How to lock down / defeat / kill a Teleportation school specialist?


Advice


Hi all. I've been running Rise of the Runelords and have been finding the Wizard (currently level 9) to be very problematic in challenging. What I would like to do is take away his little trick (swift action teleport, unbelievable) for a major combat (that has no primary spellcasters) to make him sweat a little bit. I can see hitting him with a scroll of Dimensional Anchor, but the likely response is to become invisible and then fly away (although that would rob the party of his support for 2 rounds). Another option could be a scroll of anti-magic shell, but I'm worried that might be too effective and make him feel helpless.

Other than that all I can think of is some poison attacks that may paralyze or knock him unconscious. Any other cool magic items/spells/abilities that might humble him a little bit?


Are you aware that his swift action teleportation ability (Shift) ends his turn? Even the Dimensional Agility feat does not negate this limitation, since using the supernatural Shift ability does not qualify for the feat. I also had trouble challenging a wizard who utilized this school power until I realized that it was very limited in application. Shouldn't be too difficult to challenge him with this limitation being known, IMO.

Pathfinder PRD - Shift (Su) Teleportation Wizard Power wrote:
At 1st level, you can teleport to a nearby space as a swift action as if using dimension door. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You must be able to see the space that you are moving into. You cannot take other creatures with you when you use this ability (except for familiars). You can move 5 feet for every two wizard levels you possess (minimum 5 feet). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier. Emphasis, Mine.
Pathfinder PRD - Dimension Door Spell wrote:

You instantly transfer yourself from your current location to any other spot within range. You always arrive at exactly the spot desired—whether by simply visualizing the area or by stating direction. After using this spell, you can't take any other actions until your next turn. You can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn't exceed your maximum load. You may also bring one additional willing Medium or smaller creature (carrying gear or objects up to its maximum load) or its equivalent per three caster levels. A Large creature counts as two Medium creatures, a Huge creature counts as two Large creatures, and so forth. All creatures to be transported must be in contact with one another, and at least one of those creatures must be in contact with you.

If you arrive in a place that is already occupied by a solid body, you and each creature traveling with you take 1d6 points of damage and are shunted to a random open space on a suitable surface within 100 feet of the intended location.

If there is no free space within 100 feet, you and each creature traveling with you take an additional 2d6 points of damage and are shunted to a free space within 1,000 feet. If there is no free space within 1,000 feet, you and each creature travelling with you take an additional 4d6 points of damage and the spell simply fails. Emphasis, Mine.

Pathfinder PRD - Dimensional Agility Feat wrote:

Teleportation does not faze you.

Prerequisites: Ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door.

Benefit: After using abundant step or casting dimension door, you can take any actions you still have remaining on your turn. You also gain a +4 bonus on Concentration checks when casting teleportation spells. Emphasis, Mine.

Scarab Sages

13th level Tetori. In general, Grappled caues activating a Spell-like ability to require a concentration check -4(or -6 for pinned) so grappling is a good way to lock him down.

Alternatly, deny him any actions. Anything that can cause Confused, Cowering, Dazed, Fascinated, Nauseated, or Stunned limit actions including swift actions.


- A common side effect to tack onto any Unhallow effect is dimensional anchor. Unhallow shows up all the time (most evil temple type places seem to have it in place, et al). That way, he doesn't know his trick isn't going to work, til he tries to use it it, and it doesn't work. If you want to be especially annoying, make it so only 'worshippers of XXX' can teleport... so the enemy can pop around with impunity, while he remains anchored. That'll irk him to no end =)

- You could also try to work in the Teleport Tactician feat onto an enemy... but they'd have to be at least level 11 or so to have the feat at all due to prereqs, and would seem a little targeted.

- The Shift supernatural ability requires that wizard be able to see the space they are teleporting to... so something as simple as an Obscuring Mist or Darkness effect could limit his shift to only 5' (or not at all). Similarly, blindness on the caster would have same effect.

- Also, at level 9, he can only shift 20'... so you could just make it so there's no where safe to go within 20' (lots of reach, lots of critters, etc)


@MechE: I had read all of those separately but not gleaned the necessary connection - thanks! I do think that I would allow Dimensional Agility to work with his abilities though.

@Imbicatus: I will definitely focus on which monsters cause the status affects in question.

@EvilMinion: Unhallow, eh? Interesting.


Have ranged attackers all target the wizard and do enough damage to kill him in one round. He can't teleport away if he is dead. Let the cleric use their Breath of Life spell they never get to use.


a phase locking weapon?


Fighter with Teleport Tactician. He provokes even if casting defensively etc. So in short stab him before he jumps.


3.5 had this amusing spell called Anticipate teleportation that basically redirected a teleport for 1 full round and gave the user of the spell knowledge of where the teleport would be occurring.
It can be cast on other people and lasts for hours/CL so a big bad could cast it on his favored champion if he were to say know that an enemy wizard favored the tactic of teleporting out of danger areas.
it doesn't fully screw your caster but it means he ends up losing a full turn of combat for utilizing his trick, that right there is a rather big loss. Important part is that it still lets the player choose to use or not use the ability, rather than straight up shutting him down.
It is also something you don't need to feel horrible about giving to mid level bad guys as the obvious item focus of the 500gp hourglass can be sundered or stolen. If you wanted a flavorful flair to it you could make the focus for the Thassilonian version a rune of power, possibly on the forehead or on the focus item. Focus could be a small gem or a specific attuned Ioun stone serving as the spell container.
It could also serve as a very fancy treasure once they get to the spellcasting big bad that knows how to use the spell. It would be a good reason to leave a scroll or two of it around so the player can play with it.
Call it an ancient thassilonian spell lore, Teleportation based combat being a very often used tatic in the wizard culture of thassilon a refined counter to such tactics would have quite likely have been made. Though I would leave the Greater version of the spell alone as banishing someone from combat for 3 rounds with no save in an aura of no less than a 55ft radius is a little unfair.

Anticipate Teleportation.

Grand Lodge

Imbicatus wrote:

13th level Tetori. In general, Grappled caues activating a Spell-like ability to require a concentration check -4(or -6 for pinned) so grappling is a good way to lock him down.

Alternatly, deny him any actions. Anything that can cause Confused, Cowering, Dazed, Fascinated, Nauseated, or Stunned limit actions including swift actions.

This right here. The tetori will grapple him into submission, and with his dimensional anchor ability and the crazy concentration check to cast while grappled will scare the bejeebus out of him.

Here's the link to the archetype. Although, I think 12 will be sufficient to scare him. Also, give the monk the neckbreaker feat chain. Watching as his dex or str drop as he's grappled and unable to do anything about it will do the trick.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
GrandReaper wrote:
@MechE: I had read all of those separately but not gleaned the necessary connection - thanks! I do think that I would allow Dimensional Agility to work with his abilities though.

I would strongly recommend NOT allowing Dimensional Agility to work. Remember that this is an ability that the wizard gained access to at 1st level and that it replaced this power: Acid Dart (Sp): As a standard action you can unleash an acid dart targeting any foe within 30 feet as a ranged touch attack. The acid dart deals 1d6 points of acid damage + 1 for every two wizard levels you possess. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier. This attack ignores spell resistance.

Just my 2 cp.


MechE_ wrote:
GrandReaper wrote:
@MechE: I had read all of those separately but not gleaned the necessary connection - thanks! I do think that I would allow Dimensional Agility to work with his abilities though.

I would strongly recommend NOT allowing Dimensional Agility to work. Remember that this is an ability that the wizard gained access to at 1st level and that it replaced this power: Acid Dart (Sp): As a standard action you can unleash an acid dart targeting any foe within 30 feet as a ranged touch attack. The acid dart deals 1d6 points of acid damage + 1 for every two wizard levels you possess. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier. This attack ignores spell resistance.

Just my 2 cp.

While this may seem more powerful, that is how some wizard abilities are, comparing one school power to another, or a replacement, there are many examples of discrepancies in power. However, looking at the abilities it seems like Dimensional Agility should work with "Shift"

Abundant Step: At 12th level or higher, a monk can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell dimension door.

Shift: At 1st level, you can teleport to a nearby space as a swift action as if using dimension door.

Dimensional Agility
Teleportation does not faze you.
Prerequisites: Ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door.
Benefit: After using abundant step or casting dimension door, you can take any actions you still have remaining on your turn.

When you Shift, it is used as if casting dimension door, and when you cast dimension door, you can take any actions afterwards

As to why it seems more powerful than an ability monks get at 12, well it is much weaker on range (lvl 12 monk goes 880 feet, while 12 wizard can go 30 feet) and a monk could take 4 medium humanoids with him. Completely different power levels there.


Imbicatus wrote:

13th level Tetori. In general, Grappled caues activating a Spell-like ability to require a concentration check -4(or -6 for pinned) so grappling is a good way to lock him down.

Alternatly, deny him any actions. Anything that can cause Confused, Cowering, Dazed, Fascinated, Nauseated, or Stunned limit actions including swift actions.

Shift is a supernatural ability and so doesn't require a concentration check.


haruhiko88 wrote:
Fighter with Teleport Tactician. He provokes even if casting defensively etc. So in short stab him before he jumps.

As a supernatural ability Shift does not provoke so he simply shifts away and then blows the fighter up.

Scarab Sages

I was thinking it was spell-like my bad. However I just saw a big weakness in the ability: you have to be able to see where you are going. Darkness, obscuring mist, fog, and anything that causes temporary blindness (including a simple dirty trick maneuver) will shut the ability down.


Jayder22 wrote:
MechE_ wrote:
GrandReaper wrote:
@MechE: I had read all of those separately but not gleaned the necessary connection - thanks! I do think that I would allow Dimensional Agility to work with his abilities though.

I would strongly recommend NOT allowing Dimensional Agility to work. Remember that this is an ability that the wizard gained access to at 1st level and that it replaced this power: Acid Dart (Sp): As a standard action you can unleash an acid dart targeting any foe within 30 feet as a ranged touch attack. The acid dart deals 1d6 points of acid damage + 1 for every two wizard levels you possess. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier. This attack ignores spell resistance.

Just my 2 cp.

While this may seem more powerful, that is how some wizard abilities are, comparing one school power to another, or a replacement, there are many examples of discrepancies in power. However, looking at the abilities it seems like Dimensional Agility should work with "Shift"

Abundant Step: At 12th level or higher, a monk can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell dimension door.

Shift: At 1st level, you can teleport to a nearby space as a swift action as if using dimension door.

Dimensional Agility
Teleportation does not faze you.
Prerequisites: Ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door.
Benefit: After using abundant step or casting dimension door, you can take any actions you still have remaining on your turn.

When you Shift, it is used as if casting dimension door, and when you cast dimension door, you can take any actions afterwards

As to why it seems more powerful than an ability monks get at 12, well it is much weaker on range (lvl 12 monk goes 880 feet, while 12 wizard can go 30 feet) and a monk could take 4 medium humanoids with him. Completely different power levels there.

The teleportation School is from APG and the dimensional agility feats are from UC. If the intention was for the feats to work with the teleportation School power, i think it would be mentioned just like abundant step.

As it is now the feats work with dimension door and also with abundant step but not with any of the other short ranged teleport effects.
If the issue is that the conjurer is to powerfull then i see no reason to house rule him better.

Scarab Sages

I thought Shadowdancers could use the feats as well with the Jaunt Ability, but RAW, I agree that only the spell Dimension Door, DD as a spell-like ability, or Abundant Step works. I think RAI, it should work with any ability that includes "as dimension door" in the description and Shadowdancer and the Teleportation school abilities were not mentioned due to either oversight or trimming extra text from the feat.


Cap. Darling wrote:

The teleportation School is from APG and the dimensional agility feats are from UC. If the intention was for the feats to work with the teleportation School power, i think it would be mentioned just like abundant step.

As it is now the feats work with dimension door and also with abundant step but not with any of the other short ranged teleport effects.

If the issue is that the conjurer is to powerfull then i see no reason to house rule him better.

Agree, agree, and agree.

Shadow Lodge

andreww wrote:
haruhiko88 wrote:
Fighter with Teleport Tactician. He provokes even if casting defensively etc. So in short stab him before he jumps.
As a supernatural ability Shift does not provoke so he simply shifts away and then blows the fighter up.

Actually it works--

Teleport Tactician wrote:


Any creature using a teleportation effect to enter or leave a square threatened by you provokes an attack of opportunity, even if casting defensively or using a supernatural ability.


andreww wrote:
haruhiko88 wrote:
Fighter with Teleport Tactician. He provokes even if casting defensively etc. So in short stab him before he jumps.
As a supernatural ability Shift does not provoke so he simply shifts away and then blows the fighter up.

Teleport Tactician doesn't care about that. It's the act of using a teleportation effect that provokes. Warping into a space threatened by someone with Teleport Tactician also provokes - he's rammed a sword into you before you've even finished materializing!

I suspect that Teleport Tactician would kick serious ass in Wrath of the Righteous, all the teleporting demons...

Now, you need to be a pretty specific thing to actually have Teleport Tactician - either a fighter, something that count as a fighter for feat purposes, or an arcane duelist bard (who get the pre-req feats as bonus feats; Teleport Tactician itself does not require fighter levels).

Now, an enemy archer with a +1 seeking bow will probably be a much easier way to clean your wizard's clock - the archer just needs to know what square the wizard is in, and the wizard's in trouble.


Interesting...

I currently play a level 9 Teleportation School Wizard in a RotRL campaign. But, since I have always used Shift as ending my turn and not ever even asked to apply Dimensional feats to it, I'm pretty sure you're not my GM.

And if you are, well, Shift is not my only trick.


Cap. Darling wrote:

The teleportation School is from APG and the dimensional agility feats are from UC. If the intention was for the feats to work with the teleportation School power, i think it would be mentioned just like abundant step.

As it is now the feats work with dimension door and also with abundant step but not with any of the other short ranged teleport effects.
If the issue is that the conjurer is to powerfull then i see no reason to house rule him better.

No need to mention Shift. Shift functions as if using Dimension Door.

Taking Dimensional agility allows the wizard to take actions after he casts Dimension Door.

So, when he activates Shift, it is as if he Dimension Door'd. So...

Can take actions.

Is it good? Yeah of course. Feats and abilities are supposed to be good.

Don't try to make bad arguments for why something shouldn't work when it was clearly designed to work that way.


MechE_ wrote:
Cap. Darling wrote:

The teleportation School is from APG and the dimensional agility feats are from UC. If the intention was for the feats to work with the teleportation School power, i think it would be mentioned just like abundant step.

As it is now the feats work with dimension door and also with abundant step but not with any of the other short ranged teleport effects.

If the issue is that the conjurer is to powerfull then i see no reason to house rule him better.

Agree, agree, and agree.

Unless you're talking about the prerequisites?

The shifty wizard still needs to meet the prerequisites, ie being able to cast dimension door. So he can't take this until 7th level.

But once he has taken it, it would apply to both his dimension door spells and to his shift ability.

Because the same line that causes shift to have this problem lets him solve it. "as if using dimension door."

So whatever happens when he uses dimension door, is what happens when he uses shift. Because shift is as if using dimension door.


Teleportation requires access to the astral plane. I don't have a modern cosmology, but in AD&D the astral plane connected only to the first levels of the outer planes. If this is still true then luring the party into a confrontation in one of the outer planes would render teleportation impossible.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Remy Balster wrote:
Cap. Darling wrote:

The teleportation School is from APG and the dimensional agility feats are from UC. If the intention was for the feats to work with the teleportation School power, i think it would be mentioned just like abundant step.

As it is now the feats work with dimension door and also with abundant step but not with any of the other short ranged teleport effects.
If the issue is that the conjurer is to powerfull then i see no reason to house rule him better.

No need to mention Shift. Shift functions as if using Dimension Door.

Taking Dimensional agility allows the wizard to take actions after he casts Dimension Door.

So, when he activates Shift, it is as if he Dimension Door'd. So...

Can take actions.

Is it good? Yeah of course. Feats and abilities are supposed to be good.

Don't try to make bad arguments for why something shouldn't work when it was clearly designed to work that way.

The Abundant Step monk ability has the same "as if using dimension door" wording. So why is the Abundant Step ability specifically called out in both the prerequisites and benefits section of the Dimensional Agility feat? By your argument, that enabling text would be unnecessary. I will therefore suggest that your argument in incorrect and that since the specific enabling text does not exist for the Shift ability, it is not intended to function with the Dimensional Agility feat.


People don't need to house-rule RAW simply because you feel it is too powerful.

You need to house-rule it to not work because you feel it is too powerful.

Don't misrepresent who needs to house-rule what. Or what is a house-rule.

RAW is that the feat helps shift. Don't like it? Change it in your games.


MechE_ wrote:
Remy Balster wrote:
Cap. Darling wrote:

The teleportation School is from APG and the dimensional agility feats are from UC. If the intention was for the feats to work with the teleportation School power, i think it would be mentioned just like abundant step.

As it is now the feats work with dimension door and also with abundant step but not with any of the other short ranged teleport effects.
If the issue is that the conjurer is to powerfull then i see no reason to house rule him better.

No need to mention Shift. Shift functions as if using Dimension Door.

Taking Dimensional agility allows the wizard to take actions after he casts Dimension Door.

So, when he activates Shift, it is as if he Dimension Door'd. So...

Can take actions.

Is it good? Yeah of course. Feats and abilities are supposed to be good.

Don't try to make bad arguments for why something shouldn't work when it was clearly designed to work that way.

The Abundant Step monk ability has the same "as if using dimension door" wording. So why is the Abundant Step ability specifically called out in both the prerequisites and benefits section of the Dimensional Agility feat? By your argument, that enabling text would be unnecessary. I will therefore suggest that your argument in incorrect and that since the specific enabling text does not exist for the Shift ability, it is not intended to function with the Dimensional Agility feat.

So that it is obvious that monks can use the ability too.

My argument isn't wrong, simply because the feat also mentions another ability. That's absurd.

Read the line. "as if using dimension door".

When a wizard uses shift, it is as if they used dimension door.

Do you know what those words mean? Where are you misunderstanding this?


Remy Balster wrote:
Cap. Darling wrote:

The teleportation School is from APG and the dimensional agility feats are from UC. If the intention was for the feats to work with the teleportation School power, i think it would be mentioned just like abundant step.

As it is now the feats work with dimension door and also with abundant step but not with any of the other short ranged teleport effects.
If the issue is that the conjurer is to powerfull then i see no reason to house rule him better.

No need to mention Shift. Shift functions as if using Dimension Door.

Taking Dimensional agility allows the wizard to take actions after he casts Dimension Door.

So, when he activates Shift, it is as if he Dimension Door'd. So...

Can take actions.

Is it good? Yeah of course. Feats and abilities are supposed to be good.

Don't try to make bad arguments for why something shouldn't work when it was clearly designed to work that way.

You may be rigth sir. I dont think you are, but you may be. Make a FAQ and i will click it.

Edit: And why would you think i was trying to make a bad argument? I was trying to make a good one, and i did it!


GrandReaper wrote:

Hi all. I've been running Rise of the Runelords and have been finding the Wizard (currently level 9) to be very problematic in challenging. What I would like to do is take away his little trick (swift action teleport, unbelievable) for a major combat (that has no primary spellcasters) to make him sweat a little bit. I can see hitting him with a scroll of Dimensional Anchor, but the likely response is to become invisible and then fly away (although that would rob the party of his support for 2 rounds). Another option could be a scroll of anti-magic shell, but I'm worried that might be too effective and make him feel helpless.

Other than that all I can think of is some poison attacks that may paralyze or knock him unconscious. Any other cool magic items/spells/abilities that might humble him a little bit?

The most devious way of screwing with this guy is with Teleport Trap.

It redirects all teleportation to a predetermined location within the area, and it can be a fairly sizeable area.

I wouldn't recommend getting too sadistic with it... like making the spot be a 10x10x10 vault with no exits surrounded by lead walls and an anti-magic area.... but, ya know, it can separate the wizard and remove him from the fight rather handily.


Atarlost wrote:
Teleportation requires access to the astral plane.

It does?


Cap. Darling wrote:

You may be rigth sir. I dont think you are, but you may be. Make a FAQ and i will click it.

Edit: And why would you think i was trying to make a bad argument? I was trying to make a good one, and i did it!

Ah, well in that case my apologies. It was your closing lines... they were indicative of making a ruling based on something other than RAW. Ie. personal feelings of power balance.

If that is not what you are doing, and simply making what you think is a genuinely good argument... then I overstepped and am sorry for that.


Sarcasmancer wrote:
Atarlost wrote:
Teleportation requires access to the astral plane.
It does?

Yup.

PRD wrote:

Teleportation: A teleportation spell transports one or more creatures or objects a great distance. The most powerful of these spells can cross planar boundaries. Unlike summoning spells, the transportation is (unless otherwise noted) one-way and not dispellable.

Teleportation is instantaneous travel through the Astral Plane. Anything that blocks astral travel also blocks teleportation.


Remy Balster wrote:
Cap. Darling wrote:

You may be rigth sir. I dont think you are, but you may be. Make a FAQ and i will click it.

Edit: And why would you think i was trying to make a bad argument? I was trying to make a good one, and i did it!

Ah, well in that case my apologies. It was your closing lines... they were indicative of making a ruling based on something other than RAW. Ie. personal feelings of power balance.

If that is not what you are doing, and simply making what you think is a genuinely good argument... then I overstepped and am sorry for that.

Apology accepted captain Needa.

I must admit that i usually also use the old, if somthing is too good to be true it is most likely, not true, rule. And this time i think RAW supports me. But i have looked around and it seems that there have been alot of comotion about this. The FAQs that have been up claims that it is answered but i ditent see it.


Looking at the rules in question, I would probably do one of two things...

1) Inform the players that, after careful consideration, you have decided to rule that the Dimensional Agility feat does not work with Shift ability from the Teleportation school. It only works when actually casting a teleportation spell.

2) If your players throw a huge fit over it, start littering your encounters with NPC enemies that have the Shift class ability and the Dimensional Agility feat, and see how much they like being on the receiving end of the tactic. They might end up begging you to make the same houserule.


Haladir wrote:
Sarcasmancer wrote:
Atarlost wrote:
Teleportation requires access to the astral plane.
It does?

Yup.

PRD wrote:

Teleportation: A teleportation spell transports one or more creatures or objects a great distance. The most powerful of these spells can cross planar boundaries. Unlike summoning spells, the transportation is (unless otherwise noted) one-way and not dispellable.

Teleportation is instantaneous travel through the Astral Plane. Anything that blocks astral travel also blocks teleportation.

Amazing. /scurries off to write adventure based on that episode of TNG where Barclay has Transporter Phobia

Silver Crusade

Introduce a reoccuring MBEG...ninja 6/horizon walker 3/ninja 4+...
At 13th level, he'll have Dimensional Savant and can flank with himself.

Although you're not locking down the wizard per se, it would make for some interesting encounters.


As for the whole "dim agility" limitations, I have started threads on the subject myself, but as far as I can tell paizo doesnt think it's worth answering. The concensus I've seen is that "functions as dimension door" doesnt count for dim agility; it's probably not worth starting another thread that will be ignored, but you can try.


Atarlost wrote:
Teleportation requires access to the astral plane. I don't have a modern cosmology, but in AD&D the astral plane connected only to the first levels of the outer planes. If this is still true then luring the party into a confrontation in one of the outer planes would render teleportation impossible.

if this were true (not saying its not) then no outsiders would be able to use there teleport at will abilities...


Counterspell specialist nemesis. Wizard duel. Could be awesome.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Rather than Dimensional Anchor or an AM Shell, how about Forbiddance? It's a Cleric, Inquis and Oracle 6 spell, and shuts down all teleportation affects in a 60' cube per caster level permanently (or at least until a dispel...). It has a 6 round casting time, so it's not something that would be done on the spur of the moment, but could be setup ahead of time, depending on circumstances.


Inquisitors also learn Dimensional Anchor early. Fun stuff.


Remy Balster wrote:
Cap. Darling wrote:

The teleportation School is from APG and the dimensional agility feats are from UC. If the intention was for the feats to work with the teleportation School power, i think it would be mentioned just like abundant step.

As it is now the feats work with dimension door and also with abundant step but not with any of the other short ranged teleport effects.
If the issue is that the conjurer is to powerfull then i see no reason to house rule him better.

No need to mention Shift. Shift functions as if using Dimension Door.

Taking Dimensional agility allows the wizard to take actions after he casts Dimension Door.

So, when he activates Shift, it is as if he Dimension Door'd. So...

Can take actions.

Is it good? Yeah of course. Feats and abilities are supposed to be good.

Don't try to make bad arguments for why something shouldn't work when it was clearly designed to work that way.

DD is only mentioned so you know how it works. If anything using DD as a description qualified then abundant step would not need to be specifically called out. The wizard ability does not work with feat by RAW or RAI.


williamoak wrote:
As for the whole "dim agility" limitations, I have started threads on the subject myself, but as far as I can tell paizo doesnt think it's worth answering. The concensus I've seen is that "functions as dimension door" doesnt count for dim agility; it's probably not worth starting another thread that will be ignored, but you can try.

wasn't shadowdancer shuffled into the same boat where even though shadow step acts as dimension door, it isnt actually dimension door, so it doesn't apply?

Grand Lodge

andreww wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:

13th level Tetori. In general, Grappled caues activating a Spell-like ability to require a concentration check -4(or -6 for pinned) so grappling is a good way to lock him down.

Alternatly, deny him any actions. Anything that can cause Confused, Cowering, Dazed, Fascinated, Nauseated, or Stunned limit actions including swift actions.

Shift is a supernatural ability and so doesn't require a concentration check.

But at 13 a Tetori's Inescapable Grasp ability works like dim anchor, thus preventing the shifting.


wraithstrike wrote:
DD is only mentioned so you know how it works. If anything using DD as a description qualified then abundant step would not need to be specifically called out. The wizard ability does not work with feat by RAW or RAI.

as if using dimension door.

Shift might not qualify you for the feat, but it most certainly benefits from the feat.

If a 7th lvl Wizard takes this feat;

he casts dimension door... what happens? Well, he can continue to act in the round.

he uses his Shift ability... what happens? Well, it is as if he used dimension door, what happened when he used dimension door? Oh, cool, he continues to act in the round.


Remy Balster wrote:
Shift might not qualify you for the feat, but it most certainly benefits from the feat.

This is your own incorrect reading of the rules.

The Shift ability is, rather clearly, NOT mentioned anywhere in the Dimensional Agility feat while the Abundant Step ability is specifically mentioned. Both are indicated as functioning "as dimension door"... The fact that Abundant Step is mentioned while Shift is not is the nail in the coffin of your argument.

Also, Shift is a 1st level ability and if you make the mistake of allowing a Wizard to continue his turn after using it, (as I did for about 7 levels), then it becomes an incredibly powerful one that results in DMs asking questions like "How to lock down/defeat/kill a Teleportation school specialist?" I doubt anyone has ever asked a similar question regarding a wizard with the Acid Dart ability, which is the ONLY thing that the Teleportation school replaces.

If Shift doesn't end your turn (even once you acquire the Dimensional Agility feat), it is INCREDIBLY powerful for a first level ability. If it DOES end your turn, it is still extremely useful for escaping grapples, passing terrain, etc.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / How to lock down / defeat / kill a Teleportation school specialist? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice