Goblin Squad Member
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As far as multiple alts go, is there a way to determine which character is getting XP?
Ryan has made it clear that you'll be able to choose which Character is gaining XP. I expect you'll be able to change that choice basically at will. There will probably be some very simple interface for it directly on the Character Select screen.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I have three characters in mind, however only two will be played often enough to require continuous xp expenditure.
[Main] Bluddwolf = PVP focused, CN Barbarian, mercenary raider / bandit.
[Destiny's Twin] Qiang Tian Zsu = Multi Focused, LG Monk, herbalist / healer, explorer.
[Special Event Alt] Harbinger of Chaos = Mischief Focused, CE Necromancer, defiler of the pure and wearer of green hats.
All of my characters have an RP focus or theme to them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I find it kind of funny that the old text MUDs didn't have a problem with letting you use triggers, but wouldn't allow logged-in alts, while modern MMOs don't have a problem with logged-in alts but get all bent out of shape about triggers. I really, really wish PFO would allow me to have both...
I don't know. While I've always enjoyed 'programming games' like Crobots, incorporating that kind of thing into RPGs creates massive disparities between the non-programmers, programmers, and good programmers. I played MUDs too, and towards the end I had turned zMUD 'triggers' into a complete programming language which allowed my character to act as a 'bot' which could play on its own and do it better than any human player. That was fun, but it creates a very different game and drives out players who aren't interested or lack the skills to compete.
The usual counter-argument is that you can keep it under control by limiting the functionality available for automation... and sometimes that works. However, it is VERY easy to go a step too far and unknowingly give people the tools to create a full programming language... I did it on Wikipedia several years ago building up from a single binary switch.
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Goblin Squad Member
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... that kind of thing into RPGs creates massive disparities between the non-programmers, programmers, and good programmers.
Why is that fundamentally different from the disparity that already exists between anti-social players, casual players, and super-organized players?
I actually think it would be cool if a rich, anti-social player wanted to give Goblinworks lots of money to have 30 or 40 "bots" running. It would be similar to a Necromancer's Undead Army.
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Goblin Squad Member
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30 or 40 bot harvesters and 30 or 40 grinding player harvesters might produce the same number of resources, so it seems innocuous enough. It just seems very unlikely that 30-40 players would selflessly just give everything they harvested to some other player - but that's the inherent absurdity of alts. They allow for the rapid accumulation of resources or wealth without all of that pesky building social networks things. In a game with 10-20k players though, a 30-40 character bot farm is a blip.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Why is that fundamentally different from the disparity that already exists between anti-social players, casual players, and super-organized players?
I actually think it would be cool if a rich, anti-social player wanted to give Goblinworks lots of money to have 30 or 40 "bots" running. It would be similar to a Necromancer's Undead Army.
The fundamental difference is in which group of players and style of play is being favored. As a 'rich' anti-social professional programmer I wouldn't personally object to your vision... but it is NOT what Goblinworks is working towards. They have been very clear about emphasizing the social aspects of the game above all else.
I don't think it is possible to balance a game so that it equally suits all personality types and skill sets, but regardless that isn't the goal Goblinworks is pursuing. PFO is going to be a social game. That's somewhat 'uncomfortable' for an introvert like me, but it still promises to be a great game. Add in automation options and I'd be that much happier... but it WOULD change the game's balance and focus away from social interaction in a big way. Better to stick with the game they've said they are building and the user base which signed on based on that vision.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The fundamental difference is in which group of players and style of play is being favored.
Right. There's no fundamental difference in the disparity. That was my point.
But yeah, I get that PFO is all about "maximizing human interaction", and that allowing an anti-social player to build up an army of bots seemingly contradicts that mission. I don't really expect PFO to support the kind of automation I'd like to see, but I don't see the harm in taking the opportunity to push the boundaries of what is considered acceptable in the same way that I've been pushing the idea that a Necromancer with an Army of Undead is acceptable.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Oh, well... if we are wishing for the Moon... what >I< would really like to see is an RPG program interface designed with the intent to replace pen and paper gaming. So, for example, you'd still have a GM running the scenario and players going through it, but instead of talking and rolling dice to work out the combats you'd just fight them out in the computer game. Minimizes time spent describing the area (players can see it on screen) and running combats... freeing up more time for roleplaying. Of course, you'd want to take advantage of the high speed mathematical capabilities of the computer... so you'd also want to include a complete rewrite of the game rules with that interface in mind.
Could we shoehorn that into PFO? That'd be great. :]
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Goblin Squad Member
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I thought the original Neverwinter Nights had a mode like that in their toolset. You could go into GM mode and spawn monsters and loot and everything like that.
I was about to mention that, too. If by "original" you mean Bioware's Neverwinter Nights. I spent a lot of time in that game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Real GM are a mixed breed. I have played with 3 classics. I have played and been part of the tweaks of the foundation (1974- 1976). Great ideas influence the game. Great GM move beyond the (then) rules.
There are games for which the RULES establish the game. And there are RULES that describe the vision. As the customer base moves younger and the game has wider ranking (who is better) it moves to rules lawyers/exploiters.
MMO can not afford the personal creativity of GM nor can they allow the rules to be exploited.
If you want personal, play TT. Maybe I can join you (Skype). But that is not here. That is a fundamental problem in MMO. The owner/developer of an MMO can not create enough new material that keeps up with the community. The dream here is that other players create your content in imaginative ways.
They are your opposition (and you defeat them) or your target/victim (and you exploit them).
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Goblin Squad Member
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Harneloot, we are talking about 'code' that can control some of your character actions... for example, if it detects that you are at less than half hit-points it automatically casts healing, if you are poisoned it automatically drinks a cure poison potion, if an enemy player enters the same area it automatically attacks, et cetera.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Real GM are a mixed breed. I have played with 3 classics. I have played and been part of the tweaks of the foundation (1974- 1976). Great ideas influence the game. Great GM move beyond the (then) rules.
There are games for which the RULES establish the game. And there are RULES that describe the vision. As the customer base moves younger and the game has wider ranking (who is better) it moves to rules lawyers/exploiters.
MMO can not afford the personal creativity of GM nor can they allow the rules to be exploited.
If you want personal, play TT. Maybe I can join you (Skype). But that is not here. That is a fundamental problem in MMO. The owner/developer of an MMO can not create enough new material that keeps up with the community. The dream here is that other players create your content in imaginative ways.
They are your opposition (and you defeat them) or your target/victim (and you exploit them).
That sounds like a job for Fantasy Grounds, or Roll20.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I've only casually reviewed various virtual tabletops and I never got around to using WotC's VT when I had a DDi membership but if a cheap (or even free) VT that was easy to use both for a player and DM was available, I would love to use one. Especially if it supported several different games and editions.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Shop around for the free virtual tabletops; they're out there. I personally use TTopRPG with my friends, which is a VT that favors people who do a lot of prep work. If you're less inclined to do prep work, I find Roll20 to be a good "pick up and go" VT. And of course, you could forego a VT in favor of screensharing + chat system with dice commands (easy enough to do in an IRC channel). There's a lot of options you can pursue without spending a dime.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My brother and I've had a lot of fun...also in the "lotsa prep" realm...with RPTools, especially with their free MapTool.
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Goblin Squad Member
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MapTools by RPTools is great, but takes some time to set up and become proficient enough to lead a game on the fly. However, if you do the pre-work, the macros can make the game more about story and less about the die-rolling (although I'm the type player to enjoy a healthy combination of both).
I like CBDunkerson's idea of some method for "GM-mode" or some role to allow world modification, spawning or control of monsters/quest storyline, etc. But I bet operationalizing the safety controls on this type of power would force it to be limited to GW employees only (and even then under the strictest guidelines). I'd hate for a "player-GM" to mess with the class game balance/loot scheme at all.
To get the thread back on track ... I'd pay for alpha members to be able to achieve DT status.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I've used various virtual tabletops, but they aren't exactly what I was getting at. All of those I have seen are basically tools for making existing pen and paper gaming rules playable in an online environment and/or easier. Instead, I'd like to see a set of gaming rules designed from the ground up to ONLY be playable via computer. Get rid of or extremely limit spells which can't be simulated well on the computer. Go crazy with the complexity of the math if it allows more options and variation. Make it so every combat can be played out in real time like an MMORPG. Et cetera.
Basically, I think tabletop style roleplaying with a GM could be translated to an online environment much better if it stopped following the rules and conventions which developed for pen and paper. This can somewhat be seen in the ways that PFO has changed Pathfinder rules to work better in a computing environment. In theory, once PFO is running a group of players could get together and one of them walk the rest thru an adventure as the 'DM' (e.g. providing dialogue from NPCs and more detailed descriptions of the surroundings). Add the ability for the 'DM' to build the environment and you would then be very close to what I am talking about. Traditional roleplaying with a DM running the scenario, but with all of the game mechanics handled by a computer so they don't bog down the 'roleplaying time' at all.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As a Twin-enabled Kickstarter backer, I'd support the inclusion of an economically viable option for new customers. Not full-on Destiny's Twin, which is NOT economically viable for GW, but maybe a high-buy-in for a reduced monthly rate for a twin character.
(throwing random numbers out there) a $200 buy-in lets you add a Destiny's Twin for $5.00 a month, so your subscription becomes $20 instead of $15. That seems like it has potential, since it increases an existing revenue stream without increasing active accounts or active players.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I guess I'd be willing to consider offers for my account. Some life situations have changed enough that I don't think I'll have much time to use it.
Crowdforger Alpha ____________ 1000
(with Destiny Twin, all daily deals, etc.)
Secret Salute ________________ 10
Regional Trait Pack x2 _________ 30
Additional Alliance Pack ________ 20
The Memorial of Honor x2 _______ 40
Twice-Marked of Pharasma x2 ___ 40
1 Year of Game Time __________ 100
3 Months of Game Time x3 ______ 90
Additional Player Pack _________ 15
So it was 1345 total, set up to get everything for both the primary and the twin. I've already gotten the PDFs and miniatures, and a couple weekends of Alpha have gone by, so you can judge the value difference for not having those and let me know if you're interested. I would also like to change the account name, if possible.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thanks for the well-wishes. I guess I should clarify that, as far as anyone knows, I'm not on the brink of death or anything, though my health has certainly not improved. I also don't think I'm on the verge of homelessness & starvation, but one doesn't have to be 'medically retired' like myself for money to be a concern.
Fatigue is always an issue with my MS these days, and I'm tending to spend what energy I do have on some volunteering projects or supporting what my more local friends are doing. Killing a little time by killing imaginary monsters is no big deal, but I doubt I have the stress tolerance for the emotionally-draining personal conflicts which are likely to develop when real people fight over imaginary resources. Cooperative accomplishments enliven me, while competitive struggles just make me more tired.
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Something I forgot to mention in my previous post is that my alpha account is supposed to qualify for 'monster play', whenever that's developed.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Fatigue is always an issue with my MS these days, and I'm tending to spend what energy I do have on some volunteering projects or supporting what my more local friends are doing. Killing a little time by killing imaginary monsters is no big deal, but I doubt I have the stress tolerance for the emotionally-draining personal conflicts which are likely to develop when real people fight over imaginary resources. Cooperative accomplishments enliven me, while competitive struggles just make me more tired.
That sounds fairly typical for MS. After 15 years of living with my wife's MS and working for our regional MS Society, focusing on things you enjoy and find fun is the best thing you can do to get past it. If you don't enjoy it, or them, cut loose. There are people who are perfectly good people who we just don't make any effort to engage with any more because they are draining, as much as we may like them.
I hope someone comes along who can appreciate what a decent package you've got, and afford to make it less of a negative thing for you.