rely on intelligent characters being insanely dumb, like villains gloating.
My question is, did Zola know he was going to get nuked by the massive Shield air strike? He must of had a contingency for that...wink,wink.
Pierce made a comment that they lost Zola, so they definitely thought/assumed he would be destroyed in the bombing. I can't believe Zola would stall Cap and Widow just to sacrifice himself.
Given that strong, smart, capable women are in this film and and it doesn't pass the test I think that says more about the test than the movie.
Given the strong, smart, capable women in the film, I was shocked that it actually failed in this measure.
Well, it is from an old comic strip, after all. It was meant to feed a joke not become a consistent, reliable means of feminist analysis.
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What blows my mind:
Half the folks in the theater getting up and leaving as soon as the credits start rolling... (i.e.: not waiting for the extra-scenes)
It kills me every time. lol
Ultradan
Yes, they have written off the Asgardians as beings from another dimension with different body density, strength, etc. i.e. explained by tech/science.
Although Loki / Enchantress / Lorelei could definitely have sorcery. Actually MAoS had Sif confirm that Lorelei uses sorcery...
They establish in Thor that Asgardian science and magic are one and the same.
It makes it science that is capable of the scientifically impossible, aka magic.
I'm mildly blind posting here, but from a collection of rumors and speculation articles...
Guardians of the Galaxy is supposed to tie into Avengers 3, and since they're collecting infinity stones, it's possible Thanos, who appeared at the end of Avengers 1's credits, is going to appear in 3 or even later depending on how far they plan on going.
Now I just need to hold out hope that Fox releases its ownership of Fantastic 4, Spider-man and X-men so Disney can add them into the cross overs!
Now I just need to hold out hope that Fox releases its ownership of Fantastic 4, Spider-man and X-men so Disney can add them into the cross overs!
Don't hold your breath. I predict that the latter two are going to make their respective companies bundles of money. FF...not so much.
Now I just need to hold out hope that Fox releases its ownership of Fantastic 4, Spider-man and X-men so Disney can add them into the cross overs!Don't hold your breath. I predict that the latter two are going to make their respective companies bundles of money. FF...not so much.
They're actually rebooting Fantastic 4, all though from what I've heard, even less respect for the source material than before...
Sorry for the derail, I actually love this movie, this is the first time Falcon has actually been cool. The cast was great and the OP hit some many good points I agree on. I'm really excited to see how they build on the plot points left over.
They establish in Thor that Asgardian science and magic are one and the same.Yes, they have written off the Asgardians as beings from another dimension with different body density, strength, etc. i.e. explained by tech/science.
Although Loki / Enchantress / Lorelei could definitely have sorcery. Actually MAoS had Sif confirm that Lorelei uses sorcery...
They did? I must have missed that. Though I remember an awful lot of people online insisting the Asgardians have always been super high-tech aliens.
Now, they might have established that some kinds of Asgardian magic are detectable by scientific equipment, but that's not quite the same thing.
What does it even mean to say that Odin's powers (or Loki's) are scientific? Or Mjolnir's for that matter.
Well, in Thor they did have a conversation where Jane saw Asguardian equipment and then asked if it was <insert random technobable here>, the Asguardian saying no, Jane asking if it did x, the Asguardian replying yes, and then Jane asserting they were the same thing to the displeasure of the Asguardian.
Now I just need to hold out hope that Fox releases its ownership of Fantastic 4, Spider-man and X-men so Disney can add them into the cross overs!Don't hold your breath. I predict that the latter two are going to make their respective companies bundles of money. FF...not so much.They're actually rebooting Fantastic 4, all though from what I've heard, even less respect for the source material than before...
Sorry for the derail, I actually love this movie, this is the first time Falcon has actually been cool. The cast was great and the OP hit some many good points I agree on. I'm really excited to see how they build on the plot points left over.
Marvel is never ever getting X-men back, or at least they won't until Super heroes are no longer profitable. Which is kind of the same thing
Sony has also said they will never ever sell Spiderman, although my understanding is that Sony Pictures has been having some financial difficulties, So I suppose Disney just up and BUYING Sony isn't impossible, and presumably they would hand over Spiderman rights to Marvel.
Fantastic Four (and Namor..wtf) are pretty much the only series I could imagine might get sold back, and that probably depends on if the next movie is a failure or not.
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Now I just need to hold out hope that Fox releases its ownership of Fantastic 4, Spider-man and X-men so Disney can add them into the cross overs!Don't hold your breath. I predict that the latter two are going to make their respective companies bundles of money. FF...not so much.They're actually rebooting Fantastic 4, all though from what I've heard, even less respect for the source material than before...
Sorry for the derail, I actually love this movie, this is the first time Falcon has actually been cool. The cast was great and the OP hit some many good points I agree on. I'm really excited to see how they build on the plot points left over.
Marvel is never ever getting X-men back, or at least they won't until Super heroes are no longer profitable. Which is kind of the same thing
Sony has also said they will never ever sell Spiderman, although my understanding is that Sony Pictures has been having some financial difficulties, So I suppose Disney just up and BUYING Sony isn't impossible, and presumably they would hand over Spiderman rights to Marvel.
Fantastic Four (and Namor..wtf) are pretty much the only series I could imagine might get sold back, and that probably depends on if the next movie is a failure or not.
Personally, F4 is the one I would most like seeing added to the movie universe continuity. Mutants cause a problem if they try to keep continuity as you have old mutants who have been public for years added to a universe that to this point has shown very little knowledge of their existence. Spiderman doesn't have any issues, but he is doing well over in his own world.
It makes it science that is capable of the scientifically impossible, aka magic.That doesn't work for me. The gods should not have powers that can be codified and explained
They aren't gods.
It also has nothing to do with Clarke, their technology is based in magic. Human technology is based in the laws of the physical world.
One thing I don't understand and kinda too tired mto look up right now, but how does Marvel, which has been publishing Spider-man for decades, not have the movie right? Did they originally sell-off some of their best super-heroes in the hope that someone would make a decent movie?
So now they are dredging the b-heroes and were totally lucky that iron Man kicked ass and proved a, they could make their own movies, and B. yjere movies were superior in most respects to what had gone before?
Hell, Spiderman under Marvel should kick ass. Not that i think the movies already done are bad..but based on CAP 2, can you imagine what could be done.
Hell, based on CAP 2 I want to see The Nova Corps, The micronaughts and maybe even Rom Spaceknight!
Yeah...back before they got their own studio to make movies, they sold off a ton of rights. A lot of them have clauses where basically if a movie isn't done with the property in X-amount of time, they revert back, which happened with the hulk and I think a few other properties. They have also bought back a few.
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They aren't gods.In the comics, they are.
But we aren't talking about the comics. Of course the fact that they're called gods in the comics is a bit arbitrary as there isn't much that sets them apart from other races of super power beings other than seniority.
It also has nothing to do with Clarke...You take things a little too literally.
Better than taking things too figuratively, I suppose.
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One thing I don't understand and kinda too tired mto look up right now, but how does Marvel, which has been publishing Spider-man for decades, not have the movie right? Did they originally sell-off some of their best super-heroes in the hope that someone would make a decent movie?
So now they are dredging the b-heroes and were totally lucky that iron Man kicked ass and proved a, they could make their own movies, and B. yjere movies were superior in most respects to what had gone before?
Hell, Spiderman under Marvel should kick ass. Not that i think the movies already done are bad..but based on CAP 2, can you imagine what could be done.
Hell, based on CAP 2 I want to see The Nova Corps, The micronaughts and maybe even Rom Spaceknight!
That's pretty much exactly what happened.
Marvel Films is a pretty new baby. Iron Man was their first venture. Before that they sold the rights to the characters to the production companies that wanted them.
The older contracts (spiderman, x-men, fantastic four, daredevil, punisher, ghost rider and a few others) had a stipulation that as long as the studios who bought the rights were making movies with those characters, no other studios could use those characters in other movies. When Marvel decided to make it's own films it could only make them with characters that weren't licensed.
Basically as long as other studios keeps making Spideman or X-men movies, those characters will never revert back to Marvel. That's why we're getting a Fantastic Four reboot even though the last FF movie bombed hard. The studios don't want Marvel making a Fantastic Four movie because it might compete with one of the other studio's films.
Marvel movies have all been blockbusters. None of them have done badly. Every time Marvel puts out a movie the other studios have to adjust their release calendars not to compete (unless they have a guaranteed seller, and even then, they'll make more if they don't try to go head to head with a marvel movie).
That means it's worth it to a studio to drop 50 million dollars on a s&*&ty reboot of a franchise no one really cares about. It doesn't even matter if it barely breaks even or loses money. It's worth it to make the movie anyway just to keep Marvel from getting it back.
The only way Marvel will ever get those characters back is if they pay obscene amounts of money for them, or if no one goes to see something like the FF reboot and it bombs so hard that the losses are considered awful enough that they would never consider making another one.
Guardians of the Galaxy is supposed to tie into Avengers 3, and since they're collecting infinity stones, it's possible Thanos, who appeared at the end of Avengers 1's credits, is going to appear in 3 or even later depending on how far they plan on going.
Or even sooner.
I'm still of a mind that Sony, Fox, and Marvel/Disney are going to do a crossover for Avengers 3 or later. I truly believe the studios would realize that "loaning" there characters for a movie like Avengers 3 would be boatloads more cash for everyone.
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ROM the Spaceknight no longer belongs to Marvel, they don't even have the rights to use him in comics.
Thor, Hercules, the Skyfathers, etc are sometimes refered to as gods, and just as often considered to "just" be extremely powerful alien races who humans worshiped as gods long ago. It depends on the writer and the story. Both equally valid in regards to the.comic versions. The movies seem to have decided on the later interpretation.
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X-Men continuity is enough of a tangled knot all unto itself, even if Marvel were to reaquire the rights, I'd prefer to keep of mostly seperate. Spidey is the character I've followed most since I.was a little kid, and he's just not used best on a large team...sorry Avengers fans. He's best solo or teamed with one or two other heroes.
The F4, I'd love to see go back to Marvel. Not so much for the team itself, I couldn't care less about them, but aot of the cosmic entities are tied into their franchise. And of course...DOOM. This Guy is often used all over Marvel...even Luke Cage had one of his early adventures fighting Doom. (Where we learned that Reed never came up with the strategy of getting Thing to punch him repeatedly in the same spot. Some genius.)
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I think the last time someone drew the summers family tree on paper it summoned cuthulu.
X-Men continuity is enough of a tangled knot all unto itself, even if Marvel were to reaquire the rights, I'd prefer to keep of mostly seperate. Spidey is the character I've followed most since I.was a little kid, and he's just not used best on a large team...sorry Avengers fans. He's best solo or teamed with one or two other heroes.
The F4, I'd love to see go back to Marvel. Not so much for the team itself, I couldn't care less about them, but aot of the cosmic entities are tied into their franchise. And of course...DOOM. This Guy is often used all over Marvel...even Luke Cage had one of his early adventures fighting Doom. (Where we learned that Reed never came up with the strategy of getting Thing to punch him repeatedly in the same spot. Some genius.)
I just want an X-men Second Coming storyline. Maybe also Utopia, but that's never going to happen.
I suspect those licenses probably have a fixed lifetime maybe 20 years or so, unless they somehow made a deal for a perpetual license.
They're probably not limited in that way unless the studio with the franchise license leaves the characters idle. In other words, my bet is that as long as Fox is making X-Men movies, the license is theirs. Once they stop, then I'd bet the rights would be lost to them after a fixed period of time.
I'm still of a mind that Sony, Fox, and Marvel/Disney are going to do a crossover for Avengers 3 or later. I truly believe the studios would realize that "loaning" there characters for a movie like Avengers 3 would be boatloads more cash for everyone.
Sony has apparently been pretty open with the idea of sharing elements...IIRC a building with Oscorp on it was suppose to be in Avengers, but got cut.
The big problem though is the whole cost sharing for a larger crossover. That's a nightmare to work out, and apparently a major reason why we haven't gotten a sequel to "Who framed Roger Rabbit". I would also imagine that Marvel, since it's trying to do a consistent shared universe continuity, might be a bit loath to cross over characters who they have limited rights on, and might have to ignore the existence of later.
The F4, I'd love to see go back to Marvel. Not so much for the team itself, I couldn't care less about them, but aot of the cosmic entities are tied into their franchise. And of course...DOOM. This Guy is often used all over Marvel...even Luke Cage had one of his early adventures fighting Doom. (Where we learned that Reed never came up with the strategy of getting Thing to punch him repeatedly in the same spot. Some genius.)
I feel the same way. I would much rather get the F4 back to Marvel just so they could add Dr. Doom and the Skrulls to the bad guy roster.
+1 For Doom, he is hands down my favorite villain.