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I'm a spellcaster by trade - I don't really know the ins and outs of rogue builds. I really want to create a character (PFS, so limited to official material) who's excellent at stealth and can really let loose the damage (hopefully with sneak attack) when it's needed. I know rogues have a bad reputation as being underpowered, but it's a rogue (or a similar class - I have my eye on the ACG Slayer) that really catches my eye for this concept. I'm going to make him very unassuming - looks weak, acts meekly and servile, never being threatening - but when combat breaks out, people start dying. "Assassin in sheep's clothing," if you will.
What can be done to make a powerful stealth/sneak attacking killer? What feats/items/classes do it best, and how can I pull it off?
Not to dissuade you from basing your build off rogue, but knowing their reputation and general weaknesses, have you considered using an urban ranger instead. Though lacking Sneak Attack, the urban ranger being a full BAB class, with favored enemy and the urban rangers special urban movement abilities can do the rogues job, while avoiding the weaknesses to a large extent.
Rogue is iconic, and shouldn't be cast aside, but you might find fitting the role with urban ranger as less problematic.
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In the advanced character playtest, the class "Slayer" seems perfect for you.
1 part Rogue, 1 part Ranger, will full BAB and 1d10 HD.
Ninja, Concealed weapons trick, Quick Draw, Underhanded rogue talent.
With Hidden Weapons, you can draw a hidden weapon as a move action, which Quick Draw will move down to a free action. Underhanded lets you hit max damage with sneak attack dice when you use a concealed weapon during the surprise round.
Also, Vanishing Trick to make sure you will always get your SA damage, and Flurry of Stars to get the most sneak attack attempts that you can.
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Not to dissuade you from basing your build off rogue, but knowing their reputation and general weaknesses, have you considered using an urban ranger instead. Though lacking Sneak Attack, the urban ranger being a full BAB class, with favored enemy and the urban rangers special urban movement abilities can do the rogues job, while avoiding the weaknesses to a large extent.
Rogue is iconic, and shouldn't be cast aside, but you might find fitting the role with urban ranger as less problematic.
In the advanced character playtest, the class "Slayer" seems perfect for you.
1 part Rogue, 1 part Ranger, will full BAB and 1d10 HD.
Yeah, I've been looking at that class and it feels right. I just really am looking for some more in-depth advice and build help. I want to be able to pull off some truly spectacular damage and kills, not just build a passable combatant. I optimize pretty heavily - my main is a Magus and she can one-shot almost any foe on a crit (which she does 30% of the time). Magus I have figured out - there's a pretty clear path to absurd power if you build one right. It's the non-magical rogue/assassin/slayer type of class I'm not as familiar with.
My thoughts from looking at Sneak Attack is that the way to go is to get a giant pile of many attacks (probably with some natural weapons, despite how that doesn't fit my concept well). Magus is all about landing that "one big crit" but a rogue doesn't care about crits, he cares about "triggering" the sneak attack and then landing like, six of them.
Flat damage bonuses from strength, power attacking - these are fighter tools, not assassin tools. It's exploiting the multiplicity of flanking full attacks that makes a roguish character powerful, I feel. Is that in line with others' understanding?
My understanding is that rogues have the same problem that monks do, namely that they miss a lot. It isn't going to do you any good to make a PFS character that relies on getting into perfect situations. Sure your rogue is going to do more damage than a ranger IF he can convince 5 people to let him do his thing for however long it takes while they do nothing...
Stealth is poorly supported in pathfinder. Pathfinder conflict operates in 2 primary forms. Magic and Physical fighting. You'll notice that both of these concepts have ENDLESS support in the rules books and updated content.
Look at the support for stealth characters. Nothing in comparison, unless of course you start using magic.
Stealth is slow, and chances are you will be the only one in the party who will, "sneak ahead."
I truly empathize though. I love stealth characters, but Pathfinder punishes you quite handily for going that route.
Sorry.
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It's flanking, not stealth, that will get you your big damage (or greater invisibility, heh). That, or the feint tree. I really want a way to, without relying on the party obeying my instructions, unload several sneak attacks on an opponent in a round. One sneak attack is barely more damage than a two-hander fighter or barbarian will do with a single swing.
I wonder if there's a way to make someone paralyzed or helpless easily? Or blinded... hmm. Dirty trick, perhaps? If you can find a way to blind a target as a swift action (even for one round), you can destroy them with a full attack and two-weapon fighting.
Perhaps smoke bombs or something (plus the ability to see through smoke), and a reach weapon?
If you want to unload multiple sneak attacks on a regular basis you are gonna need some way of moving into position and full attacking in the same round. This means you need pounce, or something like it. You can get a mount, or you can ride a Floating Disk moved by someone else. You can go the Tiger style route, be a level 10 barbarian or be an oracle with the Battle mystery, but these all present problems. Mounts and Floating Disks mean relying on another PC or NPC, Style feats and greater beast totem require being high level, the Surprising Charge revelation is probably the easiest, but it is only gonna work 1/day until you hit Oracle 7 (something you aren't interested in in a sneak attack build.)
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Three builds come to mind.
1. Fighter(weapon master) 3/rogue(knifemaster, scout) X. This build can crank out some damage getting sneak attack on flank, charging, and improved two-weapon feint. It costs quite a bit of gold to be effective as u need 2 either agile or keen weapons and duelist gloves so your atk bonus doesn't suck. It also uses d8's for the sneak dice with kukris and daggers.
2. Rogue 3/ranger X. The 3 level dip in rogue to get 2d6 sneak attack and some extra class skills, but slower ranger progression. But this will make a STR based twf viable. You get your own flanking buddy, better BAB, and more hp. Bane weapons + instant enemy = murder.
3. Slayer. Slower sneak attack progression, but full BAB and d10. Bluff is a class skill max it. Make sure you have at least 15 DEX and enough gold to buy a +2 belt when you can qualify for improved two weapon feint. The favored target helps with the twf penalty and is more versatile than favored target.
Any one of these builds could also benefit from 1 level of wave Oracle to use obscuring mist for more sneak attacks. It does mean that u will need some CHA however. These are all twf builds which will get you more sneak dice but lower your attack bonus so boosting that is priority.
My friend has a halfling vanilla rogue that has a ridiculously high stealth. He deals tons of damage with two weapon fighting, benefiting from my druid's tiger as a flanking partner, and his hacking bard cohort who casts haste, invisibility, dimension door etc (can be done with the parties caster as well) it is such a great build.
He has 80-something HP with toughness and a belt and such, which is great in my opinion. (He is level 10 now, but was level 9.
He also is almost as good as his cohort's bard at diplomacy and bluff and such.
He definitely pulls his weight, and 1 round pretty much anyone who is at the same level as he.
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Tengu Swordmaster/Scout is pretty good for a rogue. They get a really good pounce-like ability from trance, and scouts can sneak attack on movement.
It's still not game breaking, it has the standard lack of accuracy and over-reliance on sneak attack that is a problem to all rogues, and it limits you to a Tengu (Or human/assimar if you want to be cheesy).
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Tengu Swordmaster/Scout is pretty good for a rogue. They get a really good pounce-like ability from trance, and scouts can sneak attack on movement.
It's still not game breaking, it has the standard lack of accuracy and over-reliance on sneak attack that is a problem to all rogues, and it limits you to a Tengu (Or human/assimar if you want to be cheesy).
The Swordmaster is one I've been looking at intently, but unfortunately it carries a pretty massive drawback in that you need to waste one entire round just to "set up" your pounce, and even then, you need to succeed on CMB - which means you're going to fail very often due to your low BAB and the commonality of absurdly high CMDs from big targets.
Three builds come to mind.
1. Fighter(weapon master) 3/rogue(knifemaster, scout) X. This build can crank out some damage getting sneak attack on flank, charging, and improved two-weapon feint. It costs quite a bit of gold to be effective as u need 2 either agile or keen weapons and duelist gloves so your atk bonus doesn't suck. It also uses d8's for the sneak dice with kukris and daggers.
Any reason you couldn't wear medium armor (mithral breastplate) and max strength instead of dex for this build?
2. Rogue 3/ranger X. The 3 level dip in rogue to get 2d6 sneak attack and some extra class skills, but slower ranger progression. But this will make a STR based twf viable. You get your own flanking buddy, better BAB, and more hp. Bane weapons + instant enemy = murder.
Your animal companion will be really weak in this situation, even with Boon Companion. Interesting idea though...
3. Slayer. Slower sneak attack progression, but full BAB and d10. Bluff is a class skill max it. Make sure you have at least 15 DEX and enough gold to buy a +2 belt when you can qualify for improved two weapon feint. The favored target helps with the twf penalty and is more versatile than favored target.
Slayer seems solid, just nothing devastating here. It can't really "exploit" sneak attack like certain other tactics can.
Any one of these builds could also benefit from 1 level of wave Oracle to use obscuring mist for more sneak attacks. It does mean that u will need some CHA however. These are all twf builds which will get you more sneak dice but lower your attack bonus so boosting that is priority.
I'd probably go Ifrit rather than Oracle, and use smoke bombs or something with Fire Sight.
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Play a Vivisectionist Alchemist
Take Trap-Finder as one of your Traits
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/campaign-traits/mummy-s-mask/trap-finder
Forget the Rogue ever existed
Profit
PFS. Read the first post.
Play an Investigator or play a Slayer with Trap-Finder.
Forget the Rogue ever existed
Profit
Don't care about traps. Care about killing. Read the first post.
Play a Ranger with Trap Finder
Take Boon Companion for free Flanking Buddy and incidental damage.
Marvel at your buffed Dire Tiger or Dire Wolf doing as much damage as your Rogue used to with Strongjaws, Vital Strike and Improved Natural Attack.
Actually hit things in combat
Profit
Not interested in a giant scary pet. Read the first post.
Play a variant Bard or play a Bard with Trap-Finder.
Want to be a sneaky assassin, not a musician. Read the first post.
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Society takes current level into account for acs and saves. so the real problem with being a rogue is the 3/4 bab progression. meaning you have to roll higher and higher as the game goes on. tougher encounteres take into account that you should be attempting to get flanking no matter what the class so then there comes the additional to hit requirement. if you are playing in a group that meets every week there are a few things you can do.
1. make friends with someone and ask them to take outflank and you take it too. +2 more to hit.
2. Eldritch heritage (arcane) for a familiar then Improved familiar for an imp or something that can flank for you while invisible (if the gm doesnt allow it thats his interpretation whatever) or he can aid you if you already have flanking (to aid he would probably have to be visible). +2 to hit either way.
3. there are a number of traits and feats that equate to improved chance to hit. i.e. weapon focus, sword scion, these can make up for the difference of your missed bab levels for quite a few levels. the only thing you miss out on is the power attack bonus (that you should not be using as a rogue).
4. forget about dual wielding it is not viable.
5. weapon choice. if you are playing a elf or half elf use an elven curved blade, if you are using a half orc use a falchion.
6. if you go weapon finesse route you will be worthless unless you are sneak attacking. i would recommend going strength based with a 2 handed weapon.
7. its already been said but i will +1 it at this point in my post. Feint is very useful for you. though it is feat intensive it can let you work solo when need be.
8. make friends with a mage or get a familiar and have it use wands on you. wands of bulls strength, invisibility, vanish, dimension door,
9. most classes should spend about 10% of wealth on consumables it is my belief a rogue should spend more. you must be the swiss army knife. ready for any situation with the correct scroll, potion, wand, contraption, skill check to handle the problem.
10. do not give up your trap finding. in all honesty its the only reason im ever happy to see a rogue at my table. without it people will view you as less useful. i know the archetypes look cool without it but it is something the party should have. and making someone else give up a useful piece of there class so you can get some little trick is not worth it to the party.
11. you are playing a very sub optimal class. accept that do your best to make up for it. and remember everyone else can get away with just doing what they want. you need to hold delay initiative and hold action and think about every play or you wont make it.
I'm a spellcaster by trade - I don't really know the ins and outs of rogue builds. I really want to create a character (PFS, so limited to official material) who's excellent at stealth and can really let loose the damage (hopefully with sneak attack) when it's needed. I know rogues have a bad reputation as being underpowered, but it's a rogue (or a similar class - I have my eye on the ACG Slayer) that really catches my eye for this concept. I'm going to make him very unassuming - looks weak, acts meekly and servile, never being threatening - but when combat breaks out, people start dying. "Assassin in sheep's clothing," if you will.
What can be done to make a powerful stealth/sneak attacking killer? What feats/items/classes do it best, and how can I pull it off?
NINJA!
or
Freebooter trapper ranger
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Play a Vivisectionist Alchemist
Take Trap-Finder as one of your Traits
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/campaign-traits/mummy-s-mask/trap-finder
Forget the Rogue ever existed
ProfitPFS. Read the first post.
Play an Investigator or play a Slayer with Trap-Finder.
Forget the Rogue ever existed
ProfitDon't care about traps. Care about killing. Read the first post.
Play a Ranger with Trap Finder
Take Boon Companion for free Flanking Buddy and incidental damage.
Marvel at your buffed Dire Tiger or Dire Wolf doing as much damage as your Rogue used to with Strongjaws, Vital Strike and Improved Natural Attack.
Actually hit things in combat
ProfitNot interested in a giant scary pet. Read the first post.
Play a variant Bard or play a Bard with Trap-Finder.Want to be a sneaky assassin, not a musician. Read the first post.
Ahhhh. This exchange was a breath of fresh air!
My thoughts from looking at Sneak Attack is that the way to go is to get a giant pile of many attacks (probably with some natural weapons, despite how that doesn't fit my concept well). Magus is all about landing that "one big crit" but a rogue doesn't care about crits, he cares about "triggering" the sneak attack and then landing like, six of them.
Flat damage bonuses from strength, power attacking - these are fighter tools, not assassin tools. It's exploiting the multiplicity of flanking full attacks that makes a roguish character powerful, I feel. Is that in line with others' understanding?
There are a few ways to get some small natural attacks. Half-orcs have two ways to get a bite attack: the "Toothy" alternate racial feature, or the "Tusked" race trait from Orcs of Golarion. Tieflings can swap their darkness spell-like ability for either a d6 bite or a pair of d4 claws. Dipping 2 levels into Ranger and choosing the Natural Attack style gets you access to the Aspect of the Beast feat, from which you can choose a pair of d4 claws.
Seems an easy way might be to go tiefling, take the Adopted trait and then "Tusked" to get a bite, then swap out your darkness ability for the two claws. d4 bite, d4 claw, d4 claw at level 1. They make fine rogues, too.
You should have no problem in PFS with a rogue because it maxes out at 12th level. I find rogues work the best between 8-12th level. It's the higher levels when they suffer. Damage output and defense go up fast after 12th level. Basically meaning many level appropriate encounters are down right deadly for rogue. I've ran quite a few APs going up to level 18 and rogues suffer big time in the 15-18 level range.
So PFS is great for rogues.
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A few posts have basically said "accept that you'll be weak" which is the exact opposite of my intention. I'm entirely convinced it's possible to make a character who uses sneak attack but isn't a weakling - the archetypal "standard rogue" just isn't that character. In fact, if I can find a clever way to exploit multiple attacks, I'm convinced sneak attack can be completely viable as a means of dealing massive damage.
I think the build I go with is going to be either a Slayer, or a Rogue/something multiclass. I really like the idea of the Surprise Follow Through feat (and the Skulking Slayer archetype, despite it being a rogue) - make a feint at one target and then decapitate his buddy before he even knows I've swung at him.
Ahhhh. This exchange was a breath of fresh air!
I regret even responding to a troll but at least I got to be snarky.
Seems an easy way might be to go tiefling, take the Adopted trait and then "Tusked" to get a bite, then swap out your darkness ability for the two claws. d4 bite, d4 claw, d4 claw at level 1. They make fine rogues, too.
Not bad. I wonder if a Warpriest dip for some of the powerful Blessings and the Sacred Weapon boost would be worth it?
You should have no problem in PFS with a rogue because it maxes out at 12th level. I find rogues work the best between 8-12th level. It's the higher levels when they suffer. Damage output and defense go up fast after 12th level. Basically meaning many level appropriate encounters are down right deadly for rogue. I've ran quite a few APs going up to level 18 and rogues suffer big time in the 15-18 level range.
So PFS is great for rogues.
I've seen a few rogues do well, but not anything spectacular. Mostly just one guy who succeeds because he's prepared for everything (we call him "batman" for his utility belt of 70 different scrolls and potions) rather than anything about his character build.
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While this may not be exactly what you're looking for, have you considered an arcane trickster? You still get sneak attack and rogue skills, yet on top of that you have the versatility of being a caster and those spells you get can help to shore up some of the natural weaknesses rogues have. You can -technically- qualify for Arcane Trickster with just 1 level in your caster class if you play a vairent aasimiar(which is PF society legal, can't take the standard aasimiar, though, because daylight is a level 3, not a level 2.) or make your arcane half a wizard specialized in divination. If you go arcane trickster you'll have everything you need to be an "assassin," including sneak attack, while also having the versatility of a caster. While it may not be the -exact- flavor you're looking for, it does largely what you want and if it's any consolation the 3.5e Assassin class had spellcasting and even got a spellbook! Also, if you want to play up the whole "weak, harmless guise" idea having level(s) in a spellcasting class would let your guy pretend to be the weak little wizard(or sorcerer) who spends all his time with his nose in a book and can't pick up a blade to save his life.
If you do go with arcane trickster there are two strong options...rogue 3/wizard(diviner) 1/Arcane Trickster X if you want wizard versatility and don't care about social skills or Musetouched Aasimiar Ninja 3/Sorcerer 1/Arcane Trickster X if you want to be charismatic. You could also swap out ninja for rogue on the 2nd one but if your going go with a cha-based caster(which, IMO, is somewhat inferior to the wizard option) you may as well milk that cha for all it's worth with ninja.
I certainly understand if arcane trickster is not your thing. However, it honestly is, in my mind, the best way to make use of the standard rogue class in pathfinder.
I'd go with Half Orc.
S: 16 +2 Racial +4 item
D: 14 +1 @ 4, +1 @ 8 +4 item
C: 14
I: 13
W: 9 +1 @ 12
C: 8
Take Sacred Tattoo and the Trait Fates Favored for +2 to all saves to counter the low Wisdom. Boost Dex at 4 and 8 and raise Wis at 12. Second trait Armor Expert for -1 ACP and use a Mitheral Breast plate with out being proficient in Medium armor due a ACP of 0 and it's light armor.
Use a Falchion for the 18-20 crit range.
Feats
1) Power attack
T2) Weapon Training: Weapon Focus Falchion
3) Furious Focus
T4) Combat Trick: Combat Expertise
5) Improved Feint
T6) Offensive Defense
7) Gang up
T8) Bleed Attack
9) Greater Fient
T10) Improve Evasion
11) Improve Critical
T12) Opportunist
By level 12 you will be feinting to get your sneak attack while power attacking for +9 damage as standard action at with no penalty due to furious focus.
Flachion +3: +17 for 2D4 +21 +6D6 (15-20 x2)
AC: 30 (+5 Mitheral Breast Plate +11, +2 Deflection, +2 Natural, +5 Dex)
voska66, you have to shuffle your feats around, you don't qualify for power attack until you have BaB +1
voska66, you have to shuffle your feats around, you don't qualify for power attack until you have BaB +1
Good point, I always forget that pesky requirement.
Move combat expertise up to level 1 and take power attack at level 3 shifting Furious focus to Combat trick Rogue talent.
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I was where you are Morphling. I wanted to make an awesome rogue so bad. What you are seeing is a class that can be outdone in any area by another class who also brings significantly more to the table.
Sneak attack is not an advantage for the class. It is difficult to achieve, adds marginal damage, and even worse, acts as an obstacle from giving rogues serious design changes.
Players: "Rogues need to be able to hit more."
Devs: "Not really! Sneak attack means that when they do hit, they do incredible damage!"
Players: "Rogues need to do more damage."
Devs: "Not really! Sneak attack gives them the means to do INCREDIBLE DAMAGE!"
This is really just something you need to accept. Pathfinder, while being really fun, does have some really glaring flaws. The biggest of which is the total imbalance between casters and martial. And within that discrepency, rogues can hardly compete against other martials.
YOU WILL NEVER BUILD A ROGUE WHO CAN SURPASS ALMOST ANY OTHER EQUALLY OPTIMIZED CHARACTER.
That being said, if your group is particularly roleplay focused and your DM likes to throw you a bone, you may have fun.
A Scout Rogue 4/Beastmorph Vivi Alchemist 10 gets Pounce with full SA dice on a charge -- albeit a little in the game.
The scout, knife master rogue/weapon master fighter mentioned above is excellent build, although I humbly submit the brawler archetype as an alternate for weapon master.
A thug build can do some fun things with intimidate -- especially when combined with Bludgeoner and Enforcer, or an Order of Cockatrice Cavalier and Shatter defenses, or any other myriad demoralizing antics.
A while back I had tried this dirty fighter, lore warden build -- it was really based largely around the RP (this character is the Ur-Scoundrel) but worked quite well really.
Lv.1 (R1): TWF/Weapon Finesse
Lv.2 (R2): Weapon Training: Dagger
Lv.3 (R3): Shadow Strike
Lv.4 (R4): Offensive Defense
Lv.5 (F1): Agile Maneuvers/Step Up
Lv.6 (F2): Combat Expertise/Improved Dirty Trick
Lv.7 (R5): Following Step
Lv.8 (R6): Pressure Points
Lv.9 (R7): Greater Dirty Trick
Edit: Just remembered this is for Society play, so never mind the vivisectionist stuff. I'm not really familiar with Society play (only recently available in my area) so if there's anything else I mention that isn't applicable, my apologies.
There is a build with the Horizon Walker PrC (link) that had Domain Mastery and Extra Rogue Tricks to get incredible bonuses from it. I am talking attack and damage both at insane values.
/cevah
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You could do a Rogue with Bandit Archetype, and Snapshot then focus on throwing daggers. Then i think.. underhanded? Provided you get surprise or win initiative the character should be able to do alot of 'burst' damage.
But Its all theory craft for me.
my last rogue, had a +1 returning bouncy ball and sap adept and sap mastery feats :) was alot of fun really.
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Play a Vivisectionist Alchemist
Take Trap-Finder as one of your Traits
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/campaign-traits/mummy-s-mask/trap-finder
Forget the Rogue ever existed
ProfitPFS. Read the first post.
Play an Investigator or play a Slayer with Trap-Finder.
Forget the Rogue ever existed
ProfitDon't care about traps. Care about killing. Read the first post.
Play a Ranger with Trap Finder
Take Boon Companion for free Flanking Buddy and incidental damage.
Marvel at your buffed Dire Tiger or Dire Wolf doing as much damage as your Rogue used to with Strongjaws, Vital Strike and Improved Natural Attack.
Actually hit things in combat
ProfitNot interested in a giant scary pet. Read the first post.
Play a variant Bard or play a Bard with Trap-Finder.Want to be a sneaky assassin, not a musician. Read the first post.
This makes me smile.
I'm a spellcaster by trade - I don't really know the ins and outs of rogue builds. I really want to create a character (PFS, so limited to official material) who's excellent at stealth and can really let loose the damage (hopefully with sneak attack) when it's needed. I know rogues have a bad reputation as being underpowered, but it's a rogue (or a similar class - I have my eye on the ACG Slayer) that really catches my eye for this concept. I'm going to make him very unassuming - looks weak, acts meekly and servile, never being threatening - but when combat breaks out, people start dying. "Assassin in sheep's clothing," if you will.
What can be done to make a powerful stealth/sneak attacking killer? What feats/items/classes do it best, and how can I pull it off?
I have some build ideas. Are you willing to play the Ninja are only Rogue? Any race preferences?
I like 8 levels Knife Master/Bandit Rogue & 4 Brawler Fighter using Punching Daggers.
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I'm a spellcaster by trade - I don't really know the ins and outs of rogue builds. I really want to create a character (PFS, so limited to official material) who's excellent at stealth and can really let loose the damage (hopefully with sneak attack) when it's needed. I know rogues have a bad reputation as being underpowered, but it's a rogue (or a similar class - I have my eye on the ACG Slayer) that really catches my eye for this concept. I'm going to make him very unassuming - looks weak, acts meekly and servile, never being threatening - but when combat breaks out, people start dying. "Assassin in sheep's clothing," if you will.
What can be done to make a powerful stealth/sneak attacking killer? What feats/items/classes do it best, and how can I pull it off?
I like the idea, in my current gaming group we have a guy playing a slayer more rogue then ranger, but I can see the possibility of what your wanting. As such I've put together a concept that while I think fits the criteria you've set, I don't know if it fits PFS.
Human Slayer 10
NG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +2; Senses Perception +17
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Defense
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AC 12, touch 12, flat-footed 10 (+2 Dex)
hp 74 (10d10+10)
Fort +8, Ref +9, Will +4
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 keen falchion +16/+11 (2d4+8/15-20)
Special Attacks favored target, sneak attack +3d6
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Statistics
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Str 20, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 13
Base Atk +10; CMB +15; CMD 27
Feats Cleave, Cleaving Finish, Combat Reflexes, Great Cleave, Improved Surprise Follow-Through, Power Attack, Shadow Strike, Skill Focus (Stealth), Surprise Follow-Through
Traits dirty fighter, ordinary
Skills Acrobatics +15, Bluff +4, Climb +9, Disguise +4, Intimidate +17, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +10, Knowledge (geography) +10, Knowledge (local) +10, Perception +17, Sense Motive +17, Stealth +24 (+28 when hiding in a crowd), Survival +10 (+15 to track), Swim +9
Languages Aklo, Common
SQ combat styles (two-handed weapon), slayer talents (assassinate, bleeding attack, combat trick, ranger combat style, ranger combat style), track
Other Gear +1 keen falchion
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Special Abilities
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Assassinate (DC 16) (Ex) Can kill unaware foe with a prepared sneak attack (Fort neg).
Bleeding Attack +3 (Ex) Sneak attacks also deal 3 bleed damage/round.
Cleave If you hit a foe, attack an adjacent target at the same attack bonus but take -2 AC.
Cleaving Finish Make additional attack if opponent is knocked out
Combat Reflexes (3 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Dirty Fighter +1 damage when flanking.
Favored Target (+3, 3 at a time, Swift) (Ex) Study foe as a Swift action, gain +3 to att/dam & some skills vs. them.
Improved Surprise Follow-Through When using cleave or great cleave, all additional opponents are denied their Dex bonus.
Ordinary +4 trait bonus to Stealth when hiding in a crowd.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Shadow Strike You can deal precision damage against targets with some concealment.
Sneak Attack +3d6 +3d6 damage if you flank your target or your target is flat-footed.
Surprise Follow-Through When you are using Cleave, your second foe is denied its Dex bonus.
Track +5 Add the listed bonus to survival checks made to track.
So as a breakdown, while using power attack and favored target, your attacks gain a +9 dmg or +12 if using it two handed. The reason I went with the Cleave chain of feats is so that your sneak attack gets used more often. I took abilities that i thought gave the character flare. Hope you enjoy
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While this may not be exactly what you're looking for, have you considered an arcane trickster?
Yes. Currently working on a (different concept) build for a character with full (or close to it) caster level and full (or close to it) sneak attack progression. Can you say Sneak Attack Spell Magus Crit? Can you say "I brought a bucket of dice?"
I have some build ideas. Are you willing to play the Ninja are only Rogue? Any race preferences?
Ninja is fine, prefer human/half-orc/half-elf but I care more about power than race. Kitsune is also okay.
There is a build with the Horizon Walker PrC (link) that had Domain Mastery and Extra Rogue Tricks to get incredible bonuses from it. I am talking attack and damage both at insane values.
What level do you actually get all those goodies, though?
I like the idea, in my current gaming group we have a guy playing a slayer more rogue then ranger, but I can see the possibility of what your wanting. As such I've put together a concept that while I think fits the criteria you've set, I don't know if it fits PFS.
Interesting build. I shall look over it closely for inspiration.
There is a build with the Horizon Walker PrC (link) that had Domain Mastery and Extra Rogue Tricks to get incredible bonuses from it. I am talking attack and damage both at insane values.What level do you actually get all those goodies, though?
Horizon Walker 3.
The link above details all this.
/cevah
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Are you ignoring my build suggestion completely? I was the first person to actually pay attention to what you said you were looking to do.
No, it's a good build. I'm definitely looking at it for ideas as I think about feats/classes.
edit: Actually, I think what you want is probably best covered by the slayer. I'd go the two-weapon fighting route, picking up the TWF feats through slayer talent -> ranger combat style, so you don't need high dex and can have high strength instead. Get the blade of mercy trait, and the feats intimidating prowess, weapon focus, enforcer, dazzling display and shatter defenses. Now when you attack an opponent you declare your first attack as nonlethal. Assuming you hit and make the initimidation check (you should), enforcer makes your opponents shaken for a bunch of rounds. Your next hit (for lethal damage) and all consecutive hits will render your opponent flat-footed until the end of your next turn. So from the third hit in you're doing sneak attack damage, pretty much until the end of the fight since enforcer lasts a long time and shatter defenses keeps triggering. And you didn't have to give up any attacks for dirty tricks or feints or anything like that. Meanwhile, you have full baes attack...
Damn, that's clever. I love that!
Only thing is, I already have a PFS character who does pure Nonlethal and uses Enforcer with Blade of Mercy... heh. Maybe I'll do round 2 of that combo.
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I like the idea, in my current gaming group we have a guy playing a slayer more rogue then ranger, but I can see the possibility of what your wanting. As such I've put together a concept that while I think fits the criteria you've set, I don't know if it fits PFS.Interesting build. I shall look over it closely for inspiration.
I feel honored "nods in respect"
Curious though, have you thought up which weapons route you might take. It could help with build options if we know if you've settled on a weapon or style. For instance, two-weapon fighting for the extra attacks, two-handed for more damage, sword and board for better AC etc...
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There is a build with the Horizon Walker PrC (link) that had Domain Mastery and Extra Rogue Tricks to get incredible bonuses from it. I am talking attack and damage both at insane values.What level do you actually get all those goodies, though?Horizon Walker 3.
The link above details all this.
/cevah
I ask because Master of All Lands seems to be at level 10 - making it not activate until 16th level.
Am I reading it wrong?
I like the idea, in my current gaming group we have a guy playing a slayer more rogue then ranger, but I can see the possibility of what your wanting. As such I've put together a concept that while I think fits the criteria you've set, I don't know if it fits PFS.Interesting build. I shall look over it closely for inspiration.I feel honored "nods in respect"
Curious though, have you thought up which weapons route you might take. It could help with build options if we know if you've settled on a weapon or style. For instance, two-weapon fighting for the extra attacks, two-handed for more damage, sword and board for better AC etc...
Definitely don't want a shield, but I'm torn between a two-hander and two-weapon-fighting.
Bastard sword in one hand and short sword in another feels really cool, but so does a two-hander. I'll pick weapons based on whatever is strongest - the weapons can be adapted easily to the build.
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If you go ninja, you could always go katana/wakizashi and then just two-hand the katana when you feel like it.
This thread and some others have me wanting to make a halfling rogue. I can't decide if I want to go knife master for the d8s on sneak attack, or go ninja and dual-wield wakizashi.
Halfling rogues are so iconic I feel like never making one - I like being unusual, haha.
Have you taken a look at the Sap Master tree? Combined with a lvl of monk makes a truly (non) lethal build. 3d6 sneak attack becomes 6d6+12, 5d6 become 10d6+20. All of this damage is non lethal which of course has its pros and cons. It wont work in some situations but you are not in danger of killing off important NPCs accidentally.
Credit to Jason Avery (I believe you know him), he built a wonderful example of this.
There is a build with the Horizon Walker PrC (link) that had Domain Mastery and Extra Rogue Tricks to get incredible bonuses from it. I am talking attack and damage both at insane values.What level do you actually get all those goodies, though?Horizon Walker 3.
The link above details all this.
/cevah
I ask because Master of All Lands seems to be at level 10 - making it not activate until 16th level.
Am I reading it wrong?
Terrain Dominance kicks in at 3rd level.
Terrain Dominance gives favored enemy, which gives BAB & Damage.
Master of All Lands just lets you get it for every terrain.
If your campaign focuses on a single terrain, you don't need Master of All Lands.
Add in Boots of Friendly Terrain, and you can add an extra terrain.
Add in the Rogue Talent Terrain Mastery, and you get an extra terrain and all previous ones get +2.
/cevah