Questions About Call Lightning, Hexes etc

[Kymvaris]

Okay so in my most recent session of Reign of Winter, my Druid decided to cast Call Lightning, as below.

Call Lightning:

School evocation [electricity]; Level druid 3; Domain catastrophe 3, weather 3

CASTING
Casting Time 1 round
Components V, S

EFFECT
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect one or more 30-ft.-long vertical lines of lightning
Duration 1 min./level
Saving Throw Reflex half; Spell Resistance yes

DESCRIPTION
Immediately upon completion of the spell, and once per round thereafter, you may call down a 5-foot-wide, 30-foot-long, vertical bolt of lightning that deals 3d6 points of electricity damage. The bolt of lightning flashes down in a vertical stroke at whatever target point you choose within the spell's range (measured from your position at the time). Any creature in the target square or in the path of the bolt is affected.

You need not call a bolt of lightning immediately; other actions, even spellcasting, can be performed first. Each round after the first you may use a standard action (concentrating on the spell) to call a bolt. You may call a total number of bolts equal to your caster level (maximum 10 bolts).

If you are outdoors and in a stormy area - a rain shower, clouds and wind, hot and cloudy conditions, or even a tornado (including a whirlwind formed by a djinni or an air elemental of at least Large size) - each bolt deals 3d10 points of electricity damage instead of 3d6.

This spell functions indoors or underground but not underwater.

I have 2 questions related to this spell and situation specifically, but would also like insight into the general rules related to this sort of thing.

In Combat, this was how things happened:

• Round 1: Druid casts Call Lightning
  
• Round 1: Voice gets stolen by Attic Whisperer (basically no spells with verbal components)
  
• Round 2: Druid tries to activate Call Lightning to bring a lightning bolt down (this technically has a verbal component in my opinion because it's part of the spell, etc) and I, as DM, let him do it because when I am unsure of something I always rule in favor of the players and then look it up (or ask you guys after the fact)
  
• Round 2: Dragon knocks Druid unconcious
  
• Round 4: Rogue heals Druid with CMW potion
  
• Round 5: Druid stands up and attempts to Call Lightning, I say that this time it doesn't work because he fell unconcious. I know that other spells dissipate when the source of the spell falls unconcious.
  

Did I rule correctly on Call Lightning when the druid had no voice?
Did I rule correctly on Call Lightning after the druid became concious and stood up?

Furthermore: When a witch dies, do the effects of her hexes end immediately or at their normal end time? (She can't cackle and extend it anymore.)

After every session I run, I always have a lot of questions about specifics. Thanks, Paizo Community for helping clear them up!

-Kym

[Drakkiel]

If it were still round 1 when the voice was stolen I would have to go with he could not complete the spell...1 round casting time means you are doing nothing but casting from that point until just before your next turn...I will quote the part that gets me to that ruling...but I could very well be wrong (someone will definitely point that out if I am)

Quote:

When you begin a spell that takes 1 round or longer to cast, you must continue the concentration from the current round to just before your turn in the next round (at least). If you lose concentration before the casting is complete, you lose the spell.

For the second one I'm not sure...I think I remember reading something about spell effects ending once the target is no longer valid...but that usually means the target died...ill see what I can find

[Kymvaris]

Drakkiel wrote:

If it were still round 1 when the voice was stolen I would have to go with he could not complete the spell...1 round casting time means you are doing nothing but casting from that point until just before your next turn...I will quote the part that gets me to that ruling...but I could very well be wrong (someone will definitely point that out if I am)

Quote:

When you begin a spell that takes 1 round or longer to cast, you must continue the concentration from the current round to just before your turn in the next round (at least). If you lose concentration before the casting is complete, you lose the spell.

For the second one I'm not sure...I think I remember reading something about spell effects ending once the target is no longer valid...but that usually means the target died...ill see what I can find

Thanks for looking deeper into this. I really appreciate it! I agree with you, though it's frustrating to my players!

How would you rule if his voice got stolen on round 2 or 3, after the casting of the spell had been completed but before all lightning bolts could be called. Can he "call" a lightning bolt without being able to talk?

[meowstef]

after the spell has been cast there is no mention of what is needed to target the lightning so voice not needed

as for being knocked unconscious unless a spell mention otherwise or requires concentration it keeps running (some arguments about target no longer valid can come up if target dies but that does not apply here)

So when the druid wakes up check if the duration has expired if not they can still use the spell

same is true of hexes unless they need concentration

[Kymvaris]

meowstef wrote:

after the spell has been cast there is no mention of what is needed to target the lightning so voice not needed

I appreciate your input, but by this logic you could be unconscious and target the lightning because it doesn't say you can't. Do you know any rules that further back this up? Even for other, similar spells. Because the dictionary defines call as "to cry out in a loud voice", and while that may be playing the semantics game, the spell does specifically say

Call Lightning Description wrote:

Immediately upon completion of the spell, and once per round thereafter, you may call down a 5-foot-wide, 30-foot-long, vertical bolt of lightning that deals 3d6 points of electricity damage.

meowstef wrote:

as for being knocked unconscious unless a spell mention otherwise or requires concentration it keeps running (some arguments about target no longer valid can come up if target dies but that does not apply here)

So when the druid wakes up check if the duration has expired if not they can still use the spell

same is true of hexes unless they need concentration

So when a witch dies, everything by her hexes are still affected until their duration expires? Makes sense, would like a rules quote if you have one. Thanks. (:

[Zwordsman]

Dead it would end. Unconcious I think if still in duration you'd get to use it. Dead and unconsciousness is a bit different. I think he could still call. and if he casted then was silence i think he could still call it down. I kinda assume it's like storm she just kinda thinks "that one".

I can't think of any real rules pertaining to it, thats just my gut feeling on how magic in that world typically works

[Drakkiel]

I agree here...failing to find anything that explicitly says otherwise I'd go with the spell works for the intended duration...and while casting of the spell needs verbal components using the word "call" from the spell description to mean you have to speak is kind of harsh IMO

Best option...direct your players here and see what they can agree on with you.

[Vod Canockers]

Magic Rules wrote:

Duration

A spell's duration entry tells you how long the magical energy of the spell lasts.

Timed Durations: Many durations are measured in rounds, minutes, hours, or other increments. When the time is up, the magic goes away and the spell ends. If a spell's duration is variable, the duration is rolled secretly so the caster doesn't know how long the spell will last.

Instantaneous: The spell energy comes and goes the instant the spell is cast, though the consequences might be long-lasting.

Permanent: The energy remains as long as the effect does. This means the spell is vulnerable to dispel magic.

Concentration: The spell lasts as long as you concentrate on it. Concentrating to maintain a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Anything that could break your concentration when casting a spell can also break your concentration while you're maintaining one, causing the spell to end. See concentration.

You can't cast a spell while concentrating on another one. Some spells last for a short time after you cease concentrating.

While there is nothing there about what happens when a caster dies or goes unconscious. That first line mentions how long the magical energy lasts. I would say that the spell or hex lasts however long the duration is irregardless the condition of the caster.

The ability of an unconscious character to act falls under the "RAW doesn't say dead characters can't act rule." If you are unconscious you can't act.

I would say that you would still need to be able to speak to call more bolts. I have no ruling, but that would be my ruling.

[Brf]

Kymvaris wrote:

I appreciate your input, but by this logic you could be unconscious and target the lightning because it doesn't say you can't.

Yes it does:

Call Lightning wrote:

Each round after the first you may use a standard action (concentrating on the spell) to call a bolt.

You cannot use a standard action to call the lightning if you are unconscious.

There is no verbal component to Concentrating on a spell, so you could do that while muted.

[Darthslash]

Drakkiel is correct about the spell failing once his voice was stolen. That's the big danger with 1 round cast spells.

As far as calling the lighting goes... the spell doesn't specifically say what he has to do to call down the pain. So I would allow any type of targeting. Anything from using voice, to pointing, to just thinking "I want that guy to get hit now"

But the spell would continue to work after he got woken up. Especially since the spell says he can do other things while the spell is active.