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I hope the brawler beats up the monk and takes his stuff.
Depending on who you ask, the monk:
a) doesn't have any stuff;
b) doesn't have any stuff that the rest of his party doesn't already have, only they have better versions;
c) only has an "Ay-omph" whatever that is, which does or doesn't work depending on which side of the "FAKWeh" continuum you are straddling
d) is way too mystical to lower him/herself to mere dustups with as yet unreleased "hybrids"
e) will be safe as long as he/she is within 6" of a wall
f) has a lot to kick about
g) will merely feign death and return as a Grand Master of Flowers, decapitate the brawler with a fierce look and proceed to use the brawler's neck as a toilet, even with d4 HD.
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So, zero loss for the Monk fans and a great gain for the others. What is there to be worried about ?
Speaking only for myself, I'm worried about what this could mean for the monk getting up to speed, as it has the flavor I've always wanted in the signature martial artist class. Given what's been said about the brawler on the larger ACG thread, it looks to be going in a different direction flavor-wise. No mysticism, armored, and no enlightened self-perfection.
I'm not saying there isn't room for the brawler, but I'm really hoping its presence doesn't lead to arguments of "just play a brawler" when one is talking about helping the monk keep up or be more intuitive to make.
I'm hopeful. Just worried too.
I always did like that if the party is imprisoned, or disarmed to attend a feast, wedding, court or the homes of the elite, the monk is never actually disarmed by losing all of their "weapons". The monk smiles.I just used illusions. Don't know bout' yous. If to make yourself happy you have to make everyone else suck, something's wrong. Besides, casters still reign supreme in those situations.
Dimension Dooring?Never said there wasn't any. He also has Lawful Magical super fist!
Sin, what is wrong with you?
I did not say I had to make myself happy I have to "make everyone else suck", what I was getting at was this. Whatever happens in game, you can't take their weapons--their hands and feet are their weapons. Their weapons cannot be lost, stolen, disintegrated or de-enchanted. You can't take their mobility (except by encasing them in a set of full plate, lol), they keep their ki abilities in antimagic fields, dispel doesn't work on them, and so forth. The monk is a strange creature, and in an intrigue game their ability to walk around armed while unarmed could be quite helpful to the party.
So, zero loss for the Monk fans and a great gain for the others. What is there to be worried about ?Speaking only for myself, I'm worried about what this could mean for the monk getting up to speed, as it has the flavor I've always wanted in the signature martial artist class. Given what's been said about the brawler on the larger ACG thread, it looks to be going in a different direction flavor-wise. No mysticism, armored, and no enlightened self-perfection.
I'm not saying there isn't room for the brawler, but I'm really hoping its presence doesn't lead to arguments of "just play a brawler" when one is talking about helping the monk keep up or be more intuitive to make.
I'm hopeful. Just worried too.
I hope they watch a lot of Bruce Lee movies while they are making the class.
If it comes with an in-built DR against claws, and claw like attacks, I may swoon.
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Except, you know, the Monk has been tested. Often. Not sure where you're getting this from, you were part of one such test before.I was wondering when this thread would be created.Why wait to see the class before you complain.
It isn't like most of these threads aren't based of untested assumptions anyway...
1. "most"
2. And the results were...
The crazy thing is that this is almost 100 posts in under 12 hours and the playtest isn't even out! Imagine the flurry when it does come out.I was wondering when this thread would be created.Why wait to see the class before you complain.
It isn't like most of these threads aren't based of untested assumptions anyway...
The Monk can use flurry of blows...while the brawler evidently has flurry of posts ;)
The crazy thing is that this is almost 100 posts in under 12 hours and the playtest isn't even out! Imagine the flurry when it does come out.I was wondering when this thread would be created.Why wait to see the class before you complain.
It isn't like most of these threads aren't based of untested assumptions anyway...
Imagine the flurry if we have alignment restrictions. Moar alignment debates and self justifications!
Well, I'm sure some of the options they will include for the Brawler (magic items and feats and other stuff) will also help the Monk.
But, really looking forward to the Brawler, although the class name is god-awful.
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*Enters room*
*Weaves his way through the crowd and crosses the room while humming the theme to "The Incredible Mr. Limpet"*
*Exits room*
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Why would we do that when we can engage in rampant speculation based on only a couple sentences?
Heh. One member Paizo staff feed off speculation way undead feed off positive energy.
But me like this news. Later year will come with Book About Tian Xia add more monkishness.
But, really looking forward to the Brawler, although the class name is god-awful.
Should be Slugger.
Well, I'm sure some of the options they will include for the Brawler (magic items and feats and other stuff) will also help the Monk.
But, really looking forward to the Brawler, although the class name is god-awful.
Not a big deal, considering that you can call it whatever you like.
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I agree, Brawler should be renamed to Doomfist ir DeathShadowKick...Von Punchyface!
How about Kickpuncher?
Six seasons and a movie!
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I agree, Brawler should be renamed to Doomfist ir DeathShadowKick...Von Punchyface!How about Kickpuncher?
Six seasons and a movie!
Pugilist would be most fitting imo.
Monk, monk, monk! Is that all that anyone can talk about? What of the Slayer having the Death Attack ability later in levels? When a class has that and sneak attack, for what reason do you even need an assassin prestige class? It will be like that prestige class that has no formal society in the Pathfinder game world (even though introducing those is a large part of what prestige classes are for) would lose what tentative place it still has.
Will no one think of the assassins?!?!?
;-)
Monk, monk, monk! Is that all that anyone can talk about? What of the Slayer having the Death Attack ability later in levels? When a class has that and sneak attack, for what reason do you even need an assassin prestige class? It will be like that prestige class that has no formal society in the Pathfinder game world (even though introducing those is a large part of what prestige classes are for) would lose what tentative place it still has.
Will no one think of the assassins?!?!?
;-)
Probably not considering they have to be evil. And the majority of adventuring parties are good and neutral aligned.
Probably not considering they have to be evil. And the majority of adventuring parties are good and neutral aligned.Monk, monk, monk! Is that all that anyone can talk about? What of the Slayer having the Death Attack ability later in levels? When a class has that and sneak attack, for what reason do you even need an assassin prestige class? It will be like that prestige class that has no formal society in the Pathfinder game world (even though introducing those is a large part of what prestige classes are for) would lose what tentative place it still has.
Will no one think of the assassins?!?!?
;-)
That was winky-sarcastic face at the end there. I'll be overjoyed if the old assassin prestige class becomes completely obsolete. Not all assassin characters should be evil. There is a lot of grey area there to be explored.
Inb4 the Slayer is the first full class with "Any Evil" alignment restrictions.
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I have been waiting for a fighter that uses only hands, but doesn't have the eastern bent of the monk. Look at it this way:
Brawler = boxer, mix-martial artist, etc...
Monk = karate, kung-fu, akido, etc...
They are both VERY different in their discipline and design, but achieve the same goal; a front-line fighter that uses their body as a weapon.
That was winky-sarcastic face at the end there. I'll be overjoyed if the old assassin prestige class becomes completely obsolete. Not all assassin characters should be evil. There is a lot of grey area there to be explored.Probably not considering they have to be evil. And the majority of adventuring parties are good and neutral aligned.Monk, monk, monk! Is that all that anyone can talk about? What of the Slayer having the Death Attack ability later in levels? When a class has that and sneak attack, for what reason do you even need an assassin prestige class? It will be like that prestige class that has no formal society in the Pathfinder game world (even though introducing those is a large part of what prestige classes are for) would lose what tentative place it still has.
Will no one think of the assassins?!?!?
;-)
In my thoughts on the Slayer earlier, I'd actually be quite frustrated if Slayers got a Death Attack as Save or Dies are literally the worst things in the game. Period. For everyone involved.
Inb4 the Slayer is the first full class with "Any Evil" alignment restrictions.
That would make me a sad panda!
I have been waiting for a fighter that uses only hands, but doesn't have the eastern bent of the monk. Look at it this way:
Brawler = boxer, mix-martial artist, etc...
Monk = karate, kung-fu, akido, etc...
They are both VERY different in their discipline and design, but achieve the same goal; a front-line fighter that uses their body as a weapon.
Considering the fact that a lot of Mixed-Martial artists draw heavily from things like Kung-fu, Akido, Muay-Thai... your statement doesn't make sense.
Inb4 the Slayer is the first full class with "Any Evil" alignment restrictions.That would make me a sad panda!
I believe they said that it wouldn't have to be Evil.
Yup. Hopefully the tactical feat support for swashbucklers, slayers and brawlers, teamwork feat support for Hunters and no feats for the non-existent Warpriest will rock the house!!!
Monk, monk, monk! Is that all that anyone can talk about? What of the Slayer having the Death Attack ability later in levels? When a class has that and sneak attack, for what reason do you even need an assassin prestige class? It will be like that prestige class that has no formal society in the Pathfinder game world (even though introducing those is a large part of what prestige classes are for) would lose what tentative place it still has.
Will no one think of the assassins?!?!?
;-)
So you're saying, Paizo
(•_•)( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)
is killing off the assassin PrC (again)?
Haha, yeah. This reminds me of the frenzy over the Tome of Battle classes in 3.5 and the argument that they made many existing melee classes obsolete. That was mostly a problem because it was attached to a new quasi-magic subsystem and all the over-the-top maneuver names. At any rate, the doubt the brawler will have that problem...
We call the Brawler, "Kick Ass";)
I have been waiting for a fighter that uses only hands, but doesn't have the eastern bent of the monk. Look at it this way:
Brawler = boxer, mix-martial artist, etc...
Monk = karate, kung-fu, akido, etc...
They are both VERY different in their discipline and design, but achieve the same goal; a front-line fighter that uses their body as a weapon.
I thought that the monk-is-fine crowd has already established front-line fighting isn't the monk's purpose
I have been waiting for a fighter that uses only hands, but doesn't have the eastern bent of the monk. Look at it this way:
Brawler = boxer, mix-martial artist, etc...
Monk = karate, kung-fu, akido, etc...
They are both VERY different in their discipline and design, but achieve the same goal; a front-line fighter that uses their body as a weapon.
You can easily remove the flavor of the monk and replace it. I *always* do that.
I thought that the monk-is-fine crowd has already established front-line fighting isn't the monk's purposeI have been waiting for a fighter that uses only hands, but doesn't have the eastern bent of the monk. Look at it this way:
Brawler = boxer, mix-martial artist, etc...
Monk = karate, kung-fu, akido, etc...
They are both VERY different in their discipline and design, but achieve the same goal; a front-line fighter that uses their body as a weapon.
Who would that be... the zen archers?
Any other monk is fist to fist with an opponent. Its hard to get more front line than that.
Monk, monk, monk! Is that all that anyone can talk about? What of the Slayer having the Death Attack ability later in levels? When a class has that and sneak attack, for what reason do you even need an assassin prestige class? It will be like that prestige class that has no formal society in the Pathfinder game world (even though introducing those is a large part of what prestige classes are for) would lose what tentative place it still has.
Will no one think of the assassins?!?!?
;-)
So you're saying, Paizo
(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)
is killing off the assassin PrC (again)?
YEEEEAAAAAAAH!!!!!
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I thought that the monk-is-fine crowd has already established front-line fighting isn't the monk's purposeI have been waiting for a fighter that uses only hands, but doesn't have the eastern bent of the monk. Look at it this way:
Brawler = boxer, mix-martial artist, etc...
Monk = karate, kung-fu, akido, etc...
They are both VERY different in their discipline and design, but achieve the same goal; a front-line fighter that uses their body as a weapon.
Who would that be... the zen archers?
Any other monk is fist to fist with an opponent. Its hard to get more front line than that.
Well, optimally sword flurrying...which is part of the problem...
If this is the "solution" I can live with it.
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New players won't realize that. Monk flavor = Bruce Lee, not mage-punishing skirmisher.I thought that the monk-is-fine crowd has already established front-line fighting isn't the monk's purposeI have been waiting for a fighter that uses only hands, but doesn't have the eastern bent of the monk. Look at it this way:
Brawler = boxer, mix-martial artist, etc...
Monk = karate, kung-fu, akido, etc...
They are both VERY different in their discipline and design, but achieve the same goal; a front-line fighter that uses their body as a weapon.
Is that what their purpose is supposed to be?
Is that really enough of a niche to justify a whole character class? Do they really do it well enough to suck in any fights where it doesn't come up?Is any other class focused on that narrow a niche? Even it's archetypes, Zen Archer aside.
We won't know until it is released, but the implication at least is a focus on maneuvers, which could be an interesting and distinct class.
Think "Wrestler".
But again, we will see in two days :)
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You know, I'd honestly be much more concerned for the fighter than the Monk, personally.
A class that gets some class features, probably more than one good saves, good HP, full BaB, a main weapon that powers up as they level, and probably doesn't need to worry about maneuverability and armor. Both classes already get built in Bonus Feats that are probably going to play in directly to their focus, and the Brawler seems like it will not have another of the Fighter's main complaints in needing to rely on others (buffs) to make them work past the early levels. Presumably some skills, too.
Really, why would you ever play a normal Fighter after that?
You know, I'd honestly be much more concerned for the fighter than the Monk, personally.
A class that gets some class features, probably more than one good saves, good HP, full BaB, a main weapon that powers up as they level, and probably doesn't need to worry about maneuverability and armor. Both classes already get built in Bonus Feats that are probably going to play in directly to their focus, and the Brawler seems like it will not have another of the Fighter's main complaints in needing to rely on others (buffs) to make them work past the early levels. Presumably some skills, too.
Really, why would you ever play a normal Fighter after that?
Because maneuvers suck at higher levels and because (some) people like the fighter.
I thought that the monk-is-fine crowd has already established front-line fighting isn't the monk's purposeI have been waiting for a fighter that uses only hands, but doesn't have the eastern bent of the monk. Look at it this way:
Brawler = boxer, mix-martial artist, etc...
Monk = karate, kung-fu, akido, etc...
They are both VERY different in their discipline and design, but achieve the same goal; a front-line fighter that uses their body as a weapon.
Who would that be... the zen archers?
Any other monk is fist to fist with an opponent. Its hard to get more front line than that.
The "not front line" argument is made in every monk thread I have seen so far. So then it is asked, well what is their purpose, and it goes downhill from there most of the time.
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The "not front line" argument is made in every monk thread I have seen so far. So then it is asked, well what is their purpose, and it goes downhill from there most of the time.
Frontline in a similar vein to a Ranger being frontline. As in, you can do it if you have to but it isn't always your best option depending on what you are fighting or your build.
Fwiw, pugilist forces, thematically, unarmed combat. They get to use weapons too, so brawler is a much better name, IMO.
I, like, commas.