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I managed to catch the Podcast from Know Direction featuring Jason Bulmahn and these are the notes I was able to take inbetween taking care of my 3 nephews.
- Hope to get the new PDF out this week, or early next week. Archetypes for the parent classes that lets them use some of the child class abilities.
- Arcanist – Counterspell + Parry Spell will be nerfed. New exploits in the new document.
- Warpriest had 1/3 of it's abilities altered or torn out and replaced. Iconic is a male half-orc of Gorum.
- Hunter had some significant changes to it's abilities. 3 new teamwork feats included in the document. 1 is called the wounded paw gambit, whenever companion hits a foe, can take a penalty to AC and if the foe attacks the companion, the Hunter gets an AoO.
- Swashbuckler had some changes to it's abilities and new abilities added. Will have an archetype that uses a gun.
- Bloodrager had light changes. Will get it's own new spell list.
- Investigator removed Sneak Attack and replaced it with an ability similar to the Sherlock Holmes boxing scene where he narrates what's going to happen.
- Shaman had light changes, mostly around it's spell list.
- Brawler proficient with close weapon group, and shields as a weapon, but not as an armor (Captain America), capstone ability swapped out. At 20th level he can throw people across the room and the capstone is gained earlier, but is an improved Awesome Blow.
Interesting. Are the archetypes going to be in the next playtest, or am I reading too far into the formatting?
Also, thank you very much for the mini transcript!
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The archetypes will be in the book.
Arcanist I missed some of what Jason said about Counterspell + Spell Parry, but I caught that it was going to be nerfed, but I don't know if it will be in the next document or in the book. He did say there will be some new exploits in the new document, so the Arcanist will have some new toys to play with too.
Warpriest Jason mentioned that today he tore apart about 1/3 of the Warpriests abilities and either changed or replaced them. So the Warpriest will have lots of new things in the new document.
Hunter he didn't mention what was being changed, but that there would be some significant changes to the Hunter. Mostly around interactions with teamwork feats and his companion. He mentioned that the team wanted the Hunter to be the pet class and that the Hunter would have more powerful animal companions than others. He talked about how many druids use animal companions to just attack while the Druid casts spells, and the Rangers either don't have one, or use them to attack another enemy wile the Ranger attacks a different enemy, rarely do they fight the same enemy.
He wants the Hunter and his Companion to be like the Dynamic Duo, teaming up to take down bad guys in tandem. He said there would be some new teamwork feats just for the Hunter, and that 3 of them will be included in the document and gave that little spoiler about the Wounded Gambit feat.
Swashbuckler Jason listed the Swashbuckler as the 3rd most heavily revised excluding the Arcanist (Arcanist, then Warpriest, then Hunter then Swashbuckler). They are moving around access to some abilities, replacing others, and adding entirely new ones. He did mention that in the book itself, there is going to be an archetype that uses guns, and that was there intention from the beginning.
Bloodrager Unfortunately, I missed a lot about what he said in regards to the Bloodrager, but that there was going to be 'light changes'. The most significant, I gathered, to be that the Bloodrager will have it's own spell list, and that it kind of doesn't function without it's own unique spell list.
Shaman Ditto with the Shaman, he covered the Shaman and Bloodrager at almost the same time and I missed much of what he said other than the change in spell list.
Investigator He said they removed Sneak Attack and added in an exciting new ability that is a lot like the scene from Sherlock Holmes as I mentioned. He didn't say much on the Investigator other than that it's one of the classes he's most excited it about, and that the Investigator practically wrote itself.
Brawler As mentioned, the Brawler will be proficient in the Close Weapons group, and he will be proficient in the shield as a weapon, but will not be proficient with the shield as armor, and then remarked he can be a bit like Captain America.
The Capstone has been changed to gain access at earlier levels (but still too high for PFS) and that it will gradually get more powerful until 20th level when you can 'knock guys across the room'. IT is an improvement on Awesome Blow, as they thought the Awesome Blow feat kind of fit the Brawler.
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Jason mentioned that he hopes to get it out in the next few days, possibly early next week, but wasn't going to give an exact date other than 'Soon'.
There will be all new feats, spells, magic items and archetypes in the ACG that interact with the new and old classes. For instance, there would be feats or archetypes that grant limited use of the new mechanics (Tels: I imagine this will work a bit like the feat Amateur Gunslinger or Archetypes like Sensei which grant bardic performance). There will be feats like Extra Exploit for the Arcanist.
He mentioned something about how some spells might grant extra use of certain abilities, but I missed most of that statement.
While they won't be addressing this in the playtest, they will clarify how these hybrid classes work when it comes to feats or abilities dealing with the parent classes. For instance, he mentioned they are considering the choice that Bloodrage would count as Rage for all purposes, like feat Prerequisites. He mentioned that the Hybrids would count as their parent classes for level requirements (like fighter level requirements for feats), but that individual class abilities would be done on a case by case scenario.
[Edit] Also, he talked about naming the classes and that all the class names except Bloodrager and Warpriest are 'pretty much locked in'. The other two are 'iffy' because they are portmanteaus of other words, but that they haven't thought of anything that works better. Bloodrager, especially, is giving them some problems because the name just really 'fits' and so too does the Warpriest, but not as much as the Bloodrager does.
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Oh, I forgot to mention that the Slayer will receive some changes too, though minor. They were going to try and build in some options for the Slayer to get his SA at range, and may include some feats to expand the option for range SA, though he doesn't want the Slayer to be able to SA from, like, 100 ft away.
Oh, I forgot to mention that the Slayer will receive some changes too, though minor. They were going to try and build in some options for the Slayer to get his SA at range, and may include some feats to expand the option for range SA, though he doesn't want the Slayer to be able to SA from, like, 100 ft away.
Oh ho ho, really?
Oh, I forgot to mention that the Slayer will receive some changes too, though minor. They were going to try and build in some options for the Slayer to get his SA at range, and may include some feats to expand the option for range SA, though he doesn't want the Slayer to be able to SA from, like, 100 ft away.Oh ho ho, really?
Not sure if you're for or against this bit. Personally, I'm a little hesitant as archery is already powerful. Sneak Attack Archery, if it becomes legitimately viable could be really, really powerful.
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I am a little disappointed that the Skald wasn't mentioned, but only because I'd like to have seen the Skald get some attention too. I, personally, am not all that enthused by the Skald and am unlikely to ever play one.
Not sure if you're for or against this bit. Personally, I'm a little hesitant as archery is already powerful. Sneak Attack Archery, if it becomes legitimately viable could be really, really powerful.Oh, I forgot to mention that the Slayer will receive some changes too, though minor. They were going to try and build in some options for the Slayer to get his SA at range, and may include some feats to expand the option for range SA, though he doesn't want the Slayer to be able to SA from, like, 100 ft away.Oh ho ho, really?
It could. But there are ways to make it balanced. Or at least not overpowered.
shields as a weapon, but not as an armor (Captain America)
This strikes me as really silly.
I mean, consider the inspiration. Yeah, definitely not using a shield to defend himself.
Well interesting information there, thanks for posting Tels.
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Investigator removed Sneak Attack and replaced it with an ability similar to the Sherlock Holmes boxing scene where he narrates what's going to happen.
O.O
THEY REALLY DO LISTEN!! :DDDD
Investigator removed Sneak Attack and replaced it with an ability similar to the Sherlock Holmes boxing scene where he narrates what's going to happen. O.O
THEY REALLY DO LISTEN!! :DDDD
Uhhh, can you explain what that means? Haven't seen the movie.
Tels, did you mean that they said the shaman is getting their own spell list or that it's a different spell list than the current?
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Investigator removed Sneak Attack and replaced it with an ability similar to the Sherlock Holmes boxing scene where he narrates what's going to happen. O.O
THEY REALLY DO LISTEN!! :DDDD
Uhhh, can you explain what that means? Haven't seen the movie.
He monologues while using hyper analyzation and deduction, basically going over all your options in the immediate second and then selecting the best course of action for twenty moves ahead. Really neat.
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Magic, got it.
Tels, did you mean that they said the shaman is getting their own spell list or that it's a different spell list than the current?
The spell list will change from it's current form, possibly to the Druid spell list.
Investigator removed Sneak Attack and replaced it with an ability similar to the Sherlock Holmes boxing scene where he narrates what's going to happen. O.O
THEY REALLY DO LISTEN!! :DDDD
Uhhh, can you explain what that means? Haven't seen the movie.
Sneak Attack should be replaced with Called Shots
The Bob Downey Sherlock Holmes fight scenes made me think of this. Wouldn't it be on theme if the Investigator got some kind of "called shot" ability? I mean, like the ability to observe their opponent for a round or two, and then make a called shot that could stagger them, or otherwise disable the opponent, such as breaking their arms.
The mechanics people are going to have to help me out with this one - would it be balanced to simply offer a CMB after the observation period? Said bonus could even increase at the same speed that sneak attack already increases for the class.
I still think that the Investigator should lose sneak attack in exchange for an ability that let's you observe your enemy, and make studied attacks :)
I'm just excited that they do listen to our feedback :DD
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Here's some of my notes (which are mostly the same, but as long as I have them) -
- Playtest has gone relatively smoothly. There are some classes that need some work, some classes are going over really well.
- Goal of the classes was to allow players to realize concepts that don't work very well as multiclasses, mechanically.
- Delicate line to walk when you're dealing with classes that are conceptually close to existing things. Don't want to just replace existing classes. Not quite there yet, some are a little better or a little worse.
- Hope to learn from the playtest:
--- How much public interest there is in things.
--- Make sure they're not going to put stuff out there that unbalances the game, especially with regards to obscure stuff in Player Companion books and stuff.
--- Need a large playerbase to poke holes at it.
- Getting good data in terms of how people feel about the classes and how excited they are about the classes. Classes that people are less excited about are also the ones that people think are least powerful/clear/flexible. Hopefully when those things improve, the classes people are less excited about will be more popular as well.
- They'll be rereleasing the playtest document soon - within the next few days, maybe slipping into next week. Most things are done.
- Every class has gotten some changes, though nothing on the scale of the Arcanist.
- Still firming up how things will work in terms of class levels and class features counting as other things. Bloodrage might count as rage for the purpose of thing that have "rage" as a prereq, for example.
- Jason is most excited about the Arcanist. Also likes the investigator and thinks it has a lot of promise and fills an interesting spot.
- Depending on how this plays out, there may be future hybrid classes. Probably not another round of ten, but a few might show up.
- Tried a lot of combinations that involved the summoner when they were putting together the ACG, but that class is crazy enough as it is. Had a Summoner/Sorcerer that was all about having an outsider friend of a specific type, like devils or demons or angels, but it was just too much. Might try to find a way to do this in the future.
- They joke about a summoner/gunslinger that summons monsters and then shoots them, and an aristocrat/expert.
- When they're trying to put together a base class, if the name of the class is just a garble of letters they had to make up because there wasn't anything that was even close, then they know they're in trouble.
- Don't love the names of the Bloodrager and the Warpriest, because they're mash-together names. Toying around with alternate names, especially for the Bloodrager, because that's not really a thing that exists or has any precedent. Warpriest could also change, but the toher names are pretty much locked.
- All of the classes will have archetypes in the ACG. Lots of new feats and spells. They don't want to make people wait a few years for the new classes to catch up with the old ones in terms of how much support they have.
- Archetypes, feats, and spells that let existing classes play with some of the new mechanics as well. Rogue can get investigator's "Studied attack" for example.
- Iconics are split 50/50 male and female, and they're trying to cover bases that haven't been covered or that have only been covered lightly. Warpriest is a Male Half-Orc that worships Gorum, to be distinct from the other priestly iconics, who are all human females. Different ethnicities - Chelaxian, Gurundi. All (or almost all) of the core races now have a male and a female of every core race.
- Community has generally been pretty positive, just like with other playtests. Initial period there's always a lot of excitement and questions.
- Using existing spell lists, because it starts to get really cumbersome.
- Not everything could be as totally novel as the Magus because then they couldn't have fit as much.
Arcanist
- Will get adjustments to the immediate action counterspell because feat interactions make it super good right now.
- Was one of the last classes to get put together, so version 1 was a bit rushed. Core mechanic didn't feel like it fit that well.
- Spellcasting mechanic went over well, but class didn't have a flavor niche and felt bland.
- Definitely the class that needed the most work.
- New version is going over much better.
- Next playtest will have a few new exploits.
Bloodrager
- No huge changes. Clarity being added to some things.
- Getting his own spell list. Needs it, can't function without it.
- Was the easiest class to put together. I get angry and magic comes out of me.
Brawler
- Changed his weapon proficiencies. Now he's proficient with the close weapon group. Proficient with shield as a weapon, but not as a piece of armor. Got some other changes as well. Got a more interesting capstone, and gets awesome blow earlier.
Hunter
- Receiving some changes in the way he works. Powers are staying kind of the same, but they way the interact and play out is changing.
- There are three new teamwork feats in the next document. Book will have feats that apply specifically to animal companions. "Wounded Paw Gambit" lets animal companion take an AC penalty, and if it gets hit, you get an AoO.
- Hunter is the key tandem character of player character and animal companion. Hunter should want to fight the same foe as his animal companion. Animal companion will be better than anybody's else, and they're adding ways for them to team up against people.
Investigator
- No longer has sneak attack. Instead has a brand new ability. Like that scene in "Sherlock Holmes" where he's about to box that guy, and then he narrates how the fight's going to go, and then he does it: that's what they gave the investigator. "Studied attack"
Skald
- This doesn't get mentioned a single time during the podcast.
Shaman
- Very light changes aside from swapping out the spell list. It's one of the classes that they haven't yet decided everything that's changing for the new playtest.
- May get its own spell list, since none are a great fit. Really trying to avoid this though.
Slayer
- Will get ways to extend their sneak attack range. They'll either be pointing at the existing ways to do that, or expanding them. This is an area where they sort of have to be careful.
Swashbuckler
- Significant structural changes coming in new packet. Shifted where some of the powers live, moved some of them around. Also got some new powers.
- In the ACG itself, there will be an archetype with a gun.
Warpriest
- Heavily revised for the new playtest packet.
- Expect people will like it a lot more after the rebuild.
Tels: I'm not seeing the podcast on their youtube or their website - where did you listen to it?
Any word on Brawler weapon damage scaling with unarmed strike?
They didn't mention anything about this, no.
Tels: I'm not seeing the podcast on their youtube or their website - where did you listen to it?
It was a live broadcast.
Also, I believe the investigator's smeak attack is going to be replaced by an ability called "Studied Attack".
Well, meant to and does is a different thing entirely. But if the investigator's schtick isn't damage, then I can see that
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Magic, got it.No no.
Spoiler warning for link.
Oogh. That was pretty cool.
Oh man, thanks for the notes guys!
… I'm really hoping I get a way to have a Shaman with a more Cleric-like spell-list. Archetype is cool by me. I just want to be able to Chain of Perdition some ghosts while walking around with Defending Bone active and Protection from Evil. X)
Here's some of my notes (which are mostly the same, but as long as I have them) -
- Playtest has gone relatively smoothly. There are some classes that need some work, some classes are going over really well.
- Goal of the classes was to allow players to realize concepts that don't work very well as multiclasses, mechanically.
- Delicate line to walk when you're dealing with classes that are conceptually close to existing things. Don't want to just replace existing classes. Not quite there yet, some are a little better or a little worse.
- Hope to learn from the playtest:
--- How much public interest there is in things.
--- Make sure they're not going to put stuff out there that unbalances the game, especially with regards to obscure stuff in Player Companion books and stuff.
--- Need a large playerbase to poke holes at it.
- Getting good data in terms of how people feel about the classes and how excited they are about the classes. Classes that people are less excited about are also the ones that people think are least powerful/clear/flexible. Hopefully when those things improve, the classes people are less excited about will be more popular as well.
- They'll be rereleasing the playtest document soon - within the next few days, maybe slipping into next week. Most things are done.
- Every class has gotten some changes, though nothing on the scale of the Arcanist.
- Still firming up how things will work in terms of class levels and class features counting as other things. Bloodrage might count as rage for the purpose of thing that have "rage" as a prereq, for example.
- Jason is most excited about the Arcanist. Also likes the investigator and thinks it has a lot of promise and fills an interesting spot.
- Depending on how this plays out, there may be future hybrid classes. Probably not another round of ten, but a few might show up.
- Tried a lot of combinations that involved the summoner when they were putting together the ACG, but that class is crazy enough as it is. Had a...
You took way better notes than I did. :P
Yeah, I watched the live broadcast (even had two of my questions answered) and was trying to jot down as much about the classes as I could while chasing my nephews around and making them dinner.
Archery is powerful? Since when? It got a lot of love with Pathfinder, don't get me wrong, but there's a reason why they're generally rarer than standard martial types like two handed weapon wielders. And just going off of Rogues, Sneak Attack Archery is so bad compared to anything else a SA class can do that it's not even worth it thanks to PF effectively nerfing the most consistent ways to get people flat-footed from 3.5Not sure if you're for or against this bit. Personally, I'm a little hesitant as archery is already powerful. Sneak Attack Archery, if it becomes legitimately viable could be really, really powerful.Oh, I forgot to mention that the Slayer will receive some changes too, though minor. They were going to try and build in some options for the Slayer to get his SA at range, and may include some feats to expand the option for range SA, though he doesn't want the Slayer to be able to SA from, like, 100 ft away.Oh ho ho, really?
Archery is rare because archery is sort of boring and can be frustrating if the GM is constantly nerfing your damage in some not so fun ways (oh this npc sorcerer cast fickle winds too. joy.)
However archery is very strong in pathfinder combat.
Two handed weapon wielders are more common due to the percieved notion that you have to have a guy on the "front line" holding the other guy back. I've illustrated and shown a few times why it's not always necessary and why a switch hitting ranger is so frighteningly good.
Ranged rogues suck because it's hard to get SA off, however, if the Slayer has a built in ability to make SA at range easier, it could be very powerful.
[Edit] Also, if you don't think Archery is powerful, you obviously haven't seen a dedicated Archer or a switch-hitter Ranger as TarkXT mentioned.
Ranged rogues suck because it's hard to get SA off, however, if the Slayer has a built in ability to make SA at range easier, it could be very powerful.
[Edit] Also, if you don't think Archery is powerful, you obviously haven't seen a dedicated Archer or a switch-hitter Ranger as TarkXT mentioned.
Yeah, the crazy advantage archery builds hold is that they can get about twice as many opportunities to full attack. Sure some effects can mitigate them, but melee can get mitigated in other ways.
Archery is powerful? Since when? It got a lot of love with Pathfinder, don't get me wrong, but there's a reason why they're generally rarer than standard martial types like two handed weapon wielders. And just going off of Rogues, Sneak Attack Archery is so bad compared to anything else a SA class can do that it's not even worth it thanks to PF effectively nerfing the most consistent ways to get people flat-footed from 3.5
Aside from the very large feat investment to get there, archery is extremely powerful in Pathfinder.
posting out of interest. hopefully isnce he said all classes got changes, skald will be a bit better off with the new doc, despite the lack of comments on it.
rogue getting access to the investigator called shot thing might do a lot of good for the class (provided the SA trade is worth it), depending on how that's implemented/handled--i look forward to it.
also monk being able to grab brawler stuff might do the same.
all in all pretty stoked.
EDIT: @ the sherlock link: now THIS is how 18+ INT characters should fight.
I liked the Sherlock fistfight in the movie but as I see it, it will either be too strong or loose its cool when turned into a class ability.
Right now it sounds as if it's just another +x to attack or damage after doing a knowledge check.
It that's true they could just have build in the one style feat line that allows to add int to damage after a successful knowledge check.
But I'm ready to be surprised.
I liked the Sherlock fistfight in the movie but as I see it, it will either be too strong or loose its cool when turned into a class ability.
Right now it sounds as if it's just another +x to attack or damage after doing a knowledge check.
It that's true they could just have build in the one style feat line that allows to add int to damage after a successful knowledge check.But I'm ready to be surprised.
so, kirin style? or that 3.5 feat... knowledge devotion, i think.
I think it was Kirin Strike.
I wonder why they didn't mention the Skald.
While the Skald wasn't mentioned directly, after mentioning some of the classes that got the most or fewest changes, he mentioned that most of the rest got a "medium" amount of changes. So the Skald probably got a medium amount of changes.
I'm guessing that it's just the case that some of the classes are things Jason personally has spent more time with, so he has more things to say about them.
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The lack of any information or even regular communication (cheapy makes an excellent point) on the Skald's issues has saddened my heart. That was the class that made me dive headlong into the playtest.
That said, the blog post shows that they're definitely listening to our feedback, so I'm excitedly looking forward to the new updates.
I dunno. The Skald has had pretty good communication. The warpriest went something like 1500 posts without any dev comments, IIRC.
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Tels: I'm not seeing the podcast on their youtube or their website - where did you listen to it?It was a live broadcast.
Also, I believe the investigator's smeak attack is going to be replaced by an ability called "Studied Attack".
Sneak attack will be replaced by two abilities that work in concert: studied combat and studied strike.
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Hopefully the 1/3 removed isn't the blessings:(
