Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Has anyone come up with a good solution for this for non-magic-users? A fighter can't buy a potion of see invisibility or potion of invisibility purge because they are personal spells and personal spells can not be made into potions or oils. The best thing I can think of for a fighter is to hope the caster has those spells available or put a lot of money into a magic item that grants see invisibility (the cheapest is probably 100 000+ gp). I guess there's good ol' chalk but your time is probably better spent just hacking at the air.
Something that lets you see invisible targets. It'll come in handy, I promise.
Glowing ink + Marker Dye.
Every thing in the splash area is splashed with glowing dye. No Reflex save. Glowing Dye is a light source. Light sources do not become invisible.
If anyone can see invisible, have them paint the target for you. If no one can see invisible, you can hit a 2x2 area and try to get lucky. If you get hit by a melee attack, break it over your own head, anyone in the surrounding squares will get splashed.
May only work in dim or dark areas. (depends how your Gm reads the rule.) However, does work in darkness as well. (But not deeper darkness.)
20 gp. (5 gp glowing ink + 15 gp marker dye.)
Fire.
Again, it is a light source. Anything you can use to light the target on fire makes it impossible to go fully invisible. (This is why my alchemist uses explosive grenades on casters as soon as I can.) Alchemist fire will burn them for one round. Tangleburn bags are better, but expensive, especially if you are throwing them blind.
In either case, at best it is probably going to reduce the 50% miss chance to 20%. But if you add Blind fight to that, you should be doing pretty good.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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Also let's not forget that as a move action, you can always make a Perception check and try and locate the enemy's location via sound. Chances are they didn't make a Stealth check and you'll easily be able to hear where they went. The listed DC to hear a creature walking is 10, which invisibility expressly does not help with.Hear the sound of a creature walking might tell you there is something there but that sounds a long way off from pinpoint which square they are in.
Also if you are invisible and benefitting from the +20 stealth bonus while moving why wouldn't you make a stealth check? It is only a -5 penalty if you are moving above half speed which is more than offset by the huge bonus from being invisible.
As we all know being invisible makes you quiet, its one of those interesting quirks of combining the old spot and listen skills.
Direct text from the spell.
Of course, the subject is not magically silenced, and certain other conditions can render the recipient detectable (such as swimming in water or stepping in a puddle).
I always rule that invisibility has no impact on sound-based Perception checks, like hearing a creature's movement.
If that creature wants to make a Stealth check while they move with invisibility, that is one thing. If they don't, then determining their general orientation isn't that difficult with a decent Perception check, as per the rules of the skill.
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FLite - I like the idea, but I think I would rule against it in most cases (even dim light). The descirption says: "If there is glowing ink on an object, you have a +2 bonus on Perception checks to locate it." ...so I think I would just give you +2 to that perception check to locate the invisible creature.
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Unbreakable Heart is fantastic for this, as it is a harmless spell from Inner Sea World Guide and it is on a lot of spell lists. However, all it does is suppress the effect for its duration (a rounds per level spell), so scrolls are a bad idea. Spending a turn to make an ally not-confused for one round isn't worth the action (in most cases).
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For many friends, 1 round of not confused is enough time to make their character not so deadly.
The wizard can take off and throw his component pouch - the barbarian can drop or throw his/her main weapon and possibly rid herself/himself their backup weapon or missile weapon. The zen archer can drop or toss their bow, etc. I round of sanity knowing they are about to once more be insane can make all the difference in enhancing the survival of the party members.
Or anyone can blindfold themselves (some GMs won't let this work, YRMV)
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I always explained it away as being invisible makes it easier to concentrate on being quiet since you don't have to worry about being seen. Invisibility says you get +20 on stealth checks, not sight based stealth checks.
Does it make them harder to smell too? (perception based on scent)
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Derwalt, The glowing ink gives you +2 to locate a visible object.
On an invisible object, it is a glowing splotch hanging in mid air. At very least it is going to tell you what square they are in.
Would you rule against the lighting them on fire? lighting an object on fire gives no bonus to locating it as far as I can tell.
The relevant rule is under invisibility: Light sources carried by invisible opponents are visible.
Now, they could make a stealth check to hide the glowing splotch. But since the glowing splotch is not invisible, it would not benefit from the +20 stealth from invisibility.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Do anything that isn't the standard/classic/"intended" solution—like using create water to make puddles for invisible enemies to step in, or using a lasso to pull a flying enemy to the ground, or closing your eyes to bypass mirror image, or doing anything that has a smaller cost than mordenkainan's anti-X—and you're treated like you're trying to get away with something.
Of course, the obvious solution is to simply conform to that expectation: for each obstacle, acquire the spell (whether known, scroll'd or potion'd) whose sole purpose is to entirely negate that obstacle.
And then, once you've assembled enough solutions that you never have to rely on creativity and can instead always pull out your scroll of bypassing obstacle #37c, you get to hear about how you're "trivializing encounters".
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Derwalt, The glowing ink gives you +2 to locate a visible object.
On an invisible object, it is a glowing splotch hanging in mid air. At very least it is going to tell you what square they are in.
Would you rule against the lighting them on fire? lighting an object on fire gives no bonus to locating it as far as I can tell.
The relevant rule is under invisibility: Light sources carried by invisible opponents are visible.
Now, they could make a stealth check to hide the glowing splotch. But since the glowing splotch is not invisible, it would not benefit from the +20 stealth from invisibility.
minor correction in the bolded section above...
from the spell Invisibility
"...Light, however, never becomes invisible, although a source of light can become so (thus, the effect is that of a light with no visible source)...."so, actually, light sources carried by invisible opponents (or anyone) are invisible.
hope that helps!
Light can never be invisible.
Light sources can.Pretend to be a troop of lantern archons! :D
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Derwalt, The glowing ink gives you +2 to locate a visible object.
On an invisible object, it is a glowing splotch hanging in mid air. At very least it is going to tell you what square they are in.
Would you rule against the lighting them on fire? lighting an object on fire gives no bonus to locating it as far as I can tell.
The relevant rule is under invisibility: Light sources carried by invisible opponents are visible.
Now, they could make a stealth check to hide the glowing splotch. But since the glowing splotch is not invisible, it would not benefit from the +20 stealth from invisibility.
minor correction in the bolded section above...
from the spell Invisibility
"...Light, however, never becomes invisible, although a source of light can become so (thus, the effect is that of a light with no visible source)...."so, actually, light sources carried by invisible opponents (or anyone) are invisible.
hope that helps!
Huh. I seem to have misread that. Thanks. I guess that does open it up to a wider interpretation.
I'm still going to argue that it is going to be pretty obvious to spot the multiple glows spots, at least in dim light.
That said, I can see the argument for it only allowing you to identify the square, but leaving the enemy their total concealment.
Also, remember that a simple prestidigitation cantrip can remove the ink. :)
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** spoiler omitted **
I love creative solutions. But there are sometimes issues:
1) sometimes the creative solution abuses the RAW sufficiently that I can't in good conscience allow it in PFS (I'm significantly more lenient in home games)
2) sometimes a creative solution really isn't. The first time one sees a character throwing sand in an opponents eyes its cool. The thousandth time its hackneyed and boring.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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** spoiler omitted **I love creative solutions. But there are sometimes issues:
1) sometimes the creative solution abuses the RAW sufficiently that I can't in good conscience allow it in PFS (I'm significantly more lenient in home games)
All the "detect magic detecting an aura of illusion would invalidate see invisibility" GMs just nodded their heads in agreement as you recited their mantra.
Honestly, I'd use Reverse Gravity against flying opponents. Make them fly with a resounding thud. Only if it's inside an enclosed area though.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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If memory serves, the Dungeoneer's Handbook has some sort of smoke pellet with icky stuff that sticks to critters and temporarily negates invisibility.
Smog pellet.
Samiel actually carries a smog pellet, a stunstone (thanks to this thread) and has his 1/day glitterdust.
Yes, he's an archaeological Batman.
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** spoiler omitted **I love creative solutions. But there are sometimes issues:
1) sometimes the creative solution abuses the RAW sufficiently that I can't in good conscience allow it in PFS (I'm significantly more lenient in home games)
All the "detect magic detecting an aura of illusion would invalidate see invisibility" GMs just nodded their heads in agreement as you recited their mantra.
Good thing Con of the North is about 24 hours away!
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Good thing Con of the North is about 24 hours away!** spoiler omitted **I love creative solutions. But there are sometimes issues:
1) sometimes the creative solution abuses the RAW sufficiently that I can't in good conscience allow it in PFS (I'm significantly more lenient in home games)
All the "detect magic detecting an aura of illusion would invalidate see invisibility" GMs just nodded their heads in agreement as you recited their mantra.
Speaking of which, have a look at my post in the Boon Trading Thread; I've gotten myself into a pickle.
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Detect Magic does work to eventually detect invisible creatures that are using magic, but it doesn't work against natural invisibility (AFAIK) and only works in a cone that the opponent can move out of.
Making you restart, hoping your new cone has them in it.
So, yes, it can work, but you're likely wasting your time.
Cheers.
Exactly, if they are aware that you are Concentrating with a spell in their area, they are likely to move, and you will never pinpoint their square. And of course you cannot do that while casting other spells or taking other Standard Actions, and you are unlikely to even be able to accurately target a Glitterdust unless you can do as a Swift Action immediately upon pinging the cone they are in. Of course, Arcane Sight allows you gain all that info instantaneously, but they still have Total Concealment and you cannot target them with Creature-Targetting spells. And Nondetection and Mindblank should still protect completely against both of those (including cone ping, as it explicitly mentions Detect spells that work that way).
Disappearing Dust is immune to See Invisible and Invis Purge, which is crazy considering it's cheapness (even with short/unreliable duration, which isn't a problem if you have a familiar re-applying it every 2-3 rounds), but interestingly I don't think that immunity extends to Detect Magic, which isn't detetecting the invisible creature directly, but is just detecting the magic aura. That makes sense because the item doesn't use Nondetection in it's creation, so shouldn't gain immunities ala that spell.
Besides, it's funner to have this situation so that Detect Magic users' expectations can be preyed upon: if you can create some mobile, non-visible Illusion effect, they will automatically assume it's an Invisible creature, and don't get to make a Save since there is no Illusion they are actually interacting with, only detecting the REAL Illusion magic aura. :-)
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Here's an updated version of a possible Pathfinder's Adventure Kit (albeit it would be an expensive one!):
Potion of Remove Paralysis
Potion of Remove Blindness
Potion of Fly
Potion/Wand of Lesser Restoration
Potion of Gaseous Form
Potion of Darkvision
Potion of Haste
Oil of Bless Weapon
Oil of Grease
Scroll of Invisibility Purge
Scroll of Breath of Life
Scroll of Endure Elements
Air Crystals and/or Potion of Water Breathing
Alchemist's Fire
Smoke Pellet
Mirror (or smoked goggles)
Metagmagic Rod of Reach (for Breath of Life at a distance)
Clasp of Swarmbane
Dust of Appearance
Wrist Sheath
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Water Breathing is expensive. Air Bubble will do the same thing as a level 1 effect but you want it in a potion sponge as apparently after the release of ARG suddenly you can't drink potions underwater.
If it makes you feel any better, I already wasn't letting people drink potions underwater (or at least not easily).
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Water Breathing is expensive. Air Bubble will do the same thing as a level 1 effect but you want it in a potion sponge as apparently after the release of ARG suddenly you can't drink potions underwater.If it makes you feel any better, I already wasn't letting people drink potions underwater (or at least not easily).
Ain't no rule against it.
*comes back wet and shake shake shakes*
You can drink underwater
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Water Breathing is expensive. Air Bubble will do the same thing as a level 1 effect but you want it in a potion sponge as apparently after the release of ARG suddenly you can't drink potions underwater.If it makes you feel any better, I already wasn't letting people drink potions underwater (or at least not easily).Ain't no rule against it.
*comes back wet and shake shake shakes*
You can drink underwater
This is a weird one. There is a rule that says you can't drink potions underwater, but it's in the Sylph section of the ARG under Potion Sponges.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Water Breathing is expensive. Air Bubble will do the same thing as a level 1 effect but you want it in a potion sponge as apparently after the release of ARG suddenly you can't drink potions underwater.
I'd say more along the lines of "Expect table variation" was replaced with "No" Kind of like everyone's favourite headach of Outsiders and weapon proficiencies.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Water Breathing is expensive. Air Bubble will do the same thing as a level 1 effect but you want it in a potion sponge as apparently after the release of ARG suddenly you can't drink potions underwater.I'd say more along the lines of "Expect table variation" was replaced with "No" Kind of like everyone's favourite headach of Outsiders and weapon proficiencies.I do not understand this post... please expand on what you are saying?
thanks!
Every few months (but not enough for Frequently) it pops up on if native outsides (tieflings/aasimars/fetchlings, etc) with 0 HD get the MWP in the outsider type. it is the RAI of Paizo they don't, but the frequent nature of the question shows it isn't clear...
... unless you use the ARG, and read that they don't. (And the section of the ARG that says it clearly, isn't authorized for PFS play).
Because it's unclear, outside PFS the answer would be "expect table variation" from everyone who hasn't read that section of the ARG. If you have the ARG it's "no"
Kind of like "Can you drink a potion under water?" In this thread we've seen 'table variation' but apparently in the ARG (again, in the section you'd only expect to be relevant if you have the boon) it says "No"
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I want to emphasize you can buy so much with prestige points. Who cares if you can afford a 30 point island? How much use will that actually be to you? Why should.you care so much about your retirement home when your pc is leveled.out if the campaign?
Don't save pp for raise dead. Spend it to avoid getting killed in the first place!
With 2 pp you can buy:
3rd level potions
A scroll with 2 copies of the same 3rd level spell
A scroll with 5 copies of the same 2nd level spell
4th level scroll(watch out for the.ones with costly material components)
Masterwork darkwood bow with up to +3 str bonus
I suspect it is better to spend $ on a masterwork melee weapon but a 400 ci great sword or 530 alchemical silver great sword might be worth saving the money to full plate one adventure sooner. The bow was lusted higher because the str bonus really amps up the price.
Again, spend your prestige to avoid the costly raise dead.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I want to emphasize you can buy so much with prestige points. Who cares if you can afford a 30 point island? How much use will that actually be to you? Why should.you care so much about your retirement home when your pc is leveled.out if the campaign?
Just to comment... because it's cool.
Ksenia has the Taldor Noble title boon... because it's cool. She has the Eagle Knight vanity... to bug the hell out of Andorans. :-)
And the keep boon from <redacted> pays for itself.
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Also to that 2 PP list, other 1st level wands than Magic Missile/CLW.
Feather Step has saved my party a couple times, or even just made a tough terrain battle much simpler to navigate.
Remove Sickness, Remove Fear, Endure Elements (used a bunch), namely any condition a 1st level spell covers that's unusual but debilitating should be bought in a wand for 2 PP, especially if it's 10 min/level or not based on casting level.
Oh, and I have to trumpet the ranged weapon, especially after traveling with a 6th level Barb without one and nearly getting TPKed because of it.
Also for the 2 PP bow, trading the +1 mw bonus on attack for 3 extra damage can be worth it if you're strong enough(but you're unable to enchant it later, so get some magic arrows).
Cheers.