WalterGM RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8 |
How about if they put a capstone on the seemingly infinite number of Tiefling/Aasimar/Tengu. Like "After 4/14/2014 new Aasimars, Tieflings, and Tengus cannot be made. Preexisting Aasimar, Tiefling, and Tengu characters before this date are still playable until retired. They will be replaced with [X], [Y], [Z]"
I think the opening of Aasimars and Tieflings drastically ramped up the powercreep in PFS. I won't debate if they are or aren't more mechanically powerful than other races, but I will say that one has daylight as a SLA and that alone changes the game dynamic. Especially in Season 1-2, where darkness seems to be the "go to" hazard for a lot of low level games.
Also, given that both races have splat books that give enough options to effectively make a game where they are the only two races and still have tons of variation. With those books, that gives players what, like 20 race choices total at creation? That seems like a lot to me. So because of this, I'm super tentative in general about adding more races to the race pile.
That said, Tactical's suggestion here is the first one I've read that adds races and that I wouldn't be opposed to by default. Rotating them every Season or two would allow for the influx of seasonal races, which could have some interesting possibilities. Especially if we see seasons that take place on other planes, underwater, etc.
For the census: I am 24.
Saint Caleth |
Tactical Monkey wrote:How about if they put a capstone on the seemingly infinite number of Tiefling/Aasimar/Tengu. Like "After 4/14/2014 new Aasimars, Tieflings, and Tengus cannot be made. Preexisting Aasimar, Tiefling, and Tengu characters before this date are still playable until retired. The new unrestricted races are [X], [Y], [Z]."Its kind of unfair to new players com]ming in who may want to make a tengu.
But great for anyone who wants to play X, Y or Z.
WalterGM RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8 |
Tactical Monkey wrote:How about if they put a capstone on the seemingly infinite number of Tiefling/Aasimar/Tengu. Like "After 4/14/2014 new Aasimars, Tieflings, and Tengus cannot be made. Preexisting Aasimar, Tiefling, and Tengu characters before this date are still playable until retired. The new unrestricted races are [X], [Y], [Z]."Its kind of unfair to new players com]ming in who may want to make a tengu.
It would be, yes. But that said, so is restricting a race like Kitsune to boon-only. I know of a couple people in my area that would like to play one but can't. It is kind of unfair to prevent them from getting to play that race, isn't it?
I think we'd agree that everything can't be permitted; a balance must be maintained. And leaving exotic races as big shiny targets for boons, chronicles, or charity auctions serves to draw attention to those events and cultivate a greater interest in PFS overall. Which helps the campaign more than it hurts it, IMO.
So yea, it would suck if you wanted to make a tengu but they got removed. But it would also suck if you wanted to play a synthesist, holy gun, or catfolk.
Tactical Monkey |
Its kind of unfair to new players com]ming in who may want to make a tengu.
Very true. Sad it is that it is truly please all of the audience is truly impossible. People were in uproar against seeing so many of the Aa.Ti.Te being introduced instead of the iconic core races. If my suggestion was done it would be split ends with the loyal fans who enjoy Aa.Ti.Te and like you said "be unfair to new players". If another new race is added it causes split ends with the people who went to convention/boon traded for their race only for it to become unrestricted just like how people were very annoyed that Aasimars went from Restricted to Unrestricted.
-TLDR-
Paizo is in a real pickle when its comes to PFS and the Restricted Races.
Jiggy RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
Chris Mortika RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 |
Its kind of unfair to new players coming in who may want to make a tengu.
I can sort of see that, but if tengu are replaced with, say, ratfolk, then isn't it just as unfair to someone who wants to play a ratfolk now?
Retiring anything from an organized play environment is potentially disappointing to players who come in after the fact. I hope that disappointment doesn't translate into a sense of injustice.
I'm in favor of cycling non-core elements like races out, to keep the campaign both fresh (new things to play with) and manageable (not too many things).
Age: 51.
Doug Miles |
Remove tielfling and aasimar from the legal-for-play list and add in the elemental races. Of course, I would expect existing tiefling and aasimar PCs to be grandfathered in, and for there to be an "end date" where people could get a game in with a newly-built tiefling or aasimar so that they WERE grandfathered in.
This is agreeable. 40.
Saint Caleth |
I think we'd agree that everything can't be permitted; a balance must be maintained. And leaving exotic races as big shiny targets for boons, chronicles, or charity auctions serves to draw attention to those events and cultivate a greater interest in PFS overall. Which helps the campaign more than it hurts it, IMO.
The vital part of the restrictive side of that balance is considering not just the number of options open only by boon verses those available freely but also the penetration of those boons. I used to be that all non-standard races were locked behind boons and that the distribution of boons was highly uneven, hardly relevant outside of big cons in the USA. Now, the penetration of boons into the community has been improved immeasurably so the balance is better going into season 5.
I just wanted to take this opportunity to beat the drum of cons and big events not being the be-all-and-end-all of PFS play. The advantages of organized play in terms of modularity and portability make it perfect to help grow the hobby into new communities and not just shore up Paizo's market share at big name cons.
John Compton Developer |
Tactical Monkey wrote:How about if they put a capstone on the seemingly infinite number of Tiefling/Aasimar/Tengu. Like "After 4/14/2014 new Aasimars, Tieflings, and Tengus cannot be made. Preexisting Aasimar, Tiefling, and Tengu characters before this date are still playable until retired. The new unrestricted races are [X], [Y], [Z]."Its kind of unfair to new players com]ming in who may want to make a tengu.
I acknowledge the matter of fairness, but I'm also wont to explore another viewpoint.
If we were to use the the example's date, that would mean these races were available for anyone and everyone for close to two years. They had a fair run, and now the campaign is exploring other ways of opening up options to players (such as several scenario-related boons published over the past five months).
Of course, at least one person has referenced marketing interests, so I'll hypothetically explore another line of reasoning: wouldn't the aforementioned proposal(s) to remove one or more races from the always available list mean the "fairest" thing to do for a prospective player would be to introduce him or her to game sooner rather than later?
Saint Caleth |
I think we'd agree that everything can't be permitted; a balance must be maintained. And leaving exotic races as big shiny targets for boons, chronicles, or charity auctions serves to draw attention to those events and cultivate a greater interest in PFS overall. Which helps the campaign more than it hurts it, IMO.
The vital part of the restrictive side of that balance is considering not just the number of options open only by boon verses those available freely but also the penetration of those boons. I used to be that all non-standard races were locked behind boons and that the distribution of boons was highly uneven, hardly relevant outside of big cons in the USA. Now, the penetration of boons into the community has been improved immeasurably so the balance is better going into season 5.
I just wanted to take this opportunity to beat the drum of cons and big events not being the be-all-and-end-all of PFS play. The advantages of organized play in terms of modularity and portability make it perfect to help grow the hobby into new communities and not just shore up Paizo's market share at big name cons. I would also like to thank the leadership for their efforts lately to do just this by appointing so many international venture officers and being so generous with the boon support for relatively small events in places with marginal gaming opportunities.
The Morphling |
It'd be interesting to allow the four elemental races on a seasonal basis. Ifrits can only be made in the summer, sylphs can only be made in the winter. Boons let you make one at any time.
Etc.
Meanwhile... *waves giant pile of Tiefling characters around happily* I love my planetouched and I wouldn't enjoy PFS nearly as much without the racial freedom they offer.
Saint Caleth |
Of course, at least one person has referenced marketing interests, so I'll hypothetically explore another line of reasoning: wouldn't the aforementioned proposal(s) to remove one or more races from the always available list mean the "fairest" thing to do for a prospective player would be to introduce him or her to game sooner rather than later?
I think that a more compelling marketing argument could be made for rotating races based on what races have newly released splatbooks. That potentially increases interest both in the book and in the race and in accord with the bottom line it puts butts in seats with more Additional Resources purchased.
BigNorseWolf |
It would be, yes. But that said, so is restricting a race like Kitsune to boon-only. I know of a couple people in my area that would like to play one but can't. It is kind of unfair to prevent them from getting to play that race, isn't it?
It is, and I've argued as much before. I simply don't see that as a good reason to expand the unfairness.
I also don't want to run first steps 10 more times making 3 tengus 3 tieflings and 3 aasimar... just in case :)
I think we'd agree that everything can't be permitted; a balance must be maintained.
If a race is too strong mechanics wise I would agree. If the balance has to be hedgehog supremacy I do not.
And leaving exotic races as big shiny targets for boons, chronicles, or charity auctions serves to draw attention to those events and cultivate a greater interest in PFS overall. Which helps the campaign more than it hurts it, IMO.
I don't like someone's character choices being limited by their ability to attend conventions.
So yea, it would suck if you wanted to make a tengu but they got removed. But it would also suck if you wanted to play a synthesist, holy gun, or catfolk.
Sythesists got removed for a good reason: unbalancing to game play. If a race does that its a good reason not to allow it.
Arassuil |
Personally, I don't feel one way or another about this. In other words, it would not bother me if more exotic races were allowed, nor would it bother me if they were still boon only.
Exotic races are cool, but I still find myself making a lot of characters with core races. I have 2 Tieflings already played, and an Aasimar character lined up. Whereas I have made (and played) 2 Humans, and have a Half-Elf, Halfling, and Half-Orc character in the works (but not played, and in some cases, not statted up).
Although, and I don't know if it's been suggested yet, but why not open up a new boon, say one per PFS number, of said race instead of just opening up the race as a whole? Would that be a good middle-ground (even if it meant a little more work for the PFS team)? Just a thought.
For Jiggy's info: I'm 35. Now, get to work on the math ;)
Fahim Demir |
I think it would be fun to mix it up. Every season, close the old non-core races and open up three new one, maybe one monstrous-ish, one elemental, and one season-specific race.
Aasimar and tiefling make sense this season, but swapping catfolk for tengu wouldn't change anything. (Side note to an earlier comment: I've seen a couple of people playing tengu, locally, and almost no one playing tieflings. Lots of aasimar, though.
Next season, is the main action were set in Osirion, we could drop all three and allow skinwalkers (demi), ifrits (elemental) and suli (season-specific).
If we go back to Tien-Xia in a couple years, it could be grippli, oread, and kitsune.
I think that would let people playing new races feel connected to the plot, not just the numbers.
For Jiggy: 38.
BigNorseWolf |
If we were to use the the example's date, that would mean these races were available for anyone and everyone for close to two years. They had a fair run, and now the campaign is exploring other ways of opening up options to players (such as several scenario-related boons published over the past five months)
It would be they were available to everyone and anyone who'd heard of/was playing pathfinder society, which isn't necessarily everyone and anyone.
It would depend on what you replaced the open access with.
A scenario or series "wings over absolom" or the like getting you a tengu boon or "Descent into zarta's basement" opening up the tiefling boon would be ok.
Despite having just finagled my way to a kitsune boon, I don't like the convention= boons system. You're kind of at the mercy of geography, time, and economics there.
wouldn't the aforementioned proposal(s) to remove one or more races from the always available list mean the "fairest" thing to do for a prospective player would be to introduce him or her to game sooner rather than later?
Well, I haven't met them yet. (i don't think...)
Patrick Harris @ MU |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I like the idea of rotating exotic races through. If you were to disallow new Tengu, Tiefling, and Aasimar, but allow the elementals, that gives everyone a chance to mess around. Then in a year, no new elemental races, but now we're good with ... I dunno, Fetchlings and Wayang. Then the year after that we get rid of the shadow races but we allow in Kitsune, Nagaji, and Samsaran for a year.
Then you can work with the development staff to make sure you're highlighting races that will compliment what books are being sold, thus increasing the marketing function of PFS.
Plus, that means that GM boons don't become permanently useless when a race opens up--if I have an elemental boon in my pocket and everyone's starting a new elemental right now, I can save it until later when everyone's elementals are either dead or retired, and it's special again.
Lastly, before anyone asks, the way the rules would be written are pretty simple: "Tiefling, Tengu, and Aasimar characters are only legal if (1) there is a Boon specifically allowing them or (2) the first Chronicle assigned to the character is dated between [start] and [end]."
Matthew Morris RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Thank you again everyone for keeping the conversation civil.
I've seen a couple Tengu, but the power builds of choice usually go to Aasimar.
I'm still hoping to play a kayal shadow dancer someday.
For Jiggy, 41, 42 soon.
Edit: Just saw this
Lastly, before anyone asks, the way the rules would be written are pretty simple: "Tiefling, Tengu, and Aasimar characters are only legal if (1) there is a Boon specifically allowing them or (2) the first Chronicle assigned to the character is dated between [start] and [end]."
This might also have the benefit of getting people to GM, just to get someone in under the wire.
Saint Caleth |
Not everyone can make it to Gen/Comi/WhateverCon. Hell, in my region the only boons we see are the holiday boons. Us foreigners could use some love, yo.
I suggest trying your luck in the boon trading thread. You are probably less likely now than at the beginning of the thread to get a race boon if you have nothing to offer in trade, but in general I think that the community has done a pretty good job of trying to fix the uneven distribution of boons.
Bigrin da Troll |
I'd like to see all non-Core Rulebook races restricted to boon-only status (existing characters to be grandfathered), but at the same time increase the availability of those boons. I'm thinking something like 'One free race boon chronicle per GM star'.
Mind you, the idea mentioned upthread of having rotating, year-by-year freely available races based on the year's theme is also very appealing. My city (Calgary) has a LOT of Aasimar & Tieflings, no Tengu, and as far as I can tell, not a single race boon.
.
For Jiggy: 41
Benn Roe |
Whereas it's undeniable that aasimar and tieflings are above the curve for racial power level, they're really just not a big deal, and in no way overpowered. Energy resistance 5 is great for a few levels, but is mostly irrelevant after that (and frankly I'll take anything that makes lower level characters more survivable). And sure daylight is really good at dealing with a certain sort of obstacle, but so is having +4 to AC against giants, or being immune to sleep effects, or getting an entire extra feat at 1st level. And to be fair, many aasimars (most I'd tentatively argue) don't have daylight, since they're trading it out for some other spell-like ability.
Ultimately, humans are still usually better. Aasimar and tiefling popularity is high, but I'd still say more than one or two at a table is rare, and humans dramatically outnumber them. People are always going to play less powerful races either because they make better sense for their build, or because they make better sense for their concept. I'm just a few tables away from getting my 4th GM star, and I've never had the fact that someone was an aasimar or tiefling ever break a game (or even really matter much).
redward |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think you'd run into some pretty severe backlash if you tried to take races out. Not that it can't be weathered, but it could get ugly.
And you'd probably see a rush of people getting 1xp on characters made with expiring races to get them grandfathered and saved for future builds. Not necessarily a bad thing, but I would expect to see a lot of this and any other workarounds as people prepare to "game" the system.
---
I do like the idea of community-wide race boons capped by season. With the release of each season, there is a set of exotic races from which you can choose to make one character. And that set changes each year. Not sure off the top of my head how (other than the honor system) you'd enforce that.
That would limit the influx of exotic races to 1/player/year while allowing those who can't/don't attend cons the opportunity to make one. And you could still have the normal boons at cons to allow people the chance to make more.
You could even increase the cap of characters/year by GM star if you wanted to reward/encourage more GMs.
(and I'm 35)
Patrick Harris @ MU |
I think you'd run into some pretty severe backlash if you tried to take races out. Not that it can't be weathered, but it could get ugly.
Haters gonna hate.
And you'd probably see a rush of people getting 1xp on characters made with expiring races to get them grandfathered and saved for future builds. Not necessarily a bad thing, but I would expect to see a lot of this and any other workarounds as people prepare to "game" the system.
Cheaters gonna cheat.
I do like the idea of community-wide race boons capped by season. With the release of each season, there is a set of exotic races from which you can choose to make one character. And that set changes each year. Not sure off the top of my head how (other than the honor system) you'd enforce that.
I would also be okay with this, as long as it's "one living character at a time," not "one ever." Because if I sat down to play my Catfolk Barbarian or whatever and he died during the first session, and then I was just out of luck forever, that would suuuuuuck.
WalterGM RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8 |
Quote:And leaving exotic races as big shiny targets for boons, chronicles, or charity auctions serves to draw attention to those events and cultivate a greater interest in PFS overall. Which helps the campaign more than it hurts it, IMO.I don't like someone's character choices being limited by their ability to attend conventions.
Just wanted to say I agree with this. However, at present, race boons are still the big shiny thing people seem to want the most. And because of that, Paizo has been leveraging them to their advantage.
I'd love something else to offer at large conventions, or to give to my GMs as rewards, unfortunately, there isn't anything else at the moment.
Regarding your other points, I see where you're coming from but have different perspectives, which I think is great. Collaboration of good intentions where people suggest different solutions is where a lot of problems get solved.
BigNorseWolf |
And you'd probably see a rush of people getting 1xp on characters made with expiring races to get them grandfathered and saved for future builds. Not necessarily a bad thing, but I would expect to see a lot of this and any other workarounds as people prepare to "game" the system.
Cheaters gonna cheat.
Its not cheating its gaming the system.
Which is what you expect with.. well. gamers.
Patrick Harris @ MU |
Patrick Harris wrote:And you'd probably see a rush of people getting 1xp on characters made with expiring races to get them grandfathered and saved for future builds. Not necessarily a bad thing, but I would expect to see a lot of this and any other workarounds as people prepare to "game" the system.
Cheaters gonna cheat.
Its not cheating its gaming the system.
Which is what you expect with.. well. gamers.
Gamers gonna game?
Akerlof |
I second the vote to give VCs boons to hand out outside of conventions: It gives more people a chance to play fancy things while keeping said things special. Also, wasn't the campaign management going to start sending out boons to random tables? That would work, too.
Personally, I'm not really keen on adding more non-boon races, but not really opposed to the idea either. I don't think it's necessary but don't think it would hurt much, either.
Jiggy: I wonder if you're looking at the wrong variable. I might guess that the attitude people take on opening up races depends more on what PFS is for them: Do they treat PFS as a campaign in which their characters are primarily members of the Pathfinder Society? Or do they consider PFS a chance to play Pathfinder, with the Pathfinder Society providing a convenient plot hook, the organized play version of "You meet in a bar..." Alternatively, is PFS their primary outlet for Pathfinder, or do they play PFS as well as home games? My guess is that people who only play PFS, and/or who just consider PFS a chance to play will be more open to adding more races. Those who have outside options, or who take the metagame of the campaign seriously will be more resistant.
Blah blah blah what I'm saying is this: If PFS is a marketing tool, let's market the sucker. Give players all the options so they have reason to buy all the books. They take those books to their home game and maybe GMs let them use them. Maybe those GMs buy the same books (if they're the buyin' type) so they can all be on the same page. If not, maybe those same GMs would buy third...
It depends partly on what Paizo wants PFS to be: Do they want PFS to be a gateway drug to playing home games or do they see PFS as an end in its own? I don't think Paizo intends PFS to be the primary method of consuming Pathfinder for most of their customers, I think they want players to "grow out" of PFS and start playing home games. Restricting content is a good way to encourage this.
Another possibility is that marketing is about controlling the image of a product. Marketing isn't sales, marketing is getting people to want to _use_ your product, it's trying to define how people _see_ your product. A great way to get people to want more is to hold some back, ask any woman who owns a little black dress. PFS might be Paizo's way of saying "Isn't this cool? Now, why don't you go buy an adventure path and take it home with your friends to see everything that's out there."
You also have to acknowledge that you can't please everybody. And trying to do so can end up alienating your customers or losing that special something about your brand. (See: Metallica) Sticking with your vision might not be the best way to grow, but it's certainly a viable goal for marketing, especially when you're focusing on responding to your customers while staying true to your original vision. I.e. keeping Golarion human centric while allowing a few forays into the weirder races.
Those are just a few of the reasons I could think of for not offering access to everything in your marketing flagship.
Jiggy RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
Jiggy: I wonder if you're looking at the wrong variable. I might guess that the attitude people take on opening up races depends more on what PFS is for them: Do they treat PFS as a campaign in which their characters are primarily members of the Pathfinder Society? Or do they consider PFS a chance to play Pathfinder, with the Pathfinder Society providing a convenient plot hook, the organized play version of "You meet in a bar..." Alternatively, is PFS their primary outlet for Pathfinder, or do they play PFS as well as home games? My guess is that people who only play PFS, and/or who just consider PFS a chance to play will be more open to adding more races. Those who have outside options, or who take the metagame of the campaign seriously will be more resistant.
The only way to know whether age is a meaningful detail is to collect the data. Your idea is intriguing as well, as would be cross-referencing that with the age data. :)
Iammars |
+1 for leaving tiefling and aasimar legal.
I know Golarion is a humanocentric world. However, I like the idea that aasimars and tieflings are more popular in Pathfinder Society than the rest of the world. From the Blood of Angels book, aasimars are frequently the targets of racism because people put them on a pedestal and expect them to be miracle workers sent from the outer planes, when most of them are just normal people. My impression of the Pathfinder Society sees an aasimar and goes "Great. You have angelic heritage. What do you do?" I'm extrapolating for Tieflings since I don't own Blood of Fiends, but I think they go through similar discrimination.
As for Tengu, that -2 CON hurts a lot. I have seen a bunch of tengu (Benn, you really haven't seen any? I can think of 2 off the top of my head, although 1 of them is a shadow now.) but I'm ambivalent about them staying as a playable race.
As for the elemental races, I would like to see them stay boon only for a while after they all go out (say, about a year or so) if you are going to open them up wildly. However, I agree that it's probably not a good idea to open them up wildly.
I honestly think that the boon system is working overall, especially now that online conventions are making boons available to the general public. Race boons as GM boons are a wonderful incentive to get people to GM, and I would like to see that stay.
(I'm 22.)
Curaigh |
I like restricting the playable races.
I like rotating which races are 'always available.'
I like the civility has been maintained in this thread. :)
In my home games I have a rule of no back-to-back characters can be of the same race (or class) because I want my players to step out of their mold/rut. This is a little harder when you have three four five+ current characters.
Other ways I might limit exotics (though these are just ideas, the above is preferred):
You may only have one exotic (at a time) per X core. (I understand this is a lot of work for Paizo's web team)
Xxxx-1 is a core race (learn the game, then go on to strange combos).
GM credit (or GM stars credit) (with the level 1 rebuild you could conceivably have a group of six friends take turns GMing for everyone to open an exotic race. (unless I am wrong on how rebuild/slow play work, the number becomes four friends).
Alternate aasimars & tieflings have same stats configuration as traditional aasimars & tieflings.
Umbriere Moonwhisper |
i would suggest opening up the
Ifrit
Undine
Sylph
Oread
Fetchling
Suli
for general use as those are some of the oldest boon races, and about no less common than tieflings, aasimaars, half-elves or half-orcs, i can understand if Fetchling and Suli need some time, but the other 4 should be opened up ASAP
i'd also like to see the dragon empires races opened up for general use as well
the
Samsaran
Nagaji
Kitsune
Vishkanya
Catfolk
though out of these 5, i'd start with opening up the samsaran snd be extra careful with the kitsune, vishkanya, and catfolk.
Worldbuilder |
It depends partly on what Paizo wants PFS to be: Do they want PFS to be a gateway drug to playing home games or do they see PFS as an end in its own? I don't think Paizo intends PFS to be the primary method of consuming Pathfinder for most of their customers, I think they want players to "grow out" of PFS and start playing home games. Restricting content is a good way to...
I think PFS ends up becoming the end all more often than not now. This is based solely on my personal experience, what I've seen at FLGS, and my online group.
A lot of people from both my online group and FLGS started off running/playing campaigns. Lets face it, campaigns fall apart, and based off what I hear from others and personal experience, its more the norm than the exception. In real life people burn out, move, die, get married, get divorced, get new jobs. In game, parties get wiped, betray each other, half the party dies, plot characters die, etc.
When your the GM and a game dies for some reason, its demoralizing and takes a lot out of you. So those people find PFS, a lot of them don't do campaigns anymore. Don't need to worry about those normal gaming things happening and ruining the game.
If the GM burns out I can bring the character to a new table. If Billy and Suzy get married and move to Spain there are other players.
Now, a few people who started with PFS at FLGS and online have started campaigns. But I've only seen two of those go past about level 6-7, out of probably 30. Mostly they all just play PFS now.
Sorry, total derail, not my overall intention.
What about expanding on the core races more? Make them more exciting. Back in 3.5 I know some of the settings had multiple races of Elves, gnomes, etc. It keeps the game more core while opening up new options. I know they did that some with the races guide, but why not give each race its own book that expands on its core options a little? Maybe that will help both sides of the fence, those who want options and those who want less exotic races.
Spaarky |
Ifrit Undine Sylph Oread these are the newest race boons. 2012 saw them introduced basically at Gencon, and now in 2013 after this years gencon people are getting them at other conventions. I am in favor of opening up races in other ways, but I honestly hate the argument that, "I don't have cons in my area because we are too small of an area." There are cons everywhere, even overseas and now online if you want one there are ways of getting one. In my 2 years organizing PFS I have earned 5 race boons and all but 1 I have given away. Race boons are a great incentive to go to cons and help out.
Leathert |
I like my fantasy games to be fantasy-y. Thus, I wouldn't mind getting more races for lore reasons. Though I do understand that those races that are usually evil would be a bit difficult to explain. We already laugh at our parties' compositions when we "a half of a human" in. And that doesn't really require the already avalaible extra races.
For balance reasons I understand the need to consider carefully which races to allow. But some of those not allowed are not any stronger than those we already have.
Thirdly, I think that allowing some things as convention only is annoying when you live in a country that gets only one convention large enought to get convention status for PFS in a year. Allowing those races like that means that the balance has already been considered, and found okay. This year that con only had nagaji and wayang (dunno where the kitsune went), and I didn't get either (mostly because I didn't GM). It's just, I don't know, disappointing to get all these cool ideas for a character and realize I'll probably never get to play them. (Though we are playing Dragon's Demand more freely, and I have a grippli there).
I'm 25.
trollbill |
I am generally against excessively opening all potential materials in a Living Campaign and think they should continue to be kept limited as rewards. I could make arguments about campaign integrity and racial rarity, and I understand the complaint from those who have a more difficult time doing the things that are required to earn the rewards. But I was heavily involved in a living campaign that opened up everything for the sake of fairness and marketing. It was a huge mistake. While doing so did make the players happy, it made campaign rewards meaningless and de-incentivized the people that made the campaign happen (the organizers, DMs and heavily invested players) so that what they ended up with was a lot of people who wanted to play and no one who was willing to organize or DM for them. You'd think that since the rewards were pretty minor to begin with, that this wouldn't really be an issue, except this sends a signal (intentional or otherwise) to the organizers and DMs that the campaign no longer considers them important enough to reward.
Tactical Monkey |
Thinking it over I thought to myself "Why didn't they think of this?"
-How it could work-
1) Players with preexisting accounts are given a chronicle sheet via email on an Annual or Seasonal sending of the first week for Seasonal and the first month for Annual.
1a) Each Chronicle sheet is watermarked with that persons Account Name in the center to identify ownership.
1b) When a player has received one of each Seasonal they will be permanently removed from the list when it comes down to who to send the Seasonal chronicle sheets to.
2) Players who make an account after the send out time are put into a group for a Lottery Chance each month during the Season/Year.
2a) For a hypothetical estimate lets say 5 people each month are randomly given either randomly the Seasonal or Annual chronicle sheet.
2b) When that person "wins" the lottery regardless if they only obtained Seasonal or Annual, their name is removed from the Lottery Pool.
3) Seasonal Chronicles are the ones that give access to the elemental-kin at the start of each month during the first week of each season.
3a) Spring is Oread.
3b) Summer is Ifrit.
3c) Fall is Sylph.
3d) Winter is Undine.
4) Annual Chronicles are ones that give players access to the specific theme for the "Year of the [x]" adventure and are only given to players who make an accout or have a preexisting account within the first month of the new "Year of the".
4a) As an Example: Year of the Demon's Annual Chronicle sheet, will give players access to Tiefling and Aasimar exotic races.
5) Characters of Seasonal or Annual and are underneath a specific level cannot be "Grandfathered" into the next season/year.
5a) Seasonal characters must reach a minimum of at least Level 4. If a Elemental-kin character cannot it is considered "retired".
5b) Annual characters must reach a minimum of at least Level 6. For example a Tiefling that is one adventure away from Level 6, that player must find a way to increase the level to 6 or retire their character.
6) To expand the list to keep it fresh with character races the following will be added to restricted: Catfolk, Drow, Hobgoblins, Kobolds, Orcs, and Ratfolk and the Changelings, Duergar, Gillmen, Merfolk, Samsarans, Strix, Svirfneblin, and Vanaras.
7) How will this affect players who missed out?
7a) Seasonal is more forgiving. If you come in at December, you will get the Undine chronicle sheet but by the start of next fall you will have obtained each seasonal. They can also obtain one via Lottery if they are lucky.
7b) Annual is harder to obtain and only given out for the first month of each new "Year of the" and they have a small Lottery chance to obtain one before the year is over.
Violinist |
-snip-
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Yeah I could get behind this.
Or at least parts of this. I get that race boons have a big bragging rights thing behind them. Though something else could be cooked up for convention boons, maybe. Or have some races in rotation and some of them boon-only. Exclusivity would take care of the rest.
Mergy |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm all for planetouched being retired. Blood of Fiends and Blood of Angels has made them a far more powerful choice than any other core race. Add to that their ability to fast-track into casting prestige classes, and I would be thrilled to see a retirement and grandfathering date set.
Age 24, play a home game and PFS, and I do have one tiefling character.
Fahim Demir |
Lots of good ideas.
I like that, except for number 5. I think it solves a nonexistent problem; if people really want to apply a single credit to that year's special race, why not allow it? It's their credit. I think it would go very, very poorly to say, "if you haven't gotten to play (and succeed at) fifteen scenarios by next year, you lose all of the work you put in on this character, this year."
The seasonal character sheet thing is adorable, though, at least for a year. I'm not fond of the idea of making them available for only a week each season, though. Even the holiday boons have a month-long window to get them signed off. Why not make them available for the whole season in question, that year? Yes, I could (hypothetically, if I had infinite time and the desire) start as many first-level Oread as I could find sessions to play in, but that seems like a massive investment, with only level-one rocks to show for it. I'm not sure we need to work overly hard to make that impossible.
It also occurred to me that by making the sulu (for example) playable at the right time, Paizo would be encouraging people to buy the Blood of the Sands book that they would obviously put out that same year. Then, at the end of the year, the sulu go back into the boon-only box, and a new race replaces them (Blood of the Frog, for grippli? Blood of the Wait-They-Don't-Have-Any-Blood, for androids?).
Revenantdog |
I'm pretty much all for the inclusion of some new races in PFS, sure it can allow for powergaming, but your never going to be able to stop powergaming, if thats how people want to have their fun, cool.
I mean, the real setup for what races are core and what races or exotic is fairly arbitrary and focused entirely on western concepts of fantasy. I'm pretty stoked about the creation of the Eastern races and use them frequently in my home games. I'd love to see Samsaran, Kitsune, Nagaji and Wayang added, as well as the plane-touched humanoids. I have zero interest in ever playing a halfling or a gnome but I find the Wayang to be pretty interesting and I would really like to roll up a bard or shadow summoner someday.
So ya! love some new options.
(25 this month!)