As I recall, the Girdle of Opposite Gender changes your gender instantly and then becomes non-magical -- removing it is not an issue, but reversing the change is. So the only way to profit from this item is to identify it properly before you trigger it. It then becomes a sellable one use item if you can find somebody who wants to be transformed that way.
But then there is that nasty clause about what happens if you roll a natural 1 on the save. Do people who wish they were completely neuter and sexless even exist?
The girdle is about making you something you are not.... What if for trans people it either did nothing or made you look more masculine or feminine than before. Then the item still retains it's curse.
Also note you are wearing something you can't take off.... It's going to get crusty, smelly, blood and gore splattered, and you are going to be made to walk down wind of the party.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I just double checked -- I was right that you can remove the girdle after it transforms you, but wrong that it becomes non-magical afterwards. It looks like any particular Girdle of Opposite Gender can transform any creature once -- so you can still sell it to somebody else.
Actually, if these items are plentiful enough, the best option for somebody who was transformed by this item to locate somebody else who was similarly transformed and then trade girdles with them. Then you can go looking for a transgender NPC who actually wants a sex change.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Double standard equals bad. Either everybody gets to use it, or nobody does.
Since someone else already linked Carlin, I'll just add along the same lines that calling something a double standard doesn't mean it is wrong.
It's suggestive as hell... but it's not proof.
|
But then there is that nasty clause about what happens if you roll a natural 1 on the save. Do people who wish they were completely neuter and sexless even exist?
In our world, yes there are agendered people.
A use in Galorion might be good for worshipers of certain deities, where this whole silly gender thing gets in the way.
Here's a question, some Arsuraspawn tieflings are hermaphroditic, what does a GoOG do to then?
Here's a question, some Arsuraspawn tieflings are hermaphroditic, what does a GoOG do to then?
If you're true Neutral, a helm of opposite alignment picks one of the 'four corners' alignments for you. So, following that, flip a coin, that's the new gender.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
are we really arguing that any cursed item with an effect that SOMEONE might like even if most people wouldn't is offensive? so a cursed item that causes your clothing to burst into flames spontaneously is offensive because some people are masochistic pyromaniacal exhibitionists? this is ludicrous... especially considering the mechanical reasons it's "cursed".We're arguing because there are gamers that are so sensitive to thier personal gender identity that if their characters are switched, say male to female without their consent, they will feel that it is an attack on their manliness... in other words... classic Homophobia. If your players are homophobes, and many are... simply don't put this cursed item on your GM plate. Problem solved. Not the problem of homophobia, but that something best addressed in a different venue.
Goodness, what a ridiculous assertion. I'm gay myself, and I would certainly consider the application of this item on my characters a curse, and a bad thing - because it was *inflicted* upon them. Had I had a choice in it, I most likely would have declined, because my characters don't need a body of a different kind than they carry around, but that's essentially besides the point. The item is cursed because it forces you into a situation, not because the effect is detrimental (although it may well be, if not to everyone). A hat that permanently turns you into a strawberry blonde would be just as cursed.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I can't like your post enough, Tanith - thank you
are we really arguing that any cursed item with an effect that SOMEONE might like even if most people wouldn't is offensive? so a cursed item that causes your clothing to burst into flames spontaneously is offensive because some people are masochistic pyromaniacal exhibitionists? this is ludicrous... especially considering the mechanical reasons it's "cursed".We're arguing because there are gamers that are so sensitive to thier personal gender identity that if their characters are switched, say male to female without their consent, they will feel that it is an attack on their manliness... in other words... classic Homophobia. If your players are homophobes, and many are... simply don't put this cursed item on your GM plate. Problem solved. Not the problem of homophobia, but that something best addressed in a different venue.
Wow. Just wow.
...A hat that permanently turns you into a strawberry blonde would be just as cursed.
Only if it unknotted up my dredlocks in the process. :)
Beyond that, it sounds more like a bottle of hair dye. Is that cursed?
|
|
Lots of bad things happen to characters. Most of them however are things that players aren't going to take PERSONAL offense over. Gender and sexuality however, are one of those hot button issues especially with players who are sensitive with them. Should a GM use this item? Like putting any cursed item that can radically change either players or the course of a campaign, like the Deck of Many Things, it should be done only after careful consideration of it's impact.Goodness, what a ridiculous assertion. I'm gay myself, and I would certainly consider the application of this item on my characters a curse, and a bad thing - because it was *inflicted* upon them. Had I had a choice in it, I most likely would have declined, because my characters don't need a body of a different kind than they carry around, but that's essentially besides the point. The item is cursed because it forces you into a situation, not because the effect is detrimental (although it may well be, if not to everyone). A hat that permanently turns you into a strawberry blonde would be just as cursed.are we really arguing that any cursed item with an effect that SOMEONE might like even if most people wouldn't is offensive? so a cursed item that causes your clothing to burst into flames spontaneously is offensive because some people are masochistic pyromaniacal exhibitionists? this is ludicrous... especially considering the mechanical reasons it's "cursed".We're arguing because there are gamers that are so sensitive to thier personal gender identity that if their characters are switched, say male to female without their consent, they will feel that it is an attack on their manliness... in other words... classic Homophobia. If your players are homophobes, and many are... simply don't put this cursed item on your GM plate. Problem solved. Not the problem of homophobia, but that something best addressed in a different venue.
Truly, it's "cursed" not only because of the unintended effects on the character, but also the possibility of the unintended effects on the players. Dropping this item on them without their consent should only be done after careful consideration of all parties at the table.
I was wondering if the Girdle of Opposite Gender was offensive to transgender players, as it is officially listed as a "cursed" item. Think about the implications. Couldn't Paizo be considered to be insensitive to the TG community in its official consideration of this item as "cursed"?
Just pointing out that a girdle of opposite gender might go a long way towards getting people to know what it's like to be transgendered for a while. :P
That said, there are many cursed items that are seen as a boon to some people. For example, the berserking swords are prized by some more solitary warriors. :)
...A hat that permanently turns you into a strawberry blonde would be just as cursed.Only if it unknotted up my dredlocks in the process. :)
Beyond that, it sounds more like a bottle of hair dye. Is that cursed?
If it changes our hair color forcibly and permanently, until a Remove Curse spell is used? Yes.
are we really arguing that any cursed item with an effect that SOMEONE might like even if most people wouldn't is offensive? so a cursed item that causes your clothing to burst into flames spontaneously is offensive because some people are masochistic pyromaniacal exhibitionists? this is ludicrous... especially considering the mechanical reasons it's "cursed".If you want to be cool and edgy and go around crowing, "I do what I want, I don't care who it hurts, you can't make me," there is nothing anyone can do about your choice to act like that...
You have the right to decide that you are too cool for school and you can use any words you want.
Being a jerk is not cool. Please try not to be one, to the best of your ability. We are all coming from different backgrounds and experiences playing this game, and if we are willing to take just a little time to ask questions and to better understand one another, we will all have a lot more fun together.
saying that people who have a different opinion from yours are trying "to be cool and edgy" or think they are "too cool for school" sounds pretty jerkish to me... not cool, bro. maybe i'm right and you're just being a tool, but i don't call you one.
the fact is that there's nothing wrong with this item except that it's slightly improperly named. it should, as someone else has already pointed out, be called "Girdle of Opposite Sex", but it's also from a setting that somewhat resembles a time in human history when the language didn't make this particular distinction because it wasn't generally understood (and to be fair probably isn't today) that there is one. anyway, this is in all likelihood unintentional and, for that reason, not a good reason to be offended.
i'm plenty of minorities. i've been discriminated against and had slurs spouted at me by ignorant people. it sucks and hurts a lot when someone is obviously trying to offend you (it also tends to make you angry despite yourself). sometimes, though, people aren't trying to offend you. it's usually pretty obvious when people are being malicious, so i'd say it's a safe bet you know when they aren't most of the time. when you don't, taking a moment to look into the matter and consider things from all points of view rather than prioritizing minority view points or just your own would reveal that it's a curse because it's something that is done to the wearer under the pretense that it will have another effect and is not optional or easily reversible. additionally, you would recognize (as someone pointed out on the first page seemed to be the consensus among the community though of course no community is a homogeneous body and not everyone agreed) that you consider your own situation, that of being trapped in a body that feels wrong, to be a curse, so an object that tricked someone into switching sexes (thus inflicting the same sex-gender mismatch "curse" on ~95% of the population) would reasonably be considered a cursed item. alternatively, if it was an item that obviously reassigned your sex (and didn't lie to you when you spellcrafted it) and was easily reversible would not rightly be called cursed. realizing these things, you would conclude that you were rash in taking offense and can relax.
OR you can live your life expecting that it's everyone else's job to make sure you're not offended even unintentionally and likely be miserable. that's a choice some people make and they're free to it, but other people are free to not care that you take offense to things that aren't intentionally offensive.
...
Having your brain's physical structure not correlate with the rest of your body is not fun...
I am still catching up on what all has been said, however this required a response.
There is not a physical brain difference that is causing this.
There are no personality traits that have gender. The only gender difference that applies to the mind is sexual orientation. Everything else about the mind is gender neutral.
However, we are also made to mostly, but not entirely, conform to a culture, and it is common for a culture to identify certain traits with certain genders even when such traits have no biological basis.
In particular to this thread, some individuals find themselves with personality traits that the culture tells them is not for their gender. It is natural (though not always correct) to believe that the majority (whom we call "everyone") must be correct, so natural that it can be hard to feel otherwise even when one understands this intellectually, thus people see themselves in a meesed up light. They have desires and tastes that are biologically normal but are culturally wrong, and when it comes to psychology, the culture usually wins. This result in people who feel like they are wrong because their self view conflicts with the culture, and the subconcious reinforces this through the confirmation bias (which means that your subconcious will always try to prove you correct rather then admit to being wrong. The subconcious hates being wrong more then even cognitive dissonence.)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
...A hat that permanently turns you into a strawberry blonde would be just as cursed.Only if it unknotted up my dredlocks in the process. :)
Beyond that, it sounds more like a bottle of hair dye. Is that cursed?
If it happened to my wife, she'd think so. She seriously has a thing about not wanting her hair any shade whatsoever of red!
That aside, the girdle -- like any object or situation -- may be insulting or a problem to your particular group. I'm iffy on some of the legacy cursed items and tend to not throw them into the game on general principle. It seldom has led to anything worthwhile and isn't worth the hassles, even more so when you factor in that someone might be genuinely upset by it. This is less common when you play with a group where you are aware of triggers and whatnot, but it seems even less worthwhile when you are playing with people you are not familiar with.
| 10 people marked this as a favorite. |
There is not a physical brain difference that is causing this.There are no personality traits that have gender. The only gender difference that applies to the mind is sexual orientation. Everything else about the mind is gender neutral.
However, we are also made to mostly, but not entirely, conform to a culture, and it is common for a culture to identify certain traits with certain genders even when such traits have no biological basis.
In particular to this thread, some individuals find themselves with personality traits that the culture tells them is not for their gender. It is natural (though not always correct) to believe that the majority (whom we call "everyone") must be correct, so natural that it can be hard to feel otherwise even when one understands this intellectually, thus people see themselves in a meesed up light. They have desires and tastes that are biologically normal but are culturally wrong, and when it comes to psychology, the culture usually wins. This result in people who feel like they are wrong because their self view conflicts with the culture, and the subconcious reinforces this through the confirmation bias (which means that your subconcious will always try to prove you correct rather then admit to being wrong. The subconcious hates being wrong more then even cognitive dissonence.)
You're perfectly welcome to your opinion, but that's completely and utterly wrong as far as modern biology is concerned.
While we're still teasing down the specifics, there very much is a biological basis for internal gender identity and gender dysphoria. The idea that "culture" is behind gender dysphoria is rather insulting and dismissive of trans* persons.
|
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
I am a transsexual player, and no I don't find this item to be offensive. I think it's rather amusing.
Somebody mentioned earlier that gender swapping is a common SciFi/Fantasy trope, and it is. How it is handled in Pathfinder largely depends on your group. For some groups, this is roleplay gold, and they can have a lot of fun with it. For others, it's just an excuse to humiliate your players and make a bunch of sexist jokes. I'd feel pretty uncomfortable in a group like that, but then I find racial stereotypes pretty irksome in roleplaying games too.
Having said all that, I wouldn't want to encounter one in the game, and I would probably try to get rid of it right away. Gender transition was a long and painful process for me and not something I'd care to play out again. I also wouldn't want to feel that the DM may have singled me out for this or tried to make light of what I've gone through.
|
To be sure, I don't begrudge those that are having trouble with their own self worth and being, but the overall feeling of disconnection isn't something that I would find would warrant such an extreme change.
The first thing anyone that has issues of this sort should do, be it being a little girl in a big man's body or someone that feels disconnected from the world around them, is get help. Talk, find a professional that can counsel and appraise, and don't go at it alone.
I suffered through a depression when I was in the Navy, and I was lucky, because I was ordered to see someone and they set me straight. My overall view on this is somewhat abrasive, as I think some of the field of this area are actually encouraging the wrong ideal and have faulty premises for some things that seem to be regarded as solid science.
Now, the girdle in my games have had some pretty intense reactions when discovered. My friend had put one one in a PFS game (Yes, there is a scenario out there with one... Bwaaa ha ha ha) and boy, was she hot... err, I mean bothered... well, he paid to have it removed eventually.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
are we really arguing that any cursed item with an effect that SOMEONE might like even if most people wouldn't is offensive? so a cursed item that causes your clothing to burst into flames spontaneously is offensive because some people are masochistic pyromaniacal exhibitionists? this is ludicrous... especially considering the mechanical reasons it's "cursed".We're arguing because there are gamers that are so sensitive to thier personal gender identity that if their characters are switched, say male to female without their consent, they will feel that it is an attack on their manliness... in other words... classic Homophobia. If your players are homophobes, and many are... simply don't put this cursed item on your GM plate. Problem solved. Not the problem of homophobia, but that something best addressed in a different venue.
I wouldn't call it homophobia. I'm a gay male and if this item happened to one of my characters I too might be upset too.
It's not necessarily that the girdle interferes with the player's own gender identity - although that's certainly possible! - but it's also a severe change to the PC.
Many people identify closely with their PC. The rest of the game world may be a savage, dark place, subject to the caprice of the GM, but we cherish our characters. If something suddenly inflicts a lasting deformity on a character - varying from actual maiming to things like being turned into a different race or sex - that can cause the player to feel like the PC has been violated. It hits pretty close to home.
Not that this happens every time with everyone. But the Girdle is treading in dangerous territory. One player may laugh, another may cry.
...A hat that permanently turns you into a strawberry blonde would be just as cursed.Only if it unknotted up my dredlocks in the process. :)
Beyond that, it sounds more like a bottle of hair dye. Is that cursed?
Only if it doesn't ask for your consent before changing the color of your hair. This is a very minor curse but still . The part about consent is what is important, if the hat allows you to change your hair color at will it is a magic item, if it inflict the hair color without consent on the character part, it is necessarily something bad. (Note here how the argument was made that some curses can be turned into positive thing, it is always after the decision to use the item was made by the person beforehand.)
If I was to use a cursed item like this as a GM I would talk about it with the player beforehand to be absolutely sure the player is ok with it.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
...A hat that permanently turns you into a strawberry blonde would be just as cursed.Only if it unknotted up my dredlocks in the process. :)
Beyond that, it sounds more like a bottle of hair dye. Is that cursed?
Only if it doesn't ask for your consent before changing the color of your hair. This is a very minor curse but still . The part about consent is what is important, if the hat allows you to change your hair color at will it is a magic item, if it inflict the hair color without consent on the character part, it is necessarily something bad. (Note here how the argument was made that some curses can be turned into positive thing, it is always after the decision to use the item was made by the person beforehand.)
If I was to use a cursed item like this as a GM I would talk about it with the player beforehand to be absolutely sure the player is ok with it.
So it's a bottle of hair dye labeled "shampoo". :) Gotcha.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
There is not a physical brain difference that is causing this.There are no personality traits that have gender. The only gender difference that applies to the mind is sexual orientation. Everything else about the mind is gender neutral.
However, we are also made to mostly, but not entirely, conform to a culture, and it is common for a culture to identify certain traits with certain genders even when such traits have no biological basis.
In particular to this thread, some individuals find themselves with personality traits that the culture tells them is not for their gender. It is natural (though not always correct) to believe that the majority (whom we call "everyone") must be correct, so natural that it can be hard to feel otherwise even when one understands this intellectually, thus people see themselves in a meesed up light. They have desires and tastes that are biologically normal but are culturally wrong, and when it comes to psychology, the culture usually wins. This result in people who feel like they are wrong because their self view conflicts with the culture, and the subconcious reinforces this through the confirmation bias (which means that your subconcious will always try to prove you correct rather then admit to being wrong. The subconcious hates being wrong more then even cognitive dissonence.)
You're perfectly welcome to your opinion, but that's completely and utterly wrong as far as modern biology is concerned.
While we're still teasing down the specifics, there very much is a biological basis for internal gender identity and gender dysphoria. The idea that "culture" is behind gender dysphoria is rather insulting and dismissive of trans* persons.
I am in psychology rather then biology, and I was talking about personality traits. Whatever so-called physical differences you believe there to be (regardless of whether the differences exist or not) they do not affect the personality. The self identification as one gender regardless of physical gender is a personality trait, thus affected by culture not biology.
|
|
| 9 people marked this as a favorite. |
I am in psychology rather then biology, and I was talking about personality traits. Whatever so-called physical differences you believe there to be (regardless of whether the differences exist or not) they do not affect the personality. The self identification as one gender regardless of physical gender is a personality trait, thus affected by culture not biology.
As a Psych Major...this is complete crap. A lot of our personality traits have a biological basis, especially in brain structure and chemistry. Hell, the entire area of evolutionary psychology is based on the idea of biological roots for most of our behavior. And the entire field of psychiatry is likewise biologically based. Hell, without a biological basis to behavior, how are psychiatric medications supposed to work? Magic?
I'm honestly dumbfounded that someone with a serious psychology background of any sort would make this kind of wrong-headed assertion. It's on-par with a biologist denying evolution.
All current scientific research indicates gender identity in general definitively has biological root causes. Denying that is not any kind of science.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I am in psychology rather then biology, and I was talking about personality traits. Whatever so-called physical differences you believe there to be (regardless of whether the differences exist or not) they do not affect the personality. The self...
There is not a physical brain difference that is causing this.There are no personality traits that have gender. The only gender difference that applies to the mind is sexual orientation. Everything else about the mind is gender neutral.
However, we are also made to mostly, but not entirely, conform to a culture, and it is common for a culture to identify certain traits with certain genders even when such traits have no biological basis.
In particular to this thread, some individuals find themselves with personality traits that the culture tells them is not for their gender. It is natural (though not always correct) to believe that the majority (whom we call "everyone") must be correct, so natural that it can be hard to feel otherwise even when one understands this intellectually, thus people see themselves in a meesed up light. They have desires and tastes that are biologically normal but are culturally wrong, and when it comes to psychology, the culture usually wins. This result in people who feel like they are wrong because their self view conflicts with the culture, and the subconcious reinforces this through the confirmation bias (which means that your subconcious will always try to prove you correct rather then admit to being wrong. The subconcious hates being wrong more then even cognitive dissonence.)
You're perfectly welcome to your opinion, but that's completely and utterly wrong as far as modern biology is concerned.
While we're still teasing down the specifics, there very much is a biological basis for internal gender identity and gender dysphoria. The idea that "culture" is behind gender dysphoria is rather insulting and dismissive of trans* persons.
You might just want to read this article. This paragraph in particular.
However, in both studies, Wood and colleagues added another test that reminds us to be cautious when interpreting any finding about sex differences in the brain. Instead of simply dividing their subjects by biological sex, they also gave each subject a test of psychological “gender:” a questionnaire that assesses each person’s degree of masculinity vs. femininity—regardless of their biological sex—based on their interests, abilities and personality type. And in both adults and children, this measure of “gender” also correlated with SG size, albeit in just as complicated a way as the correlation between “sex” and SG size. (Larger SG correlated with more feminine personality in adults but less feminine personality in children.)
In other words, there does seem to be a relationship between SG size and social perception, but it is not a simple male-female difference. Rather, the SG appears to reflect a person’s “femininity” better than one’s biological sex: women who are relatively less feminine show a correspondingly smaller SG compared to women who are more feminine, and ditto for men.
And then catch up with modern science.
I am in psychology rather then biology, and I was talking about personality traits. Whatever so-called physical differences you believe there to be (regardless of whether the differences exist or not) they do not affect the personality. The self identification as one gender regardless of physical gender is a personality trait, thus affected by culture not biology.
This is incorrect. It has been seen that among men with female reproductive systems have different physiological brain structures than women with female reproductive systems.
Hell, the entire area of evolutionary psychology is based on the idea of biological roots for most of our behavior.
Well, it should be said though that there are few areas which are so full of crap pseudoscience as evolutionary psychology. I'm not saying everything there is crap but it seems just about anything can get published within that field, no matter how pseudoscientific...
All current scientific research indicates gender identity in general definitively has biological root causes. Denying that is not any kind of science.
Yes. And here it's important to note the difference between gender _identity_ and gender _roles_. Gender identity is what your gender is, gender role is what society expects of you because of it (and how power is distributed, important not to forget). It of course greatly affects your personality, but it's not the same thing as identity.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
My issue is that the Girdle of Opposite Gender is referred to as a "cursed" item. Transformation from one gender to the other is referred to as a curse, and for some people that's not a bug it's a feature.
I think the Girdle of Opposite Gender should just be a magic item. One that's relatively easy to make (Alter Self as a prerequisite). No mentions of curses.
It is a cursed item because the change is involuntary. In the same way, a magic item that made any change to a character against that character's will would be cursed... even if some would consider that change a good thing. Admittedly, a non-cursed version would be possible, and I can see such being used deliberately by some individuals.
Personally, I would never use such for any of my characters and if any of them were subjected to the effects, I would do my best to get it reversed. If I had wanted it that way, I would have made it that way to begin with... because when I make a character, I choose which gender I want that particular character to be and do not wish it changed (and I have both male and female characters).
I think that this is one of the great features of games like this, that the characters' gender (and gender identity) is determined by the players themselves, so a character would only be trans-gendered if the player actually wished it to be.
I will also add that I find this item less of an issue than I do the helm of opposite alignment. This item only affects the character's physical form, the helm affects the character mentally... and regardless of what is done to my characters' physical bodies, what makes them mine is what goes on inside their heads.
|
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Well, it should be said though that there are few areas which are so full of crap pseudoscience as evolutionary psychology. I'm not saying everything there is crap but it seems just about anything can get published within that field, no matter how pseudoscientific...
Well, yes, but that doesn't invalidate the whole idea of the field, it just means people are...not doing it right. And it may be worse in evolutionary psych, but that kind of thing crops up everywhere, in all scientific fields at least occasionally, and more often in the relatively soft sciences.
Yes. And here it's important to note the difference between gender _identity_ and gender _roles_. Gender identity is what your gender is, gender role is what society expects of you because of it (and how power is distributed, important not to forget). It of course greatly affects your personality, but it's not the same thing as identity.
+1
These two things are very different.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
So if this is so offensive to some, have there been any complaints about the witch class from those that are religious witches (wiccans)?
*shrug* Which I find somewhat odd, because the term existed well prior to Wicca being created in the early/mid 20th century - they just adopted the term for themselves. Now if the witch class referenced anything specific from wiccan theology and its various branches, then it might be something to be sensitive about perhaps. But as the word vastly predates wicca, I don't see it as much of a problem personally.
You might just want to read this article. This paragraph in particular.
Hmmm.. is it me or is this article overlooking the possibility that puberty and the ensuing hormone bath are causing the differences?
|
|
...I am in psychology rather then biology, and I was talking about personality traits. Whatever so-called physical differences you believe there to be (regardless of whether the differences exist or not) they do not affect
There is not a physical brain difference that is causing this.There are no personality traits that have gender. The only gender difference that applies to the mind is sexual orientation. Everything else about the mind is gender neutral.
However, we are also made to mostly, but not entirely, conform to a culture, and it is common for a culture to identify certain traits with certain genders even when such traits have no biological basis.
In particular to this thread, some individuals find themselves with personality traits that the culture tells them is not for their gender. It is natural (though not always correct) to believe that the majority (whom we call "everyone") must be correct, so natural that it can be hard to feel otherwise even when one understands this intellectually, thus people see themselves in a meesed up light. They have desires and tastes that are biologically normal but are culturally wrong, and when it comes to psychology, the culture usually wins. This result in people who feel like they are wrong because their self view conflicts with the culture, and the subconcious reinforces this through the confirmation bias (which means that your subconcious will always try to prove you correct rather then admit to being wrong. The subconcious hates being wrong more then even cognitive dissonence.)
You're perfectly welcome to your opinion, but that's completely and utterly wrong as far as modern biology is concerned.
While we're still teasing down the specifics, there very much is a biological basis for internal gender identity and gender dysphoria. The idea that "culture" is behind gender dysphoria is rather insulting and dismissive of trans* persons.
Thank you for this...
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
So if this is so offensive to some, have there been any complaints about the witch class from those that are religious witches (wiccans)?
Which must perforce beg the question...
Did any non-Latin speakers feel personally affronted when the Barbarian class was announced?
Perhaps there was some feeling of persecution among Catholics when the Inquisitor hit the shelves?
Dissension in the ranks of the Special Forces at such a heinous misuse of the Ranger appellation?
Protestations of maltreatment among Christians when the Cleric burst so rudely upon the scene?
Riotous accusations of slander among the descendents of Charlemagnes court at the inclusion of Paladins?
No? How odd.
I played in a game where one member of the party used gender-randomising spells to torture an NPC.
So if this is so offensive to some, have there been any complaints about the witch class from those that are religious witches (wiccans)?Which must perforce beg the question...
Did any non-Latin speakers feel personally affronted when the Barbarian class was announced?
Perhaps there was some feeling of persecution among Catholics when the Inquisitor hit the shelves?
Dissension in the ranks of the Special Forces at such a heinous misuse of the Ranger appellation?
Protestations of maltreatment among Christians when the Cleric burst so rudely upon the scene?
Riotous accusations of slander among the descendents of Charlemagnes court at the inclusion of Paladins?
No? How odd.
Ranger predates the modern military use, and calling a member of the Special Forces (Green Berets) a Ranger would be an insult to them.
You might just want to read this article. This paragraph in particular.Hmmm.. is it me or is this article overlooking the possibility that puberty and the ensuing hormone bath are causing the differences?
They tested adults, and children ages 7 to 17, and seemed to take into account the changes made in the brain due to puberty. It also said that the results were consistent for both children and adults.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I am in psychology rather then biology, and I was talking about personality traits. Whatever so-called physical differences you believe there to be (regardless of whether the differences exist or not) they do not affect the personality. The self identification as one gender regardless of physical gender is a personality trait, thus affected by culture not biology.As a Psych Major...this is complete crap. A lot of our personality traits have a biological basis, especially in brain structure and chemistry. Hell, the entire area of evolutionary psychology is based on the idea of biological roots for most of our behavior. And the entire field of psychiatry is likewise biologically based. Hell, without a biological basis to behavior, how are psychiatric medications supposed to work? Magic?
I'm honestly dumbfounded that someone with a serious psychology background of any sort would make this kind of wrong-headed assertion. It's on-par with a biologist denying evolution.
All current scientific research indicates gender identity in general definitively has biological root causes. Denying that is not any kind of science.
First, there is a difference between a trait having a biologicol basis and a trait being associated with a gender based on biology. Additionally, both of those concepts are completely different from saying that a trait, or the gender of a trait, is based on specific physiological differences in the brain.
Even more, the brain may be similar between all humans, but the brain is so mallable that it is unique for each individual, thus it is foolhardy to claim that noted differences are definately caused by or cause certain other things. Violence and ice cream comes to mind here.
Additionally, no such results should be taken as true anyway as biases or experiment flaws can lead to skewed results, however such errors are more likely to result in the appearence of a causal relationship then a lack of such relationship.
Oh, and feeling emotions is different then feeling other types of things, such as a gut instinct type feeling, or cognitive dissonence type feeling, etc.
And like stated by someone else above, gender identity and gender roles are different.
These are all subtleties, and if you cant sort between such subtle differences then you need a simpler line of work type job.
They tested adults, and children ages 7 to 17, and seemed to take into account the changes made in the brain due to puberty. It also said that the results were consistent for both children and adults.You might just want to read this article. This paragraph in particular.Hmmm.. is it me or is this article overlooking the possibility that puberty and the ensuing hormone bath are causing the differences?
The results flipped between children and adults.
(Larger SG correlated with more feminine personality in adults but less feminine personality in children.)
This part didn't seem to follow. They're claiming nurture is responsible for the change in morphology, but I don't see how they're eliminating puberty as a possibility.
Individuals’ gender traits—their preference for masculine or feminine clothes, ... must be molded—at least to some degree—by the sum of their experiences as a boy or girl.
If what they're saying is true then boys should be girlier than girls but that's not the case. Perhaps there's something next to the SG thats causing it...
Ranger predates the modern military use, and calling a member of the Special Forces (Green Berets) a Ranger would be an insult to them.So if this is so offensive to some, have there been any complaints about the witch class from those that are religious witches (wiccans)?Which must perforce beg the question...
Did any non-Latin speakers feel personally affronted when the Barbarian class was announced?
Perhaps there was some feeling of persecution among Catholics when the Inquisitor hit the shelves?
Dissension in the ranks of the Special Forces at such a heinous misuse of the Ranger appellation?
Protestations of maltreatment among Christians when the Cleric burst so rudely upon the scene?
Riotous accusations of slander among the descendents of Charlemagnes court at the inclusion of Paladins?
No? How odd.
All of those terms predate the modern usage, which is the entire point. Fortunately the angry men with the wide-brimmed hats taught us to recognize the distinction between the two groups by the color of their berets. None of either group that I interacted with seemed seemed like the type of people to be 'insulted' by something so trivial as leaving the word 'operations' out of the phrase 'special operations forces'.
Anyone else you'd like to feel offended for, or can we knock it off now?
The game considers the girdle as a "cursed item" because having your body transformed against your will is a hostile magical effect. Even if you would welcome the change, it's still hostile because it does so without your consent. By definition, this is a cursed item. It has nothing to do with perceptions about gender identity. I have many TG friends, and they all love this item.
Honestly, I grow really irritated when people look too deeply into things to find offenses to transgenderism (or anything else). It stresses out people who truly care about political correctness, and desensitizes everyone else to legitimate concerns.
These are all subtleties, and if you cant sort between such subtle differences then you need a simpler line of work type job.
Didn't you mistake chainsaws and lawn mowers for a mysterious tree die off?