Almost dying due to incompetence, what should I do?


Advice

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DM Under The Bridge wrote:
Cap. Darling wrote:
DM Under The Bridge wrote:
MrSin wrote:
DM Under The Bridge wrote:
Ha... ha... Just recently someone was saying almighty spellcasters cannot be killed by dreadfully inferior rogues. I was saying that a summoner sitting back and sending stuff in can be killed very quickly by rogues, but oh how it was rejected. A summoner out of formation and not protected from shanking is really vulnerable.
What does this have to do with what was said?

"The summoner is actually the very first person to die in the campaign. Two rogues sneaked up on him and Stabbeh stabbeh, down goes the gnomish summoner."

Read what Taku said.

Nice for you that "someone" was proven wrong. But what you Said is still not relevant. :)

Nope, it is still relevant. Taku is the first poster and started this thread, I have been responding to the added detail (here concerning the ganking of a summoner). You can argue if you want, a thousand posts of denial, but MrSin asked how was what I said relevant, when I was simply responding to part of Taku's story.

Incompetence and player death, I think the problem is rushing in or not thinking before declaring actions. Some dungeons or groups of foes can really wipe the floor with a party that just strolls in confident they will be okay, or approach with no plan trusting in the dice.

Many spellcasters are also vulnerable to really simple ganking, but not as much as when they were d4 hit die. This may indicate incompetence, but I don't think it does by default.

edit: sorry my som hit the keyboard so i send before writing. My point was that the death of the summoner is not part of the episode we are takling about here and nobody here have startet that a summoner cannot be ganked by ninjas popindustri out of hiding.

And i agree with the incompetent part of the encounter we talk about here is the præmature attacking from the OP.

Silver Crusade

Poldaran wrote:
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

Er, given what you've told us in this thread, what the heck are you thankful for? : )

Oh. 'Turkey'. Right.

Anyone who can't come up with at least three desserts they're thankful for before resorting to "turkey" is doing Thanksgiving wrong, IMO.

We don't have that holiday over here. We have bonfire night instead.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Reading all of Taku Ooka Nin's posts, it *seems* like his group is all on the same page, agreed to the ludicrously-overpowered build, and jealousy isn't an issue.

*HOWEVER*

This sounds WAAAAAY too much like the gaming groups I played in decades ago when I was in my early 20's. Everyone agreed that anyone could play any race, no matter how OP, and the GM would 'adjust'. What always ended up happening was that the other party members would get sick of the OP player's showboating, and would try their best, through action or inaction, to get that party member killed.

So a fundamental question is: Was it incompetence or malice? Are the other players so sick of watching you say, "Oh, that bounces off because of my DR," that they actively want to see you die? If I were in that group, I would definitely fall into the latter category: We agreed to allow any races, someone abused the privilege horrifically, and I'd passively-agressively choose extremely sub-optimal tactics and actions in an attempt to get that player killed. We all did that; we were in our early 20's, and we considered it "fun" and "well-deserved comeuppance".

So you might also want to talk to the other players one-on-one and ask them individually, "In all honesty, what do you think of my character?"

The answers may surprise you.

Dark Archive

golem101 wrote:
Taku Ooka Nin wrote:

Precursor:

Every time we are camping for the night I dig a 10-ft deep trench around our camp so we will get some early warning and a buffer from mindless enemies attacking our fortified position.

Sorry but my brain kinda crashed into a brick wall and refused to read further after this.

You dig a 10 ft. deep (about 3 metres) trench every time you camp around a defensive area. Every time. 10 ft. deep.

Even with a gross approximation, how long is this trench? Do you accomplish this herculean feat alone? Do you have some kind of magic assistance in doing this?

I was thinking the same thing...


Taku Ooka Nin wrote:

I told the DM I wasn't going to make suggestions of the XP system or how he runs things, I am mostly there to play and be the Rule Naz--lawyer to make sure everything is working how it is supposed to in the mechanical sense.

I remember games like this... ah to be young again. However, the above statement is troubling. If that is the way your new DM wants it, then fine. Otherwise, you aren't helping him learn anything except the rules. Knowing the rules is only a part of being a DM, it's the easy, number-juggling science side of it. If you aren't helping him with the artistic and people-juggling side of it, you are neglecting half the job (and some would argue the more important half). That doesn't mean dictating things to him or saying "this is how I would run it". It means offering constructive feedback on how the game is going. Perhaps suggesting ways between sessions on how, as the DM, he can create challenges that draw the two Rogues into the game and into their characters. Maybe encourage him to run a session without the high level characters so he and the remaining folks can play catch up AND they can narrow down what they want from the game.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:


Ah! I get it now! Summoners have a summon SLA,...biscuit!

Yes you are right the summoner does not need to dismiss with an action, the existing summons is dismissed the moment he summons another. I broke it up line by line because I though it would make reading it easier. :)

I think you'll find that his ability isn't that bad. For example if he was sending say those eagles your way...well DR 10 doesn't care about 1d4+1 no matter how many attacks per round they get. I like the minute/level duration...makes summoning the critters as short-range scouts/trapfinders or say flying mounts to negotiate a crevasse much more practical.

And course, take out the summoner and all his pets go poof.

I find summoners on the higher end of the power scale...but not at the top. Core classes can outperform them. I'll take a Admixture Evoker over a summoner in a prolonged campaign any day. I will however take an Eidolon over a fighter on occasion. :)


Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
Poldaran wrote:
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

Er, given what you've told us in this thread, what the heck are you thankful for? : )

Oh. 'Turkey'. Right.

Anyone who can't come up with at least three desserts they're thankful for before resorting to "turkey" is doing Thanksgiving wrong, IMO.
We don't have that holiday over here. We have bonfire night instead.

Well, whatever you're doing, add three desserts.


NobodysHome wrote:
[ . . . ]This sounds WAAAAAY too much like the gaming groups I played in decades ago when I was in my early 20's. Everyone agreed that anyone could play any race, no matter how OP, and the GM would 'adjust'. What always ended up happening was that the other party members would get sick of the OP player's showboating, and would try their best, through action or inaction, to get that party member killed.[ . . . ]

Now there is more than only 1.

Instead of 1 showboat werewolf, there are 2.

XD

Our drills are the drills that will pierce the heavens!


Aazen wrote:
*Slips on Jack Nicholson hat* This game needs an enema. *Takes off Jack Nicholson hat* I'd suggest a group meeting to sit around the table and do rebuilds with input from everyone on character creation. There is such special snowflake shenanigans going on, its disrupting the party dynamic. With the group knowing what everyone is capable of, it there will hopefully be more interaction. As for the IPAD/Electronics thing? If the GM banned them, stick by the ban. It's better to have no player than a bad player. That's what MMO's are for.

I agree with that.

Shadow Lodge

So anyway, you really build a 10ft deep trench every time you camp? That's really not a joke you threw in?


Avatar-1 wrote:
So anyway, you really build a 10ft deep trench every time you camp? That's really not a joke you threw in?

It is actually a 900 foot deep trench, the cleric has to reroll after all the falling damage.

She was like,
"I survive a tower falling down, and then die because I jump over a 5 foot wide hole? Son of a b*+$+!"
<<I take exception to that.>>
"Whatever dog-boy!"

=P

Shadow Lodge

4 people marked this as a favorite.

My days of not taking you seriously are coming to a middle.


Taku Ooka Nin wrote:
"Whatever dog-boy!"

"Don't blame me, I'm just a dog. Woof woof!" Give them puppy eyes, make them feel bad!


TOZ wrote:
My days of not taking you seriously are coming to a middle.

Not taking me seriously is only to your own detriment, unless I'm being facetious, at which point it doesn't matter. :)

MrSin wrote:
Taku Ooka Nin wrote:
"Whatever dog-boy!"
"Don't blame me, I'm just a dog. Woof woof!" Give them puppy eyes, make them feel bad!

I just go into wolf form and act like I don't understand, and try to talk back with wolf sounds.

Dark Archive

The End.

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Yeah... the whole nightly trench excavation kind of made me facepalm for a while, but then I read the rest and I wish I stayed in the trench.

Epic Mary Sue characters are party killers, and if these are some new, young players, all they are learning is that one all star can do everything and they don't have to learn to do anything else.

Others have given some good advice already and all I would add is that with a group and DM composition like you described, straying too far from the rules is a bad idea. Sometimes it is better to keep it simple.


Fomsie wrote:
[ . . . ]Epic Mary Sue characters are party killers, and if these are some new, young players[ . . . ]

If you feel Silastrix is a mary sue for being able to do 3 things(Fight melee, blast, mitigate damage) very well then you have no clue what a mary sue is.

A mary sue is Better at doing everything the specialists are good at, while being able to fill any/all of their roles.
lvl 5 primary fighter aiming for damage should do
+11/+9[power attack](1d8/1d10/1d12)+(5/7)+(2/3)
(8 - 18/20/22) damage each hit with their weapon focused weapon each hit.

A level 5 sorcerer (cross blooded:Orc/Draconic[energy type one focuses on]) who is built for damage should be able to do
(5d4/5d6)
(15 - 22.5 - 30/15 - 27.5 - 40) (Burning hands/Shocking Grasp)
damage with a save of
DC 16/17/18/19/20 (no feats/+Spell focus/+Greater spell focus/+Elemental focus/+Greater elemental focus)
Add in intensify spell and the damage will increase to being doubled at level 10.

Silastrix is nowhere near these capabilities, he just relies on Damage reduction 10/silver and elemental resistances 5(cold/fire/electricity/acid) to keep him alive.

I know he is going to start falling behind as we gain levels, and if there wasn't a level inequality due to the XP system this would be more apparent.

The DR10 is quickly becoming a non-issue since the enemies are going to be able to regularly punch through it(or use silver weapons which any enemy from Kleg should be using at this point), therefore making AC a higher priority since completely avoiding damage is better than hoping you can mitigate it all.

Tomorrow I think we are going to try to curb stomp Kleg like in American History X. Silastrix is hoping for a challenge worthy of dragon kind.

If all else fails I can at least know I can come home to play Godhand since I just found it on PSN. Such a gem.


This is from another thread. But look!

Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Vivianne Laflamme wrote:
Malwing wrote:
Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Hey there folks,

There is some great discussion in this thread. We are working on some big solutions for this class that I am hoping to share with all of you later on today. Keep a look out for it later this afternoon.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

But, but, I have a game in 30 mins. I won't be able to see it til tomorrow!
It's currently 6:40pm in Seattle. It likely won't be up until tomorrow anyway.

I would not assume that to be true... I am still at the office.

While folks will not be getting new rules just yet, I think I will be floating conceptual ideas with some examples later on here tonight. I have James' game here in a bit, but I have my tablet with me, so I can continue working.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

Jason is the rogue on the IPad;)


If you are wondering what happened this game, we ran into 3 more Assassin Vines and our rogue(Batman) decided to run in. The DM didn't want to kill him, so, he had a rogue gunslinger run up and kill the other two assassin vines. This gunslinger was named "Joe Chill."
"Joe Chill saved your ass," he whispered to Batman, then ran off.
The party killed the last assassin vine with no problem.

Anyway, what happened afterwards is this, as posted somewhere else in a post about a particular monster:

So, in our last game and the DM began to laugh, and afterwards he explained "wow, these creatures are broken. If I have them act intelligently, you all die."
We were then approached by white rabbits.
First there was only one.
It nibbled on someone's cloak.
Then the dwarven rogue drank Dwarven Fire Ale and chopped its head off.
Then

.

.

.

there were a lot of them, like 15 of them all surrounding the party! We rolled initiative! The rabbits went last. I looked outside my tent and saw a slaughter that has never been seen since the civil war after Aroden died. Rabbit heads soaring through the air with still confused expressions, hell hounds summoned from the very depths of the lower planes rending rabbit head from body and burning white fur from muscle and flesh!

Then, as the rabbits died the ring of wood and tender and rabbit corpses we built around our camp caught fire.

In the trees above we saw

.

.

.

HARPIES!

They began to sing and six of the seven party members were captivated. If it wasn't for Baron Nimish Baron-baron all would have been lost as his ARMY OF HELL HOUNDS BURNED THEM ALL.

So, after the smell of burning rabbits, burning rabbit turds that were released in fear of fire breathing dogs, and burning women who never bathed, and burning harpy turds rent from intestines by aforementioned hounds of fire-breathing we decided to travel a couple hundred feet and remake our camp.

Digital Products Assistant

Removed a few posts. Accusations of trolling are not OK here.

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