Magic Items That Destroy Worlds


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

No, but it is specifically naming an energy type, and the creature types that can be affected by it.

Is 'normal' UV enough to hurt all fungi? No. A hit from a torch doesn't necessarily set a tree on fire, and not all acids are strong enough to damage things without long exposure, either.

But there's a reason you don't find Brown Mold outside basking in the rays, soaking up that heat and getting ever bigger. Ditto Yellow Mold. And that reason is pretty much that long-term exposure to UV is not their friends.

If you've got a better reason why Brown Mold hasn't slowly enveloped the whole world soaking in the heat of the sun's rays, I'm all ears.

UV has been the bane of oozes, slimes, molds and fungi critters in the game for a long time.

==Aelryinth


If 'normal' UV isn't enough to hurt fungi that aren't specifically damaged by it, why do you think brown mold is?


Aratrok wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

Ultraviolet light.

That's the key word. Not 'the spell'.

There's only one other source of UV in the game. If UV from a spell can harm something, presumably natural UV can, since the same creatures don't have UV resistance. You know, the same way Fire from a spell can hurt something, and fire from a, well, fire can hurt them.

It's specifically saying that those creatures are vulnerable to ultraviolet light. That's the key point, not that 'magic is creating it makes them vulnerable to it'.

==Aelryinth

Nonmagical fire hurts creatures because we have rules describing how much damage you take when you're on fire, how to avoid catching fire, douse yourself, etc.

"UV Damage" is not a thing. Sunbeam just does extra damage to fungi, mold, oozes, and slimes. Unless- looking at that list you're using as evidence- you're going to suggest that all mushrooms disintegrate in sunlight, which I don't think is true. :P

Great point Aratrok. I see tons of mushrooms growing around the yard all the time. In broad daylight! What spiteful little fungi they must be to mock the sun and its godlike power in such a way. :P

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

If it wasn't vulnerable to sunlight, can you give me a good reason why Brown mold doesn't cover the world?

Some things are more vulnerable to certain energies then others. Some trees burn fast, others hardly at all. Some people walk out in the sun and two minutes later their first sunburn is starting. Some can be out there all day and it doesn't matter.

Some molds are the former, and some mushrooms are the latter, just like other things in nature. There are PLENTY of things that do not do well in direct sunlight, and that actually includes a lot of fungi, too!

Brown Mold is one of the things that doesn't do well, and the sun keeps this world-freezing horror at bay.

==Aelryinth


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Maybe one guy put a sphere of annihilation at the bottom of the ocean and another guy (or guys) have some decanters of endless water on geyser mode. Both people/groups think they're slowly destroying the world, but they're actually canceling each other out.


Yes, I know you think brown mold is destroyed by sunlight. You already said that. Please show me the rules text that has convinced you that it is.


Aelryinth wrote:
If you've got a better reason why Brown Mold hasn't slowly enveloped the whole world soaking in the heat of the sun's rays, I'm all ears.

Because sunlight doesn't deal fire damage?

Brown Mold wrote:
Fire brought within 5 feet of brown mold causes the mold to instantly double in size. Cold damage, such as from a cone of cold, instantly destroys it.

Even if sunlight would do fire damage, it'd kinda follow that the cold of night would do cold damage,which would instantly destroy the brown mold.

[Edit]: also the whole world is not destroyed by any one plant species "slowly enveloping the whole world". The ecosystem keeps the balance, I imagine it's the same for Brown Mold.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

ah, ah. You're presuming 'fire' without 'fire damage', then presuming 'cold' without pointing out 'cold damage'.

I.e. the fire gets close enough to do fire damage, it doubles. General warmth will also slowly increase it in size...it feeds on heat. And yes, being in the sun can do heat damage, and yes, fire resistance does stop it. By your reckoning, if it's not actual fire, it can't do fire damage, and that's patently not the case.

'nighttime' does not do 'cold damage', and thus would not slay the mold.

i.e. intense sunlight, like, say, a desert, that deals out environmental fire/heat damage, should make a brown mold simply explode in size. Ergo, there should be no hot deserts...they should be wastelands of brown mold soaking up that sunlight and playing havoc with the environment.

==Aelryinth


Joanna Swiftblade wrote:

Magical Item that can cast Teleport Object and Greater Creation at-will/x/day.

Rods from Gods anyone?

Went over this in the space station creation bit. RAW the likely damage from near orbital bombardment is 20d6.

However, if you have the time to teleport to a planet killer size comet or asteroid and the time to steer it into the world, that's another way.


Aelryinth wrote:

ah, ah. You're presuming 'fire' without 'fire damage', then presuming 'cold' without pointing out 'cold damage'.

I.e. the fire gets close enough to do fire damage, it doubles. General warmth will also slowly increase it in size...it feeds on heat. And yes, being in the sun can do heat damage, and yes, fire resistance does stop it. By your reckoning, if it's not actual fire, it can't do fire damage, and that's patently not the case.

'nighttime' does not do 'cold damage', and thus would not slay the mold.

i.e. intense sunlight, like, say, a desert, that deals out environmental fire/heat damage, should make a brown mold simply explode in size. Ergo, there should be no hot deserts...they should be wastelands of brown mold soaking up that sunlight and playing havoc with the environment.

==Aelryinth

Welcome to D&D where random CR 2-3 things were thrown in with little care given to how obscenely dangerous they actually are. IE - shadows, brown mold, etc.

Dark Archive

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Ashiel wrote:

Yeah, no, that's an effect of the spell. It's an effect of the spell. Just like the energy will instantly kill undead creatures (and only undead creatures) vulnerable to sunlight because the spell says it will.

The molds say specifically if they are vulnerable to sunlight or not. This spell says it damages to molds as though they were undead creatures.

Yeah, that's just that one spell. Just as the fire from a Wall of Fire spell does extra damage against undead, and yet most other fire spells do not, nor does normal fire do extra damage against undead.

General trumps specific, and there's no general 'oozes / slimes / molds are hurt by sunlight' rule, just as the existence of a fire spell that does extra damage to undead (as produce flame and flame blade used to also do, IIRC) doesn't mean that one can assume some sort of general 'undead take more damage from fire' rule.

Ashiel wrote:
Welcome to D&D where random CR 2-3 things were thrown in with little care given to how obscenely dangerous they actually are. IE - shadows, brown mold, etc.

Yup.

There's nothing *at all* to stop the entire Mwangi Expanse from being transformed into green slime overnight because one tiny patch made contact with one tree. Sure, it might all die in the morning, but that does nothing for every single living thing that died in that jungle, and the morning sun is going to rise over a steaming sea of dying green slime.

And brown mold doesn't even have that going for it. Even if one made up a rule that it couldn't grow in sunlight, it could still annihilate a warm region overnight, and volcanic regions in particular would be overrun with the stuff.

And shadows (wraiths, specters, greater shadows, dread wraiths, etc. anything both incorporeal and able to create spawn). Just, game over. A few thousand of them might get channeled to death in the process of taking over the world, but there would be billions of them, and only a finite number of people who can channel energy in existence (none of whom would last more than 1 round, when faced with infinity d6 Str drain 3 seconds *after* channeling the first wave to death). The only survivors would be those immune to ability damage, such as those pesky undead clerics, and most of those can't channel positive energy anyway...

All pretty much problems with the 'infinite self-generation' capabilities of some creatures, like molds and slimes and undead with create spawn (and, to a lesser degree, oozes that split into more oozes when you hit them).

Very low-tech versions of a 'grey goo' scenario, in which nano-builders / von Neumann machines get out of control and start deconstructing everything they come into contact with to create more nano-machines, until the entire world is covered with a grey heaving 'sea' of nano-machines, looking for more stuff to disassemble and make more nano-machines...

A Nexian attempt to create a swarm of tiny constructs that emulate the fabricate spell (by disintegrating a pre-existing item and using it as the raw components to fashion the new desired item) could be a fun plot story. The wizard and his workspace are now a heaving sea of construct swarms that disintegrate anyone or thing they engulf, and then spend a few rounds afterwards turning whatever they disintegrated into whatever they were programmed to make (breastplates, in this case, for the Nexian military). The building is collapsing into a pile of shiny new breastplates, and the swarms are starting to spread out into the city.

It wouldn't be quite so catastrophic if the wizard had just given a single construct swarm the ability to turn everything it engulfed into new breastplates, but he also accidentally gave it the ability to make more construct swarms, as well (as they ate all of his notes on their creation, and something went terribly wrong as they devoured all the information on how they were created!). So now there's a half dozen of them, and if even one gets away...


Yeah. In the real world you don't get "grey goo" scenarios from living things because everything complex enough to be alive has complex dietary needs (even plants need all sorts of micronutrients -- chlorophyll requires magnesium frex). You can't just "grow on exposure to fire" -- just an energy source isn't enough, you need sources for all the elements that make up your body.

But brown mold isn't limited that way -- it can just create matter out of nothing if it has fire.

(Also, living things tend to have defenses -- immune systems and so on -- so 'green slime' likely wouldn't work so well in our world either. Also parasites that kill their hosts too fast don't tend to last long so...)


Dot fo later.


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Artanthos wrote:
Mudfoot wrote:
If someone dumped a Sphere of Annihilation at the bottom of the ocean, an Aboleth would come along and think "That's useful. I'll have that." It might take a few dozen Aboleths before one got control of it, but even so...
Gaining control of the sphere would not slow down its consumption of the surrounding water.

Doesn't really matter. All you need to do it move it out of the water (maybe into a strong box) and it ceases to be an issue.

Even if you fail to get control of it, it moves towards you at a mere 10' per round, and pretty much anything can beat that. So an Aboleth could just recruit some Skum to tow it slowly up to the surface by lack-of-brain power, where the Aboleth can lob it up into the air. It's then just a minor shipping hazard.

There's something of an issue about how fast the water would flow into the Sphere while this is going on and thus whether it's entirely safe to approach within 40' of it; this would depend on the local water pressure and I'm not about to calculate it (the actual effect would be a horizontal vortex bisected by 2 converging vertical flows as water is essentially incompressible; given the lowish viscosity of water, most of the water would just be circulating it instead of falling in). Get a Ring of Freedom of Movement to assist in this case.

Mind you, Aboleths may not be the issue. A Kraken could control this thing in its sleep.


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Aelryinth wrote:

ah, ah. You're presuming 'fire' without 'fire damage', then presuming 'cold' without pointing out 'cold damage'.

I.e. the fire gets close enough to do fire damage, it doubles. General warmth will also slowly increase it in size...it feeds on heat. And yes, being in the sun can do heat damage, and yes, fire resistance does stop it. By your reckoning, if it's not actual fire, it can't do fire damage, and that's patently not the case.

'nighttime' does not do 'cold damage', and thus would not slay the mold.

i.e. intense sunlight, like, say, a desert, that deals out environmental fire/heat damage, should make a brown mold simply explode in size. Ergo, there should be no hot deserts...they should be wastelands of brown mold soaking up that sunlight and playing havoc with the environment.

==Aelryinth

since it is considered normal to find brown mold in patches of 5ft I would guess that is the size it is stable at and above that the cold it generates would eventually kill a portion of it. Say in a couple of hours. This is similar to the toxins released by real world organisms that spread, so you could cover a large area but then the cold it generates would kill most of it off, leaving scattered patches of it.

say you chuck it an volcano the volcano is frozen solid within minutes and most of the mold dies from its own cold damage.

and for all we know surface insects might love brown mold and rip and brown mold at the surface apart.


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Why go to all of this trouble?

Enchant a portable hole and a bag of holding to be fireproof. Have a fire elemental take them to the core of the planet, and then stick one within the other.


Ipslore the Red wrote:

I think the atomic bomb thing may have been me back when Tiny Coffee Golem made a thread about defending a city.

Long post:

** spoiler omitted **

You are very wrong, or at least the post you quoted is. About the hydrogen, yes that would cause a large explosion. Where the mistake is is in the true creation trap is wrong first a megaton is not 4.1... petajoules its 4.1... giga joules, you got your information from the wrong place, this means the explosion is exactly 1 million times larger than your post says. The magnitude of that explosion is probably enough to kill all life on golarion by making the crust crack open everywhere on he planet (keep in mind this explosion would be ~100000000 times more powerful than the most powerful nuke ever used), and at very least would kill all complex life on golarion. Fire immunity would not save you, the shock wave would vaporise you and your city. In fact atomize you.

However you could not make this trap, why? Well what is the price of anti matter? Its rare to the point of non existence. All the wealth of golarion could not buy .000001g of antimater. Its priceless, so the material cost would be 5xinfinity.


Hogeyhead wrote:
However you could not make this trap, why? Well what is the price of anti matter? Its rare to the point of non existence. All the wealth of golarion could not buy .000001g of antimater. Its priceless, so the material cost would be 5xinfinity.

I may be a bit off on this, but if I remember correctly anywhere from five to ten tons of antimatter exist in Earth's atmosphere at any given moment.

There's a number of natural processes that can happen in-atmosphere which, as a part of the process, generate positrons.

And it's not that it's rare... it's that antimatter is extremely hard to store. It wants to turn into normal matter, and on top of that reacts explosively with matter. Generating it is simply a matter of having enough power, and any setting which includes high-powered magic items should have enough magical power to throw around for that. Considering they have contained black holes within the setting (sphere of annihilation), antimatter really isn't outside the realm of possibility.

The problem becomes, what to do with it? The only practical use for it in a magic setting is blowing stuff up, and to be blunt they have spells that are far more efficient at it. If you really wanted to end the world, it would be far easier to just build a tower connected to the elemental plane of fire to unleash the world's most massive fireball spell than to deal with trying to generate, contain, and then do a controlled unleash of antimatter.


Sorry when I said rare, I meant usable antimatter you are right there is anti matter in the atmosphere, and if you could figure out a way to store even a small quantity (magically obviously, a pair of custom spells perhaps) you could price it, so I suppose you may be able to make that trap, and it would certainly be faster (and less foilable) than a portal to the plane of fire. It will probably still be prohibitably expensive even if you have the wbl of a lvl 30 character.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Keep in mind that a Sphere of Annihilation is not a black hole. It has no mass, nor gravity.

It's just an open hole in reality, little different then an uncontrolled permanent one way Gate spell.

==Aelryinth


The key to Rovagug's prison


MagusJanus wrote:
Hogeyhead wrote:
However you could not make this trap, why? Well what is the price of anti matter? Its rare to the point of non existence. All the wealth of golarion could not buy .000001g of antimater. Its priceless, so the material cost would be 5xinfinity.

I may be a bit off on this, but if I remember correctly anywhere from five to ten tons of antimatter exist in Earth's atmosphere at any given moment.

There's a number of natural processes that can happen in-atmosphere which, as a part of the process, generate positrons.

And it's not that it's rare... it's that antimatter is extremely hard to store. It wants to turn into normal matter, and on top of that reacts explosively with matter. Generating it is simply a matter of having enough power, and any setting which includes high-powered magic items should have enough magical power to throw around for that. Considering they have contained black holes within the setting (sphere of annihilation), antimatter really isn't outside the realm of possibility.

The problem becomes, what to do with it? The only practical use for it in a magic setting is blowing stuff up, and to be blunt they have spells that are far more efficient at it. If you really wanted to end the world, it would be far easier to just build a tower connected to the elemental plane of fire to unleash the world's most massive fireball spell than to deal with trying to generate, contain, and then do a controlled unleash of antimatter.

Also there isn't 5-10 tons of anti matter in the atmosphere there are a few billion particles. You are off by a few dozen orders of magnitude


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Mudfoot wrote:
The decanter produces 5 gallons per second, or 22 litres. . .

Certainly not world ending but an interesting thought came to mind, waterwheel automobiles, how fast could one reasonably travel? (the roads would all have to run off into irrigation channels)


Hogeyhead wrote:
Also there isn't 5-10 tons of anti matter in the atmosphere there are a few billion particles. You are off by a few dozen orders of magnitude

I didn't remember correctly then. I am not happy that happened, but it did. I apologize for the misstatement.


One of my players used 2 decanters of endless water to power an outrigger canoe...worked pretty good.


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Yebng wrote:
Mudfoot wrote:
The decanter produces 5 gallons per second, or 22 litres. . .
Certainly not world ending but an interesting thought came to mind, waterwheel automobiles, how fast could one reasonably travel? (the roads would all have to run off into irrigation channels)

As I noted elsewhere the decanter provides a motive force of about 164N, or 36 lbs. So it's equivalent to your vehicle being pushed by that much force. The waterwheel is fairly irrelevant; it would result in some mechanical losses and a lot of splashing; you might just as well point the thing out the back of the cart.

Because this is essentially a rocket engine (a bit more powerful than anything an amateur can buy off the net, AFAICT), it doesn't produce a specific power like a car engine does (the power is proportional to the speed it's going). But we can approximate it to that of an animal pulling with a force of 164N, which isn't a great deal. You might consider it like a small but lively animal, say the dogs for a dog-cart. Its top speed is purely down to mechanical efficiencies in the wheels, air resistance and so on, which might allow some use for light transportation (it would be epic on a modern bike which would probably beat 100mph) but little use on a cart.


Oh my, I missed this thread.

Things like in the OP reinforce my reasons for wanting to have PCs RP how to discover items and treat the world as relatively low magic as far as items are concerned. This also plays up why so many magical schools exist and to use the UE items as merely what's possible rather than what's available. Scrolls of spells would be treated like corporate trade secrets. The game awards only two free spells to wizards in return for killing swathes of enemies. The magic mart effect of a single wizard knowing "all the spells" feels cheap.

In the APs I see Paizo hand wave things like the decanter of endless water as providing very brief descriptions as to why a room with a constant level of water stays that way. They just call it "magic" to keep the level constant. Whether it's a different effect from the water creation effect or not is up to the GM.


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In a cosmos where the gods and their servants watch over and regulate reality, none of these little disasters would be permitted to really get going before some minor angelic functionary intervened to stop it.

The benefits of babysitting.


MagusJanus wrote:
Hogeyhead wrote:
Also there isn't 5-10 tons of anti matter in the atmosphere there are a few billion particles. You are off by a few dozen orders of magnitude
I didn't remember correctly then. I am not happy that happened, but it did. I apologize for the misstatement.

No need to apologize, it happens...


Jaelithe wrote:

In a cosmos where the gods and their servants watch over and regulate reality, none of these little disasters would be permitted to really get going before some minor angelic functionary intervened to stop it.

The benefits of babysitting.

I doubt they intervene directly. They manipulate some P.C.'s to deal with the problem.


fictionfan wrote:
Jaelithe wrote:

In a cosmos where the gods and their servants watch over and regulate reality, none of these little disasters would be permitted to really get going before some minor angelic functionary intervened to stop it.

The benefits of babysitting.

I doubt they intervene directly. They manipulate some P.C.'s to deal with the problem.

Angelic minions ... intrepid meddlers ... a difference which makes no difference is no difference. They manipulate ... it gets done.


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fictionfan wrote:
Jaelithe wrote:

In a cosmos where the gods and their servants watch over and regulate reality, none of these little disasters would be permitted to really get going before some minor angelic functionary intervened to stop it.

The benefits of babysitting.

I doubt they intervene directly. They manipulate some P.C.'s to deal with the problem.

Not always.

Inevitables are the perfect example: A race whose sole purpose for existence is to stomp a hole into whatever dumb bastard is messing around with the laws of the universe in ways the gods aren't too fond of.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
lemeres wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
lemeres wrote:
I wanted to discuss the logistical problems of having real planet destroying objects as mcguffins.
Sounds to me like the ball's in your court now. Why don't you serve? :)

Unfortunately, my knowledge of wondrous items and the like is rather sparse. I do know that there were magical items on this scale within the game setting by looking at the planet Eox on the map of the setting's solar system. Anything that can turn a life sustaining planet into one irregularly shaped chunks surrounded by a thousand moonlets is something that I can get behind (because I sure as heck do not want to be in front of it)

Also, I like anything that taught me the word "moonlet".

EDIT: the star map was slightly misleading, since I thought the Diaspora was part of the whole Eox thing, but I still stand by my comment about its apparent shape and deadness.

Nothing beats Amber Diceless. In that game every player carried the means to destroy the entire game universe... the blood running through their veins.


LazarX wrote:
Nothing beats Amber Diceless. In that game every player carried the means to destroy the entire game universe... the blood running through their veins.

Well, they could destroy Amber and the infinite worlds of shadow by erasing the Pattern. I think the courts of chaos would still be fine so long as the Logrus was intact.

In order to do so, they'd have to know of the existence of the primal pattern and how to reach it. Corwin and Random only found their way there because Oberon was in disguise with them and guiding them through shadow.

The same trick won't work in Amber, Rebma or Tirna Nogth since they're only reflections of the real pattern that Dworkin drew in his own blood copying the eye of the chaos serpent.

By my count the only people who know the secret are Oberon (dead?), Dworkin (mad?), Brand (dead?), Corwin, Random and possibly the other red headed children who actually listened to Dworkin. Oh and of course Merlin which is to whom the story of the first five books in the Amber series is being told.


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Nerds.


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Thelemic_Noun wrote:
Nerds.

Damn right. Proud of it.

(As further proof, it pains me to write those sentences knowing that they're grammatically incomplete and don't make a full clause.)

Grand Lodge

Mudfoot wrote:
Yebng wrote:
Mudfoot wrote:
The decanter produces 5 gallons per second, or 22 litres. . .
Certainly not world ending but an interesting thought came to mind, waterwheel automobiles, how fast could one reasonably travel? (the roads would all have to run off into irrigation channels)

As I noted elsewhere the decanter provides a motive force of about 164N, or 36 lbs. So it's equivalent to your vehicle being pushed by that much force. The waterwheel is fairly irrelevant; it would result in some mechanical losses and a lot of splashing; you might just as well point the thing out the back of the cart.

Because this is essentially a rocket engine (a bit more powerful than anything an amateur can buy off the net, AFAICT), it doesn't produce a specific power like a car engine does (the power is proportional to the speed it's going). But we can approximate it to that of an animal pulling with a force of 164N, which isn't a great deal. You might consider it like a small but lively animal, say the dogs for a dog-cart. Its top speed is purely down to mechanical efficiencies in the wheels, air resistance and so on, which might allow some use for light transportation (it would be epic on a modern bike which would probably beat 100mph) but little use on a cart.

If the whole decanter could somehow be encased in a device where the sum total of the water was forced into ever-decreasing tubes and allowed to expel to atmosphere the effective force could be increased dramatically The velocity pressure would be larger with the decreased internal diameter of each successive tube.

It would work something like a large-ish pressure washer.


Nifty Butterfinger wrote:
Mudfoot wrote:
Yebng wrote:
Mudfoot wrote:
The decanter produces 5 gallons per second, or 22 litres. . .
Certainly not world ending but an interesting thought came to mind, waterwheel automobiles, how fast could one reasonably travel? (the roads would all have to run off into irrigation channels)

As I noted elsewhere the decanter provides a motive force of about 164N, or 36 lbs. So it's equivalent to your vehicle being pushed by that much force. The waterwheel is fairly irrelevant; it would result in some mechanical losses and a lot of splashing; you might just as well point the thing out the back of the cart.

Because this is essentially a rocket engine (a bit more powerful than anything an amateur can buy off the net, AFAICT), it doesn't produce a specific power like a car engine does (the power is proportional to the speed it's going). But we can approximate it to that of an animal pulling with a force of 164N, which isn't a great deal. You might consider it like a small but lively animal, say the dogs for a dog-cart. Its top speed is purely down to mechanical efficiencies in the wheels, air resistance and so on, which might allow some use for light transportation (it would be epic on a modern bike which would probably beat 100mph) but little use on a cart.

If the whole decanter could somehow be encased in a device where the sum total of the water was forced into ever-decreasing tubes and allowed to expel to atmosphere the effective force could be increased dramatically The velocity pressure would be larger with the decreased internal diameter of each successive tube.

It would work something like a large-ish pressure washer.

That doesn't sound right. You'd increase the pressure with which the water emerges by focusing more of it into a tight beam, however the actual kinetic energy would remain the same.

Also if my knowledge of fluid dynamics is correct, the system proposed would lose energy to vibration and thermal energy within the tubes actually resulting in decreased efficiency.


Permanent teleportation circles could be used to set up a planet-buster apparatus in orbit. You need to be outside the atmosphere to set it up. Basically the teleportation circle teleports the object to a higher altitude, whence it falls towards the surface. But before it reaches the surface it encounters the teleportation circle and is teleported to a higher altitude. It falls again. Repeat. Eventually the object is falling at relativistic speeds. At this point you move the circle out of the way and let the object strike the planet at 0.1 C.

Larry Niven described this effect in an essay he wrote on teleportation.

The trick is making sure the circle remains in the path of the falling object, since it is travelling at a different speed each time.

Teleportation Circle only works on creatures, so you would prefer a creature that is immune to fire so that re-entry is not a problem. Use a paralyzed fire giant. Of course, at that speed an object probably won't have time to burn up in the atmosphere anyway.

Peet


It occurred to me that the decanter-on-a-bike can be equated to a bike free-wheeling down a 1 in 5 slope (which is a steep road, but nothing outlandish), assuming a total mass of 180 lbs. On a 500lb wooden cart carrying 4 people and their luggage (=1200 lbs) it's a 1 in 33 slope. If that's a rough or muddy road, it won't move.

RAW, a creature must stand on the teleportation circle to trigger it. So arguably it can't be moving, at least not enough to matter. At the very least, it would get a pain in the knees.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

The fire giant would die. Re-entry heat is a byproduct of friction. He'd be ground to dust long before he burned up.

==Aelryinth


Aelryinth wrote:

The fire giant would die. Re-entry heat is a byproduct of friction. He'd be ground to dust long before he burned up.

==Aelryinth

I don't see why you think that matters. It's heat, therefore fire damage. He's immune to fire. Heat being caused by molecules moving is nothing special. All thermal energy is particles moving.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

The friction is not heat. Friction is abrasion, his body will be ground away by the atmosphere. He could be cold as a cucumber and he'd still be sandpapered to death by the air.

==Aelryinth

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Aelryinth wrote:

The fire giant would die. Re-entry heat is a byproduct of friction. He'd be ground to dust long before he burned up.

==Aelryinth

That's a common, but mistaken assumption. It's not friction, it's compression, the same thing that makes the back of your refrigerator so hot. The spacecraft is essentially compressing a vast volume of air in front of it because of it's speed.

Sovereign Court

Portable hole + Bags of holding...the end is night.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

the air is moving over and past his body at supersonic speeds. It has real physical power and at the speed he'd be falling he'd die.

there's a reason they make the space shuttle and planes out of temperature resistant metals and ceramics, and the space shuttle would still lose tiles to turbulence coming down.

==Aelryinth


Aelryinth wrote:

the air is moving over and past his body at supersonic speeds. It has real physical power and at the speed he'd be falling he'd die.

there's a reason they make the space shuttle and planes out of temperature resistant metals and ceramics, and the space shuttle would still lose tiles to turbulence coming down.

==Aelryinth

See that? Temperature resistant, not "abrasion resistant". Like LazarX said, it's not friction at all. The damage is due to heat. Fire immunity protects from it.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

YOu bolded the wrong words. You were supposed to bold 'metals and ceramics'. You also completely ignored the fact of 'turbulence'.

Go read or watch the video of the guy who jumped out of the balloon at 100,000 feet. He was in a protective suit, not because of temperature heat, but because of the cold and the turbulence. He reached almost the speed of sound on his descent, was literally helplessly being spun around by the air as he came down, and only when the atmosphere thickened enough to start slowing him down did he get any control back. If he hadn't been able to regain control of his spin, he would have died, unable to pop his chute.

What you're trying to say is that an object moving at supersonic speeds doesn't suffer abrasion.

I'm sorry, but you have to hit the high Mach numbers before severe burns from temperature is a problem. But you only have to look at how often paint is reapplied to airliners to realize the air is grinding away at things, and at multiple Machs, this gets much, much harder...IN ADDITION to the temperature problem.

Remember, it took a long time for us to break the speed of sound because the airplanes weren't strong enough to get past the barrier. They would literally shake apart from the turbulence, and we lost test pilots because of it. X-1 and Chuck Yeager was a huge thing because the plane survived the speed it was going, NOT because you could cook an egg on the wing (you couldn't, it wasn't fast enough).

Abrasion does indeed cause friction heat, but abrasion also causes erosion, there's no way the two are separate...but the temperature comes later, not first.

The fire giant will be ripped apart by the atmosphere long before temperature becomes a real problem. He's just not strong enough to take the force of the atmosphere at miles/second, even if he can ignore the heat.

===Aelryinth


Rynjin wrote:


(...)

Not always.

Inevitables are the perfect example: A race whose sole purpose for existence is to stomp a hole into whatever dumb bastard is messing around with the laws of the universe in ways the gods aren't too fond of.

Inevitables are my favourite form of GM-fiat. Whenever the PCs find some loophole that seems fundamentally game-breaking, "There is a very rare species of Inevitables to stop that, don't even try." Given either directly or through a few of said Inevitables actually showing up and chastising the characters. You know, if it seems too baked into the game to just remove or something.


Why are people using space shuttles (which would travel at Mach 30 during reentry) and a man skydiving from high atmosphere (he was a few miles short of orbit) to discuss whether or not a fire giant could survive a fall from orbit?

Use satellites. Then ask NASA about the time a satellite falling from orbit caused them to get fined for littering by Australia.

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