Power Level for PFS


Pathfinder Society

101 to 150 of 239 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>
Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Walter Sheppard wrote:
I keep seeing this thread and think that people are asking for nightmare or hell runs in exchange for forges or something.... darn you Diablo 2.

You have no idea how much I would love it if all scenarios had different difficulty settings. >_> Waking Rune on Hell mode? Yes please.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
nosig wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Nosig, not every player has multiple characters at every tier to have the choice of a combat specialist a, a face and a healer.
Lol... I am trying to resist the flippant response... something like "why not" or "like some PCs only have one weapon?"

Because you don't need to have been in PFS for a year to have multiple weapons. Some people (the ones MOST likely to look for advice like this) only have the one character, or have a few characters and none of them have made the break into the 7-11s. By the time someone can hide behind the pile of dead bards they already know the answer to this question.

Quote:
But that is the point of this thread right? to try to figure out what the "power level" requirements for ALL PCs is - what is the minimum to hit, AC, etc. that ALL PCs have to have?
Your assumption though is that you can be happy sitting at the minimum. That strategy is dangerous if you sit at a table where EVERYONE is doing the same thing. If you're playing through for the first time/going to the higher levels for the first time this is incredibly dangeous and you don't have an escape clause in the form of a back up character because its your first time playing at those levels.

Actually, yes. Theoretically if you have a 4 player party where everyone meets the bar, each player will defeat 1/4th of each encounter and you'll never have problems. In my experience your 4 player group has one player that towers over the bar, two players that meet it, and one player that cant even touch the bar rolling a nat 20 on his jump check. As long as you do average out to meeting or passing it, then you're fine (and most of the time you do). I don't like towering over it, because I want to let other players have their share of fun too.

That pile of bards was hilarious.

And I too would love if there was a normal mode/hard mode choice to playing scenarios.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Ferious Thune wrote:
@Nefreet: Doesn't a +18 against a 30 AC mean you hit on a 12 or better, or 45% of the time, not 60%? In case that affects your decisions. Or were you saying 60% of the time, at least one of your attacks will hit?

Moral of this story: Don't do math at 01:30 in the morning ;-)

Kal-Yik's attack bonus is often higher than +18, though. Going off the chart in the Bestiary assumes you're going solo, but he's only done that once in his career, and it got him killed.

He uses his Ring of Invisibility to set up flanks and full-round Sneak Attacks. He also has Step Up and Strike if someone tries to reposition. When flanking he's at +4 to-hit, and he can even Sneak Attack targets with Concealment.

Granted, elementals and oozes are still his bane, and he learned a nasty lesson fighting a Remorhaz, once. But I'd say for the most part he's been very effective in combat, and he's my favorite character to roleplay.

(though I do keep 32pp on hand just in case of emergencies!)

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northwest aka WalterGM

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Walter Sheppard wrote:
Good thing he has that inherent 5% auto-succeed on saves that all characters do ;)
And that inherent 5% auto-fail too.

Doesn't matter what your +to Reflex is in that case too. So really, the low Reflex on Rukk only matters 90% of the time. That's like a 10% chance that it doesn't matter!

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northwest aka WalterGM

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I like doing this! Here's my level 8 gunslinger/inqusitor/shieldmarshal--Sir Knight Captain Thorne, Shieldmarshal of the Grand Dutchy of Alkenstar.

Quote:

Level 9

Attack Bonus +14
Average Attack Damage 33
AC 30
hp 72
Saving Throw Bonuses +8
Offensive Ability DC 24
High Skills +17

He was designed as a "middle-of-the-road" kind of guy (and an exercise in making a non-overpowered gunslinger). So hopefully at the end of this, he should fall right in the middle of everything.

Attack Bonus +11/+11/+6 to hit touch, or +9/+9/+4 with Deadly Aim. Since this is against touch most of the time, it's probably better than average(+)
Average Attack Damage 22.5 or 34.5 with Deadly Aim. Assuming all three attacks hit, of course. He also doesn't have a reliable weapon, so a lot of these iterative attacks go from musket to pepperbox, courtesy of Quick Draw, which would drop these damage numbers slightly. This is right on track with the damage a level 8 should be putting out (+)
AC 22. This is lowish for a level 8, but Thorne sticks to the back of the party, and has a high enough intiative that he can always get out of trouble before it starts. (-)
HP 77. Without Toughness, this number would be right on par for where a level 8 should be (+)
Saving Throw Bonuses +10/+11/+8. Slightly above average, due to the combination of two base classes. Thorne also gets to roll twice against mind-effecting and take the higher result (+)
Offensive Ability DC NA
High Skills +20 Perception, +20 Sense Motive. A cut above where he needs to be. The levels of shieldmarshal helps these numbers out, as does his high wisdom, a couple magic items, and sheer paranoia. He also has a dozen other skills that sit around the +8 to +15 range. (+)
Bottom Line Thorne is a lot of fun to play. I get to exercise my western drawl, as well as a healthy suscpicion of all the magic users in my party. He's always useful, both with skill checks or in combat, and I never feel like he outshines anyone else at the table. He also has the benefit of being very self-sufficient, thanks to the solid saves, HP, and initiative modifier. Overall I'd say I succeeded in making a non-overpowered character, as well as making a gunslinger-type toon that doesn't make GMs cringe.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Walter Sheppard wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Walter Sheppard wrote:
Good thing he has that inherent 5% auto-succeed on saves that all characters do ;)
And that inherent 5% auto-fail too.
Doesn't matter what your +to Reflex is in that case too. So really, the low Reflex on Rukk only matters 90% of the time. That's like a 10% chance that it doesn't matter!

heh. well that's one way of looking at it. I'd be more worried about the low will save myself. Failed reflex tends to just do damage, which you can take. Getting feared or dominated on the other hand...

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

Walter Sheppard wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Walter Sheppard wrote:
Good thing he has that inherent 5% auto-succeed on saves that all characters do ;)
And that inherent 5% auto-fail too.
Doesn't matter what your +to Reflex is in that case too. So really, the low Reflex on Rukk only matters 90% of the time. That's like a 10% chance that it doesn't matter!

I'm not really getting your point. I had already dismissed both since there is nothing to be done about it. (Although I do miss the 3.5 feat that allowed you to no longer fail Fort saves on natural 1s.)

Scarab Sages 4/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.
nosig wrote:

and we combine that with one of my "non-combat ready" PCs. I cast invisibility on my PC then each round after Rukk attacks I move next to him and use a wand of Vanish - giving things a 50% miss chance when they swing on him and each round he doesn't need to worry about AOOs when they have reach, he get's +2 to attack (invisible) and his first swing they don't get their dex to AC.

And we make Ruk shine even more!...

I don't see the thread as being numbers that every PC must have. It's more, if you've got a PC whose main contribution in Combat is to hit things, or to take hits from things, or to throw out Save based spells, here are the numbers you should shoot for to feel like you are accomplishing that. Your example character's schtick isn't hitting things. It appears to be buffing your allies, and that's fantastic. You shouldn't measure him by the same numbers as a combat character based around hitting things.

I only listed three of my 12 characters, because those are the three who are meant to be melee fighters. I don't expect them to dominate a melee, but it also gets frustrating when round after round you miss the enemy, and your character is supposed to be good at hitting things.

My Sorcerer, for example, throws up a Haste the first round of just about every combat. He'll cast Fly or Displacement on the melee fighters as needed, or Dimension Door them into better position. If none of those make sense, then he'll throw a blast spell. His schtick is versatility, so I don't expect him to blast as well as an optimized blaster or buff as well as an optimized buffer.

Look back at Jiggy's original post…

Jiggy wrote:

Have a look at the Monster Stats by CR table on this page.

Look at your level.

Imagine you're fighting a monster with a CR about 2 higher than your level (you almost always are).

Do you focus on making attack rolls? Look at the AC value, and make sure you're hitting more than half the time.

Spend a lot of time in melee? Look at the High Attack value, and make sure you're getting hit half the time or less (or look at the High Average Damage and make sure you're comfortable with how many rounds your HP will allow you to last).

Are you a save-based caster? Look at the Good/Poor save values and see how often a good save is succeeding and how often a poor save is succeeding.

Do you focus on damage (whether magical or weapon-based)? Look at the expected HP and see how many rounds it'll take you to take him out (remember to factor in some of the above about attack bonuses, save DCs, etc).

Don't neglect your own saves, either; look at the save DCs and see if you can make those saves (especially Fort and Will) more than half the time.

Basically, whatever you're doing, make sure you can do it successfully more often than not against a critter of CR+2.

In other words, find the thing you want your character to be able to do, and make sure you've got a decent chance of doing it. I don't see that philosophy as being in conflict with yours. If you want a character to be able to diplomacy their way out of a situation, you're going to make sure they have that +45 to diplomacy. If you want your character to be able to buff in combat without getting targeted, you make sure they can cast invisibility on themselves.

I want the three characters I listed to be able to hit things in combat and deal enough damage to not be ignored, so I'm looking at ways to fix them. I'm not doing that with my Bard, who is more about buffing the party and being prepared for contingencies (Saving Finale, Timely Inspiration in case his Inspire Courage is not up, stuff like that). He uses a bow as an afterthought, in case there's not a better option.

Yes, this thread is Combat focused. No, that doesn't mean we're saying every character must be a Combat focused character.

Does that make sense?

Shadow Lodge 4/5

^^ yeah what Ferious Thune said

Scarab Sages 4/5

Mattastrophic wrote:

If you'd like, hit me up on Personal Messages. I was in your exact situation, playing a two-weapon rogue, and I've found ways out of this trap.

-Matt

Sent you a PM with my build. I'd appreciate any advice you can give.

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northwest aka WalterGM

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Walter Sheppard wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Walter Sheppard wrote:
Good thing he has that inherent 5% auto-succeed on saves that all characters do ;)
And that inherent 5% auto-fail too.
Doesn't matter what your +to Reflex is in that case too. So really, the low Reflex on Rukk only matters 90% of the time. That's like a 10% chance that it doesn't matter!
I'm not really getting your point. I had already dismissed both since there is nothing to be done about it. (Although I do miss the 3.5 feat that allowed you to no longer fail Fort saves on natural 1s.)

I don't really have a point to make, I'm just having a good time with this thread. I guess if I had a point here it would be that I don't really mind his poor reflex save. If I was concerned, I wouldn't have tanked it like I did. Previous posts were an effort to convey this through brevity.

I've been known to tell my GM: "If you don't roll a 1, you hit me. All Rukk has going for his AC is that 5% concealment." I don't mind taking damage or failing saves on him. Hopefully his HP is enough to survive whatever effect he's failing. And failing that, at least the NPC wasted that spell on me instead of someone else in the party. Someone that likely does more damage or has more useful actions in combat aside from soaking hits, which is about all Rukk can do reliably.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I honestly had no idea folks would latch onto those benchmarks I threw together; glad I could provide some help and/or fun! :D

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northwest aka WalterGM

gnoams wrote:
Walter Sheppard wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Walter Sheppard wrote:
Good thing he has that inherent 5% auto-succeed on saves that all characters do ;)
And that inherent 5% auto-fail too.
Doesn't matter what your +to Reflex is in that case too. So really, the low Reflex on Rukk only matters 90% of the time. That's like a 10% chance that it doesn't matter!
heh. well that's one way of looking at it. I'd be more worried about the low will save myself. Failed reflex tends to just do damage, which you can take. Getting feared or dominated on the other hand...

Oh yeah. He's definitely been dominated before. Those were some of my favorite games!

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

Walter Sheppard wrote:
I don't really have a point to make, I'm just having a good time with this thread. I guess if I had a point here it would be that I don't really mind his poor reflex save. If I was concerned, I wouldn't have tanked it like I did. Previous posts were an effort to convey this through brevity.

I was simply providing an example of a Reflex save that would have a noticeable effect.

Dark Archive

Fact of the matter is that PFS is mostly geared towards the lowest common denominator. After all, the intention is that everyone is able to enjoy it. There are some uh... obvious exceptions to this, however. >_> But those aside even inexperienced players can hop in and have a great time. That's why heavily optimized characters and/or parties just sort of cut swaths of destruction through about everything involving combat.

One thing I've been seen more of lately is characters optimized towards social encounters, though I myself have found it's very easy to have a character be extremely proficient at both the social aspect and laying of the smacketh down.

Silver Crusade

I wonder how I stack up as a 6th-level sorceress.

My melee attack bonus is currently +1, ranged is +4. Of course, I don't have Precise Shot, so those scorching shocking rays are usually just blank d20 rolls. Good thing I don't rely on them!

My main thing is spells, and right now my save DCs are 16 + spell level, or 19 for my highest-level (3rd) spells. Oh, except my only 3rd-level spell is lightning bolt and I have Spell Focus (evocation), so it's actually DC 20.

Let's see... at CR 8, a good save is +11, so they're succeeding on a 9 or better. That's kind of depressing, actually. :(

As for my own saves, my highest is Will at +6, against a primary save DC of 18, so I need a 12 to save. Man, I should have been an empyreal-blooded sorceress!

Silver Crusade

The Beard wrote:
I myself have found it's very easy to have a character be extremely proficient at both the social aspect and laying of the smacketh down.

I passed those melee benchmarks earlier, and 7/day I can also hit something like +19 Diplomacy.

Silver Crusade 5/5

The Beard wrote:
One thing I've been seen more of lately is characters optimized towards social encounters, though I myself have found it's very easy to have a character be extremely proficient at both the social aspect and laying of the smacketh down.

I have done my best to protect my fellow Pathfinder agents in both physical trials as well as more political challenges.

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northwest aka WalterGM

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Walter Sheppard wrote:
I don't really have a point to make, I'm just having a good time with this thread. I guess if I had a point here it would be that I don't really mind his poor reflex save. If I was concerned, I wouldn't have tanked it like I did. Previous posts were an effort to convey this through brevity.
I was simply providing an example of a Reflex save that would have a noticeable effect.

For sure. There are definitely a few nasty Reflex-based spells.

All the wall of force/ice/stone allow a save to disrupt them. Soften earth and stone on wet ground is a save or loose your next turn or two. Even just entangle, grease, and web give him trouble. It's a good thing I like making the imprisoned King Kong roar whenever he gets stuck, so it's all good ;)

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

Walter Sheppard wrote:
It's a good thing I like making the imprisoned King Kong roar whenever he gets stuck, so it's all good ;)

I so need to be at a table with him.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Walter Sheppard wrote:
All the wall of force/ice/stone allow a save to disrupt them.

I just checked all the CRB ones (fire, force, ice, iron, stone, thorns) and only ice allows that.

Though on a side note, wall of iron allows a Reflex save to jump out of the way if someone tries to tip it over onto you after it's already in place, and wall of stone lets you avoid being completely enclosed with a Reflex save.

But only ice can be negated by jumping in to disrupt it.

Dark Archive

You may like the feat godless healing from ISWG, you can even take it multiple times, unlike toughness.

I found that my damage was negligible when I played what I thought were battle clerics with 14 str & one handed weapons. Found 18 str & one handers were almost as bad when playing my inquistor, even back when heirloom weapon allowed exotic weapons like badtard sword for 1d10 . Even bane only last a few rounds a day. This us why I love the alchemical discovery vestigial arm so much. I can pack two handed weapon damage and still have the protection if a shield.

I belie e if you are going to struggle with something, you might as well dump the stat and use the bonus points to keep yourself Alive via Con or boosting the stat for what you want to do/succeed at.

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northwest aka WalterGM

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Walter Sheppard wrote:
It's a good thing I like making the imprisoned King Kong roar whenever he gets stuck, so it's all good ;)
I so need to be at a table with him.

PaizoCon or GenCon this year? I might play him in the Special if there's a 12+ bracket (assuming I get through Eyes before then).

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northwest aka WalterGM

Jiggy wrote:
Walter Sheppard wrote:
All the wall of force/ice/stone allow a save to disrupt them.

I just checked all the CRB ones (fire, force, ice, iron, stone, thorns) and only ice allows that.

Though on a side note, wall of iron allows a Reflex save to jump out of the way if someone tries to tip it over onto you after it's already in place, and wall of stone lets you avoid being completely enclosed with a Reflex save.

But only ice can be negated by jumping in to disrupt it.

Well there I go assuming again...

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

Walter Sheppard wrote:
PaizoCon or GenCon this year? I might play him in the Special if there's a 12+ bracket (assuming I get through Eyes before then).

I hear that Seeker tiers are going away. :( I'm scheduled for nothing but 7-11s, but that's just the official slots. I'm sure there will be other games I'm in. :)

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northwest aka WalterGM

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Walter Sheppard wrote:
PaizoCon or GenCon this year? I might play him in the Special if there's a 12+ bracket (assuming I get through Eyes before then).
I hear that Seeker tiers are going away. :( I'm scheduled for nothing but 7-11s, but that's just the official slots. I'm sure there will be other games I'm in. :)

Look me up, I'm GMing 7-11's all PaizoCon at least, and probably for most of GenCon.

5/5

Hmm, interesting thread. Lets see what benchmarks I am hitting with my sorcerer I am planning on.

Quote:

Level 11

Save DC's: 19+spell level, generally 2-4
Conjuration: 23+spell level
AC 16
hp 79
Saving Throw Bonuses Fort +10, Ref +9, Will +15
High Skills: Many at 19-24

So, lets have a look against CR10-13

CR10: High attack +18/45, ability DC13/19, saves 9/13

OK, with my AC of 16 I am pretty much getting hit by anything and everything. That is largely to be expected for an arcane caster. Against that however I should always be flying, mirror image and invisibility are both available and emergency force sphere sits there like a big honking middle finger. DC wise he is facing a 50/50 chance at worst against hostile effects. In terms of offence he can target any of the saves with conjuration spells so should generally be able to target the lowest save of around +9. DC25 for a create pit or glitterdust or DC26 stinking cloud is likely to land even if targeting a good save. Those chances increase significantly as soon as he adds Persistent Spell.

CR11: Ability DC's 14/20, saves 10/14

Physical combat retains the same issues. Worst save chance is now at 45% which is looking a bit dodgier. Monsters still struggle to save needing an 11 against glitterdust and rolling twice.

CR12: Ability DC's 15/21, saves 11/15

Ability DC's are becoming positively dangerous now, at least fort and ref to the point where we may need to emergency force sphere special attacks as well as melee. Monster saves still aren't good enough although +15 versus create pit/glitterdust DC25 is healthier. He can force 3 saves a turn if he must with a quickened glitterdust and a persistent one.

CR13: Ability DC's 15/21, saves 12/16

Ability DC's are definitely in the danger zone here and an efs may well be necessary even for will based attacks. Of course he carries a clear spindle just in case. Monster saves are high enough that he might consider using non persistent higher level spell slots. Hungering Pit is DC28 so has a good chance of dropping even a good save, provided the opponent is mostly ground based of course.

Overall not looking too shabby and comes loaded with lots of skills and a fairly wide mix of spells known.

5/5

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Walter Sheppard wrote:
I don't really have a point to make, I'm just having a good time with this thread. I guess if I had a point here it would be that I don't really mind his poor reflex save. If I was concerned, I wouldn't have tanked it like I did. Previous posts were an effort to convey this through brevity.
I was simply providing an example of a Reflex save that would have a noticeable effect.

Resilient Sphere is a great option for trapping low reflex characters who don't have easy access to teleportation effects like Fighters, Barbarians, Druids and Clerics. I don't think I have ever seen a PFS NPC who had it though.

Dark Archive

andreww wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Walter Sheppard wrote:
I don't really have a point to make, I'm just having a good time with this thread. I guess if I had a point here it would be that I don't really mind his poor reflex save. If I was concerned, I wouldn't have tanked it like I did. Previous posts were an effort to convey this through brevity.
I was simply providing an example of a Reflex save that would have a noticeable effect.
Resilient Sphere is a great option for trapping low reflex characters who don't have easy access to teleportation effects like Fighters, Barbarians, Druids and Clerics. I don't think I have ever seen a PFS NPC who had it though.

I have encountered all of one PFS NPC that actually did use resilient spheres, albeit through magic items instead of casting spells. I don't even want to post where this takes place even in a spoiler, however. People will just have to wonder. :P

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

andreww wrote:
Resilient Sphere is a great option for trapping low reflex characters who don't have easy access to teleportation effects like Fighters, Barbarians, Druids and Clerics. I don't think I have ever seen a PFS NPC who had it though.

Reverse Gravity as well, although I assume at that level Walter has gotten him some kind of flight ability.

5/5

The Beard wrote:
I have encountered all of one PFS NPC that actually did use resilient spheres, albeit through magic items instead of casting spells. I don't even want to post where this takes place even in a spoiler, however. People will just have to wonder. :P

Aaah, of course, I hadn't even considered the

Spoiler:
beads...shame the DC is so low
Sczarni 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Pullman aka Coraith

Quote:

Level 11

Attack Bonus +17
Average Attack Damage 45
AC 33
hp 87
Saving Throw Bonuses +10
Offensive Ability DC 27
High Skills +19

Signifer Ahtuz, Gluttonous Necromancer of Cheliax just hit level 12.

Attack Bonus +8
Average Attack Damage 5.
AC 12
HP 108+1d10
Saving Throw Bonuses 9/3/10 +ton of specific modifiers.
Offensive Ability DC 24-29 depending on spell level
High Skills Most are into the 20s
Bottom Line He serves as a debuffer for the most part and fight ender if things get serious or if he becomes annoyed, like if someone laughs at him after he offers reasonable terms for their surrender.

5/5

How are you getting 33AC on a Wizard?

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

andreww wrote:
How are you getting 33AC on a Wizard?

He's not; that's the monster AC.

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northwest aka WalterGM

TriOmegaZero wrote:
andreww wrote:
Resilient Sphere is a great option for trapping low reflex characters who don't have easy access to teleportation effects like Fighters, Barbarians, Druids and Clerics. I don't think I have ever seen a PFS NPC who had it though.
Reverse Gravity as well, although I assume at that level Walter has gotten him some kind of flight ability.

He does, but I imagine my "get out of this spell" move for reverse gravity would just be to get to the edge of it and plummet back to the ground. But he hasn't fought any glabrezus so I haven't gotten a chance to try it out.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Walter Sheppard wrote:
But he hasn't fought any glabrezus so I haven't gotten a chance to try it out.

I can arrange the meeting. :)

5/5

Jiggy wrote:
andreww wrote:
How are you getting 33AC on a Wizard?
He's not; that's the monster AC.

Doh, reading comprehension fail.

5/5

Walter Sheppard wrote:
He does, but I imagine my "get out of this spell" move for reverse gravity would just be to get to the edge of it and plummet back to the ground. But he hasn't fought any glabrezus so I haven't gotten a chance to try it out.

Hmm, I think that only works if you have hit the roof. If it is outside or the roof is too high I think you just bob around up there like a cork.

5/5 5/55/55/5

gnoams wrote:
Actually, yes. Theoretically if you have a 4 player party where everyone meets the bar, each player will defeat 1/4th of each encounter and you'll never have problems.

No, for a few reasons

1) You do not control who/what gets sat at the table with you. It could be six people who can solo the dungeon, it could be three people who are going to die to a fluffy bunny rabbit. If you are expecting 3 equal combatants and you only get 2 you gonna die.

2) Those numbers are based on an average. Sometimes the dice hate you. They don't need to hate you by much if you're only hovering around a 50 50 success rate. One bad crit and the odds go heavily against your favor

3) Sometimes the CR 3 is a bunch of orcz. Sometimes its a necrophidius. Get a monster above its alleged cr and SPLAT.

4) They assume a combat on equal footing. If i had a gold piece for every "You're suprised! Make your saves, no perception rolls no nothing, suck it up!" I've seen I'd be able to afford that +4/+4 headband.

5) Playing even long odds in the long run is bad. If you have a 90% chance of success, you have a 90% chance of succeeding the first time, and 81% chance of victory both times, a 73% chance of victory three times...

In my experience your 4 player group has one player that towers over the bar, two players that meet it, and one player that cant even touch the bar rolling a nat 20 on his jump check. As long as you do average out to meeting or passing it, then you're fine (and most of the time you do). I don't like towering over it, because I want to let other players have their share of fun too.

Silver Crusade

Jiggy wrote:
andreww wrote:
How are you getting 33AC on a Wizard?
He's not; that's the monster AC.

It is the benchmark AC. He is demonstrating that he falls short of that benchmark. But for a wizard, that is probably okay.

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northwest aka WalterGM

andreww wrote:
Walter Sheppard wrote:
He does, but I imagine my "get out of this spell" move for reverse gravity would just be to get to the edge of it and plummet back to the ground. But he hasn't fought any glabrezus so I haven't gotten a chance to try it out.
Hmm, I think that only works if you have hit the roof. If it is outside or the roof is too high I think you just bob around up there like a cork.

Yeah, I'd have to grab onto a nearby creature, tree branch, or something and pull myself out. Or just start flying. But that seems a lot less Rukkish ;)

Lantern Lodge

Walter Sheppard wrote:

Now I want to play this game with my character!

Quote:

Level 11

Attack Bonus +17
Average Attack Damage 45
AC 33
hp 87
Saving Throw Bonuses +10
Offensive Ability DC 27
High Skills +19

Oooh, fun! I'll give it a go too with my current Eyes of the Ten PC (we have finished 1st part) who is earning my player credit for the scenarios, having previously ran the series once.

Val Morik

Attack Bonus When unbuffed, +17/+12 (+14/+9 w/power attack). When buffed in bouts of 24 mins at a time, +22/+17/+11/+11/+11/+11 (+19/+14/+8/+8/+8/+8 w/power attack). Using his arcane pool, he can make his weapon attacks brilliant energy or give all his attacks a +8 bonus to hit by sacrificing 3 points of damage to lack of arcane strike. (unbuffed +/buffed ++)
Average Attack Damage When unbuffed, 51. When buffed assuming all hits (unlikely), 140. (unbuffed +/buffed ++)
AC Unbuffed, 37 (t 25/f-f 25). Buffed, 45 (t 25/f-f 32). These figures are further increased by +3 if fighting defensively. (unbuffed ++/buffed +++)
HP Unbuffed, 99. Buffed, 123. (+)
Saving Throw Bonuses Unbuffed, +16/+13/+14. Buffed, +16/+14/+14. Additionally, Chaldira loves him, and he can re-roll a saving throw once per day if things get real. (++)
Offesnive Ability DC DC 22 from his 4th level spells. He almost never uses anyhow, however. (-)
High Skills Unbuffed, Acrobatics +15, Bluff +19, Craft (tattoo) +14, Fly +7, Intimidate +15, Knowledge (arcana) +23, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +12, Knowledge (engineering) +9, Knowledge (geography) +9, Knowledge (history) +9, Knowledge (local) +9, Knowledge (nature) +9, Knowledge (planes) +12, Knowledge (religion) +9, Linguistics +12, Perception +16, Sense Motive +16, Spellcraft +23, Stealth +17, Use Magic Device +15. There are very few things he wants for in the skill department, but the decided lack of Diplomacy is often felt. (++)
Bottom Line With that AC and mirror images, he's extremely physically resilient, which is his primary. Against low to mid-range AC opponents, his damage is very good as well. Against high mid-range to high AC opponents, he relies on brilliant energy weapons and arcane accuracy to hit reliably. Part way through EotT when he attains 13th level, he'll be putting Cornugon Smash + Shatter Defenses + his Iaijutsu Focus class feature to scary effect, making it easier to hit most opponents and for an additional 8 damage per hit. His primary weakness is max DC save or suck casters and monsters, as his saves are not typically sufficient enough to save him for a optimally built caster.

Liberty's Edge

gnoams wrote:
...I love coming up with weird concepts, like a gnomish inventor that rides around on his flying machine shooting guns, then find some rules to make it happen (a summoner/gunslinger with a flying eidolon)...

I have a similar idea for my gnome transmuter. I'm making him into a Golem Crafter (non-PFS) that uses his golem of iron and stone or whatever as his vehicle that he controls. Or maybe its more of a clockwork automaton... Anyway, he is supposed to be a bit of a mad scientist :)

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

Quote:

11th Level

Attack Bonus +17
Average Attack Damage 45
AC 33
HP 87
Saving Throw Bonuses +10
Offensive Ability DC 27
High Skills +19

Hmm, let's see how Kurik matches up. All numbers are unbuffed.

Attack Bonus: +17
This is a little misleading due to his recent level up to 12th. Gaining another point of Str and BAB bumped him up from +15. Still, pretty close for a multiclassed character. He does lose 1 point when going offensive thanks to his buckler penalty.

Damage: 16
This is also thrown by the Str boost. However, this goes up a noticeable amount when defense is not required. Power Attack adds 6 in normal combat, and his damage goes up to a total of 27 when abandoning defense. (Not doing the full attack calculation due to most often using Vital Strike and Furious Focus instead.) Overall, not usually hitting the standard unless conditions are favorable.

AC: 35 with Vindicator's Shield, 30 without.
Pretty well on target here, playing the luck game with Vindicator's Shield. 5 channels let him weather the bad luck of enemies with high attack bonuses.

HP: 108
Obviously doing well with a nice Con.

Saves: +16/+7/+12
Add in bonuses against spells and other specifics and he's meeting that goal.

Offensive DC: 18
Kurik sticks to self-buffs and avoids save granting abilities. It shows.

Skill: +11
Two points per level plus spreading around rather than narrowing focus leaves him behind on this.

Silver Crusade 4/5

Bruno grapple his own imagination and pretend to fight stupid monster that not there.

DUMB DUMB PRETEND MONSTER STATS(CR 15)
HP: 220
AC: 30
Attack: +24 (high)/+18 (low)
Avg Dam: 70 (high)/52 (low)
Ability DC: 23 (high)/16 (low)
Save: 18 (high)/+13 (low)

BEAUTIFUL & HANDSOME TETORI TALE OF THE TAPE:

Bruno is L9 Tetori-Qiggong Monk/L4 Brutal Pugilist Barbarian (CR 12)

Bruno get very angry that his friends leave Bruno alone to fight idiothead CR+3 monster, so all stats assume Bruno raging.

Grapple CMB: +38 (+42 with Stregth Surge)
Unarmed Strike: +23/+18

If can be grappled, Bruno grapple it. If no can be grappled, Bruno hit 65% then 40% of time on UAS attacks.

Unarmed Strike Damage: 2d6+13
If Bruno using hands to slap monster and hits with both, it would be 40 DPR. If Bruno hit with every attack (unlikely), it would take 5.5 rounds to slap monster to death. Bruno most likely dead or nearly dead if it a slap fight.

If Bruno grapple and can use constrict and do non-lethal, Bruno can crush it to death in two rounds. If he can only do non-lethal, three rounds. If only straight damage, 5.5 rounds. If Bruno enlarged, monster dies sooner.

AC: 28
Bruno can cast Barkskin on self and UMD Mage Armor wand. He also can go total defense for +6 AC and spend a KI point for another +4 for an AC of 38, meaning high attack only hit 35% of time and iterative attack can only hit Bruno on a natural 20. If either attack miss, Bruno use Snapping Turtle Clutch to trigger grapple.

Bruno also has a wand of Shield he can use if he knows a fight is coming to boost his AC some more.

HP: 186 (200 if use [redacted] boon)
Bruno HP boosted by: Rage, Raging Vitality, Furious Courageous Item & Ioun Stone. If monster does 70 DPR per round, Bruno drops in the third round if his AC doesn't doesn't stop any attacks.

SAVES: +23/+15/+17 (+5 if Superstition applies)
Bruno very likely shrug off most effects of stupidface monster.

Stunning Fist DC: 19
Hahahaha, Bruno use that once in a scenario over a year and a half ago.

Skills
+19 Acrobatics & Perception, +17 Stealth (never use), +12 UMD

If Bruno could go back in time, Bruno would move Stealth skill points into Diplomacy or Intimidate. Bruno no realize how little PFS uses scouting.

BOTTOM LINE:
Bruno grapple.

If Bruno no grapple, have to work very hard to stay alive and slap dumb dumb monster to death.

Out of Combat: Bruno rely on friends for knowing things and talking to people. Bruno talk to people, but friends no like when Bruno does that.

Sczarni

Oracle 1/Sorcerer 9

Hp 93 Yay I do well =)
Ac 12 =(
Attack -3 =(
Dmg 1d3-3 =(
DC for save or suck spells 23-26 persistent + misfortune fort,will, or ref =)

Saves +10/+7/+11

Skills. I am very cha-full(26) So I can talkity talk very good. =)

So I gots 3 happy faces and 3 frowny faces. I do not like this game!!!!

Who needs flim flam armor when you can turn avisible? or instantly make domes of force right before the baddies attack you or you can make the area around you dark and blind them, or just fly away, or dime door somewhere else!

Even the awesomer Bruno grabbing the awesomerest me is pointless cause my boots would magic me away. Heck I could bonk my blinkity blink ring and walk off.

Who needs to punch things when you magic it into a ball. Or grease their weapon into uselessness. I someones makes me very mad I could shatter their bones! Rage then when you are tired cause your bones are osteo-perosisized.

I HATE this game! Gnome rule! Color spray the world!

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Aspasia de Malagant wrote:
gnoams wrote:
...I love coming up with weird concepts, like a gnomish inventor that rides around on his flying machine shooting guns, then find some rules to make it happen (a summoner/gunslinger with a flying eidolon)...
I have a similar idea for my gnome transmuter. I'm making him into a Golem Crafter (non-PFS) that uses his golem of iron and stone or whatever as his vehicle that he controls. Or maybe its more of a clockwork automaton... Anyway, he is supposed to be a bit of a mad scientist :)

Yeah, it makes me sad that golem crafting isn't allowed in pfs. Also that there's no artificer class.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Don't forget the #1 rule of PFS: You are not alone. Comparing estimated foe abilities vs your character capabilities is a fine guideline, but remember that those CR+2 or higher opponents are facing a party.

For instance, a high ac opponent on level 5 might seem hard to hit if you value it in a statistical vacuum, but its ac value can fluctuate with debuffs, conditions, being flanked, etc.

For what its worth, my general guideline for combat design is to have an attack rating double of the character's level(sans first level, where +3-4 is appropriate). It does not always work, for instance when doing a melee character with very little self-buffing, but usually gets results. So, first level +4, third level +6, fourth +8, etc. This leaves some of my characters with rather minor damage values, but it's better to hit and do something than do nothing at all.

Scarab Sages 2/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:


5) Playing even long odds in the long run is bad. If you have a 90% chance of success, you have a 90% chance of succeeding the first time, and 81% chance of victory both times, a 73% chance of victory three times...

Oh how I wish this was true...I would be rich.

Silver Crusade 4/5

Bruno never hurt Pontificor the Great. Bruno never grapple friends, only give them strong hugs.

101 to 150 of 239 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Organized Play / Pathfinder Society / Power Level for PFS All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.