Swashbuckler Discussion


Class Discussion

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Tels wrote:


Feats:
1) Weapon Finess
3) Dervish Dance
4) Crane Style
5) Crane Wing
7) (Insert preferred Feat here)
8) (Insert preferred Feat here)
9) Crane Riposte

Uh, how are you getting Dodge and Improved Unarmed Strike in here?

Crane style would only come in here at levels 7,8,9

Plus then there is no room for weapon focus, weapon spec. I'd rather have those.


Cire wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Yeah, there's a buncha typos in this PDF. I'm sure they'll catch 'em when they go back for further editing (or at least I hope so).
We are their proofreaders apparently.

Ignore the typos, focus on the mechanics. The typos will be caught in the actual editing process. Unless the typos and grammar cause ambiguity in the rules, don't bother with them.

That's not what the playtest is for.


Tels wrote:


Feats:
1) Weapon Finess
3) Dervish Dance
4) Crane Style
5) Crane Wing
7) (Insert preferred Feat here)
8) (Insert preferred Feat here)
9) Crane Riposte

Crane Style reduces the -4 penalty to a -2 penalty, and gives a +3 dodge bonus vs a +2 bonus. Now, any sane Swashbuckler is going to have Acrobatics, so he's getting a further +1 Dodge bonus when Fighting Defensively. In total, -2 to attack for +4 to AC isn't a bad choice.

At 7th level, the Swashbuckler can auto-deflect the first attack in a round. This is significant. Previous to this, the Swashbuckler is matching his highest attack against an enemies highest attack, whereas now the Swashbuckler auto-deflects the highest attack, and then matches his highest attack against the enemies iterative attack. Now, this isn't necessarily true for monsters with multiple attacks, but the Swashbuckler tends to have an advantage when it comes to Parrying now.

At 9th level, the Swashbuckler is auto-deflecting the first hit, and gaining a free attack, and then they can use Opportune Parry to further deflect attacks in favor for more Riposte. Also, Crane Riposte lowers the attack penalty...

Unless you're dipping MoMS, Crane has Dodge and Improved Unarmed Strike as prereqs.


Beyond "balance" and "usefulness", I find the swahbuclker to be terribly disappointing.

Precise strike, nimble, weapon training, weapon mastery, bonus feats, parry, riposte...all are old things and the worst of them is bravery, seriously bravery?

This class is unispired, it really needs new mechanics inteas of using th same old ones.


Cheapy wrote:


Even without dervish dance (because seriously, with precise strike your feats are better off elsewhere),

How's that? If Dervish dance were good without it why is it not good with it? It sounds like you're not concerned with saving $50 on something that costs $500, but you were when it costs $100. 50 bucks is 50 bucks.


CRobledo wrote:
Tels wrote:


Feats:
1) Weapon Finess
3) Dervish Dance
4) Crane Style
5) Crane Wing
7) (Insert preferred Feat here)
8) (Insert preferred Feat here)
9) Crane Riposte

Uh, how are you getting Dodge and Improved Unarmed Strike in here?

Crane style would only come in here at levels 7,8,9

Sorry, forgot the Human Bonus feat. I was going to add a separate bit about the feat progression taking a little longer if you're a not a human, but I got distracted by my nephews. My mistake. I'll go back and make a note of it.


Throne wrote:
Tels wrote:
stuff
Unless you're dipping MoMS, Crane has Dodge and Improved Unarmed Strike as prereqs.

Needs more than a dip, because Crane Wing and Crane Riposte also have Dodge and IUS as prereqs.


Cire wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Yeah, there's a buncha typos in this PDF. I'm sure they'll catch 'em when they go back for further editing (or at least I hope so).
We are their proofreaders apparently.

Bah, I'd rather have it today and play with the rules and point out proofing mistakes than have to wait for the rules. They have most of a year to make it pretty and hopefully improved from our input. Maybe that's just me.


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That said, I'd be very tempted to dip 2 levels of MoMS and get Crane out of the way by second level, then proceed with buckling some swashes.

1. MoMS: Human Feat- Dodge, Standard Feat- Crane Style, Monk Feat- Crane Wing.
2. MoMS: Monk Feat- Crane Ripost.
3. Party.

I might also be tempted to take Snake Style to make use of the Twin Style and Sense Motive check for AC...

Shadow Lodge

With Opportune Parry, do you still lose the Panache point if your parry fails?

Seems like you shouldn't, because you lose out on both the attack of opportunity as well as the panache point, and don't even get to parry.

Basically you could parry an attack, fail, lose your attack of opportunity, and then have the enemy move to a better position - all based on a failed opposed roll.


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Partly On-Topic(?): I have never understood the point of limiting finesse to what it is currently limited to. Obviously rapiers are more agile than an arming sword or a bastard sword, but I think just about any weapon can benefit as much from fine-tuned application of force over sheer brute strength if a warrior makes it a point to master such a style of fighting. I would argue that it's easier to list weapons that couldn't be used with finesse than to try and pin down 'appropriate' weapons.

Also, I like this class, but it does feel a little off. This thread has given me a lot of things to reconsider.

Scarab Sages

I ran Crypt of the Everflame this evening with 4 playtest characters. One was a Swashbuckler. Notes:

First thing of note was that it was noted that if he got to keep playing the class, he'd take a dip in monk at some point in order to get Crane Style to deflect a blow and then use parry to deflect the second blow (which would be lower bonus to hit, and therefore more likely for the parry to succeed and get the AOO). I don't know if this combo has been considered, but it could be very OP if allowed to directly interact this way.

Otherwise, the character seemed very balanced and fun. Although he died, he died well.

Grand Lodge

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Another thing which seems like a copy-paste oversight of Precise strike from the duelist: you can't use it if carrying a shield, and yet the class is proficient with bucklers? Should Precise Strike work with a buckler, but not a heavier shield, or is this a deliberate compromise the Swashbuckler must make?

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

I liked this class - it actually adds something new by replacing the gunslinger deeds with panache and new deeds for a swashbuckler.


Arutema wrote:

Another thing which seems like a copy-paste oversight of Precise strike from the duelist: you can't use it if carrying a shield, and yet the class is proficient with bucklers? Should Precise Strike work with a buckler, but not a heavier shield, or is this a deliberate compromise the Swashbuckler must make?

Considering the word 'buckler' is in the classes name I'm guessing it's an oversight.

Also, shouldn't Swashbuckler be altered to:
Alternate classes: Fighter, Gunslinger, Duelist Prestige Class.

Swashbuckler pulls almost as many abilities from Duelist as the Fighter or Gunslinger, it'd only make sense.


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Why the focus on one-handed and light piercing weapons? What's wrong with scimitars, cutlasses, dueling swords, singlesticks, quarterstaffs? And firearms? I understand why some of their specific offensive options are based on fencing weapons (and, um, picks), but why is panache and more general combat options tied to those weapons? Fencing weapons are contemporous with firearms. If this class combines the gunslinger and fighter, why can't we get some of the fighter's versatility along with the gunslinger's nimbleness and grit?


I can understand not wanting to turn strength into a total dump stat. I'm one of those people who always responds with a big argument about stat utility any time anyone brings up that "all classes should have weapon finesse for free." This really is the one class though where it really just is an inherent, baked-in thematic concept that you are not particularly strong but make up for it with being super agile and witty. I'm not saying they should use dex in place of str for their attacks totally for free, right out of the box, no strings attached, but... they really do need to have some means of getting that going with their weapon of choice. Either go the Gunslinger route, have a bunch of archetypes that box you into a particular weapon, or maybe some swashbuckler-only feat, or just unlocking it at higher levels as part of the class. If nothing else, it's a problem that needs addressing because mechanically, dervish dance is a perfect solution to the problem, and I really just don't want to see a bunch of scimitar wielding swashbucklers. It's just not right if it isn't all rapiers and sword canes and maybe the odd cutlass.

I assume precise strike was intended as a compromise here, but that almost feels like a taunt when you're being handed a 15-20 crit range at level 5.

Pommel strike could probably stand to mention how it interacts with bonuses to trip.

Other than being more fun to say, is there any reason panache isn't just called grit? It would save the trouble of adding a bunch of feats and magic items that work just like their grit equivalents, although I suppose enough mention gunslinger as a specific requirement you'd need a bunch of errata.

I am totally serious when I say there is now a need to set down some specific DC guidelines for using acrobatics to swing off chandeliers and ship's rigging. Two separate deeds give bonuses to the sensible skill checks, and that's clearly the thought behind it, so it's odd to leave the specifics to on the spot GM calls.

Grand Lodge

This class feels like it relies on a bunch of situational abilities and a finite resource to be _almost_ as good as a fighter in battle, yet doesn't quite have enough out of combat abilities to make up for it.

During a game, you can expect to play second fiddle to everyone else in every situation; you can't keep up with the big boys during combat, and if you've spread your attributes around enough to survive in battle, you can't keep up with a bard, paladin, etc, in the social skill area.

Also, I'm not a huge fan of the grit mechanic. It's strange to think of non-casters running "out of juice" after a few rounds of battle. In a fantasy setting, it's a bit more believable to hear your party caster say "I'm out of spells! I used up all my magic!" but it sounds strange to think of a martial character saying "I'm out of panache! I used up all my charisma power."


Panache is different in that it does recharge by doing the things you would expect swashbucklers to be doing repeatedly without limit, i.e. stabbing.


The main problem is that it feels dexy but without finagling it a bit its better off strength based. If all you need Dex for is AC... don't use dex. there are a hundred very cheap items that all add another 1-2 points to ac.


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I believe this class needs a good Fort save, along with the current Reflex save, because guess what BOTH Gunslinger and Fighter have? Good Fort saves.

As this class is uses light armor, and is meant to be agile, I think that Evasion would be a decent fit, though there doesn't seem to be a need for Improved Evasion. Also, it would make sense to have the class add Charisma to their AC, or at least half of their Charisma, since this class, unlike the Gunslinger, is a melee fighter, and unlike Fighter, doesn't have access to medium or heavy armor.

For Swashbuckler Finesse, I think it should get the Weapon Finesse feat in addition to the ability to use One-handed weapons with DEX, as it can cause problems in various ways. Some people have a problem with the fact that you can't use it to get the Dervish Dance feat, though you also can't get the Mythic version of Weapon Finesse in a Mythic game that allows you to use DEX for damage either unless you spend a feat on regular Weapon Finesse.


You know, pommel strike is odd. You can use Pommel Strike with a dagger, to deal 1d6 points of bludgeoning damage.

A dagger deals 1d4 points of damage, while the pommel deals 1d6 points of damage? This doesn't make much sense. I understand it's a copy paste from the Gunslinger, but it's kind of odd.

Since the Swashbuckler will have a more ready source of Panache than a Gunslinger does Grit, I get the feeling some of the abilities (Death Strike and Bleeding Wounds) will be used fairly often. Being able to run up and blow Panache to add HP bleed damage, Strength bleed damage, Dexterity bleed damage, and Con bleed damage.

Then, after a few rounds, the Swashbuckler could potentially replace all of those panache points (thanks to the 15-20 crit range).

Psst... true story, bleed damage can be multiplied on a crit.


Foghammer wrote:

Partly On-Topic(?): I have never understood the point of limiting finesse to what it is currently limited to. Obviously rapiers are more agile than an arming sword or a bastard sword, but I think just about any weapon can benefit as much from fine-tuned application of force over sheer brute strength if a warrior makes it a point to master such a style of fighting. I would argue that it's easier to list weapons that couldn't be used with finesse than to try and pin down 'appropriate' weapons.

Also, I like this class, but it does feel a little off. This thread has given me a lot of things to reconsider.

Strength isn't "brute" strength. Strength is what makes you move fast. It's used to climb, attack, break stuff. Strength is "agility" in most cases. Dexterity is fine control and self-awareness, like for stealth and picking pockets. I'm not saying it has to be that finesse is limited to those weapons, but I understand the rationale.


I keep getting the feeling that panache would work better as Ki then grit but that's probably not going to happen.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
The main problem is that it feels dexy but without finagling it a bit its better off strength based. If all you need Dex for is AC... don't use dex. there are a hundred very cheap items that all add another 1-2 points to ac.

Well a swashbuckler would benefit from Dex for all the parrying and riposting with Combat Reflexes.


I think Cheapy and someone else pointed out that there will be archetypes of these classes that might address this issue, but the multi-classing restriction of not letting a swashbuckler take any levels in gunslinger, without also giving the swashbuckler some rudimentary access to firearms and not directly addressing the "panache vs. grit" matter makes me wonder what to do if a player wants to take Amateur Gunslinger for their Swashbuckler? Should I have them track grit and panache separately?

Does anyone know where (I assume a forum) someone said something related to the archetype matter introducing a "firearm" option?
*EDIT* Someone directed me to it = Link to the Blog.


I hope the "nothing in your other hand" thing is just bad copy pasting because then it will finally be possible to have a trident & shield duelist character.


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Just from the read through, there are several points I have seen on this class:

1) Limitation to piercing weapons makes the class less fun, imo Swashbuckler Finesse should let the class use more weapons with finesse than any other class, and it should be treated as having finesse for free.
Longswords, warhammers, whatever. As long as he can wield it in one hand, the Swashbuckler can use it with weapon finesse. Now that is a class ability. Giving them the ability to have Finesse for free at second level is not that big of a deal since rogues can do that also.

2) Change precise strike to mean DEX in place of STR, and let it multiply on a crit. Adding level to damage all the time will end up overpowering the class, like a paladin auto smiting everything. I'm fine with them having DEX to damage as long as they have to have a reserve panache point. Once you run out of panache, you run out of DEX to damage.

3) A second good save. I personally think a good Will save makes more sense for the class, having the swash's wit and personality protect him from mind affecting BS. Get rid of Bravery. I would even be okay with giving him a Divine Grace like ability, so long as he has panache, or a Deed that let's him blow panache points as an immediate to add his CHA to an attack/damage/save/skill check.

4) Additional attacks of opportunity. Rather than something smart, like giving more free feats in the form of Combat Reflexes, have them able to gain additional AOOs equal to CHA, and let it stack with Combat Reflexes for more uses of their class ability. Which leads me to.

5) A bonus feat at 1st level. Playing the swashbuckler, much like the gunslinger, will require a lot of feat taxing. Rather than giving away all the feats for free, and forcing the player into a niche combat style, just give them another bonus feat at 1st level that the player can burn on picking up Combat Expertise or Combat Reflexes so he can still have his feats count towards his actual character choices.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

okay, precise strike issue.

Quote:

Precise Strike (Ex): At 3rd level, as long as she has at least

1 panache point, a swashbuckler gains the ability to strike
precisely with a light or one-handed piercing melee
weapon (though not natural weapon attacks), adding her
swashbuckler level to her damage roll. To use this deed,
a swashbuckler cannot attack with a weapon in her other
hand or use a shield. A precise strike only works against
living creatures with discernible anatomies. Any creature
that is immune to critical hits is also immune to a precise
strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature
from critical hits also protects a creature from a precise
strike. The extra damage of precise strike is precision
damage, and isn’t multiplied with a critical hit.
As a swift action, a swashbuckler can spend 1 panache
point to her precise strike’s damage bonus on the next
attack.
This must be used before the end of her turn, or
it is lost.

So a couple issues.

1. That last paragraph, what?
2. What cost is it? as long as you have 1 panache point it's constantly on? or do you need to spend a point of panache?
3. On multiple attacks per turn, what attacks does this effect?
4. What action does this take?
5. What duration is this?
6. Seriously, that last paragraph? what?

Grand Lodge

The swashbuckler as a class can't benefit from its full range of abilities with the Aldori dueling sword... which is a pity because it does fit in well with the concept.

Perhaps a ruling that allows the class to also use that weapon (paying the exotic weapon feat as normal would still apply) wouldn't be a horrible addition. In terms of crit range and replenishment of Panache its a sub-optimal choice and it does cost a feat to be able to use the weapon.


Stratagemini wrote:

okay, precise strike issue.

Quote:

Precise Strike (Ex): At 3rd level, as long as she has at least

1 panache point, a swashbuckler gains the ability to strike
precisely with a light or one-handed piercing melee
weapon (though not natural weapon attacks), adding her
swashbuckler level to her damage roll. To use this deed,
a swashbuckler cannot attack with a weapon in her other
hand or use a shield. A precise strike only works against
living creatures with discernible anatomies. Any creature
that is immune to critical hits is also immune to a precise
strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature
from critical hits also protects a creature from a precise
strike. The extra damage of precise strike is precision
damage, and isn’t multiplied with a critical hit.
As a swift action, a swashbuckler can spend 1 panache
point to her precise strike’s damage bonus on the next
attack.
This must be used before the end of her turn, or
it is lost.

So a couple issues.

1. That last paragraph, what?
2. What cost is it? as long as you have 1 panache point it's constantly on? or do you need to spend a point of panache?
3. On multiple attacks per turn, what attacks does this effect?
4. What action does this take?
5. What duration is this?
6. Seriously, that last paragraph? what?

See the first post.

Jason Bulmahn wrote:
In the Precise Strike deed, in the second paragraph, replace the first sentence with the following: "As a swift action, a swashbuckler can spend 1 panache point to double her precise strike's damage bonus on the next attack"


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Just started reading this class, but lol at "Most deeds grant the Swashbuckler a monetary bonus or effect"


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Wait, why isn't the damage multiplied on a crit? That makes no sense. It's not in the original Duelist version of the ability, it breaks the usual convention of bonus (yes, multiply) and bonus die (no, don't multiply), and I don't know why it was felt this was needed. The damage scales at a very normal rate for class abilities.


RJGrady wrote:
Wait, why isn't the damage multiplied on a crit? That makes no sense. It's not in the original Duelist version of the ability, it breaks the usual convention of bonus (yes, multiply) and bonus die (no, don't multiply), and I don't know why it was felt this was needed. The damage scales at a very normal rate for class abilities.

Both the Duelist ability and the Swashbuckler ability deal precision damage, and precision damage is never multiplied on a critical hit.

Dark Archive

I like the Swashbuckler, he is cool and he has Panache which makes sense.

I already want to play one. Oddly, I think a Hobgoblin might be a good race.

My major problem is that they are very restricted and thwarted in many ways. Good Relfex only? A neccesary feat chain to make him work?

This would be more tolerable if he wasn't in the same book as the Arcanist.

The swashbuckler looks twice the fun, with less than half the power.

I'll still roll one up. Cool is cool.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Tels wrote:
Stratagemini wrote:


So a couple issues.

1. That last paragraph, what?
2. What cost is it? as long as you have 1 panache point it's constantly on? or do you need to spend a point of panache?
3. On multiple attacks per turn, what attacks does this effect?
4. What action does this take?
5. What duration is this?
6. Seriously, that last paragraph? what?

See the first post.

Thanks. that still doesn't explain whether the normal precise strike is always on or takes an action to activate though.


Well... the wording on a lot of those deeds needs to change. Lots of errors and confusing bits there. Like why does it cost 2 points to try to Stun someone at 19 but only 1 point to kill them outright?

Anywho, beyond that, I like the flavor, I like the theme, I like the idea. I think the class is junk.

The thing that makes a gunslinger good is the GUN. It is an excellent weapon.. there really isn't much that can compete with a gun.

The Swashbuckler has to use light or one handed piercing melee weapons... these are generally terrible. The swashbuckler doesn't get dex to damage? But the gunslinger does... okaayy. I mean, at the end of the day, this is yet another failed attempt to make a decent swashbuckler class. Its got style and panache (points) but its will fold mechanically as it fails to operate within the role it is attempting to fill.

For a melee class, it is offensively and defensively mediocre at best. Paizo should take a quick look at the aldori swordlord they wrote and the swordlord archtype that leads into it. There is a better swashbuckler right there.


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Good:
1. Full BAB
2. Skills
3. Precise Strike (it's perfect, no need to change)
5. Nimble
6. Deeds+Panache
7. Swashbuckler Weapon Training

Bad, but it's ok because not everything needs to be good:
1. Bravery
2. Some bad deeds

Things bad enough to change:
1. Swashbuckler finesse should be level one and be Bonus feat Weapon finesse.
2. All requirements for "one handed piercing weapons" should instead be "weapon finesse weapons"
3. Needs one more good save. Will and Fort both make sense for various reasons.

Also, please add a Greater Weapon finesse feat so that players can use a weapon other than scimitar for this class.


It's very unfortunate that the swashbuckler relies on light or one-handed piercing weapons. When I think of a piratey swashbuckler, I would immediately want to go for cutlass or scimitar before a rapier.

And if there's anything I learned from Metal Gear Rising, it's that katanas are fun for parrying. :D


Also, I think it would be wonderful to see something that encourages the use of a single weapon swashbuckler with nothing in the off-hand (though I suppose a feat tree or archetype could be coming for that). I think that's a far more iconic image for a swashbuckler, and the free hand could open up some fun in-combat options.


Stratagemini wrote:
Tels wrote:
Stratagemini wrote:


So a couple issues.

1. That last paragraph, what?
2. What cost is it? as long as you have 1 panache point it's constantly on? or do you need to spend a point of panache?
3. On multiple attacks per turn, what attacks does this effect?
4. What action does this take?
5. What duration is this?
6. Seriously, that last paragraph? what?

See the first post.
Thanks. that still doesn't explain whether the normal precise strike is always on or takes an action to activate though.

Uh... did you not read the ability?

Precise Strike wrote:

At 3rd level, as long as she has at least

1 panache point, a swashbuckler gains the ability to strike
precisely with a light or one-handed piercing melee
weapon (though not natural weapon attacks), adding her
swashbuckler level to her damage roll.

If you have 1 panache point, you add your Swashbuckler level to damage rolls. It's like Monks using Ki Strike. If a Monk has one Ki point, he gains the benefits of Ki Strike.

It's always on as long as you have 1 Panache remaining.


CRobledo wrote:
Throne wrote:
Tels wrote:
stuff
Unless you're dipping MoMS, Crane has Dodge and Improved Unarmed Strike as prereqs.
Needs more than a dip, because Crane Wing and Crane Riposte also have Dodge and IUS as prereqs.

Both of which you get as lvl 1 MoMS. IUS is non-negotiable, and Dodge you want anyway. If you're not playing a Human (or something else that can pick up Dodge as a 1st lvl bonus feat) then you can't complete Crane by lvl 2, but 1 lvl of monk still sets you up for taking them at the earliest possible time.


There is. Precise strike adds level to dmg if you are only weilding one weapon with nothing in the off-hand.

Still... add dex to damage and we can start to talk about the class being something. Until then, why finesse? I'll just two-hand a heavy pick and work on those same power attack bonuses as always.

And of course, this is the problem with not fundamentally changing the stat dynamic. They can throw finesse at fighters all day... strength is still the way to go.

This has been true for rogues for a really long time... thematically it doesn't match up, but a rogue is better off grabbing a high strength and swinging a 2-hander. I would like a reason NOT to.


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If it can't do Swordlord swashbuckler, buckler-and-shortsword swashbuckler, rapier-and-dagger swashbuckler, and cutlass swashbuckler, it needs more time in the oven.


For a favorite class idea to come so close but to miss is sad. I have a few problems with swashbuckler. Start with the first, saves. Only one good save and then bravery. And don't really have the fighters feat pool to pay the taxes to now get mind raped and make major feat chains. At least not for us who don't play to max level.
Next is the -4 on parrying larger things. Make this really unusable to halfling and any small race.
How about buckler? Proficient in them as our only shield but use it is cripple your class?


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Things I love: The panache system, these deeds are great, exactly the sort of thing I was hoping for with this class.

Things I dislike:
(1) Limited weapon selection. Requiring piercing one handed makes little to no sense. Look at any of the various robin hood movies to see somebody finessing a longsword, this doesn't really feel like a necessary balance issue here, Piercing weapons are not usually inherently weaker than slashing or bludgeoning, so this is a flavor thing that ends up causing problems cut it.

(2) dervish danceing. I know that this class isn't really the problem, the real problem is that there is only 1 non-mythic way to get the ability to do dex to damage before you can afford a +2 weapon. But when you combine the aforementioned weapon restrictions with the benefits of dervish dancing it produces a clear advantage for scimitar based builds.

Things that drive me crazy: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD IF YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE A DEX FOCUSED CLASS AND GIVE IT WEAPON FINESSE GIVE IT AT LEVEL 1! right now you have at least one level of completely sucking before you can actually play the class as it sees it was meant to be played.

The Exchange

Pointing out some typos.

"Menacing Swordplay: At 3rd level, while she at least 1 panache..."

Precise Strike
"As a swift action, a swashbuckler can spend 1 panache point to her precise strike's damage bonus on the next attack."

Also, Precise Strike... the opening paragraph seems to imply a handful of conditions for it to work, and then the final paragraph sounds quite contradictory. Spending points and requiring swift actions: Is this part a mixup?

Swashbuckler Initiative: This is basically just +2 to initiative... the second part is pretty unnecessary; you get the option to spend panache and parry, make an opportunity attack, I guess? It might need something more.


Virilitas wrote:

Pointing out some typos.

"Menacing Swordplay: At 3rd level, while she at least 1 panache..."

Precise Strike
"As a swift action, a swashbuckler can spend 1 panache point to her precise strike's damage bonus on the next attack."

Also, Precise Strike... the opening paragraph seems to imply a handful of conditions for it to work, and then the final paragraph sounds quite contradictory. Spending points and requiring swift actions: Is this part a mixup?

Swashbuckler Initiative: This is basically just +2 to initiative... the second part is pretty unnecessary; you get the option to spend panache and parry, make an opportunity attack, I guess? It might need something more.

Read the first post please.


I only got to skim it a bit before I got to work and giving them the effects of weapon finesse without saying the ability functions as weapon finesse for acquisition of feats and other abilities was odd. One handed piercing weapons huh, rapier is iconic but my mind immediately went to a swashbuckler with a heavy pick. With the improved critical that it receives I'd take the extra damage and rarity than all the time. Yes all the time fills up your panache faster and you can use it more, but making critical hits an integral part of the class just seems wrong. I'd rather my critical hits be more important therefore swashbuckler with a heavy pick. Overall it looked decent, minus the poor fort save on a front liner.


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One strange thought...

With Parry and Reposte being really strong, would it be possible to just "ignore" AC and go for high +hit?

Reason being that with high AC you only weed out the attacks that would be easy to parry anyway.

If your opponents needs to roll a natural 15-20 to hit,
you need the same to parry if you have a similar +hit.

Him having 25% to hit you and you have 25% to parry means:
75% he misses, wasted parry penache point.
18.75% he hit you, but you miss your parry
6.25% he hits you, you parry and get a AOO

You get your AOO not very often :(

Now, if your AC was 5 points lower so that he only needs to roll a nat. 10-20 (and meaning you do the same for parrying):

50% he misses, wasted parry penache point.
25% he hit you, but you miss your parry
25% he hits you, you parry and get a AOO

He would hit you slightly more (+6.25%), but you would get 4 times as many AOOs

Any +Hit bonus you can grab of course only makes this better.

Now I know, this is very circumstantial, as the penache cost is really high and your AOOs are limited.

Are there any ways to temporarly lower your AC to get a +hit bonus like Reckless Abandon for rage?

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