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Your right to play antisocially ends where it starts to harm the party dynamics. If you want to play a miser or thief you're welcome to play Elder Scrolls or Dragon Age alone. If you want to play in a group setting you're obligated to play a character that doesn't harm the group dynamics.
Except, that isn't happening.
The party is still getting a 40% discount. Is that as good as a 50% discount? No. Is it still a MAJOR discount? Yes. The party is still coming out WAY ahead, which isn't 'harming group dynamics' because everybody is still coming out ahead.
Frag, this isn't just fair, this is MORE than fair. Fair would be charging the standard market price. It doesn't become unfair until he's charging more than that.
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You have no right to any extra wealth as a result of the feats taken by the caster this was explicitly stated in the FAQ that the only additional wealth from the feat is solely for the crafter him/herself he has the option of giving you anything he so desires but has no obligations to do so if you don't like it buy it full price like you would in every other game ever and he'll craft only for himself thus the feat will function as intended and only provide it's benefits to the user.
Sell you some commas for 5 silver.
The 25%, I have been putting aside in a special party-fund that I've been managing. From this fund, I craft things like consumables, such as elixirs of hiding or magic ammunition, or use it as a sort of rainy-day fund.
Further, some people may wonder why this is necessary or beneficial. Well, I've been playing the game a long time and I've experimented with lots of different methods and playstyles when it comes to party-funds, and I find this one is the most successful.
A traditional "party fund" is often too much hassle to deal with. If all loot acquired is pooled, then people begin to get funny about who is taking most of the loot for their "needs". Likewise, if you split money and then let them pay for their own stuff, people often forget to allot currency to things like consumables and such.
To explain how this works, I'm going to use a real-life example. When I was a young child, my family collected their change (pennies, nickles, dimes, quarters, etc) into a large glass jar. We went to Disney World primarily on the money that built up in that jar over time, because that little stuff adds up over time.
In our current campaign, it meant that when we met an NPC willing to front us some healing wands at-cost, I was able to fork over the goods from my rainy day fund and everyone was happy. It meant when we discovered we were going to have to deal with *special NPC* in about a week, my character was buried in her room upgrading people's magic items and spitting out *special NPC-bane arrows*. It means that I was able to craft special items like a cauldron that would allow the party to assume a transformative disguise by drinking from the special brew made from it.
A lot of this saving trick is psychological. You don't look at it like you're paying the crafter more than you could, you look at it like you're getting 25% off your items and don't have to worry about finding someone to craft specific things or upgrade your items to the way you want them. As the crafter it's my choice as to what to do with the money afterwords (which thus far has gone towards consumables and specialty goods).
This trick can be done in real life too. When you're buying stuff, take your change and put it in a big jar or something, and get an electronic coin sorter (or get ready to roll your own at some point). When the jar gets full, roll it and see how many Christmas Presents / Birthday Presents / Movies you can go see with your friends you have in there. It's money that's off the radar.
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Currently, in my game, I'm playing crafter and am charging 60% for the magic items that I craft for the party.
One of the party members is complaining about it, saying it's unfair.
Personally I find it a bit greedy on the party member's part
The party member counters my argument by saying "I'm another player, I should get what I want for free!
Is it right, as a member of the party, to demand more when he's already getting 40% off the item?
I agree, Mr. Wizard.
This thread is particularly relevant since I recently started playing an Eberron artificer.
The entire point of the class is to craft magic items. This is no mere feat investment. It's the core of a class.
Eberron artificers are a lot of fun. Admittedly their main super power is non-existent in PF (the ability to craft magic items by making really high/hard skill checks) but I'm actually happy about that. It cuts down on the weirdness of those rules and just lets you focus on being a sweet item artisan with lots of crafting feats and such.
Are you getting a crafting pool of XP * 5 = gp? :)
I agree, Mr. Wizard.Currently, in my game, I'm playing crafter is charging 60% for the magic items that I craft for the party.
One of the party members is complaining about it, saying it's unfair.
Personally I find it a bit greedy on the party member's part
The party member counters my argument by saying "I'm another player, I should get what I want for free!
Is it right, as a member of the party, to demand more when he's already getting 40% off the item?
Personally, I find the idea that someone else has to do anything for you to be kind of a jerk idea. If I have a friend who can craft magic items, I don't expect them to craft magic items for me. It's entirely within that player/character's right to use their feat to enhance only themselves (investing their time and their money doing their thing). At worst, I might look at them as a possible means of acquiring gear that's difficult to purchase one day in the future.
If the player is willing to craft items for me at a discount, that is nothing but player generosity. Generosity I am thankful for, as I should darn well be. My dad often repairs people's automobiles for super-cheap (often charging only the cost for the parts) as a favor, or a gift to people. I would be incredibly angry if anyone who knew my dad was to just expect him to drop everything he was doing and work for the cost of the expenses only.
In the same vein, I would be irritated to no end if the people I work on computers for (as a favor, mind you) expected me to drop what I was doing and go to their house and fix their computer for the cost of the gas it takes to drive there. If I do that for you, it's because I do, not because I'm expected to. I don't even have a set price for my services (when asked how much will it be, I tell them that they can decide that, and I usually get between $15-40 depending on how long I was there).
Not one person has been such a jerk as to not pay me for my services when I let them decide on the price. I'm plenty happy with what they want to pay me, because it's usually plenty for the job I did (even if I could be charging them some sort of standardized rate).
No thanks those commas are total ripoffs, they're pretty much just lazy periods. Also so sue me I'm multitasking and wasn't thinking about punctuation I think you can probably get the point.Sell you some commas for 5 silver.
No, no I didn't. I found that sentence utterly incomprehensible.
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If you don't like the idea if paying 10% for his time, how about a 10% fee to get the item of your choice crafted?
(Of course with unlimited magic marts that is less of a benefit.)
If you don't like the idea if paying 10% for his time, how about a 10% fee to get the item of your choice crafted?
(Of course with unlimited magic marts that is less of a benefit.)
I dunno. Even if I could purchase any item, the prospect of 40% off is just good sense.
This thread again?
Went to several hundred posts last time :)
I'll just restate my argument again - "No, you charge cost price".
The 'time' argument is particularly ridiculous in a game where time is abstracted and is handwaved away.
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This thread again?
Went to several hundred posts last time :)
I'll just restate my argument again - "No, you charge cost price".
The 'time' argument is particularly ridiculous in a game where time is abstracted and is handwaved away.
That doesn't sound like an argument so much as a commandment.
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the guy wasted the feats and the skill points to craft items, crafting for 60% price is fair enough when you are getting a 40% discount over the merchant, it's still a discount, plus it compensates the crafter, both for his or her feat investment, his or her skill checks, and for his or her time investment.
This thread again?
Went to several hundred posts last time :)
I'll just restate my argument again - "No, you charge cost price".
The 'time' argument is particularly ridiculous in a game where time is abstracted and is handwaved away.
It's also ridiculous that they bother to put food and water prices in the book in a game where that's just handwaved away or that they put a spell in the book solely to clean yourself up when that's just handwaved away.
It's called roleplaying and trust me call up your friend and ask him to do a job for you at cost with no pay or compensation whatsoever 20 or 30 times and see how likely he is to say yes. That is roughly the likelihood that any properly roleplayed character is going to have of saying yes.
So I'm going to go ahead and say, not charging without any other reason is in fact bad roleplaying, and it's violating the intention of the rules as stated by the devs, and it's bad for party and game balance, because that feat actually becomes a negative for the person taking it. So all in all I'm going to have to say I respectfully disagree Shifty.
See, now I'm going to have to disagree with you. (Although, first let me say I'm fine with the crafter charging). My group doesn't use crafting too terribly often but we have never charged a "fee." However we don't really play the "random group of adventurers" troupe either. The wizard would never think to charge other party members anymore than the fighter charging the group to use power attack. Our games are usually people banded together to solve a mission. If you want to go real life, ask any military personnel if they would charge somebody in their platoon for a job that would contribute to a mission's success. Again, I'm fine with the caster charging a little extra. I just don't like the "bad role-playing" label. (In this particular case. I'm sure I've thrown it around in other cases.)
..... If you want to go real life, ask any military personnel if they would charge somebody in their platoon for a job that would contribute to a mission's success....
The soldiers are all usually payed for every little bit they do to contributet to the succes of any mission. And they get payed more in they have special skills or spend the weekend.
And it is common practice to but and sell things and services among soldiers and most kinds of coworkers really.
..... If you want to go real life, ask any military personnel if they would charge somebody in their platoon for a job that would contribute to a mission's success....The soldiers are all usually payed for every little bit they do to contributet to the succes of any mission. And they get payed more in they have special skills or spend the weekend.
And it is common practice to but and sell things and services among soldiers and most kinds of coworkers really.
Among soldiers. What about those specifically on a mission together?
"Hey, Johnson, you're the explosives expert. Can you rig up some bombs to use in the attack tomorrow?"
"I can but it'll cost ya."
I don't know. Just doesn't seem right to me.
I can tell you guys as a sailor, Hook ups and the ability to "pay" for things withs (i.e. How many monsters/Mountain dews/ect.) can get you a VERY far way...
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When my brother and his friends go out, everyone ponies up like $5-10 dollars to give to the driver to pay for gas and such. In some cases, it can even lead to the driver making a profit for taking them out in his car (since if he's got 3 other people in the car and they all give him a $10 for gas and he only uses $20, he gets $10).
They are friends. They do things together. They still don't treat the driver like he and his car are their personal taxi.
Every hour that is spent crafting something is an hour of that character's day that he does not get back. Yes, that's very hand-wavy, but the fact is the character could be doing something else. Even if those things are doing things like seeing the sights, or hanging out with people.
My witch for example spent the majority of their week of downtime in one of the largest cities in Irrisen upgrading her companions' gear, crafting magical arrows for the party's archer, and working on tools for the upcoming guerrilla-battle that was coming.
The other characters did whatever they wanted. Heck, one of them even went on a date with a human-formed winter wolf that he met with (bards man, bards).
Chiming in from the military side of things, I was in the military, and I can tell you first hand that I used to pay someone in my unit to roll my cammie sleeves for me just because he had the best looking sleeves in the platoon. It was only a few bucks, but his skill was for sale, and mine was sadly lacking.
There is no such thing as free. Especially in the military.
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So the whole argument is that this "bad roleplayer", "greedy person (character or player your pick)" is charging you an extra 10% from the cost of creating items for your group and still adventures with you guys to leech your xp (which in roleplaying terms is an invalid argument) and share the loot of every encounter he participated too.
My suggestion to this "evil" wizard if he reads this thread.
You can always charge them the market price of the item you crafted for them.
You also can bargain with them before creating the item.
Of course you could play with their rules and sell the item to them for its creation cost and of course enforce yourself your GM (the one with the bad decisions regarding time spent for crafting) then politely inform them that while they adventure you will stay back to craft the items requested, even spent extra time to speed up the procedure for your good friends - best clients (obviously a bluff) but as good friends themselves should keep a share of the loot for you too since you are also part of the group.
In the mean time of course after spending 8 hours per day crafting, you are free to spent your time enjoying life within a safe (compared to a dungeon) town roleplaying with the locals NPCs sell your spells as a professional caster to those in need of your services (besides your good friends/party members) have some drinks food and fun with the tavern wenches... pick your poison.
I'll end my suggestions to you dear Wizard because I feel that if I continue I'll lead myself to the dark side.
P.S. To the OP, don't bad mouth your GM for his choices regarding speeding up the game to minimize downtime and maximizing the fun of his players, if you don't like it don't play... period.
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..... If you want to go real life, ask any military personnel if they would charge somebody in their platoon for a job that would contribute to a mission's success....The soldiers are all usually payed for every little bit they do to contributet to the succes of any mission. And they get payed more in they have special skills or spend the weekend.
And it is common practice to but and sell things and services among soldiers and most kinds of coworkers really.Among soldiers. What about those specifically on a mission together?
"Hey, Johnson, you're the explosives expert. Can you rig up some bombs to use in the attack tomorrow?"
"I can but it'll cost ya."I don't know. Just doesn't seem right to me.
"Johnson we have the summer of. How about you built me a new gym it will make more fit for the next mission? You are a carpenter after all so you have to."
"..."Does that sound rigth to you?
...
P.S. To the OP, don't bad mouth your GM for his choices regarding speeding up the game to minimize downtime and maximizing the fun of his players, if you don't like it don't play... period.
+1 to this.
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Why is crafting so special compared to the rest of the things our characters do with our feats and class abilities?
"If I have to pay for your crafting, why shouldn't you pay me to get healed?"
"Buff spells? Sure, but we have to break out the spell casting services prices."
"Breath of life? Honestly, guys, it is never going to benefit me directly, so I want that 50*CL every day you want me to prepare it."
"Hey mister wizard-man? See dat bit ogre commin chargin' us? Me want lotsa gold to stand in da way!"
All in all, charging trusted friends for services, easily opens up a can of worms. While crafting seems more reasonable than most of these examples, the fact is that most players/characters make choices, use ressources, and take actions that benefit the entire group, and not just themselves.
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Why is crafting so special compared to the rest of the things our characters do with our feats and class abilities?
"If I have to pay for your crafting, why shouldn't you pay me to get healed?"
"Buff spells? Sure, but we have to break out the spell casting services prices."
"Breath of life? Honestly, guys, it is never going to benefit me directly, so I want that 50*CL every day you want me to prepare it."
"Hey mister wizard-man? See dat bit ogre commin chargin' us? Me want lotsa gold to stand in da way!"
All in all, charging trusted friends for services, easily opens up a can of worms. While crafting seems more reasonable than most of these examples, the fact is that most players/characters make choices, use ressources, and take actions that benefit the entire group, and not just themselves.
There is a big difference between a standard action and spending your downtime crafting stuff for someone because they want you to. Just as there's a big difference between walking up to someone and asking for directions and telling them to fix your car.
By the way, my shower needs to be cleaned, so hop to it. We're both peers from the Paizo forums and members of the gaming community. It's legit. Make sure to use scrubbing bubbles.
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How is expecting a PC to use his abilities (including feats) for the benefit of other PCs (and indeed of the party as a whole) with no immediate return such a horrible thing ?
Is it okay then that my fighter refuses to take an AoO at an opponent trying to reach the crafter unless he has received his proper wages as the crafter's part-time bodyguard ?
And if the crafter's player starts complaining, for example after his PC being dropped in the negatives, can I tell him that to think my PC would protect his crafter for free is a truly horrible thing on his part ?
Or maybe that is what I should tell him if my fighter takes the AoO but just does not use one of his feats (say Power Attack) unless paid for it ?
A PC party is based on solidarity and fair treatment for all, which ensures a high level of trust in PCs' life-threatening situations.
It means using your abilities for the benefits of yourself AND the rest of the party as much as you can with no further reward than the knowledge that they will do the same for you.
After all, rather than a crafting feat, the crafter could have taken a Metamagic feat to make his spells more powerful. Would you accept that he refuses to use it unless he is paid for it by the rest of the party ?
And for those who think that it is only fair compensation for the feats and skill points that the crafter "sacrificed", did the group force him to make this "sacrifice" or was it his choice ?
Very similar to the healer actually. Yet I have not seen that many people endorsing a healer that would refuse to heal his party buddies for free.
The group should have tackled the question even before the game began to find a compromise that would be okay for everyone. Now that it has become an issue between players, the GM should help them find a solution that is agreeable for all.
Also, anyone hiding behind the CN alignment to be a jerk is just that. A jerk.
..... If you want to go real life, ask any military personnel if they would charge somebody in their platoon for a job that would contribute to a mission's success....The soldiers are all usually payed for every little bit they do to contributet to the succes of any mission. And they get payed more in they have special skills or spend the weekend.
And it is common practice to but and sell things and services among soldiers and most kinds of coworkers really.Among soldiers. What about those specifically on a mission together?
"Hey, Johnson, you're the explosives expert. Can you rig up some bombs to use in the attack tomorrow?"
"I can but it'll cost ya."I don't know. Just doesn't seem right to me.
"Johnson we have the summer of. How about you built me a new gym it will make more fit for the next mission? You are a carpenter after all so you have to."
"..."Does that sound rigth to you?
No. But like I said that is not the way I typically play.
Edit: just to be clear, I've never been in a game where the adventurers "took the summer off."
@Ashiel and Gnomersy:
You both use real world examples which doesn't really cut it. We are generally speaking of a tight group travelling together on some heroic quest, that might or might not determine the fate of the world.
So " please use your grand powers to make me an epic sword that help us towards that goal", doesn't translate into "please fix my car".
On a personal note, I have helped strangers change a tire a the side of the road, I don't hesitate to help friends who are moving to a new home, or give my stepmother computer lessons, or paint/cut down trees/chop wood/put in a light bulb for my mother. All without asking for money.
Many groups tend to have an even distribution of loot. This is primarily a social contract in the gaming group, not necessarily something that makes sense roleplaying wise. IRL it is relatively rare to have a perfectly even distribution of wealth.
And just to comment on the actual examples:
@Ashiel: Not knowing where in the world you live, I'd probably take you up on visiting and cleaning your shower, since you're paying my expenses to do so ;)
@Gnomersy: If your job was to be a programmer at our company, you'd have a clause in the contract that stated you couldn't work as a programmer somewhere else. While you could have ideas at home just fine, if you were to realize them, you'd need to terminate your employment with us first.
All this arguing makes me remember why I prefer to play supers games.
(Not that I really have a problem with the crafter charging, apart from the simple thought that, were it me, I'd be more concerned in making sure the guy who is the only thing standing between me and hordes of demons/orcs/what have you is well protected than making a few extra bucks on the side, but it's not my character, so hey. But it's more the mentality of it all. I have to deal with people whose sole purpose in life seems to be to eke out every possible dollar they can, wherever they can, in my day to day life; I don't want to have to deal with that at the table, too).
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It is the casters right to charge what he wishes... and no i dont think its a complete jerkish move either but. . . I tend to agree with some of the others. I am making the assumption that when he makes said item, all the costs are coming from the person who needs the item not the crafter.
My best friend works in computers, i have problems i go to him. He doesnt expect payment, (though i make him cake or something or bring a 12 pack to compensate) But he doesnt expect that. But making a profit off of our friendship seems kinda crummy to me. I certainly wouldnt do that, but that me i suppose
Th best way to deal with the OP problem is :
Don't share loot anymore !! Put all the money in a common treasure and everyone asks the group if he can get a specific magic item crafted for him.
My party did this in Kingmaker and that avoids a lot of problems : anyone can get the item they need.
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It's not like the (non-good) wizard charging money harms the group's ability to save the world. It only redistributes money within the group; it doesn't make the party as a whole poorer. And the rest of the group is making money with their Profession skills while he's crafting, right?
It's also worth noting that saying something may or may not save the world is the same as saying nothing. I can say you fixing my car may or may not save the world from a nuclear disaster because the President could call me personally give me the abort codes for the nuclear missile silo in X city nearby and nobody else can take care of this job but me for some crazy reason but I can only get there if I have my car! So you'll fix it right now for free right? I mean it could save the world as we know it!
This part really doesn't make sense.
In most RPG adventures there are high stakes on the success of the group. I couldn't generalize to say that each and everyone is about saving the world, but they do have some end that are exceedingly important for all the characters. Do you disagree?Trying to equate that situations with something absurd, isn't an argument.
The whole "my job is this, not that" is a bit tedious in my opinion. Our protagonist cannot be equated with a day job. The aren't hired to do a single specific task through out 8 hours, leaving the rest of the day for leasure.
The are heroes, normally working together towards a common goal. Sure, they might have different motives, wishes, and have interest outside this.
It tend to boil down to group dynamic. And my experience is that charging eachother does add much good.
So it doesn't make sense for the character to do pro bono work? Well, it might not make sense for the CN rogue not to steal whatever loot he can get his hands on. But chances are, if the player feel 'cheated' by eachother, even though it makes characterwise sense, is going to make the game a lot less fun.
And if you don't want to craft, but do something else with your character in the downtime? Don't craft and do other stuff!
Crafting while the other "have fun" isn't more fun by earning you a few bucks.
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Actually, this thread makes me want to play a lawful neutral wizard who DOES charge the group for every service provided. The challenge would be to stop just short of being so annoying I'd get thrown out.
I'd hand out neatly filled out invoices headed 'Please pay at your earliest convenience'. And then, just to demonstrate that I'm not being unfair, I'd say 'In that encounter, I calculate that your channelling of positive energy and interposing yourself between my person and the enemy exceeded my own contributions. I owe you a net 22 gold pieces. Do you want to be paid now or shall I deduct it from your next bill?'
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Exactly what he said he would do if more people complained about this system. So we agreed to ask the forum for advice and so far, what I see is that 10% extra is the compensation for the time and effort he is putting into crafting. However since our campaign cares not for the time and effort, since it's done instantly, there is no point in the 10% extra.
Something is stopping you from taking the same month "that passed instantly" and use the profession/craft rules to make some money for yourself?
Check: You can practice your trade and make a decent living, earning half your check result in gold pieces per week of dedicated work. You know how to use the tools of your trade, how to perform the craft's daily tasks, how to supervise untrained helpers, and how to handle common problems. (Untrained laborers and assistants earn an average of 1 silver piece per day.)
Not the 100 gp/day of work that crafting magic items and selling them at 60% of their price can produce, but still some money.
If you go and craft items that you use you can triple your initial sum.Note that 100 gp/day is the maximum without using accelerate crafting, the minimum can be as low as 1,25 gp for writing the scroll of a first level spell. A crafter can make only 1 magic item/day, regardless of its value or nature.
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To the OP, the majority seems to feel that you should not complain.
At the same time, I feel that all of their arguments can also be used to support a position from your character of asking for additional payment (ie, a greater share of the loot) for putting himself in harm and contributing strongly to the party's survival and eventual victory.
All very sensible and fair, I would say :-)))
Of course, that is when the PC party goes from trusted adventuring heroes to selfish mercenaries with zero loyalty.
currently, in my game, the crafter is charging 60% for the magic items that he crafts for us.
Personally I find it a bit greedy on the crafter's part
The crafter counters my argument by saying "I'm Chaotic Neutral, I can charge you whatever I want"
Is it right, as a member of the party, to charge other people? For it is ultimately benefiting the party as a whole.
You could take some feat that benefits other PCs and charge the crafter if he wants you to use it for him.
For example you could take antagonize and if someone attacks the crafter in melee you can charge him for antagonizing the enemy. You should benefit from taking the feat after all. Or the same with saving shield. There are a couple of feats martials can take that mostly benefit others. Just the same as taking a crafting feat.
But, is the Crafter being hurt by not giving even money to the party? ie, sell to the non-crafters at his own cost? No, he is wisely using invested resources to aid the party. But, he is taking a cut out of the party too. That 10% bump to his income is an increase to his income, no bones about it. He is not paying the 1/2 cost for contruction; Joe Bob the Rogue is. Joe Bob is also paying the 'friend' a substantial stipend.
Is the Crafter allowed to sell to the 'economy' at 100% Price (ie, 2x Cost)? At *this* point, the 40% markdown for friends is a BIG savings for the friends. Otherwise, he is pulling coin out of their pockets.
Another imbalance is the absurdly poor rate of returns (relative) for non-magical crafting. How long does it take to Craft a Master Work Longsword? A Masterwork Composite Bow with a +4 STR mod? How much can the mundane Crafter expect to make (in coin) for his time and effort? Don't worry, the Magical Crafter can make a STR Belt in a matter of days (4 days for a +2 Belt, 10 days for a +4...).
Agree or disagree, it don't matter.
Plus, What the Black Raven said...
In character, it's not a payment for taking a feat. It's a payment for doing several weeks of expert work on someone else's behalf while they get to have time off. Sure, you could try charging him for in-combat actions, but he probably does as much in combat as you and isn't (yet) charging for it.
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How is expecting a PC to use his abilities (including feats) for the benefit of other PCs (and indeed of the party as a whole) with no immediate return such a horrible thing ?
Because the party pays for those Feats.
Every Feat you spend on Crafting is one less Feat you had for Metamagic. You traded off pulling your weight in battle effectiveness and now the party has to carry you more. Your free choice was to bring less 'Fireball' and instead you brought a extra item capacity to the party.
Why should YOU be paid 'extra' for choosing a crafting Feat over the other guy who dishes out more hurt?
If you are so keen on crafting maybe we should have left you at home and taken a better and more optimised Wizard.
It's a payment for doing several weeks of expert work on someone else's behalf while they get to have time off.
This is also another fallacy.
What 'time off' are they getting again? Is this real time or the abstracted handwave time? Similarly, if your Wizard had time off, is he just sitting in the pub or would he be doing something productive for the party? Well that's what they are doing - other people have other stuff they'd be doing too - I laugh when people try suggest their poor crafter is working in some sweatshop while everyone else just kicks it and hangs flex.
In my opinion charging others for services rendered is the same kind of dick move like a rogue pc stealing from the party.
Both might be seen as roleplaying. But both is cheating the other players (not their PCs.)
Often other pcs do other stuff while the crafter is crafting. They might be out hunting for food or tending the horses, doing the laundry or doing legwork to gather information because I do not think the crafter will do such things in addition to crafting.
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In character, it's not a payment for taking a feat. It's a payment for doing several weeks of expert work on someone else's behalf while they get to have time off. Sure, you could try charging him for in-combat actions, but he probably does as much in combat as you and isn't (yet) charging for it.
When a party of PCs start thinking like this, they are effectively ended as an adventuring group.
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Interesting. I certainly assume that if the wizard had time off he'd spend it in the pub (or leisure activity of his choice). It's not exactly good role-playing if all your characters are adventuring machines with no human desires.
The way I imagine it, the crafter has eight hours of crafting, eight hours of sleep, and eight hours of other stuff (cooking, eating, washing up, laundry). The rest of the group has eight hours of leisure time in place of the crafting - only actually doing work if they're making skill checks or similar. It's not like the PCs would have suffered any penalty if everyone was working an eight hour day.
I suppose it might seem like less of an in-character if you work out exactly how your group is going to manage their time and they are clearly all pulling their weight. "I spend the day crafting. What do you guys do?" "I'll wash your underwear." "I'll bring you hot meals and then do the washing up." "I'll take your horse out into the fields for a walk." "I'll make a Diplomacy check to gather information."
Though realistically, people with thousands of gold pieces to spare for crafting would buy cooked meals and pay someone else to do their laundry.
And I think there's a big difference between someone secretly stealing from the party, and someone doing work for fellow party members at one fifth of the standard price.