Isn't Unchained supposed to be the core update we've been talking about for awhile now?
LESS TALKING!
MOAR BUILDS!
I'm trying to push people towards this thread in an effort to get them to share what they deem amazing.
I built this guy a while back for a thread I was challenged to produce a build in. The thread got locked before I could ever post it. But the build is pretty good. Primary strengths are against anyone who can be disarmed and against anything susceptible to subdual damage.
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Human (Focused Study and Heart of the Slums Alternate Racial Traits)
Rogue (Swashbuckler Archetype – Take Jutte as Martial Weapon)
Favored Class Bonus: 1/6 new Rogue Talent
Traits: Reincarnated and (Trapfinder or Resilient if Trapfinder is not allowed by GM)
HP: 60 (Average)
Saves:
FORT: 5 (6 if Resilient) REF: 11 WILL: 5 (+5 Against Fear, +2 against Death Effects)
STR: 13 [2nd Ability Point]
DEX: 15 (17 after Racial Adjustment) [1st Ability Point]
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 14
CHA: 10
(Could drop Str to 10 and raise Dex to 16 (18 w/ racial adjustment, then put both Ability Points for a 20)
Lvl / Feats / Talents:
1. Feat: Combat Expertise, Bonus Feat: Skill Focus – Acrobatics
2. Talent: Finesse Rogue
3. Feat: Acrobatic
4. Talent: Offensive Defense
5. Feat: Sap Adept
6. Talent: Weapon Training (Jutte), Talent: Survivalist
7. Feat: Sap Master
8. Talent: Combat Trick – Improved Disarm, Bonus Feat: Skill Focus – Sleight of Hand
9. Feat: Deft Hands
10. Talent: Weapon Snatcher
Skills:
1. Acrobatics: 30
2. Disable Device: 17
3. Perception: 15
4. Sense Motive: 15
5. Sleight of Hand: 29
6. Stealth: 19
7. Heal: 10
8. Bluff: 12
9. Survival: 10 (14 in Urban or Underground environments)
Disarm Bonus: 34 + Weapon Enhancement + … (anything else that increases Dex bonus, Sleight of Hand bonus, Attack bonus, or CMB)
Why 13 Strength? I don't see you picking Power Attack.
You could lower Strength and some Wisdom to get Charisma for Eldritch Heritage, considering you have skill focus. This would allow you some flexibility out of your one trick ponyness.
For example, the Verdant bloodline allows you to disarm from range 3 + Charisma times, and you can replace the usual base CMB to your Sleight of Hand bonus.
Other good bloodlines could be Umbral for stealth and utility, Rakshasa for party-face stuff and nondetection, Sylvan for a flanking buddy and invisibility, Fey for CC and invis, Div to break stuff and screw over divine casters, Bedrock to be STRONK and trip dudes,
Regardless which way you go, you probably want the Catch Off Guard feat.
Why 13 Strength? I don't see you picking Power Attack.
You could lower Strength and some Wisdom to get Charisma for Eldritch Heritage, considering you have skill focus. This would allow you some flexibility out of your one trick ponyness.
For example, the Verdant bloodline allows you to disarm from range 3 + Charisma times, and you can replace the usual base CMB to your Sleight of Hand bonus.
Other good bloodlines could be Umbral for stealth and utility, Rakshasa for party-face stuff and nondetection, Sylvan for a flanking buddy and invisibility, Fey for CC and invis, Div to break stuff and screw over divine casters, Bedrock to be STRONK and trip dudes,Regardless which way you go, you probably want the Catch Off Guard feat.
I am aware of the glories of Eldritch Heritage. This particular character was built with PFS in mind, so the build is designed to stop at 10 or 11. If I was going any further than that I would probably rebuild a handful of things. One of those things would be to pull those resources out of STR and put them straight into Cha. And yes, I would probably pick up Eldritch Heritage.
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My first post! Yay! :)
I've been giving this build about an hour's thought, so I assume there is much to improve.
The idea for this rogue is that it works even if not sneaking.
The 2 levels Barbarian make it get Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny dodge 2 levels earlier.
The companion gives alertness if adjacent and works as the flanker. Make it a tiger to pounce happily into the fray together from level 12 onward.
Arguably, this build works with Half Orcs (toothy Racial Trait), Tieflings (Maw or Claw), and probably others. However, those builds should be strength based and might need Minor Magic and the Magical Knack Trait to make Arcane Strike work.
This build would not get beyond three attacks, but all three are at maximum attack bonus, and start from level 2 onward.
Also, the rage (and claws) won't last beyond 8 rounds (assuming con 14), so bring a weapon for a day with many combats. The bite will still hit at -5.
Natural Attack Rogue
Race: Kitsune
Traits: Spirit Sense, Reactionary (or Feline Instinct, if you’re playing adopted)
Level 1: Urban Barbarian 1
Feat: Weapon Finesse
Level 2: Urban Barbarian 2
Rage Power: Lesser Beast Totem
Level 3: Urban Barbarian 2, Rogue 1
Feat: Nature Soul
Level 4: Urban Barbarian 2, Rogue 2
Talent: Combat Trick: Arcane Strike (based on Kitsune spells)
Level 5: Urban Barbarian 2, Rogue 3
Feat: Animal Ally
Companion (bodyguard archetype)
Companion Feat: Skill Focus: Perception
Companion Feat: ...
Level 6: Urban Barbarian 2, Rogue 4
Talent: Combat Trick: Improved Initiative or Surprise Attack (whatever you fancy, but initiative carries on...)
Level 7: Urban Barbarian 2, Rogue 5
Feat: Boon Companion
Companion ability: +1 int
Companion Feat: ...
Level 8: Urban Barbarian 2, Rogue 6
Talent: Combat Feat: Lookout
Companion Feat: Lookout
Level 9: Urban Barbarian 2, Rogue 7
Feat: Swift Kitsune Shapechanger
Level 10: Urban Barbarian 2, Rogue 8
Talent: ...
Companion Feat: ...
Level 11: Urban Barbarian 2, Rogue 9
Feat: ... (extra rage?)
Level 12: Urban Barbarian 2, Rogue 10
Talent: Feat: Vulpine Pounce
You can't a tiger (big cat) with the animal ally feat.
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My bad. Then take a small cat to keep on tripping opponents. Aren't they flat-footed while prone?
Also, the same build with different races might produce even more natural attacks. I just took Kitsune because it is quite 'roguey'.
But! Since weird races will always come up strong, let's see if we can make a strong core-race build ;p
No they aren't flat-footed while prone nor they lose their DEX.
But they don't provoke attacks of opportunity. So other shenanigans are certainly an option.
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Thx Tarkxt for pointing out a use I felt had to be there ;)
I've tried and tried hard to make an effective Rogue dex build, but the ninja is truly better at each and every one of them.
The only thing I could really come up with that fits its very own rogueish niche is the Half Orc thug. He's the guy that collects the money, guards the door, or lurks in the dark alley. He's simply the guy you do not want to see walking in.
Half Orc
Racial Traits: Bestial
Race Traits: Veteran of Battle, Spirit Sense
Archetypes: Thug, maybe scout
str 17
dex 12
con 12
int 12
wis 12
cha 15
Rogue 1
Feat: Intimidating Prowess
Rogue 2
Talent: Combat Trick: Weapon Focus: Falchion
Rogue 3
Feat: Dazzling Display
Rogue 4
Str 18
Talent: Power Attack
Rogue 5
Feat: Combat trick: Furious Focus
Rogue 6
Talent: Combat Trick: Cornugon Strike
Rogue 7
Feat: Extra Rogue Talent: Underhanded
(with a spring loaded wrist sheath, not a one trick pony after all, +24 dam, remember: that dagger may be thrown)
Rogue 8
Cha 16
Talent: Combat Trick: Shatter Defenses
Rogue 9
Feat: Extra Rogue Talent: Bleeding Attack
Rogue 10
Advanced Talent: Feat: Skill focus: Perception
Later options could be:
Improved Evasion
minor magic + Arcane Strike
Minor Magic + Major Magic + Dispelling Strike
Minor Magic + Major Magic + Familliar (+4 initiative) + Improved initiative + Boon Animal
Nature Soul + Animal Ally + Boon animal + Lookout + Precise Strike
Bleeding attack & underhanded could be replaced to get minor & major magic earlier
Also, Bookish Rogue looks like a very very good feat for the Minor/Major touch rogue crowd. All cantrips are in wizard spell books by default. What do you think?
Also, Bookish Rogue looks like a very very good feat for the Minor/Major touch rogue crowd. All cantrips are in wizard spell books by default. What do you think?Not really. It makes resistance less of an issue, but the touch rogue really needs at will cantrips or a wand if that's going to be his primary attack mode.
That means either dipping wizard, in which case this feat doesn't help, or putting points in UMD, in which case this feat doesn't help.
Well the touch rogues we've seen so far are all elves who take the FCB to get more touches.
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Ok so I want to dip first level for an extra feat or two. So keep in mind a Monk or fighter dip first level will do wonders for this build.
I call the build:
The Pin & Stab.
A rogue who focuses on grappling, then pinning, then getting his guaranteed sneak damage. You can make a DEX or STR version of this build. The dex build has more suitability and better iconic rogue skills while the STR build has slightly better damage and the ability to incorporate intimidation via feats, and an archetype. here goes.
Dex build. fighter 1 rogue 10
Archtypes: Knife master (for D8 Sneaks), Bandit. (to ambush and start your grapple asap.)
Human
STR 13 (+1 at lvl 8)
DEX 19 (17 +2 race) (+1 at lvl4)
CON 14
INT 10
WIZ 13 (+1 at lvl 12)
CHA 7
Traits. reactionary Slippery
feats/lvl
1. Imp. grapple, Imp unarmed strike
2. Agile maneuvers via rogue talent
3. Weapon finesse
4. Ninja trick: pressure points
5. Snapping turtle stance
6. Bleeding Attack
7. Snapping turtle clutch
8. Fast stealth
9. Greater Grapple
10. Stand Up
11. Snapping turtle shell.
So basically because of feat starvation this build is a little lacking. so lets start out monk 1 Tetori, and see what happens...
Dex build. fighter 1 rogue 10
Archtypes: Knife master (for D8 Sneaks), Bandit. (to ambush and start your grapple asap.)
Human
STR 13 (+1 at lvl 8)
DEX 19 (17 +2 race) (+1 at lvl4)
CON 14
INT 10
WIZ 13 (+1 at lvl 12)
CHA 7
Traits. reactionary Slippery
feats/lvl
1. Agile maneuvers, Imp. grapple (monk), Imp unarmed strike (monk), Weapon finnesse (human)
2.
3. Snapping turtle stance, imp init. via Combat trick
4.
5. Snapping turtle clutch, Ninja trick: pressure points
6.
7. Snapping turtle shell, Bleeding Attack
8.
9. Greater Grapple, Fast stealth
10.
11. Stand Up, Pinning Rend (this should stack with Bleeding Attack.)
Thx Tarkxt for pointing out a use I felt had to be there ;)
I've tried and tried hard to make an effective Rogue dex build, but the ninja is truly better at each and every one of them.
The only thing I could really come up with that fits its very own rogueish niche is the Half Orc thug. He's the guy that collects the money, guards the door, or lurks in the dark alley. He's simply the guy you do not want to see walking in.
Half Orc
Racial Traits: Bestial
Race Traits: Veteran of Battle, Spirit Sense
Archetypes: Thug, maybe scout
You forgot Violent Display to refresh Dazzling Display every sneak attack or critical.
In any other case, this is my build for Rogues too. I think Cornugon Strike isn't needed, and I also like the Dispelling Strike combo.
I also like to use Underhanded with the Deft Hands Rogue Talent.
people are going to hate this but here something I know.
I been Playing Dungeon and Dragons since the Rogue came out in Greyhawk back in 1975.
And there been a steady power creep in the game with each New edition of D&D/D20 system.
And this has hurt the Rogue as now there are many classes that get skills that used to be the Rogues alone..
But the Rogue still does well against a Cr Mob of the Rouge level.
So the Rogue is not underpowered.
What needs to be done is bring out the Old Nerf bat and start limiting other classes from performing the Rogues ability just as good as the Rogue does.
For example limit who gets trap sense and make sure no other class get trap sense any where near as good as the Rogue.
But that a sure way6 to make people scream.
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people are going to hate this but here something I know.
I been Playing Dungeon and Dragons since the Rogue came out in Greyhawk back in 1975.
And there been a steady power creep in the game with each New edition of D&D/D20 system.
And this has hurt the Rogue as now there are many classes that get skills that used to be the Rogues alone..
But the Rogue still does well against a Cr Mob of the Rouge level.
So the Rogue is not underpowered.
What needs to be done is bring out the Old Nerf bat and start limiting other classes from performing the Rogues ability just as good as the Rogue does.
For example limit who gets trap sense and make sure no other class get trap sense any where near as good as the Rogue.
But that a sure way6 to make people scream.
I Don't agree with nerfing classes. I just think the nich abilities we do give the rogue need to be a little more substantial. Perhaps make trapfinding "A rogue adds her level to Perception skill checks made to locate traps and to Disable Device skill checks"
The other problem I've seen personally is, not that many DM's these days use traps anymore, that just a personal perspective of course.
and making them a full BAB...
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But the Rogue still does well against a Cr Mob of the Rouge level.
So the Rogue is not underpowered.
You're in the wrong thread friend. Build your rogue and post it here. Argue about rogue power levels elsewhere. (And please use actual examples rather than "they do good" opinions.)
people are going to hate this but here something I know.
I been Playing Dungeon and Dragons since the Rogue came out in Greyhawk back in 1975.
And there been a steady power creep in the game with each New edition of D&D/D20 system.
And this has hurt the Rogue as now there are many classes that get skills that used to be the Rogues alone..
But the Rogue still does well against a Cr Mob of the Rouge level.
So the Rogue is not underpowered.
What needs to be done is bring out the Old Nerf bat and start limiting other classes from performing the Rogues ability just as good as the Rogue does.
For example limit who gets trap sense and make sure no other class get trap sense any where near as good as the Rogue.
But that a sure way6 to make people scream.
Trap sense? Really?
Do you understand how useless that ability is?
people are going to hate this but here something I know.
I been Playing Dungeon and Dragons since the Rogue came out in Greyhawk back in 1975.
And there been a steady power creep in the game with each New edition of D&D/D20 system.
And this has hurt the Rogue as now there are many classes that get skills that used to be the Rogues alone..
But the Rogue still does well against a Cr Mob of the Rouge level.
So the Rogue is not underpowered.
What needs to be done is bring out the Old Nerf bat and start limiting other classes from performing the Rogues ability just as good as the Rogue does.
For example limit who gets trap sense and make sure no other class get trap sense any where near as good as the Rogue.
But that a sure way6 to make people scream.I Don't agree with nerfing classes. I just think the nich abilities we do give the rogue need to be a little more substantial. Perhaps make trapfinding "A rogue adds her level to Perception skill checks made to locate traps and to Disable Device skill checks"
The other problem I've seen personally is, not that many DM's these days use traps anymore, that just a personal perspective of course.
and making them a full BAB...
actually what would be better is if the rogue could just get a bonus to perception checks. like +1/2 to perception. Not to find traps, but period.
This is one of the many reasons I go archeologist over rogue when I'm making the anti-trap guy.
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 10
At max with items and +1 inherent bonus to int
Str 20, Dex 20, Con 20, Int 28, Wis 16, Cha 16
Stats after extrat buffs and mutagen(dex) for range (Diminutive) [Undead anatomy III] {Diminutive skeleton}
Str 16, Dex 30, Con 20, Int 28, Wis 16*, Cha 16
*Stable mutagen vest
To hit: +15 BAB + 10 dex + 5 enh + 10 studied combat - 4 DA + 3 size = +39
Damage: +3 str + 1d2 short bow + 5 enh + 8 DA + 10 SC = 27.5
Transformation+UAIII+haste+heroism:
+45/45/40/35/30 for 1d2+32
UAIII+heroism
+41/36/31 for 1d2+28
Generalist Human investigator starting stats 20 point buy:
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 10
At max with items and +1 inherent bonus to int
Str 20, Dex 20, Con 20, Int 28, Wis 16, Cha 16
Stats after extrat buffs and mutagen for melee (Large)[Giant Form I]
Str 30, Dex 18, Con 24, Int 28*, Wis 16, Cha 16
*Stable mutagen vest
To hit with buffs: +20 BAB(transformation) + 10 str + 5 enh + 10 studied combat - 6 PA - 1 large = +38
Damage: +15 str + 2d6 spear + 5 enh + 18 PA + 10 SC = 55
So: +38/33/28/23 for 2d6+48
Giant Form I + heroism
+35/30/25 for 2d6+44
Giant Form + transformation + heroism + haste
+41/41/36/31/26 for 2d6+50
What's needed: Feats(deadly aim, power attack, and two others to make studied combat work at range), talents(Mutagen), starting 14 strength, starting 14 dex.
You don't need high dex or strength to excel in combat.
This build has 7 feats and 8 talents unfilled to do whatever you want with them.
This build ends up with 16 skill points per level, assuming favored class bonus does not go into skill points, if so then 17 per level.
This thread is for rogue builds, but I would like to see builds that could even get close to those combat numbers and skill points without even getting into what this new class can do with the unused 7 feats and 8 talents.
LESS TALKING!
MOAR BUILDS!
I'm trying to push people towards this thread in an effort to get them to share what they deem amazing.
Race: Half Orc (Sacred Tattoo, and Scavenger Alternate Racial Traits)
Class: Rogue (Skulking Slayer and Scout Archetypes)Favored Class Bonus: 1HP/Level
Traits: Reactionary, Fate's Favored, and Axe to Grind (Paranoid Drawback)
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Stats:
STR: 16 (18 After Racial Adjustment)
DEX: 14
CON: 13 [1st Ability Point]
INT: 10
WIS: 12
CHA: 10
Level/Feat/Talent:
1. Feat: Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Tetsubo
2. Talent: Combat Trick - Improved Initiative
3. Feat: Sap Adept
4. Talent: Resiliency
5. Feat: Sap Master
6. Talent: Offensive Defense
7. Feat: Iron Hide
8. Talent: Weapon Training - Tetsubo
9. Feat: Dodge
10. Talent: Feat - Mobility
11. Feat: Toughness or Improved Natural Armor
12. Talent: Crippling Strike
Items: +x Merciful Tetsubo, Boots of Speed, Vest of the Cockroach, etc…
Tactics: Charge often. Charge into positions where you are Flanking or within a 5’ step of Flanking. Every time you charge you get SA using d8s, if you are using Merciful you double the number of SA dice and add twice the number of dice to base damage. If you turn Merciful off you are still doing good lethal damage too. Every time you gain SA you add the number of dice you rolled to your AC via Offensive Defense, unless you use another SA mod talent like Crippling Strike. Eventually you also have Dodge, Mobility, and Iron Hide to help bolster your lower AC. And you will have Resiliency to give you a reserve if you get dropped to 0 or lower.
Alternately, with this build you could take 4 levels as a Two-handed Fighter to gain extra Feats, BAB, Fort Save, and the Overhand Chop ability to add x2 STR bonus to damage when you make a single attack, including on a Charge. With the last four levels traded for Fighter it could go something like this:
Level/Feat/Talent:
1. Feat: Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Tetsubo
2. Talent: Combat Trick - Improved Initiative
3. Feat: Sap Adept
4. Talent: Resiliency
5. Feat: Sap Master
6. Talent: Offensive Defense
7. Feat: Iron Hide
8. Talent: Weapon Training - Tetsubo
9. Feat: Dodge / Feat: Mobility
10. Feat: Power Attack
11. Feat: Furious Focus
12. Feat: Weapon Specialization - Tetsubo
Race: Human (Heart of the Wilderness Alternate Racial Trait)
Class: Rogue (Scout and Swashbuckler Archetypes – Scimitar proficiency)
Favored Class Bonus: 1/6 new talent
Traits: Trapfinder, Killer, Flame of the Dawnflower (Drawback: Pride)
STR: 10
DEX: 17 (19 after Racial Adjustment)[1st Ability Point]
CON: 16
INT: 10
WIS: 12
CHA: 10
Level/Feat/Talent:
1. Feat: Weapon Finesse / Bonus Feat: Dervish Dance
2. Talent: Combat Trick – Dodge
3. Feat: Mobility
4. Talent: Combat Trick – Spring Attack
5. Feat: Shadow Strike
6. Talent: Offensive Defense / Bonus Talent: Weapon Training - Scimitar
Items: +1 Keen Scimitar, Belt +2 Dex, Handy Haversack, Cloak of Resistance +1, normal leather armor
Initiative: +8
Attack bonus: +12
Damage: 1d6+7 (crit: 15-20/x2 + 4 Triat Bonuses)(SA: 3d6)
AC: 19 (+3 when using Offensive Defense)(+4 when moving in and out of threatened squares)
Skills: I can max out 8 skills without needing extra points in Int.
HP: Average of 52 or so.
Battlefield Mobility: Excellent, with options between Scout's Charge and Spring Attack supported by Offesnive Defense and Mobility.
Race: Aasimar
Class: Rogue (Swashbuckler {Martial Weapon Proficiency – Scimitar} / Scout Archetypes)
Favored Cass Bonus: 1 HP / lvl
Traits: Unscathed / Sacred Touch (or Killer) / Flame of the Dawnflower (Drawback – Pride or Meticulous)
Consider trading one of these traits for Reactionary.
STR: 11
DEX: 18 [2nd and 3rd Ability points]
CON: 14 [4th and 5th Ability points]
INT: 12
WIS: 12 (14 after Racial Adjustment)
CHA: 13 (15 after Racial Adjustment) [1st Ability point]
Level / Feats / Talents:
1. Feat: Angelic Blood
2. Talent: Weapon Training - Scimitar
3. Feat: Angelic Wings
4. Talent: Finesse Rogue
5. Feat: Angelic Flesh - Steel
6. Talent: Combat Trick – Dervish Dance
7. Feat: Metallic Wings
8. Talent: Combat Trick - Dodge
9. Feat: Combat Expertise
10. Talent: Opportunist
11. Feat: Gang Up
12. Talent: Unwitting Ally
13. Feat: Mobility
14. Talent: Open
15. Feat: Point Blank Shot
16. Talent: Offensive Defense
17. Feat: Precise Shot
18. Talent: Open
19. Feat: Flyby Attack
20. Talent: Open
Also consider Improved Natural Armor, Improved Natural Attack, and Heavenly Radiance (Searing Light, Wandering Star Motes, and Sunbeam) in place of Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Flyby Attack.
Items: Boots of Speed, Menacing Weapon, and a good bow.
Tactics at lvl 12 will be: Flank, Flank, Flank! If you have plenty of other melee guys in the mix to aid in flanking and with the Gang Up feat and the Unwitting Ally Rogue Talent it shouldn’t be that hard to get into some good positions. You also have the Opportunist Rogue Talent so once per round when an ally strikes your target you may make an AoO against that target. Your attack progression at lvl 12 will look something like this when you turn on your Boots of Speed against a Flanked opponent: 20/20/14/14/14 (Plus another 20 when they are attacked by your ally or try to move out of their flanked position). This is counting your +5 from Dex, +1 from Boots of Speed, Weapon Focus for Scimitar attacks, +2 from Flanking, and +2 for menacing weapon. This is not taking into consideration Weapon Enhancement Bonus or Dex buffing items. For a backup tactic or in emergencies fly up and start flying around 10 feet and firing off a shot. Your Scout ability will kick in and you can get Sneak Attack on your shot. Additionally, with the Sacred Touch trait and wings, you may literally be a life saver in your party.
The Drow Operative
Race: Drow
Class: 10 levels Rogue (Knife Master & Bandit Archetypes) / 10 levels Fighter (Two-Weapon Warrior Archetype)
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STR: 14
DEX: 16 (18 after racial adjustment) [1st and 2nd Ability Score increase]
CON: 12 (10 after racial adjustment)
INT: 10
WIS: 12
CHA: 11 (13 after racial adjustment) [3rd, 4th, and 5th Ability Score Increase]
Traits: River Rat / Axe to Grind
Level / Feats / Tricks:
1. Feat: Skill Focus (Stealth)
2. Talent: Rogue Talent - Finesse Rogue
3. Feat: Drow Nobility
4. Talent: Offensive Defense
5. Feat: Improved Drow Nobility
6. Talent: Weapon Training - Dagger
7. Feat: Blind Fight
8. Talent: Combat Trick - Improved Blind Fight
9. Feat: Greater Drow Nobility
10. Talent: Feat - Greater Blind Fight
11. Feat: Shadow Strike // Bonus Feat: TWF
12. Bonus Feat: ITWF
13. Feat: Combat Expertise
14. Bonus Feat: Two-Weapon Rend
15. Feat: GTWF
16. Bonus Feat: Improved Critical (Or Weapon Specialization if daggers are Keen)
17. Feat: Critical Focus
18. Bonus Feat: Staggering Critical
19. Feat: Dastardly Finish
20. Bonus Feat: Stunning Critical
The Guild Assassin (Not just trained as an Assassin, bred for it)
Race: Fetchling (Gloom Shimmer and Subtle Manipulator Alternate Racial Traits)
Class: Rogue (Knife Master)
.
STR: 10
DEX: 16 (18 after racial adjustment) [1st and 2nd Ability Score increase]
CON: 12
INT: 13
WIS: 12 (10 after racial adjustment)
CHA: 13 (15 after racial adjustment) [3rd, 4th, and 5th Ability Score increases]
Traits: Trapfinding / River Rat
Level / Feats / Tricks:
1. Feat: Skill Focus (Disguise)
2. Talent: Finesse Rogue
3. Feat: Eldritch Heritage (Rakshasa - Silver Tongue)
4. Talent: Weapon Training - Dagger
5. Feat: Blind Fight
6. Talent: Terrain Mastery - Urban
7. Feat: Combat Expertise
8. Talent: Combat Trick - Improved Feint
9. Feat: Moonlight Stalker
10. Talent: Terrain Mastery - Underground
11. Feat: Improved Eldritch Heritage (Rakshasa - Mind Reader)
12. Talent: HiPS - Urban
13. Feat: Improved Eldritch Heritage (Rakshasa - Hide Aura)
14. Talent: HiPS Underground
15. Feat: Moonlight Stalker Feint
16. Talent: Feat - Greater Feint
17. Feat: Greater Eldritch Heritage (Rakshasa - Alter Self)
18. Talent: Unwitting Ally
19. Feat: Moonlight Stalker Master
20. Talent: Opportunist
I hastily converted this from a Ninja build so, ALL of the talents are debatable.
The problem with some of Shadowlord's builds is that they are better done as Slayers.
Also, another nice build is going Pirate/Scout since you can charge in any way, get Sneak Attack from the charge, and then reposition yourself out of your enemies' range.
Going Pummeling Strike and using a Cestus allows you to full attack while doing so, for crazy critz.
Plus you get a sweet bonus to mind affecting and fear saves.
Also, have I mentioned how AWESOME is the Eldritch Raider (Gillmen archetype) combined with Counterfeit Mage?
Also, have I mentioned how AWESOME is the Eldritch Raider (Gillmen archetype) combined with Counterfeit Mage?
well the gillman FCB seems nice for it, since the AT eats a rogue talent
you could also go half elf (with racial heritage: gillman via the human subtype) to take the AT AND have access to the elf FCB to buff your minor/major magic talent uses (via the elf subtype). you can also get some neat SLAs from drow magic alt. racial ability.
though for that option you'd be in hell for the first 2 levels though, since you'd be stuck without a feat at 1 (from RH) and without a rogue talent at 2 (from the rogue AT), and then no rogue talent at 4th from counterfeit mage.
Don't see a reason why not stay straight GIllmen, really. Enchantment resistance and water-breathing is fun and sometimes campaign breaking.
You could go full Dex + Int, with some Con, perhaps get some Cha for Eldritch Heritage for flavor and fun.
well the whole water dependant thing would be kind of a downer for a class that doesn't get create water infinitely all day.
well the whole water dependant thing would be kind of a downer for a class that doesn't get create water infinitely all day.
You just need to submerge in water once a day. There are many extremely easy ways to achieve this.
not in all games (see: anything at all set in osirion or similarly arid, such as those plateau'd badlands in mwangi, the abyss via WotR, etc.), and certainly not at low levels unless you've got a cleric or similar in the party.
once you can buy a decanter of endless water you're golden though.
The problem with some of Shadowlord's builds is that they are better done as Slayers.
Which ones?
Metallic Wings also requires 11th lvl. The build assumed "retraining" but if you didn't want to do that it's an easy fix:
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Level / Feats / Talents:
1. Feat: Angelic Blood
2. Talent: Weapon Training - Scimitar
3. Feat: Combat Expertise
4. Talent: Finesse Rogue
5. Feat: Angelic Flesh - Steel
6. Talent: Combat Trick – Dervish Dance
7. Feat: Gang Up
8. Talent: Combat Trick - Dodge
9. Feat: Extra Rogue Talent: Opportunist
10. Talent: Feat: Angelic Wings
11. Feat: Metallic Wings
12. Talent: Unwitting Ally
wait, you dont come online for dex until 6th?
doesnt that make your early career pure liquid suffering?
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on topic, i'm considering just using a swashbuckler dip to grab slashing grace (sawtooth saber) at 1st level, then going the TWF/feint route in rogue.
wait, you dont come online for dex until 6th?
doesnt that make your early career pure liquid suffering?
As I said before, the build was put together for another forum. It was created to start play at lvl 12. If I was to play if from lvl 1 I would just switch Finesse Rogue and Weapon Training. So, Dex to attack at lvl 2, which is really the important part, and Dex to Damage at lvl 6.
Level / Feats / Talents:
1. Feat: Angelic Blood
2. Talent: Finesse Rogue
3. Feat: Combat Expertise
4. Talent: Weapon Training - Scimitar
5. Feat: Angelic Flesh - Steel
6. Talent: Combat Trick – Dervish Dance
7. Feat: Gang Up
8. Talent: Combat Trick - Dodge
9. Feat: Extra Rogue Talent: Opportunist
10. Talent: Feat: Angelic Wings
11. Feat: Metallic Wings
12. Talent: Unwitting Ally
is wayfinder mag official paizo stuff?
No
how to make the rogue class can work?
why do you think it is broken?
The problem is the players who want a class for dpr... Stop yieling for the classes and learn how to play a ROLE Game!!
for a game with DPR beter a Videogame or something alike!!how to make the classes works?
its an easy work at all!! you only have to fix the experience charts like before, in the old AD&D2E days (a good party was a 5th lvl Fighter a 7th lvl Cleric, a 3rd lvl Wizard and a 9th lvl Thief, and all of that was balanced at all).
1st ed is not pathfinder.
We work with the mechanics given us not the mechanics we want. If mechanics bother you discard them and let others be.
so a month later i must apologize for necroing this topic; however, I think it's better to bring this back (which arguing aside does have several builds and useful advice and gear for the aspiring rogue) than to start Yet Another Rogue Thread to devolve into the usual fustercluck that surrounds the class--which i have been known to contribute to.
I'm attempting to make a decent dex-rogue focusing around knife master+bandit with a dagger in a spring-loaded wrist sheath and the underhanded talent.
the main tenets i'm trying to stick to are:
-no multiclassing (though if a 1-level dip is REALLY good i might be convinced--i've considered diviner wizard 1 or swashbuckler 1 but haven't settled on them)
-absolutely nothing that imposes any kind of attack penalty whatsoever. the rogue simply cannot afford to lose any accuracy with so low a BAB and no class-boosters to aid it.
so far i've got:
stats
str 10, dex 16 (5+2r), con 14 (5), int 10, wis 10, cha 16 (10)
traits - river rat / veteran of battle (gorum)
talents
2 - underhanded
4 - minor magic (light)
6 - surprise attack, fast stealth
8 - ???
10 - ???
12 - ???, ???
14 - ???
16 - ???
18 - ???, ???
20 - ???
feats
1 - weapon finesse, skill focus (stealth)
3 - steadfast personality
5 - arcane strike
7 - hellcat stealth
8 - skill focus (UMD)
9 - lunge
11 - ???
13 - ???
15 - ???
16 - skill focus (perception)
17 - ???
19 - ???
20 - ???
at 5th level in the surprise round he can draw his dagger (free with trait), close distance (move), activate arcane strike (swift), and attempt to stab the flat-footed opponent for maximum SA damage (underhanded+surprise attack). with an agile dagger that'd come to ~32 damage(1d4+3dex+1trait+2AS+24SA) on their first turn.
the problem is what to do after the surprise round, and finding some way to bypass concealment (the heartseeker weapon enchant helps, but between that and agile his wallet will be hurting). at 7th he can use the light MM to abuse hellcat stealth's HiPS as well, but leaving stealth only gives you a single SA...
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So, I thought I would contribute:
Racial Heritage(Ogre), and this feat:
You are able to land critical hits precisely, dealing devastating damage.
Prerequisites: Str 19, ogre, sneak attack +2d6.
Benefit: When you hit a creature using the Vital Strike feat or confirm a critical hit against an opponent, add your sneak attack damage to the damage from the attack. This feat has no effect on attacks that already allow you to add sneak attack damage.
Strength Rogues are pretty much fine already.