| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
Yeah, that'll really show that greedy bastard.
"Man I really don't appreciate you giving me a 40% discount on everything. That's greedy on your part. Get out, we don't want you here."
"All right guys let's go to the store and buy our gear. I mean, it costs 40% more but at least we don't have to put up with that money grubbing a+$#*~+ any more."
Shifty, we met on an internet forum, the modern-day tavern. Orfamay Quest, you, the black raven, and I are now a party. Time to go to Canada and attack whatever natives and wildlife we see as part of an IRL dungeon crawl. Start making me some tanks or I feed you to a moose.
Sir, yes, sir! I assume you're sitting in the commander's seat?
I will ask a simple question : why does he have to craft items for the party ?
He isn't.
He gets his fair share of the rewards, what he doesn't get is 'extra'.
So, you're saying he will sacrifice the crafting of his own "power" (scribing scrolls, crafting his +INT item, his +CON belt, ...), to the benefit of others for free ?
It's not his standard job here (casting spells), but sacrificing its own way of gaining personal power to make other gaining power.
I repeat : amongst friends, I could understand it. I would do it without even being ask to : seems normal and legit.
In a random group of adventurers that were recruited by someone for a mission ? NO WAY.
In the OP's case : the DM handwave the crafting time, so it has reduced sacrifice. In usual campaigns, time is the most limiting factor for crafting.
If the OP doesn't agree with the fee, he only has to take the feat with her character.
Commander's seat? That's a funny way to refer to your saddle, trooper. Tanks are clearly mounts, not vehicles. I expect them to be sentient, because there are sentient tanks in the Bestiary. They must also have infinite ammunition, because that's how they're statted.
Are you an archer tankrider, a ragelancepounce tankrider, or a flamethrower tankrider? If you don't want it, I'm planning on being the ragelancepounce tankrider.
Commander's seat? That's a funny way to refer to your saddle, trooper.
Sir, just making sure I know which saddle is yours, sir. It's the one with the magic jar side effect affecting you and your mount. But very erratic, sir. We won't notice the difference.
Shifty, we met on an internet forum, the modern-day tavern. Orfamay Quest, you, the black raven, and I are now a party. Time to go to Canada and attack whatever natives and wildlife we see as part of an IRL dungeon crawl. Start making me some tanks or I feed you to a moose.
Well now we are having a more interesting conversation, the one the crafters don't seem to want to have, and that is about what we are doing here and how we are going to sort things out.
Before we start this little foray into Canada to munch on the local flora and fauna, what exactly are our our job roles and how are we dealing with the profits of the group?
There's an enormous difference between a group coming together because our tavern was over-run by bears and we were figthing for survival and banded together as opposed to 'lets form a party and go off on an expedition'.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Magic jar can only affect creatures with souls, and I sold mine long ago in exchange for the ability to summon one hungry moose at will.
I repeat : amongst friends, I could understand it. I would do it without even being ask to : seems normal and legit.
In a random group of adventurers that were recruited by someone for a mission ? NO WAY.
And this argument is fair enough, but that is NOT the argument the Crafters are forwarding, they are looking to charge the 'amongst friends' group. Random dudes? no way, charge appropriately.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Shifty, we met on an internet forum, the modern-day tavern. Orfamay Quest, you, the black raven, and I are now a party. Time to go to Canada and attack whatever natives and wildlife we see as part of an IRL dungeon crawl. Start making me some tanks or I feed you to a moose.Well now we are having a more interesting conversation, the one the crafters don't seem to want to have, and that is about what we are doing here and how we are going to sort things out.
Well, we're going to start this conversation with my saying that I will craft for you at a price I see fit or not at all. I will sell you my skills as a combat caster for an even share of the loot.
And then we're going to stop the conversation, because if the next words out of your mouth are anything but "yes, oh great and powerful illithid," I'm not going to be listening to them.
So if he refuses to craft for you, you withhold his treasure?He gets the same amount of treasure you'd have given a fighter who refused to fight (or anyone else who refused to do their job). And then he'd be kicked from the party.
The wizard do more than the fighter and rogue together in the party.
If the crafting part is also included in the "group contract", he should have more than one share of the loot, but almost half of it. The cleric would gain a large part of what's left, and the others share copper and silver.
If an adventurer I just met is angry because I charge him 60% for an item I craft for him... I would just charge him 10% more, each and everytime. I would stop increasing fee when he stops being a jerk.
And this argument is fair enough, but that is NOT the argument the Crafters are forwarding, they are looking to charge the 'amongst friends' group. Random dudes? no way, charge appropriately.
But when I mean random dudes, I also mean the guys you met a week ago with whom you traveled and went on adventures (the typical situation in which you start an AP, and still are at book 2).
Friend =/= adventurers companions.
Well now we are having a more interesting conversation, the one the crafters don't seem to want to have, and that is about what we are doing here and how we are going to sort things out.
As "the Red" in my name may imply, my job will be to continue being a great wyrm red dragon and murdering everything I please how I please. Your role will be to craft whatever I want in exchange for whatever I feel like.
As for our conversation, my side of the conversation goes like Orfamay's, other than "dragon" instead of "illithid" and more cowering and trembling for mercy on your part.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The wizard do more than the fighter and rogue together in the party.
And here we have what it really boils down to, these 'charge the party' people tend to be of the opinion that non Wizards are lesser, and have a total disrespect for other classes.
Well, we're going to start this conversation with my saying that I will craft for you at a price I see fit or not at all. I will sell you my skills as a combat caster for an even share of the loot.
Thanks, we'll come buy stuff off you later. In the meantime we will keep interviewing other candidates looking to make a name for themselves.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Shifty, we met on an internet forum, the modern-day tavern. Orfamay Quest, you, the black raven, and I are now a party. Time to go to Canada and attack whatever natives and wildlife we see as part of an IRL dungeon crawl. Start making me some tanks or I feed you to a moose.
He he. I can help with putting up tents and making coffe.
For a share...
But when I mean random dudes, I also mean the guys you met a week ago with whom you traveled and went on adventures (the typical situation in which you start an AP, and still are at book 2).
Friend =/= adventurers companions.
Would you REALLY travel in a life/death affair with a bunch of randoms you met at the pub last friday night who you didn't know from Joe?
I get that this is a a fast and easy party hook, and it is designed to get the party up and running and 'into the action as fast as possible', but it is the laziest possible 'RP' imaginable. That said, how many people seriously want to spend gaming session after gaming session after gaming session just setting up the party and getting their drills and SOP's sorted out, or do we collectively agree out of game to Meta-handwave and assume that is all done and get on with the game?
The problem is that the meta-handwave has been an accepted format of truncating the less interesting parts down that people have forgotten that the handwave is happening - and as a result see their party members as perfect strangers to exploit for fun and profit, as opposed to a living breathing family.
How many of you seriously sit down and nut out a charter and articles, like real life Pirate crews etc do, or do we just make our assumptions about what splits would happen and that it would all be equal?
If we want to be realistic, what about wear and tear and depreciation of gear? Or is that deemed less interesting and similarly handwaved away?
It seems all this handwaving and truncating 'boring bits' are leading people to forget that they'd still be taking place, but are forgotten about.
All of a sudden we get AVH forgetting he's part of a party and instead thinking he's following a group of customers who he has a monopoly on and can exploit because the Communist state they live in leaves them unable to wangle favours and negotiate better prices elsewhere - that even if they work for the most powerful king in the most powerful Kingdom, that King doesn't wangle the party a single copper of discount in obtaining magic items - even from the Kings own artisans. That the guy who has a 50000 Diplomacy score was unable to negotiate a bulk deal on equipment from an NPC, and that because of the game systems inflexibility and arbitrarily fixed price system, the 'party' crafter now has them over a barrel.
Playing the system at his fellows expense, plain and simple.
And here we have what it really boils down to, these 'charge the party' people tend to be of the opinion that non Wizards are lesser, and have a total disrespect for other classes.
The wizard do more than the fighter and rogue together in the party.
You, uh, don't actually play much, do you?
Non-wizards are less effective, generally.
That's not just my opinion. Look up "linear fighter quadratic wizard" for some detailed analysis. Google for "pathfinder tier system" for detailed analysis of the various classes. Basically, wizard, along with a few other primary caster classes such as cleric and druid, are head and shoulders over any other class in the game both in terms of power and flexibility, to the point where they are often described as game-breaking.
There are several reasons for this, but it basically boils down to fighters can generally do a few things, and they get better at doing those few things. Wizards not only get better at doing things, but they get many more things to do. Wizards not only get better spells -- a fireball going from 5d6 to 10d6 -- but they get more spells (more fireballs) and more powerful spells (going from third level to sixth level).
Sorcerers are slightly less game-breakingly powerful because they don't get as many more spells; a wizard/cleric/druid can cast any spell on the list, but a sorcerer only gets a relatively handful.
But this also means that the casters can overshadow the martials very quickly. What good is a high stealth skill when invisibility gives you a +20 bonus? What use is disable device when you can just cast knock? Why bother with the climb skill when you have levitate, or even fly? With enough scrolls of summon monster you don't even need the fighters around.
Does this mean I don't respect the tier 3 and tier 4 classes? Of course not. Monk, in particular, is one of my favorite classes to play. But I'm not going to pretend that there's anything a vanilla monk does for a party that can't be done more effectively by someone else.
Non-wizards are less effective, generally.
Sure, they ride the shoulders of everyone else who carry them along, and then get good later on and shine. Should we be making their loot allocation based on their level then? At low levels pay them less and then pay more later?
What about performance payment? If the Wizards are so ub3r why don't they just go off on their own or just form whole parties of wizards?
None of that has anything to do with profiteering from crafting though.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
By the very same reasoning, the healer can rightfully withhold his cures and the fighter refuse to draw his weapon as long as they do not get what they consider to be their proper due.
Absolutely. Then, they die for being dumb. The party doesn't die because the crafter doesn't craft.
I repeat : amongst friends, I could understand it. I would do it without even being ask to : seems normal and legit.
In a random group of adventurers that were recruited by someone for a mission ? NO WAY.
And this argument is fair enough, but that is NOT the argument the Crafters are forwarding, they are looking to charge the 'amongst friends' group. Random dudes? no way, charge appropriately.
I think, i am among what you call the Crafters. My argument is "play your character and let the others play theres"
I play in 2 groups atm. In one the Crafter, a cleric, is giving things to the others or crafting for free. That is winning the loyality of the less sofisticatet PCs and undermining my characters, self made Leader role, and it is great.In the other group i play the sole Crafter in a group with several full casters. And my character, would love nothing better than charging the others for crafting ( and saying at home away from adventure). But since he is terryfied by the barbarian, and he is only with the group as part of a sentence he got for Embezzlement, he is doing it for free.
But it is role play that decide this. In other groups we have done differently and so can you it is fine.
I draw the line where others, be it players or the GM, tell me how to play my PC.
|
See, everybody is still forgetting a primary things: crafting feats ARE NOT MEANT TO GENERATE TREMENDOUS WEALTH. The guidelines for crafting state, a single crafting feat does not add more than 25% to WBL (and it scales down with more). Any economies COME OUT OF THE CRAFTERS POCKET. If the GM is following the WBL guidelines, the crafter absorbs all the "saved" gold, which does not leave a lot of wiggle room.
If folks want to play with houserules, great. But the system has safeguards in place that if you just ignore radically change the nature of the game.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items
Search "Adjusting Character Wealth by Level"The GM isnt supposed to allow the WHOLE PARTY to double their gold. The crafter gets a bit extra, and the rest get the advantage of customisability. That's all. If the crafter has 12.5 k WBL, & you have 10k WBL, and you ask him to craft a 20k gp (price) item, THEY have to reabsorb 10 k GP, leaving them with a paltry 2.5 k gp. The advantage of the crafting feat is NOT meant to be money-saving, it's (mostly) meant to be CUSTOMISABILITY.
Here's the paizo example:
"Example: The Character Wealth by Level table states that an 8th-level character should have about 33,000 gp worth of items. Using the above 25% rule, Patrick's 8th-level wizard with Craft Wondrous Item is allowed an additional 8,250 gp worth of crafted wondrous items. If he uses his feat to craft items for the rest of the party, any excess value the other PCs have because of those items should count toward Patrick's additional 8,250 gp worth of crafted items."What your forgeting is those rules are from ultimate campaign- an OPTIONAL book, your shouting it like its core raw. Like you said there guidlines. I doubt if the OP's GM thinks downtime rules is to complex than wpl is probably too complex as well.
Honestly a lot of these posts just sound like children bickering. The guy is free to play his character however he feels just like everyone else. So he's playing a...
Hm. You do make me realize I'm unsure where these rules come from. I'm using them myself and they do seriously curb crafting abuse. Sorry for pushing it so hard, but it's definitly a system that makes crafting work. Yes, it's from ultimate campaign, but seriously, item crafting needs very calm reflection before allowing it in a game. I guess I got pissed because there are a set of rules that make it more balanced, but nobody uses them. Sorry if I lost my cool.
I do appreciate your point about the party controlling the use of your resources. Nobody likes being controlled, not by the GM or other players.
PC Wealth By Level: If a PC has an item crafting feat, does a crafted item count as its Price or its Cost?
It counts as the item's Cost, not the Price. This comes into play in two ways.
If you're equipping a higher-level PC, you have to count crafted items at their Cost. Otherwise the character isn't getting any benefit for having the feat. Of course, the GM is free to set limits in equipping the character, such as "no more than 40% of your wealth can be used for armor" (instead of the "balanced approach" described on page 400 where the PC should spend no more than 25% on armor).
If you're looking at the party's overall wealth by level, you have to count crafted items at their Cost. Otherwise, if you counted crafted items at their Price, the crafting character would look like she had more wealth than appropriate for her level, and the GM would have to to bring this closer to the target gear value by reducing future treasure for that character, which means eventually that character has the same gear value as a non-crafting character--in effect neutralizing any advantage of having that feat at all.
—Sean K Reynolds, 01/14/12
The rules are in the FAQ, they pre-date the Ultimate Campaign rulebook by more than a year.
UCamp expanded on that, saying that you can give some of your extra WBL to other characters, but at the expense of your own.
So making s~~% for you at cost is "his job" now?So if he refuses to craft for you, you withhold his treasure?He gets the same amount of treasure you'd have given a fighter who refused to fight (or anyone else who refused to do their job). And then he'd be kicked from the party.
Just like a fighter taking the hits from a monster (or killing it), or a cleric healing or a rogue disarming a trap, yeah.
That's not just my opinion. Look up "linear fighter quadratic wizard" for some detailed analysis. Google for "pathfinder tier system" for detailed analysis of the various classes. Basically, wizard, along with a few other primary caster classes such as cleric and druid, are head and shoulders over any other class in the game both in terms of power and flexibility, to the point where they are often described as game-breaking.
Yeah, but that doesn't occur until around 17th level- or at the very least what most call 'high level'. Few games are played there, and this game doesn't seem to be at that level.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
DrDeth, the original poster has already explicitly said that the wizard is doing his job and more, since he is dominating the encounters. Please explain why you believe that solving all the party's problems forever is insufficient and he must also craft any and all gear they want.
Or, to illustrate the scenario:
Wizard: "I teleported us to the big bad scary fortress of doom, skipping lots of potentially lethal encounters, saving our lives."
Fighter: "I got hit some and did some damage, saving the cleric from having to use Cure X Wounds on multiple people and saving the wizard one blast spell."
Wizard: "I cast charm person on the BBEG and now the world is safe."
Healer: "I healed 26 hit points."
Wizard: "I cast charm person on the king to save us from being executed and also we are now rulers of everything."
Rogue: "I disarmed a poison trap that would have required the healer to cast remove poison once."
Wizard: "I will take the exact same percentage of treasure as everyone else."
Others: "We want you to spend your time crafting us stuff so we can pay less than market price and still have our own time left over to make more money."
Wizard: "Okay, but can I make a bit of profit off of that? You'll still pay much less than market price, and I want to make money in my free time too."
Others: "OMG NO NO EVIL EVIL BADWRONGFUN NO EVIL EVIIIIIIIIIIL NO NO BAD ROLEPLAYER NO."
Lemme guess... he's a wizard who is also expected to cast Haste every fight and have spells prepared to handle OOC situations because no one wanted to play a rogue?Yeah, he's a wizard that dominates the game via combat and doesn't makes the game less fun for other people. He is the main damage dealer and this is because he gets the money from other party members and crafts numerous wondrous items. There is a rogue and the rogue does not do anything since the wizard takes care of the situation before the rogue can even do anything. He wants to be the spotlight and he made his character to be the main driving force of the party and shadow everyone else. He only heals himself and doesn't cast spells to anyone else for the reason of "I have limited spells". Also he threatens to kill the party members if they piss him off IRL and now he has raised the price to 75% and is now screwing everyone else and now we are all at his mercy.
TL;DR You are correct, he is that kind of wizard
This combined with your comments about the GM make me think you will be better off leaving the game.
If i got it rigth and you ment that he was ruining your fun and not the opposite.I suggest that next time you join a group make sure you have some sort of metagame contract. That way you can all be on the same page about things like Inter party conflict and expectations to the story and all.
If you dont feel like leaving the game, i suggest you talk about it with the group OOG.
Of cause no one have any rigth to threathen the other players about killing there PCs.
But you can charge for crafting or just about anything else.and skuffer the concequenses. At least in my game.
And the only thing a PC need to bring to the table is somthing that makes the story better.
Edit: because i an no spelling wizard
|
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Apparently only the guys making magic items should slave for the party good.
Go back and read the Op's posts. The DM handwaves all that. Downtime is just handwaved. There is no "slaving away".
Now sure, if you're using other books, and one PC is crafting magic items, while the others are off getting more HP or something in their downtime, sure, the crafter is giving something up. Not in this case.
So working to gather the magical capital isn't slaving away even for the other guys, right?
It very curious how people is willing to toss away the crafter downtime as non important but is against spending their downtime for the same purpose.Either the downtime is unimportant for everyone or it is important for everyone, but instead you guys consistently use double standards.
"My downtime is untouchable, the crafter downtime is a party resource."
And the say the crafter is greedy.
Go look into a mirror.
Yeah, but that doesn't occur until around 17th level- or at the very least what most call 'high level'. Few games are played there, and this game doesn't seem to be at that level.
Actually, at about 13th level. More accurately, that's where "the gap starts to become ridiculous." It's noticeable well before then.
What can a fifth level fighter do that a first level fighter can't? He doesn't even have an additional iterative attack. He can swing his weapon, once, with a slightly greater hit probability. He has a few more feats that may have given him the ability to avoid AoO, but that more likely just added modifiers to what he could already do at first.
A fifth level wizard, on the other hand, can fly past all the encounters, without even being noticed (invisibility), knock open the locked treasure chest without a key, and then carry it all out with his enchanted bull's strength.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Ok, but what RIGHT do you have to use his feat? Again, somepeople like to ROLE PLAY their characters and, last I checked, not everybody is a goody goody NG or LG guy that does things for everybody else "from the bottom of his heart."
Because we are paying for that Feat.
Because the party is carrying a caster who isn't optimised for combat etc, and therefore doesn't contribute as effectively, and now we need to carry him. The compensation for us doing the extra work he shirks during the adventure is him doing the rest of his fair share out of it.
Don't like that? Don't be a subpar caster/crafter.
I suppose that in your gaming group you do regular sessions auditing each other character sheet and asking people to retrain what isn't adequately optimized or to leave the group, right?
If it's just a gear upgrade, I'd feel okay being charged for it. It's their "day job", not their adventuring job.
Though 'just a gear upgrade' means that the player who is sticking his money into better gear (instead of beer and hookers) becomes more effective at doing their job, which in turn builds a better and more capable party, which in turn brings the crafter more and larger loot shares.
This is where the crafters are trying to have many bites of the cherry when they want to charge on top.
The stuff that the crafters are producing for party members are not 'luxury goods', they are producing tools of trade which they personally directly benefit from.
I suppose that to keeping line with your way of thinking, your character never get emotionally attacked to anyone outside the party, right? It is a exploitable weakness.
Never buy anything that isn't "adventure relate", you are wasting party money. Eat only frugal meals, never drink any alcoholic beverage (waste of money and it make you a easy target), never get a data, it can be a trap and is a wasteful expense, never ... I should go on?Maybe you like playing the obsessive guy that live only to adventuring but other people like to play something a bit more rounded out.
Yeah, but that doesn't occur until around 17th level- or at the very least what most call 'high level'. Few games are played there, and this game doesn't seem to be at that level.
That's not just my opinion. Look up "linear fighter quadratic wizard" for some detailed analysis. Google for "pathfinder tier system" for detailed analysis of the various classes. Basically, wizard, along with a few other primary caster classes such as cleric and druid, are head and shoulders over any other class in the game both in terms of power and flexibility, to the point where they are often described as game-breaking.
In my experience the "casters out grow martials " thing is dependent on the GM but it usually happens with level 4 or 5 spells.
In my experience the "casters out grow martials " thing is dependent on the GM but it usually happens with level 4 or 5 spells.
Yeah, but that doesn't occur until around 17th level- or at the very least what most call 'high level'. Few games are played there, and this game doesn't seem to be at that level.
I agree. First level casters are pathetic scrubs and the martials totally outshine them. The second level spells bring them roughly up to par, and while the third level spells are powerful, that's about when the pure martials get their second iterative, which is probably the single biggest powerup they get (proportionally) in the entire system. Fourth level spells are where the casters win and win forever.
Apparently only the guys making magic items should slave for the party good.
Go back and read the Op's posts. The DM handwaves all that. Downtime is just handwaved. There is no "slaving away".
Now sure, if you're using other books, and one PC is crafting magic items, while the others are off getting more HP or something in their downtime, sure, the crafter is giving something up. Not in this case.
So working to gather the magical capital isn't slaving away even for the other guys, right?
It very curious how people is willing to toss away the crafter downtime as non important but is against spending their downtime for the same purpose.
Either the downtime is unimportant for everyone or it is important for everyone, but instead you guys consistently use double standards.
"My downtime is untouchable, the crafter downtime is a party resource."
And the say the crafter is greedy.
Go look into a mirror.
They dont play with Down time. The GM just say 2 weeks passed and the sword is ready.
|
|
Raven, this is an OOC issue. IC, the answer is already "roleplay it how your characters would do it." The question is whether the players themselves are at fault for trying to charge for crafting. I say no.That I understand quite clearly. What escapes me is why those who also think it is ok suddenly see a fault when the player of a non-crafting PC does the same kind of shenanigans (ie, asking for more than his fair share of the loot).
Also, I'm interested in how your character would know that the crafter is charging more than cost. If you're also a crafter, why aren't you crafting it yourself? If you're not a crafter, why would you know how much it costs to make an item?The character would not know it. So the answer is METAGAME. Which is also the answer for how almost all PC parties come and stay together adventuring, even though they usually are perfect strangers with zero reason to trust each other.
You want to be paid to do your combat role? Fine.
But remember that the wizard will be paid for his combat role and his crafting role. Like the fighter that craft masterwork weapon and armours for the party get paid for his mundane crafting role, or the guy training the party horses get compensated for his off combat labour.You guys are comparing in combat duties to off combat leisure time as if it was all "in combat" time, but only for the crafters.
Yeah, but that doesn't occur until around 17th level- or at the very least what most call 'high level'. Few games are played there, and this game doesn't seem to be at that level.
That's not just my opinion. Look up "linear fighter quadratic wizard" for some detailed analysis. Google for "pathfinder tier system" for detailed analysis of the various classes. Basically, wizard, along with a few other primary caster classes such as cleric and druid, are head and shoulders over any other class in the game both in terms of power and flexibility, to the point where they are often described as game-breaking.
or by level 5-7 (with things like Fly, Invisibility, Mirror image, stinking cloud, haste, web, black tentacles, solid fog, arcane eye, wall of ice, enervation, summon monster III and IV, ... )
Sure, a low level wizard won't be able to know all those spells everyday, but a good spellbook and some free slots can bring you very, very far. The bigger your spellbook, the greater the versatility.
A wizard doesn't need to use Timestop, Shapechange, Clone, Wish, ... to be useful, or even annihilate obstacles to a group.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Actually, that would be a pretty cool mechanic. Some way to establish yourself and get access to a number of randomly generated items being sold for half value. I should write that up.
Actually, that would be a pretty cool mechanic. Some way to establish yourself and get access to a number of randomly generated items being sold for half value. I should write that up.
Already available in Ultimate Campaign.
Ha, wow, 60% makes you greedy? I feel bad now, my first group I ever played a dedicated crafter with, I ended up charging 80-90% for.
The only thing I can defend myself with was that I was watching a lot of Pawn Stars at the time and expected them to haggle with me. Surprisingly enough, only one person ever did. Closer to the end of the campaign, I brought my prices down to roughly 75%, but that still is high and away more than what most people seem to ask for.
I'm still unrepentant, though. We were playing into high levels and I had used all the wealth I accrued from my teammates to buy a bunch of diamonds and spam Wishes at the BBEG. So satisfying.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Eh, it's not quite the same. There's a very small chance that an event will be the one where an adventurer is trying to sell a mis-identified item. Other than that, all you do is produce small amounts of money or capital over time unrelated to actual buying and selling items.
I mean more along the lines of another, likely smaller, set of randomly generated magic items being sold by adventurers, which you can purchase for half price. Could be interesting.
Actually, that would be a pretty cool mechanic. Some way to establish yourself and get access to a number of randomly generated items being sold for half value. I should write that up.
Obviously there would be a steady stream of the common items.
The rules in UC are more about selling items, not buying them, unless I missed where it explicitly lets you set yourself up as a fence.
The only thing I can defend myself with was that I was watching a lot of Pawn Stars at the time and expected them to haggle with me. Surprisingly enough, only one person ever did. Closer to the end of the campaign, I brought my prices down to roughly 75%, but that still is high and away more than what most people seem to ask for.
Except in your game you were the ONLY Pawnbroker in the universe, and your monopoly was protected by RAW. Not entirely fair is it?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The only thing I can defend myself with was that I was watching a lot of Pawn Stars at the time and expected them to haggle with me. Surprisingly enough, only one person ever did. Closer to the end of the campaign, I brought my prices down to roughly 75%, but that still is high and away more than what most people seem to ask for.Except in your game you were the ONLY Pawnbroker in the universe, and your monopoly was protected by RAW. Not entirely fair is it?
Goodness me, no. Not in the slightest. But I was the only one who rolled up a caster and dropped as many feats as he could into item creation. We even had a discussion where we pretty much unanimously agreed that with the feats I took and the days I spent to actually make the item justified that I was looking for a profit. In retrospect, I should've taken less, but it still worked out alright.
The GM had a literal magic mart at our base of operations, but even when people haggled with him, I was still the better price in town.
Eh, it's not quite the same. There's a very small chance that an event will be the one where an adventurer is trying to sell a mis-identified item. Other than that, all you do is produce small amounts of money or capital over time unrelated to actual buying and selling items.
Just take the money stream and convert them into items. Instead of earning 300gp, you have "earned" (consults book) the option to buy two potions of see invisible at half price (150 gp each instead of 300).
Just take the money stream and convert them into items. Instead of earning 300gp, you have "earned" (consults book) the option to buy two potions of see invisible at half price (150 gp each instead of 300).
What page is this on?
The price for items? You can see the price for potions here.
The 300 gp? I pulled that out of thin air. The investment rules are here, and the exact amount you make per year depends on what kind of business you're in and how heavily you're invested in it.
You wanted a fence? "Fence" isn't listed explicitly, but "imports" is, and that seems fairly close (buying and selling goods). I'd guess that "fence" is a high-risk, high-reward operation, so we'll use the "exotic" version of the imports.
Normally, you get 5% back on your investment, so if you have 5,000 gp invested, you'd make 250 gp per year. There's a die roll, though. If you roll well, you could make up to 2500 or more per year. If you roll badly, you get nothing, and if you roll badly often enough, you lose your stake.
Non-wizards are less effective, generally.Sure, they ride the shoulders of everyone else who carry them along, and then get good later on and shine. Should we be making their loot allocation based on their level then? At low levels pay them less and then pay more later?
What about performance payment? If the Wizards are so ub3r why don't they just go off on their own or just form whole parties of wizards?
None of that has anything to do with profiteering from crafting though.
Because not everyone wants to play a wizard....
A Party of 4 wizards and 1 Arcanist could very easily run through a AP. Especially if each of them focused on different things (I suggest 1 arcanist because they make the funniest and meanist Anti-caster techs around when focused on Greater Dispel Magic/Dispel Magic). A Conjurer (or summoner class if you feel like major cheese) to fill the "tank" role and CC, a divination for scouting and "rogue" skills, an Enchanter for the "face" and CC, and a specced blaster for damage and CC (Dazing Spell=WIN).
Heck... 1 Wizard could easily crush most places. Ever heard of the Blood Money Sno-Cone Wish Factory? A single wizard could have near infinite wealth, god level stats, and infinite wish spells on stand by for whatever he may need in the future....
I am sorry but Fighters at high levels are STILL weaker than a Mage. Heck, the fighter is BEST at low levels. Why? Because the Wizard does not have his game breaking abilities yet. Hey fighter, meet Mage's Disjunction. Oh what is that? You can't fly now? That sucks.... Now how about you make a will save? Oh! You have poor will? That sucks... I guess your mine now (dominate... I.e. A 3RD LEVEL SPELL)...
Just like a fighter taking the hits from a monster (or killing it), or a cleric healing or a rogue disarming a trap, yeah.So making s~~% for you at cost is "his job" now?So if he refuses to craft for you, you withhold his treasure?He gets the same amount of treasure you'd have given a fighter who refused to fight (or anyone else who refused to do their job). And then he'd be kicked from the party.
So what you are saying is that the Wizard is responsible for 60% of EVERYTHING.... I hope the fighter is not getting much loot because he is doing a whole lot of nothing... He is hitting things and getting hit... WOOOOOOHOOOO!!!!! Wizard can do that too (Summon Monster/Gate)... he can ALSO buff the crap out of them.... AND lock down the enemy... Or he could just say screw it and bypass the whole encounter itself (more than a few spells allow you to tie up an opponent long enough to simply walk right by it and ignore it).