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Vic Wertz wrote:
Itzi wrote:
...the content creators have a lot of clout when it comes to the control of the license.
FYI, while we at Paizo are happy to provide our opinions and advice to our licensing partners, we don't dictate how they run their businesses.

While I'm sure that's true, I'd also find it really unlikely that HL people aren't paying some kind of licensing fee to include all that unredacted text, including the deity names, etc left out of the SRD.


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Bandw2 wrote:

the supposed benefit is they have reduced overhead from developing for linux, windows and mac versions and instead everything is run from a server and displayed via html so they only need 1 version of the software for all devices.

there's really no consumer benefit, and they're unlikely to do an offline model unless they completely abandon the current model as they would gain nothing if they also had an offline system.

The consumer benefit, at least nominally, is the stuff you already named: the same web app now runs on all platforms, instead of needing to adapt the system to multiple platforms as native apps (like how they never released an Android app, probably because the iOS one sucked up all the time effort available to work on mobile stuff). I've worked on phone apps, and even simple ones can eat up a ton of time and duplicated effort if you're trying to keep functionality in sync across multiple platforms, so I'm not at all surprised that they'd want to move away from that.

The problem here isn't really the subscription stuff, IMO, but that whatever server setup they're using has just enough lag in making changes that it just doesn't feel good to use. There are contrasting examples in many online-only shared wiki apps (for example, Notion), which have editing that feels real time enough that you don't notice it, even though it's also live updating for any other users looking at the same page.

If they could fix that, I feel like a lot of other complaints might vanish because it would then feel 'good enough' to make a daily driver despite the other shortcomings of a web app.


MaxAstro wrote:

I would disagree that liberators can't try to talk someone out of making certain choices. They cannot 1) force someone to act a certain way or 2) threaten someone for not acting a certain way.

That does not seem to preclude attempting to reasonably convince someone not to act a certain way; trying to talk someone out of something is not "forcing" anything.

To me, that seems like it leads some real weird places in behavior. Consider a liberator paladin confronting a mugger: he can't actually tell the mugger to stop, because that would be forcing him to act a particular way! At most, he can politely ask the mugger to stop, then beat him up if he doesn't.

Deadmanwalking wrote:
Uh...no? Nothing in the Code prohibits negotiation or giving orders

If you're ordering someone to do something, and they haven't already agreed to follow your orders (e.g. soldiers and the like), then you're forcing them to act in a particular way. Again, consider a liberator paladin in the role of a police officer: the police in conflict situations are all about ordering people to act in particular ways with the implicit or explicit threat of force.


I have to wonder how those pikas are even alive in the first place. Shouldn't they each be dead already from waking each other up at one point or another in the normal course of life?


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I don't see the problem with Craft being a make-anything skill, because the kinds of characters who are built as PCs and given full access to Craft anything by the GM are the kinds of characters who can make anything anyway. A level 10 PC with master or legendary rank in Craft isn't a historical artisan, he's a medieval-aesthetic Tony Stark.


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Hero points allow all characters to reroll d20s. The problem is, many skill uses have the secret trait, so you never actually see your skill roll to know if you should reroll it. Hide and Sneak are probably the most prominent of these, since they'll be happening regularly for ranger and rogue characters. Is it intended that these skill uses just can't benefit from hero points?


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ChibiNyan wrote:
They said combat maneuvers are still in, and supposedly decent at all levels. Kinda wanna see this to see what the Fighter will really be capable of, since I figure he'll be the best at them.

I can't trust this estimation until I see the spell list, because if they repeat stuff from PF1 then wizards will get just-as-good combat maneuvers with no investment as soon as spells like Black Tentacles are available.


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The info available so far sounds less than appealing to me. The closest thing to filling any of the many, many gaps existing fighters have is the mention of Debilitating Shot, and that still doesn't seriously help unless there are a ton of 3-action spells.

Where's the ability to smash stuff and thereby create difficult terrain for enemies? Where's the ability to interrupt movement over a large area so the fighter can actually bodyguard the wizard? Where's the ability to force enemy movement? Where's literally anything that actually helps the fighter do anything beyond "attack and deal and damage"?


sadie wrote:
Over my years following Pathfinder, I've accumulated more rulebooks than I can count, containing dozens of classes, hundreds of archetypes, and countless other options. The result being, I'm probably never going to see most of them in action. A new class came out in Ultimate Wilderness, the Shifter. It's kind of cool. I like it. Am I ever going to play it, or see anybody in any of my gaming groups play it? Probably not.

The problem I have with stuff like Shifter is less "it exists" and more "I can already do the same thing, easier and better, with other content I'm already familiar with". The real problem with the "splat treadmill" isn't that more content exists, but that most of that content is just a marginally different retread of previous content, and when some original things do show up they don't get enough support to be useful.

Consider, for example, how many spells are basically identical in mechanics with slightly different fluff, and then look at the way ranger traps offered an entirely new playstyle that nobody ever used because they were never actually made useful enough to bother with.


A standard rogue that's not terrible.

Though, really, the easiest way to do this would just be to take everything from the rogue class, smush it onto the vigilante class, and then turn the dual identity stuff into a talent tree instead of a default feature.


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To me, the oozemorph feels totally backwards. It should give you gradually better abilities to be an ooze, not gradually better abilities to NOT be an ooze.


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Corbynsonn wrote:
If it's not too strenuous can somebody let me know what archetypes/talents the Rogue has been given?

Rogue archetypes:

- Desert raider: lose trapfinding, trap sense, and one talent; gain immunity to dazzled, the ability to hide in plain sight in bright light as a -5 penalty (but not against creatures immune to blinded/dazzled), and a Perception bonus to avoid being surprised. Extremely useful with the right party composition (e.g. a caster with lots of light spells), but ONLY with the right party composition, unless all your adventuring happens at high noon.

- River rat: lose trapfinding and trap sense; gain a bonus on Swim checks, ignore difficult terrain caused by "light undergrowth and shallow bogs", and gain a bonus on saves vs disease and poison. Incredibly campaign-dependent. How many people actually run campaigns in a swamp? How often does disease actually matter beyond one encounter at a time?

- Sly saboteur: Lose trap sense, uncanny dodge, and improved uncanny dodge; gain increasing amount of normal movements in difficult terrain (including 5-foot steps), and the ability to rig mundane devices to fail and deal sneak attack damage, and to rig magic items to fail as extremely complex mundane devices and deal untyped magic sneak attack damage. The difficult terrain part is handy, but the rest seems overcomplicated and useless, since you're basically rigging up traps that aren't even as good as normal (borderline useless) traps.

- Sylvan trickster: Lose trapfinding, uncanny dodge, and improved uncanny dodge; gain wild empathy, the ability to pick witch hexes instead of rogue talents (including major hexes eventually!), resist nature's lure, and DR/cold iron. Seems extremely good to me, nearly on the level of a must-have unless you're in a game where trapfinding is actually important, especially since the witch hexes in the same book include one that's a Fort save or all special sight senses are disabled for 1 minute (darkvision, see in darkness, etc), and since the Animal Skin major hex (beast shape II at will) is huge amounts of utility for a rogue at high levels.


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Unfortunately, the final result is that the shifter is like the Feral archetype for Hunter, except worse in almost every way. Minor aspects are like animal focus, except you have to pick them in advance and they have a time limit per day, and the wild shape is more limited and not as good as normal druid wild shape.

Stuff the shifter gets that the feral hunter doesn't get:
- Two claws that get up to 1d8/x3, and you can replace the base damage of two natural attacks in wild shape with them
- The ability to use multiple minor aspects at once
- The monk AC bonus
- Another +5 BAB
- Trackless step

Stuff the feral hunter gets that the shifter doesn't get:
- No time limit on animal focus
- The ability to pick which animal focus to use each time it's used, rather than being set in advance
- Wild shape up to Huge size and beast shape III
- Wild shaping into any animal type
- 6th-level spells


CorvusMask wrote:
@Roadie: Anyhoo, the way I see it is that it can't shift into everything, but it can do unique things with shifting other classes can't like combining the forms and class is built around natural attack combat, so doesn't sound that bad for me even if it can't turn into all animal kingdoms in cool attack pattern. Helps I didn't have much of expectation besides it being a class build around shifting, so I'm not disappointed it not having only four different forms at level 20 if I understood right?

It really can't combine them, though. It's not mixing abilities you'd normally see on different creatures, like you could with a beastmorph alchemist or an agathiel vigilante (for example, getting swim, fly, and climb all at once). It's just wild shape for a single form at a time, and you get to add minor bonuses from your other aspects... but most of those minor bonuses are just +2/+4/+8 enhancement to a stat or +4/+6/+8 competence to a skill, both of which overlap with the bonus types from magic items.

The natural attack part also really isn't anything special. It just boils down to getting claw attacks that ignore some DR types, and with damage scaling you can use in place of the damage of other natural attacks in wild shape... but a beastmorph vivisectionist alchemist is getting sneak attack and an agathiel vigilante can take the lethal grace talent to get tasty damage bonuses on all their natural attacks, so neither cares about DR or base damage in the first place. Even that shapeshifter ranger I previously mentioned can get all-the-time damage bonuses with Improved Natural Attack as a bonus feat.


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CorvusMask wrote:
Seeing the backlash, I was first worried its another case of "devs avoid really hard making new class op, so people will complain about it being underwhelming" like people complained with vigilante, but it seems like its more of "people expected shifter to be able to change into more than few animals" kind of deal? That doesn't sound that bad.

The problem is that the set of options you get is just so tiny. It's a class supposedly based around shapeshifting, but for most campaigns you'll only ever get to turn into three or maybe four different things in total, and the class totally lacks any access to scaling secondary abilities that even plain old monk or fighter gets (ki powers, advanced weapon training).

Compare to, for example, a beastmorph vivisectionist alchemist. The alchemist gets to turn into lots of different man-beasts via mutagen AND has access to a bunch of self-polymorph extracts (including beast shape I through IV), and even when the alchemist can't publicly turn into stuff for social reasons he can still contribute with other extracts and with sneak attack. The only thing the alchemist doesn't have an easy thematic equivalent to is hour/level duration polymorphs... and even then the beastmorph mutagen eventually gets to an hour-plus duration.

Or for another comparison with a focus on a single animal identity, consider agathiel vigilante: you get to turn into an animal at will with no X/day or duration limits, you get your pick of abilities from beast shape I-IV spells, and you still get 10 social talents and 5 vigilante talents and vigilante specialization.


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Painful Bugger wrote:
Roadie wrote:
The ranger doesn't get the hour/level of wild shape, but otherwise is roundly better off, and is actually better at shapeshifting into random things than the shifter because of spell access.
Basically someone got extreme of tunnelvision and no external feedback so we ended up with some weird class that's very unflexible. What's even more damning is the presence of additional shape changing spells. Why couldn't the Shifter be the class that can turn into just about anything as it's whole deal?

What I'd have really liked to see would be something like a druid with the casting and animal companion removed, but wild shape broadly expanded with the ability to emulate lots of different polymorph effects, including weird stuff like Cloud Shape, spells that divine casters normally don't get like Monstrous Physique, utility powers like "turn into a Tiny animal and get a free Nondetection effect along with it", etc.


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To me, the Shifter feels like half a class: as in, somebody forgot to add the other half of the class features.

A 20th-level shifter has:
- Track
- wild empathy
- woodland stride
- 1d8/x3 claw attacks that ignore most DR
- the Monk AC bonus
- trackless step
- 5 aspects, with minor forms she can use for 23 minutes a day
- Wild shape 8/day, only as beast shape II, with extra benefits from her major forms but limited to only those five

Compare to a 20th-level shapeshifter ranger:
- Track
- wild empathy
- woodland stride
- evasion and improved evasion
- swift tracker and improved quarry
- hide in plain sight
- hunter's bond (an animal companion or granting buffs to allies)
- 5 natural weapon combat style feats (which can grant claws and ignoring some DR with claws)
- shifter's blessing 4/day, chosen from 3 forms, which can act as beast shape IV
- 5 favored enemy types, up to +10
- spells up to 4th level, which include various polymorph effects with freely-chooseable benefits (for example, greater animal aspect)

The ranger doesn't get the hour/level of wild shape, but otherwise is roundly better off, and is actually better at shapeshifting into random things than the shifter because of spell access.


Paul Wilson wrote:
Reynard wrote:
I have always thought there was room for something like Alternity's skill tricks in 3.x/PF. In that system, once you reached a certain level of skill, you learned some special uses of the skill analogous to feats. Stuff like Diversion is perfect for that.
I'm guessing that you haven't had a chance to look at Pathfinder Unchained since the Skill Unlocks option is pretty much exactly this.

The difference is that in Alternity, it's automatic instead of having to spend a limited resource on it.


For the Envoy, I feel like there's some big, interesting possibilities in giving it some supernatural improvisations and talents that give at-will or constant abilities, including utility effects and passive (but temporarily dispellable) buffs. Basically, borrow heavily from the Kineticist, the 3.5 Warlock, and the third party Avowed.

If they're good enough, this would give the class a substantial power boost and make it much more distinct from the Operative, while still having a fair distinction from the Solarian in theme because of the difference in combat focus.


Multiweapon Fighting in Starfinder is basically reversed compared to Pathfinder.

In Pathfinder, using multiple weapons gives you more attacks, but increases your attack penalty.
In Starfinder, using multiple weapons doesn't give you more attacks, but decreases your attack penalty.

Personally, I like the change, since it means that TWF/MWF is no longer the "must have" choice for certain character types (e.g. anyone with sneak attack or similar damage bonuses). Instead, it becomes another trade-off comparable to other elements of character creation.


JetSetRadio wrote:
Does anyone else think that when you get stellar revelations you should be able to choose 2 at a time instead of 1? There are 23 total and you only get to choose 10 total. Basically 5 per side. You are leaving a lot of the table basically.

It's especially painful when you consider that in Pathfinder even the poor, underwhelming kineticist gets 10 utility talents and 8 infusions (attack talents).

Seguun wrote:
Sounds like the Flavor of this class ie build a Jedi is fine but the overall power is a bit lacking. Guess I will go with the operative.

Personally, I think that the class that has the best potential to be a Jedi is actually the Envoy, at the moment. We just need somebody to write up a bunch of (Su) talent options for it that work like 3.5 warlock invocations.


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To me, overall, the Solarian suffers from the same basic issues that monk does:

- for some reason, the writers keep overvaluing being able to do equipment-related things without equipment, and

- for some reason, the writers keep overvaluing at-will abilities, even when they're weaker than what level-comparable equipment can do.


Rysky wrote:
It gets to 70 at CR 30, not by level 20 for the PCs, the Median you listed still has it in the 50s.

Whoops, thank you.

My point still stands, more or less: CMD ends up drastically higher than AC at basically anything past CR 10, and once you get into "end campaign boss" territory of CR 20+, it scales up so high that it's completely useless to consider using combat maneuvers unless you can get double-digit extra bonuses on top of your CMD.

Even that is assuming that you've got full BAB and can focus exclusively on a single attack stat (e.g. Strength). If you're a rogue, well, there's a reason that the Filcher archetype is the only 1PP rogue that can actually successfully use Steal at pretty much any time past 5th level.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
for a massive scaling +2 bonus on all combat maneuvers that stacked with the fighter's weapon training, for a total bonus of +11 at high levels. Effectively, it traded a weak defense for the best maneuver-based offense in the game.

A mere +11 to combat maneuvers is still on the weak side, given that just in Bestiary 1, median CMD by CR gets to over 70 by CR 30, while median AC only gets into the 40s.


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Imbicatus wrote:
Archery is still the most powerful combat style in the game. This isn't even a nerf, as most archers at a level where this would be relevant have clustered shots anyway.

Then why even have it, though? It's an absurdly over-fiddly thing that's irrelevant in the vast majority of cases anyway.


The NPC wrote:
Metamorph gets to shape change at 1st level, and will always have more uses per day than the Druid, and gets mutagen on top of the shifting for the ability to double up on STR bonuses. Alter self is a huge combat buff at first level, with many forms giving three primary natural attacks with darkvision and a +2 bonus to STR. Discoveries can add more to this as well.

"It can pretend to be a knockoff barbarian at low levels" is not exactly a ringing endorsement.


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I am tremendously underwhelmed by most of the archetypes, and even more by how blatantly out of whack they are as compared to each other.

For example, there's the Metamorph Alchemist, which gives up bombs and extracts completely for a limited set of self-polymorph spells X/day, starting with just alter self. Then compare that to skinshaper druid, which trades wild shape for a scaling alter self X/day ability... and still gets full spellcasting and animal companion.

Even the much-hyped vigilante archetypes dip into terribleness all over, like how the brute vigilante gets pretty much all negatives from their transformation (Large size but no ability score increase, rage-like penalties but no buffs, you have spend a talent just to make armor fit you) and has to make a Will save every single time they use their vigilante identity or attack their allies.


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Skylancer4 wrote:

I don't know, it is probably just me, but again... a customisable weapon may not be worth a class's main ability in some people's minds.

Giving out 4 weapons is plain out overpowered, even at 2 blade-skills above and beyond the normal. It makes wealth by level a joke and puts crafting feats feats to shame.

A 3+ armed soulblade should probably be an archetype that doesn't play well with most others quite frankly.

I personally see nothing overpowered about it. It does mean that a multi-armed soulknife will spend less on weaponry than, say, a multi-armed psychic warrior... but the soulknife is going to be using that extra cash anyway to cover for all the stuff that he just can't do, while the psychic warrior can pick up offensive precognition to enhance the attacks of all his weapons at once and then still has 19 other powers he can take.


Human Puppet wrote:
i like shields

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DjOL2we8ko

Human Puppet wrote:
basically its the centipede synthesis, but with shields instead

Yeah, aside from it being shields specifically, and being able to completely ignore TWF penalties, it's more or less a standard Kali-type eidolon build.

I went for the staidly cautious version here, but depending on your specific intepretation of Shield Master's wording, this might apply to *any* attack penalties with a shield - at which point there's assorted shenanigans with using Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Dazing Assault, fighting defensively, etc all at the same time.


This idea came to me when I looked at the Shield Master feat and realized something.

Quote:
You do not suffer any penalties on attack rolls made with a shield while you are wielding another weapon. Add your shield’s enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls made with the shield as if it were a weapon enhancement bonus.

So... what if you only wield multiple shields? Lots of them? Lots and lots of them?

Here's a very simple try at a build demonstrating this, put together to maximize the number of multi-weapon-wielded shields, assuming:
- a 20-point buy
- that synthesist eidolon BAB can be used to qualify for feats (albeit ones that will only work while the eidolon is active)
- that retraining has been used to select multiple feats that require BAB +11
- that the extra attack from Improved Two-Weapon Fighting applies once to each off-hand weapon (e.g. multiple times with extra sets of arms)

Spoiler:

Super Confused Power Turtle (with eidolon active)
Half-elf fighter 2/summoner (synthesist) 11
CN Large humanoid (elf, human)
Init +6; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent; Perception +4
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 30, touch 15, flat-footed 24 (+6 Dex, +12 natural, +3 shield, -1 size)
hp 115 (13 HD; 11d8+2d10+41)
Fort +11, Ref +11, Will +11 (+1 vs. fear, +4 morale bonus vs. Enchantment spells and effects); +2 vs. enchantments
Defensive Abilities evasion; Immune sleep
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee (L) +1 heavy shield bash +19/+14/+9 (4d6+21/19-20) and
. . (L) +1 heavy shield bash +19/+14/+9 (4d6+11/19-20) and
. . (L) +1 heavy shield bash +19/+14/+9 (4d6+11/19-20) and
. . (L) +1 heavy shield bash +19/+14/+9 (4d6+11/19-20) and
. . (L) +1 heavy shield bash +19/+14/+9 (4d6+11/19-20) and
. . (L) +1 heavy shield bash +19/+14/+9 (4d6+11/19-20) and
. . (L) +1 heavy shield bash +19/+14/+9 (4d6+11/19-20) and
. . (L) +1 heavy shield bash +19/+14/+9 (4d6+11/19-20) and
. . (L) +1 heavy shield bash +19/+14/+9 (4d6+11/19-20) and
. . (L) +1 heavy shield bash +19/+14/+9 (4d6+11/19-20) and
. . (L) +1 heavy shield bash +19/+14/+9 (4d6+11/19-20) and
. . (L) +1 heavy shield bash +19/+14/+9 (4d6+11/19-20)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Summoner Spell-Like Abilities (CL 11th; concentration +16)
. . 8/day—summon monster VI
Summoner (Synthesist) Spells Known (CL 11th; concentration +16)
. . 4th (3/day)—lesser planar binding (DC 19), overland flight, thaumaturgic circle
. . 3rd (5/day)—charm monster (DC 18), displacement, evolution surge (DC 18), protection from energy
. . 2nd (5/day)—detect thoughts (DC 17), lesser evolution surge (DC 17), haste, resist energy, see invisibility
. . 1st (7/day)—endure elements, enlarge person (DC 16), infernal healing, protection from evil, snowball (DC 16), unseen servant
. . 0 (at will)—arcane mark, detect magic, light, mage hand, mending, read magic
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 36, Dex 22, Con 17, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 21
Base Atk +11; CMB +22; CMD 41
Feats Bashing Finish, Greater Two-weapon Fighting, Improved Critical (shield, heavy), Improved Shield Bash, Improved Two-weapon Fighting, Power Attack, Shield Master, Shield Slam, Skill Focus (Use Magic Device), Two-weapon Fighting
Traits shield bearer (ulfen), shield-trained
Skills Craft (baskets) +10, Knowledge (arcana) +18, Knowledge (planes) +11, Perception +4, Spellcraft +18, Use Magic Device +27; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Common, Elven, Halfling, Sylvan
SQ devotion, elf blood, fused eidolon, fused link, maker's jump, shielded meld
Other Gear +1 bashing shield spikes heavy steel shield, +1 bashing shield spikes heavy steel shield, +1 bashing shield spikes heavy steel shield, +1 bashing shield spikes heavy steel shield, +1 bashing shield spikes heavy steel shield, +1 bashing shield spikes heavy steel shield, +1 bashing shield spikes heavy steel shield, +1 bashing shield spikes heavy steel shield, +1 bashing shield spikes heavy steel shield, +1 bashing shield spikes heavy steel shield, +1 bashing shield spikes heavy steel shield, +1 bashing shield spikes heavy steel shield, belt of physical might +6 (Str, Dex), headband of alluring charisma +6

(Incidentally, pop Enlarge Person and those attacks go up to 6d6 base each.)

Of course, one complication here is that buying magic shields by the dozen gets really expensive, on top of the cost of keeping Dex high enough to qualify for Greater TWF with the eidolon active.


Of course, the real problem here is that in the show, benders never have to worry about KOing themselves from nonlethal damage from using their abilities a couple of times.


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Book of Nine Munchkins

Just saying this makes it blatantly obvious you don't know what you're talking about.


As-is, there's still basically no reason for this class to be a class instead of a set of feats.


LazarX wrote:
Also keep in mind that the fire resistance is reduced by the TOTAL amount of damage you do that strike, not just 1d6.

It's reduced by the "burn damage from burning infusion", which is 1d6 per round, not by the damage of the initial blast.


LazarX wrote:
Actually I was referring to the combination of burning infusion and searing flame where the target's fire resistance is reduced by the umodified amount of damage you roll for purposes of determining it's fire resistance.

That does nothing against immunity, and reducing fire resistance by 1d6 per round isn't all that impressive, especially when somebody on fire can make a DC 15 Reflex save every round to extinguish it.


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If I was going to revise the Kineticist, my first step would be to remove "burn", gather power, infusion specialization, internal buffer, etc as a central mechanic. I'd replace it with a "you can use X points of powers per round, and increase X by 1 for the round by taking 10 points of nonlethal damage" mechanic.

It'd take some tuning, but I think it could be made to play almost exactly the same, and it'd be way less fiddly. It'd also go a long way towards making it feel less like you're being punished just for wanting to use your class abilities.


The thing about kineticist's complexity that really annoys me is that quite a lot of it is unnecessary.

Burn in particular—with its limit per round, buffer, elemental overflow, reduction of infusion costs, move actions to reduce burn costs, etc—is really overcomplicated for what it actually does in play.

I'm pretty sure you could tear out most of it, replace it with a "you can use X points worth of abilities each round; take 10 nonlethal damage to increase X by 1 for a round" mechanic, and it wouldn't change how the class works in play at all, other than allowing it to actually use move actions instead of spending them on Gather Power all the time.


I'm not sure which is the strongest, but I think fire ends up at the bottom of the heap.

Everybody and their dog has fire resist or fire immunity by mid to high levels, and unlike most of the energy types, there are a lot of high-level monsters that have fire immunity without having the fire subtype. Devils are universally immune to fire, for example, and random demons have immunity to fire on top of their demon traits.

A fire-focused kineticist is likely going to be in the unenviable position of having to lean on unraveling infusion, smoke storm, and not much else as levels go up and their main source of damage becomes less and less useful. Fire also doesn't seem to have nearly as much stuff that's generally useful no matter the enemy as the other types, since the fire battlefield-control talents all seem to rely on fire in a way that's just not very useful against fire-immune enemies. (Compare to, for example, air getting electricity damage, haste, save-or-die type suffocation, wind wall, etc.)

On this general line of thought, I'd be really interested to see somebody do an analysis of the Pathfinder APs to see how many enemies of each CR have immunity to given energy types, if it hasn't already been done already.


Rynjin wrote:
*SAD powers.

No, MAD. Int is still needed for bonus spells.

Rynjin wrote:

but the SWD change isn't the one I'm most peeved about, it's just the most recent in a long line of weird, nonsensical nerfs that are here this week.

When was the last time you heard someone say "Oh no! Vanara CLIMB TOO FAST! MY GAME IS RUINED!"?

Or "GASP! This Feat that requires AT MINIMUM a 17th level Slayer (or Rogue 12/Slayer 1) lets them Coup De Grace people as a Swift action on conditions they cannot impose on people! It's too stronk!"

Never. Because they weren't an issue.

Completely agreed.


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The change to the scarred witch doctor is really strange to me. Was there somehow some terrifying cabal of overpowered scarred witch doctors that were using their mighty MAD powers to destroy the stability of PFS?


I wish there was some way to actively rate reviews as bad, in the same way as Steam's thumbs up/thumbs down. When somebody says that Kineticist is overpowered and optimizers will flock to it, I stop believing literally anything else they have to say about mechanics.


Tels wrote:
shields as a weapon, but not as an armor (Captain America)

This strikes me as really silly.

I mean, consider the inspiration. Yeah, definitely not using a shield to defend himself.


Zhayne wrote:
Just to clarify, though ... is the assumption that the Warlock would be underpowered if ported directly to PF as is?

The warlock is underpowered in 3.5 to start with.

It starts off strong but boring at 1st level, where the ranged touch attack is king and 1d6 damage can put down almost anything with a few hits... but it gets increasingly anemic as levels increase and the question becomes not "can you hit" but "how many times can you hit" and as even the lowly fighter becomes capable of picking up a composite longbow and doing oodles of damage to things at far longer ranges than the warlock (and without having to devote an invocation or feat slot just to hit things past 60 feet).

The magic effects that last all day are nice, but the structure of D&D means they don't really matter that much except in very specific campaigns.

The invocations that get unique effects are nice, but because the warlock only gets a handful of them (and doesn't even get the multi-option toggles that a wilder does for his powers), he's like the magic version of a 3.5 fighter, with a handful of specific tricks he can do and having to fall back on magic items for anything else... but, unlike the fighter, the warlock can't even fall back on just doing absurd damage to anything that gets in his way, because he has to worry about SR, energy resistance/immunity types, and having a flat Xd6 base damage amount.


ErrantX wrote:
As the lead designer on the aforementioned Path of War supplement, I gotta say, that once I get untangled from swords and arrows, the next thing I'm going to try to pitch to my bosses at Dreamscarred Press is invokers of all shapes and colors. I loved the concept of the warlock and there is a much bigger world of possibilities out there with the chassis that it runs on.

Please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please make it more effective and actually interesting than the Warlock turned out to be in practice.

(The Harrowed is one of the more interesting takes I've seen before on the idea, but I'm guessing you've likely seen it before, what with the coworker thing.)


Skeld wrote:
If you like the 3.5 Warlock so much, why don't you just convert it over and use it?

What's the point of posting this?

This is an argument that can be used to argue against literally anything and everything that Paizo might ever want to publish, including the stuff in the ACG itself that the devs have already said they're going to change based on player feedback! ("If you want an Arcanist with non-bloodline abilities, why don't you just make some yourself?")


I'd personally prefer to see something closer to the binder than the warlock, since that'd be the way to go to produce a solid general-purpose class with at-will magic that can be at least reasonably effective at mid to high levels.

Drejk wrote:
Problem is that 3.5 Warlock is not an Open Content so the Paizo would have to create something substantially different from 3.5 Warlock to avoid possible legal problems.

Specific text can be copyrighted, but game mechanics in general can't. Paizo would have to create different specific powers and names, sure, but there'd be no trouble in taking the basic idea of "has some set of powers that can be used at-will or every few rounds, grouped into a few different types and tiered by level, with a primary damage-dealing ability that scales by level and can have extra effects added on".

This is why, for example, Dreamscarred Press can work on Path of War, which is aimed at emulating the mechanical style of Tome of Battle, but uses new classes and maneuvers.


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Sean K Reynolds wrote:
These classes do take features of two existing classes and integrate them into a new cohesive whole. If you're disappointed with the results, playtest a class or two, report back, and tell us how you think the play experience can be improved for them.

The thing people are running into here is that in a number of ways, the classes don't feel cohesive to them as compared to preexisting hybrid classes in Pathfinder.

For example, look at bloodrager, which has the magus spell list but not the spell combat and spellstrike abilities that makes that class feel like it actually mixes up casting and fighting together.

Bloodrager is leaps and bounds beyond attempting to do the same thing using multiclassing and prestige classes, but it doesn't have the little touches like the magus' spellstrike or the 3.5 beguiler's DC-increasing pseudo-sneak attack that feel like they really weld together the different parts of the class on a conceptual and mechanical level. Instead, it feels like, well, a streamlined version of putting the same concept together by multiclassing.


Watch this thread for any updates:

http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=46547


This definitely seems like a more interesting way to take things.

Depending on how versatile the arcane reservoir abilities are, they could be used for an interesting balance point by having more limited spellcasting but making the most out of magic items—in effect, something like the 3.5 Artificer's theme (if hopefully less abusable). One example that comes to mind would be burning arcane reservoir points or spell slots to put temporary charges into wands and other magic items.


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Here's a thought for hunter: combat styles, except that unlike the ranger, they're based around emulation of animal types instead of use of specific weapon combinations. This way, you get some of the wild shape flavor without literal shapechanging, and it can both subsume the teamwork feats and replace the underwhelming animal focus ability.

To emphasize the pet class element, the hunter combat style applies to both the hunter and his companion, and he might have some limited ability to apply bonuses to other party members too.

Some vague possible thoughts here:

* crow: gain Broken Wing Gambit and Swap Places; gain a bonus to Acrobatics; get a bonus to Bluff and Intimidate rolls against any creatures that has wounded a party member in the last day

* dragon: gain Amplified Rage and Wall of Flesh (even if not Small); get a minor rage ability (+2 Str/Con); get a bonus to attack any creature that a party member has wounded in the last day

* rhinoceros: gain Lookout and Tribe Mentality; gain a bonus to natural armor; get a bonus to attacking any creature that has wounded a party member in the last day

* scorpion: gain Paired Opportunists and Seize the Moment; apply a level-based poison to your attacks; get a damage bonus against creatures that you've poisoned

* wolf: gain Outflank and Pack Attack; gain scent within 30 feet; get a bonus to tracking creatures you've wounded in the past day

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