R2 rules update


RPG Superstar™ General Discussion

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Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8 aka Gio

Would stuff like "any environment" or "any land" be okay for the purposes of this round or would they be instantly DQed?

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Champion Voter Season 6, Champion Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Champion Voter Season 9

Matt Banach wrote:

But: Does this also apply to essential statistics, such as Int, Con, CMB, and CMD?

I am pretty sure putting an — for a missing ability score is okay in the case of an unintelligent or undead creature, but CMB and CMD should have a number.

Silver Crusade Dedicated Voter Season 7

Thomas LeBlanc wrote:
Matt Banach wrote:

But: Does this also apply to essential statistics, such as Int, Con, CMB, and CMD?

I am pretty sure putting an — for a missing ability score is okay in the case of an unintelligent or undead creature, but CMB and CMD should have a number.

For something like DR, Resistance, etc..., if a creature has that attribute you need to show it, but if it doesn't then there's no point in having a placeholder showing what's not there. Basic stats that all creatures are expected to have and in unusual instances don't, should be shown because it really matters when a spell or attack targets a common stat like CON, but can't affect the creature, as in the case of a Skeleton, for example.

A Barbed Devil has the following special stats:
Defensive Abilities barbed defense; DR 10/good; Immune fire, poison; Resist acid 10, cold 10; SR 22

A Horse has none of these and so the stat block doesn't include them at all.

Silver Crusade Dedicated Voter Season 7

Given the low CR of the monster for the competition there will likely be few, if any, special stats, but we will see what we will see...

Designer, RPG Superstar Judge

I'm not concerned about people designing a monster that happens to have the same abilities as a template. The contest restriction is so your monster submission isn't "here's my new monster, and it has the vampire template" or (even worse) "here's some other monster that already exists, and I added the vampire template to it."

If you're uncertain about whether to omit something like "Con —," look to the Bestiary for examples of monsters with "Con —" or if that info is omitted.

The focus of this round is to design a monster suitable for an urban environment, not "a monster that happens to be able to live just about anywhere, including urban environments." The latter is technically correct, but isn't likely to impress the voters and judges.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka GM_Solspiral

I'm assuming urban in this case means functional city so no ruins ect...


Ruins are a separate environment according to the Bestiaries.

Silver Crusade Dedicated Voter Season 7

Tokoz wrote:
Just file off the serial numbers when you're done. =)

Is that really a platypus on the the cover? Or just some random body part??!!

For some weird reason, I really hope it's a platypus...

Liberty's Edge Marathon Voter Season 7

It's a platypus with the awesome template, I'm sure.

Just placing the finishing touches on a playable platypus race for Terah. =)

Silver Crusade Dedicated Voter Season 7

1 person marked this as a favorite.

They have apparently enslaved the goblin race and are using them to create a tentacled-face construct army to rule the world.

So it comes to this... world domination... by the platypii...

Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8

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Well this is the dumbest challenge ever! What good is designing a sophisticated, diplomatic monster? I mean, who is going to want to fight a creature that is armed only with panache and style, always up on the latest trends? What, it's going to suave the party to death?

Whisper from other gaming friend.

Ohhhh... urban monster, not urbane. Never mind!

Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8

Nothing wrong with an urbane urban monster...

I like the rules for this round.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Phloid

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
I'm not concerned about people designing a monster that happens to have the same abilities as a template. The contest restriction is so your monster submission isn't "here's my new monster, and it has the vampire template" or (even worse) "here's some other monster that already exists, and I added the vampire template to it."

I wonder what the specific reason that the contest entry can't "be" a template. Many undead bestiary entries are "here is an example that uses a 5th-level fighter as its base, and here is the template that was applied to the example character so that you can turn any character into one of these things." I could see it being a logistics issue as template creatures might be more than 600 words. Or is it because a template has a scaling CR based on what base creature is being used?

Just curious. In this year's contest, templates would be less likely to be attempted with the low CR involved. A base creature would have to be 1st to 3rd level to come in at CR 4 or less once a template is applied.

Paizo Employee Developer , Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

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Sean K Reynolds wrote:


2) Adam "master of the Adventure Path monsters" Daigle is going to post some monster-design advice once the R2 rules are ready. Similar to my "auto-reject" rules for wondrous items, the intent of his advice posts are to help you design better monsters and avoid pitfalls that might make your R2 submission fare poorly with the judges and voters.

{the more you know...}

Okay, folks! My post got kind of big, so I made a new thread. Check it out! So, You're Designing A Pathfinder Monster...

Shadow Lodge Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9

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Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

By the way, a word to the wise for those already working on designing your Round 3 encounter...

In the Know Directions Podcast, SKR mentioned that it was not an accident that the monsters and encounters both utilized the same general types of areas. It was because they knew that when they published the material from those rounds, that they wanted it all to be able to fit into the River Kingdoms.

So, given that the monster round is Urban environments, you'll probably want to make sure that you have an encounter prepped that can also work in an Urban environment.

Not saying that you should stop prepping something you like better -- I'm not going to throw away my awesome wilderness encounter. Just don't be surprised if Urban ends up being the twist for that round as well.

Sczarni RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka CalebTGordan

Oh cool, I already have a few monster ideas for this.

Star Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

Couldn't quite figure out how to make my original monster fit into an urban setting organically (funnily enough, it was a plant), but I came up with two completely new and brilliant ideas as a result!

Ironically enough, one of those ideas was inspired by something I was reading yesterday before the twist of "urban" was introduced- and they intermingle really well.

Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8

Gonna need to brush up on the Golarion cities, since the weekly game I play in is a home-brew world.

Marathon Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8

Cathara wrote:
Woot! My monster is set to be low level and quite urban, this works well. May have to get the flavour a tad more in line but I think it works :)

Low level and quite urban, OR low level and quite urbane (sic) ;).

Silver Crusade Dedicated Voter Season 7

quibblemuch wrote:

Well this is the dumbest challenge ever! What good is designing a sophisticated, diplomatic monster? I mean, who is going to want to fight a creature that is armed only with panache and style, always up on the latest trends? What, it's going to suave the party to death?

Whisper from other gaming friend.

Ohhhh... urban monster, not urbane. Never mind!

I think it means the monster has to wear skinny jeans, have a satchel and drink overpriced caffeinated drinks that are hard to pronounce...as in the spell summon monstrosexual

Sczarni RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka CalebTGordan

Zi'on Darkbane wrote:
quibblemuch wrote:

Well this is the dumbest challenge ever! What good is designing a sophisticated, diplomatic monster? I mean, who is going to want to fight a creature that is armed only with panache and style, always up on the latest trends? What, it's going to suave the party to death?

Whisper from other gaming friend.

Ohhhh... urban monster, not urbane. Never mind!

I think it means the monster has to wear skinny jeans, have a satchel and drink overpriced caffeinated drinks that are hard to pronounce...as in the spell summon monstrosexual

*Scratches one of the monsters on the list, muttering how it isn't as original as he had thought.*

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka SmiloDan

I think I have a good urban monster designed, but I need to add 200 words to it! Hopefully, there will be room for lots of flavor text.

Or else I'll have to up the CR a bit by adding more powers!!!!

Which actually won't be too desirable. I want it to be pretty elegant in its running.

But I have an idea that might use up a lot words without adding a lot of power, but granting a pretty cool benefit.

Off to the drawing board!!!!!

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16 , Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka burrahobbit

Very minor note/question on the template provided: at least as it appears in my browser, there is no line break between the ----- Defense ----- line and the AC line.

I assume there should be, just for reading clarity (previous years' templates have had a break there), but maybe one of the judges can confirm?

I doubt anyone would lose sleep or votes over it, but just wanted to mention it for the sake of people crafting their beautiful monster stat blocks.

Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7

Funny the Urban list of monsters is very small (if you look at mobs by terrain type that is).

Maybe a sewer dwelling croc is considered "underground" and thus not "Urban" or "Any" like a doppelganger which we know looks for civilizations to hide in, indeed could be found in "Any" environment.

I feel this second round will certainly be more interesting because of its selected location to feature a monster in. Very wise going after Urban as it is tough to find creatures not already defined that will fit into it comfortably.

Designers will certainly need to step back and look at the monster two or three times to judge if "Urban" is really the inhabitance or is the monster being a round peg forced into a square hole.

I wish those undertaking this round all the crafters skill you can muster.

Really looking forward to seeing your hard work!

Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9

Hypothetical...

If one creates a monster for a specific city, one can tie the lore of the city into the monster's background. The monster could easily exist other places (they won't explode or starve if teleported into the wilderness), but they only live in these specific cities, therefore making them "urban".

Does this work (I.e. Satisfy the contest rules)?

Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7

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After you put in all of your base template information you might find yourself with about 2 to 3 hundred words to explain the way it looks and acts. As long as you can define it in that space then it should be fine (meaning history of why its in that city since its specific to one). But that is the gem of this round. Seeing the creative tie in within the confides of the Urban terrain.

My first monster idea a few weeks ago was perfect.. it had some excellent details, perfect Challenge level, but once I finished with the design and moved to explaining what it looked like, purpose, and concept was I found myself with only 125 words to do it in. I was trapped by my design to too few words. I dropped some really required abilities to slim it and it lost its focus and was canned. I loved it too! (sigh)

My next idea I hope will work out but still hashing it over. Similar problems as the first.

Designer, RPG Superstar Judge

Sam Harris wrote:

Very minor note/question on the template provided: at least as it appears in my browser, there is no line break between the ----- Defense ----- line and the AC line.

I assume there should be, just for reading clarity (previous years' templates have had a break there), but maybe one of the judges can confirm?
I doubt anyone would lose sleep or votes over it, but just wanted to mention it for the sake of people crafting their beautiful monster stat blocks.

There should be a line break there, I'll ask Chris to fix it tomorrow. :)

Designer, RPG Superstar Judge

Nazard wrote:

Hypothetical...

If one creates a monster for a specific city, one can tie the lore of the city into the monster's background. The monster could easily exist other places (they won't explode or starve if teleported into the wilderness), but they only live in these specific cities, therefore making them "urban".
Does this work (I.e. Satisfy the contest rules)?

Yep, that's allowed. :)

Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Nazard wrote:

Hypothetical...

If one creates a monster for a specific city, one can tie the lore of the city into the monster's background. The monster could easily exist other places (they won't explode or starve if teleported into the wilderness), but they only live in these specific cities, therefore making them "urban".
Does this work (I.e. Satisfy the contest rules)?
Yep, that's allowed. :)

Very interesting. The top 32 are going to have to walk a spectrum between a Golarion urban monster version of a SIAC (Absaloblin: it's a goblin. It only lives in Absalom. Period. The end.) that, while legal, will be viewed by the voting public as a cheap cop-out, and something so specific to one city and tied directly to a single aspect of that city, that a lot of the non-Golarion-using voting public might have trouble understanding why it's as cool as it really is (Absaloblin: this goblin-like creature lives within the great chasm surrounding the Starstone Cathedral. They sneak out at night to catch and toss puppies and small horses into the great abyss, and wait for great heroes to attempt the crossing in order to pants them in a humiliating fashion).

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8

"Mythic" seems to be a subtype, not a template. Are new mythic monsters allowed?

Designer, RPG Superstar Judge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

New mythic monsters are allowed.

Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9

Nazard wrote:
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Nazard wrote:

Hypothetical...

If one creates a monster for a specific city, one can tie the lore of the city into the monster's background. The monster could easily exist other places (they won't explode or starve if teleported into the wilderness), but they only live in these specific cities, therefore making them "urban".
Does this work (I.e. Satisfy the contest rules)?
Yep, that's allowed. :)
Very interesting. The top 32 are going to have to walk a spectrum between a Golarion urban monster version of a SIAC (Absaloblin: it's a goblin. It only lives in Absalom. Period. The end.) that, while legal, will be viewed by the voting public as a cheap cop-out, and something so specific to one city and tied directly to a single aspect of that city, that a lot of the non-Golarion-using voting public might have trouble understanding why it's as cool as it really is (Absaloblin: this goblin-like creature lives within the great chasm surrounding the Starstone Cathedral. They sneak out at night to catch and toss puppies and small horses into the great abyss, and wait for great heroes to attempt the crossing in order to pants them in a humiliating fashion).

Well, hopefully, any "monster from city X" can be an interesting enough monster on its own to garner votes. If it is just a pre-existing monster with "from city X" tacked on, then yea, it is basically the equivalent of a SIAK, but if it is a new, well thought out monster, it could still be good.

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
New mythic monsters are allowed.

Sweet, well that's one way to attract my votes.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka RainyDayNinja

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
New mythic monsters are allowed.

But with a max CR of 4, I'm not sure it's a good idea...

Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9

Joseph Kellogg wrote:
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
New mythic monsters are allowed.
But with a max CR of 4, I'm not sure it's a good idea...

I've liked the mythic CR 1-2 monsters I've seen so far--I think it is a good idea.

If you do it well, of course. You can't just tack "mythic" in front of the name.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka theheadkase

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'd be real careful of the Mythic route. While I'm a huge fan...it is likely a polarizing thing for the general populace.

Also...you'd need a pretty compelling reason why it's a mythic monster at these CR's. Otherwise it will feel tacked on.

Star Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

1 person marked this as a favorite.
theheadkase wrote:
Also...you'd need a pretty compelling reason why it's a mythic monster at these CR's. Otherwise it will feel tacked on.

Mythic C.H.U.D.?

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8

It's hard to say whether mythic monsters would be seen (by the judges and/or voters) as a good thing, being relatively unexplored design space, or a bad thing, as not so many people are familiar with the mythic character rules much less the mythic monster rules. I don't know whether I'd end up submitting a mythic monster if I made top 32, but it's good to know that it's an option.

As an aside, I sure hope that the final round challenge is to write a mythic adventure! Even a low-level one would be awesome. One of my favorite things about Pathfinder's mythic rules is that, unlike the old "epic" rules, they can be used at any level.


Dang, I just realized I posted something that would have been perfect for these guidelines over in Homebrew a while ago, in that Books thread. Hm. Off to think about other possibilities.

Star Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

Man, I'm really loving my monster (the one I've ultimately settled on, though I still like the other two and will continue to work on them).

Hope I advance, because I think this one is fantastic, and deserves a spotlight! (And my plans for the encounter round are pretty awesome.)

There's always Wayfinder if not, though. Good luck to everyone, looking forward to seeing the top 32 in any event! :)

Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8

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Is there, by chance, a Paizo style guide available somewhere?

Scarab Sages Marathon Voter Season 7

For those that did not notice, and I think it is very helpful information, according to SKR, a Golarion Monster does not necessarily mean a Golarion Exclusive monster so much as a Golarion Appropriate monster.

Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

What's the official word on sub-types? Are those allowed?

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8 aka Jiggy

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quibblemuch wrote:
Is there, by chance, a Paizo style guide available somewhere?

Wouldn't four Bestiaries worth of stat blocks, plus the copy-paste template in the R2 rules, be enough of a style guide? Or are you asking about something else?

Paizo Employee Developer , Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9

Bryan Bloomer wrote:
What's the official word on sub-types? Are those allowed?

I don't see why not. In some cases they would be necessary.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 aka motteditor

Wicht wrote:
For those that did not notice, and I think it is very helpful information, according to SKR, a Golarion Monster does not necessarily mean a Golarion Exclusive monster so much as a Golarion Appropriate monster.

Maybe, but this line in the rules -- "Entry must be a new Golarion monster (not world-neutral or set in a world other than Golarion)." -- would make me very hesitant to not have something tied in awfully well to Golarion. I suspect that wouldn't be the top factor voters decide on if a monster's generally awesome, but I think it will be a factor for a lot of people. I'd think more along the lines I'm writing for Inner Sea Bestiary 2 than Bestiary 5.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8

Jacob W. Michaels wrote:
Wicht wrote:
For those that did not notice, and I think it is very helpful information, according to SKR, a Golarion Monster does not necessarily mean a Golarion Exclusive monster so much as a Golarion Appropriate monster.
Maybe, but this line in the rules -- "Entry must be a new Golarion monster (not world-neutral or set in a world other than Golarion)." -- would make me very hesitant to not have something tied in awfully well to Golarion. I suspect that wouldn't be the top factor voters decide on if a monster's generally awesome, but I think it will be a factor for a lot of people. I'd think more along the lines I'm writing for Inner Sea Bestiary 2 than Bestiary 5.

SKR directed us to this post he wrote in 2012 regarding what constitutes a "Golarion Monster."

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8 aka Jiggy

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But do the voters know that?

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8

Hopefully. It'll be interesting to see how close to that line of "too vague/too specific" designers in round 2 will be willing to go. An excess of expository setting information can be just as clunky in a monster stat block as it is when talking about magic items.

Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8

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Jacob Kellogg wrote:
quibblemuch wrote:
Is there, by chance, a Paizo style guide available somewhere?
Wouldn't four Bestiaries worth of stat blocks, plus the copy-paste template in the R2 rules, be enough of a style guide? Or are you asking about something else?

You mean to reverse engineer the vocabulary, usage, and grammar conventions for the Paizo corporate voice? I could get close, yes, but if such a document already existed, why duplicate the effort?

The template stuff is the easy part. Things like whether you say "make a Will save DC 15..." or "attempt a DC 15 Will Save..." or "must succeed at a save (DC 15, Will)..." or "the target of the effect must roll a Will save (DC 15)..."

NOTE: I do know the example above has been addressed in this thread. As you can see, there are a lot of variations possible on describing even the simplest of mechanics.

Another example of the kind of thing I am talking about would be the convention of starting the italicized description lines with "This..." - that too has been addressed, but illustrates the kind of conventions that allow one to imitoot Paizospeak exarctly.

Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8

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After reading this thread, I'm beginning to regret my test stat block, Mythic Vampire Goblin What Only Lives in Absalom.

Also off the drawing board: a giant crab that wears buildings like hats, thus technically fulfilling the "monster lives in the city" criteria in the same fashion that a hermit crab's environment could technically be "soda can."

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