RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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Last week we announced our planned Kickstarter, aimed at creating the definitive collection of mythic support materials for your Pathfinder RPG experience using the mythic rules. Not one, not two, but THREE mythic hardcovers are planned, one for magic, one for monsters, and one for a miscellany of rules including class abilities, path abilities, feats, and more. That Kickstarter is now less than two weeks away.
While we are spearheading and coordinating this project, it is not a Legendary solo project. A great myth requires great heroes, and in this endeavor we are joining forces with Wolfgang Baur and the crew at Kobold Press as well as Owen K.C. Stephens and company at Rogue Genius Games. Of course, what good Kickstarter would be without surprises, and we have a third surprise partner that we'll be revealing tonight that will blow your mind.
For all the latest on Legendary Games and the upcoming Kickstarter, check us out tonight on the Refresh and Reload podcast with Erik "Lazarus" Frankhouse, either on their website or on their Google+ page. Check our site for the links! We should be recording at 8:30 PM tonight Pacific time (a little over an hour from now), but you'll be able to check out the podcast anytime on the R&R site.
Our official Kickstarter page should be going live next week so you'll have a good look at our funding goals, stretch goals, and pledge levels. Keep an eye on this thread and our website for the latest!
Jason Nelson
Publisher, Legendary Games
Hey Jason,
Will all the various Mythic monster books, along with all the Mythic minis be included in this? I definitely want to get some of the monster ones, and at least some, if not all of the Minis, but if they are all going to be included in these books, I would much rather save my money for the KS.
So are you up to 4 books now or still 3?
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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So are you up to 4 books now or still 3?
The intended goal is three, which may end up being named:
Mythic Spell Compendium
Mythic Monster Manual
Mythic Handbook
The baseline threshold goal is a single book that combines elements of each. We fully expect to blow past that level, but you never know with a Kickstarter, so best to start with a product that we think will be a good, solid baseline and work up from there.
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Dotting very much dotting.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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Hey Jason,
Will all the various Mythic monster books, along with all the Mythic minis be included in this? I definitely want to get some of the monster ones, and at least some, if not all of the Minis, but if they are all going to be included in these books, I would much rather save my money for the KS.
Hey there,
The short answer is that it all depends on how the Kickstarter goes.
If things succeed as broadly as we hope, then potentially all of that content could end up included in the mythic books. If they don't, then it won't.
As far as mythic monsters go, our plan is not to just build the KS along the lines of (just to throw out random numbers):
at 14000 we add Mythic Monsters 1: Demons
at 16000 we add MM 2: Fungus
at 18000 we add MM 3: Oozes
etc.
Instead, we'll be doing a combination of:
1. Selections we choose from existing products
2. Selections YOU (the fans) choose from existing products
3. Newly converted mythic monsters that we choose from the Pathfinder hardcover bestiaries or other sources (including monsters created by Legendary Games or our partners)
4. Newly converted mythic monsters that YOU (the fans) choose from the bestiaries or other sources
I say that to convey that you are not simply looking at a package and reprint of existing material. There will be a lot more besides in the new product, and the old products will also retain their value. There will absolutely be some cross-over, and that's a place where you ultimately have to decide how much each element is worth to you, and for that matter whether you want to wait a year-plus to get the content you want.
Now, if people communicate to us that they absolutely *DO* want every monster that's been done in our Mythic Monsters products included, or for that matter if the support for the Kickstarter is so great that it's a no-brainer to include it all, then that's what we'll do.
If you read Jason's message it sounds like what the M3 will contain(and possibly the rest) will be really left up to the backers. As somebody who has helped fund 13 successful KS, I am very curious how this will work, but I have faith it will be awesome.
The most successful PF Kickstarter I've been apart of was Kobold Press' Deep Magic, which raised over $100k, while the the most successful RPG KS I've helped fund was Exalted 3(Which I believe still holds the record for most funded RPG ever), which raised almost $700k.
Thus, KS/PF supporters will definitely spend money on well made RPG products. I definitely feel these books will absolutely do well, and fully plan to help support them as best I can.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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The Monkeygod has it right; it is likely that your individual Mythic Monster products will contain content that does not appear in the final Mythic Monster Manual. With a full-sized bestiary product, we want to make sure we have a good balance of creature types and CRs and how we want to apportion artwork to have good balance and variety. That is likely to mean we don't include everything from every product. It may be only half of each individual monster product that ends up in the final hardcover product.
P.S. The mythic psionics section that Dreamscarred Press will be contributing will be included as part of the Mythic Handbook.
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March 24th? That's so far away! Start it now!
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What is the point in producing books if they don't have everything in them? If some things are in print and some are in pdf's it is too scattered. I thought the idea was to put all of the material in print like the gothic series. I was interested in this until now. If things change I will be in but until then count me out.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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I'd love to include everything in the books, but part if it depends on how people respond to the Kickstarter. Art, layout, and books cost money, and if people support it in a big way, then of course we'd be happy to be encyclopedic. If the response is less than expected, we have to create a product that will make financial sense.
Philosophically speaking, though, consider it this way:
Paizo produces around 60 monsters a year in the Bestiary section of its Adventure Paths. Of those monsters, probably half eventually end up republished in one of their hardcover bestiaries. The rest don't. Some are available only in the AP when they were published and never get republished.
Likewise, when a new bestiary comes out, it includes a number of creatures that have been published before, and it also includes a number of creatures that haven't.
Why?
In part, Paizo does this to retain value in the original publication in which the creature appeared and in the new product as well. People don't feel like they are *just* buying repackaged content.
Exactly how much ends up in the final product depends on you.
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To reinforce what Jason is saying, if we took the approach of putting all of our PDF content from the mythic monsters series into a mythic monster manual, there'd be an equal outcry from those who bought the PDFs who would have rather waited until the hardcover came out instead. And, for future PDF products, many potential consumers would wait to buy them, automatically assuming we'd put them into a future hardcover. But, a small third-party publisher can't usually afford to create a comprehensive hardcover unless there's a huge outpouring of support...typically via a Kickstarter. And they can't afford to produce PDFs and then no one buy them, because they're holding out for when a print product is published consolidating them.
So, if you want everything in the books, support the Kickstarter when it launches on March 24th. And, even beyond that, encourage all of your friends to support it, too. The more we can finance the Kickstarter and its stretch goals, the more content will make it into the final book. Meanwhile, if the Kickstarter doesn't reach the higher stretch goals to incorporate that content, the PDFs still retain their value, as they'll also have unique content in them, as well. Ideally, when employing that kind of publishing strategy, things work out either way. If the Kickstarter is wildly successful and everything gets into the actual books, everyone is happy. Or, if only a subset of that material makes it into the books, the backers of the Kickstarter (who understood what they were getting when they pledged) and those who originally purchased the PDFs should also be happy. Some might still quibble a bit over having bought something electronic that eventually made its way into print. But, at least they had the opportunity to buy those PDFs before they were published in a book...which means they had use of that material for a longer period of time than those who waited for the hardcover.
Personally, I believe we'd all be ecstatic if the Kickstarter rockets through enough stretch goals that everything can be published in the books. For that to happen, however, we'll need everyone's support. So, rather than sitting it out because you're not yet guaranteed the content you'd hope would be there, go ahead and pledge and then keep an eye on the goals that are met. If we don't hit the stretch goal that incorporates all of the PDFs into the final product, you'll still have the option of cancelling your pledge. Meanwhile, if you sit things out and never pledge, the Kickstarter is obviously less likely to hit that stretch goal...in which case, the chances of the book containing everything go down. Or, if it hits the stretch goal without you, you'll miss out on an opportunity to own the book with everything in it.
So, maximize your chances by pledging early. Tell all your friends so they do the same. Keep an eye on the Kickstarter as it meets all the stretch goals. And then make your final decision before it closes.
That's just my two cents,
--Neil
It's a difficult spot for Legendary Games to be in. Nonetheless, I'm firmly in the "new content over compilation" camp. One positive being that it will act as an advertisment for the other, pre-existing products. Another being that taking resources out of reprinting stuff means there'll be resources available for creating new stuff. (Obviously new stuff is more expensive, but I'd definitely prefer ten pages of new content to a hundred pages of material I've already got).
As it is, I buy every Legendary Games release as it comes out. If this kickstarter ends up including nearly everything in the Mythic Monsters line it's going to be hard to justify buying whatever small products they make later in the year. "Getting it Early" isnt that valuable to me, which would be the only benefit of buying the smaller books if compilations become the norm.
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As I said in the other thread for this, I will absolutely support and promote the hells out of this KS. I'm pretty good at that! :)
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Believe me, we hear all of you guys, and we get everyone's concerns on both sides of the spectrum. Just know that we'll tread the line as closely as we can on providing as much compiled content as possible, while also not undercutting our electronic publishing business model. Many of these particular mythic-based PDFs haven't been out as long as the ones which made it into our Gothic Campaign compendium (where we did consolidate pretty much everything we'd produced up to that point). This go-around, the mythic Kickstarter is on track to include quite a bit of the current stuff (but not all), plenty of new stuff, and (depending on which stretch goals are hit) everything else could be included, as well. But that'll probably be pretty far up the stretch goal chain since the more pages of content which go into a book, the more expensive it becomes to produce.
In short, we have to be conscious of the price-point in relation to the inclusion of content for the Kickstarter books. And, we also have to be sure we're not burning any bridges with our electronic publishing customers, too. I'm sure Jason is going to keep a close eye on both of those things. Otherwise, the Kickstarter becomes unstable from a financial perspective and our electronic sales could diminish, as well. These are the challenges a third-party PDF publisher faces when contemplating Kickstarters and print runs. But Legendary Games doesn't do anything as a half-measure. Everyone will be focused on making sure we do right by as many of you as possible. So, keep the faith and lend us your support, if you can. As always, we greatly appreciate any and all fans and customers of our products.
Guys, if you can, get in on the "giving birth to a monster" deal. As part of my pledge for the Gothic Compilation Kickstarter, I was given the opportunity to be a sparring partner of sorts for Clintom Boomer, and it was a fun experience. :-)
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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So, if I've been working on some Mythic Aeon conversions, does that fall under the category ofgiving birth to a monster, or is that only for completely new monsters?
Either way I'm interested:)
That would actually be adopting a monster - if the monster already exists in Pathfinder but does not yet have a mythic version.
Marrying a monster means you pick a mythic monster that we have already done, but it (a) gets auto-included in the compilation regardless of other votes, (b) the monster gets a new illustration, and (c) you get an art print of the monster you married!
Giving birth to a monster means the same as above, but you work together to create something brand new. It could be a monster concept all your own or something from a previous edition of the game or a different game that we create as a mythic Pathfinder monster.
Would adopting a monster give us some degree of input into the mythic version?
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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Would adopting a monster give us some degree of input into the mythic version?
Yes! It would be similar to the backer rewards on our previous Kickstarter, where you would work with the designer to create the monster in question, though the designer would have final call on the creature's abilities and game mechanics.
Again, why is it not tomorrow so I can throw down for this? Did you guys just do this to tease us?
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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Again, why is it not tomorrow so I can throw down for this? Did you guys just do this to tease us?
Naw, we would never tease!
However, check out the latest post on our website!
We are definitely in range... very close now...
Just curious, with the announcement today that the KS will be slightly delayed, are we looking at a few days, the end of the week, or more before it goes live?
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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A few days I think. Got a lot of revisions done tonight and axed about a dozen superfluous goals and rewrote a lot of the "story" section of the Kickstarter page. I'll probably record a new video tomorrow after work, and I'm meeting with Rachel and Wolfgang tomorrow night. If all goes well, I think we should be ready to go by Wednesday... when we'll be guests on Owen and Steve's podcast!
I missed this ks but have been waiting for it to come out so I can purchase it. I know its probably still a long way off, but is there even a vague eta, such as early next year or something?
Next May was the initial estimate and I doubt it has changed much.
They are the smaller softcover books some of which will be included in the larger hardcover when it comes out.
We basically have a series of Mythic plug-ins for monsters, mythic path abilities, spell collections, and so on. A lot of that material is standalone...i.e., won't appear in the Mythic Mania books. Whereas some of that material actually will make it into the books. We're continuing to develop new mythic content with every new PDF and print product. However, the final Mythic Mania books (which include a bestiary, spell compendium, and heroes' handbook) only have a certain page-count to them. So, they can't contain everything we've produced. They will, however, have some special content you can only get in the hardcovers which came out of the backer pledges.
As for an ETA on a straight purchase, I let Jason speak to the progress the team has made. And, if you really want in on the Kickstarter, I think he was willing to add people to the mix if he could take your payment via PayPal or something similar. Just ask him about it. Or, he'll find his way here and indicate if that option is still available.
That's more of a logistical question Jason would need to address.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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Hi all,
Much of the content in the mythic products we are producing now are, as Neil indicated, also going to be included in our three hardbacks being created for the Mythic Mania Kickstarter.
Mythic Magic: This product line is doing conversions of the spells in the Pathfinder hardbacks. ALL of these spells will be included in the Mythic Spell Compendium. If you've already pledged for that book, you will get all of these spells once the book is out next year. If you want the material before then or were not a KS backer, you can pick up the PDFs or print copies now.
Mythic Monsters: The KS backers voted for 4 creatures from each book that will definitely be included in the Mythic Monster Manual; the list of the winners is posted on our Kickstarter site and I believe has been posted here on Paizo previously. The frontmatter from the Mythic Monsters series and other monsters from these books MIGHT end up the hardbacks, depending on how we balance out the books to ensure an ideal range of creatures and content across all levels of usefulness. These products are useful pick-ups even for KS backers, but if you want to wait for the hardbacks you will get a good amount of the content from the various books.
Mythic Minis: The minis that present new path abilities and mythic versions of feats from the Pathfinder core rulebooks are content that will also appear in the hardbacks, mostly in the Mythic Hero's Handbook.
Mythic Paths: These products (well, product for the moment, since only Path of Dragons has been released so far, though Path of Villains is still on track for this month) contain material that may appear in the hardbacks. The Mythic Hero's Handbook will include two new mythic paths for PCs, but whether the villain material and dragon material are included will depend on final editing decisions as we are putting the books together. If I had to guess right at this moment, I would anticipate that Villains will be included but Dragons probably not, but that's far from certain in both cases.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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Mr. Splicer-
Would it be convenient to include purchase of some of these soon to be released mythic products near the time of delivery of the Mythic Mania products to reduce shipping costs? I am in a small group of folks that will not be able to make use of such material until about or after the ETA of the Mythic Mania project, so getting it now would not be of much use, but saving money on shipping would be. Thank you.
Yes, that is certainly do-able.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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Ok thanks for the reply, hmmmm mythic mini's isn't really my thing but the mythic spell conversions certainly would be. I'll have to keep an eye out for the release.
Three of the Mythic Magic series are available now:
Mythic Magic: Core Spells, featuring mythic spell conversions for every spell in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook.
Mythic Magic: Advanced Spells I, featuring mythic spell conversions for every spell in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Advanced Player's Guide.
Mythic Magic: Ultimate Spells I, featuring mythic spell conversions for every spell in Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Ultimate Combat.
please Jason, make the mythic dragon path in the Hero Labs like Mythic path of villain. Two great product lick Legendary games.