For years now, Aroden is mentioned as having been a wizard, and as far as I know, every time we see anything approaching crunch for him, it's suggested that he was a single class wizard, in spite of his preference to rock the sword and board. In an earlier thread, JJ said that he was a wizard that used a special type of magic that took advantage of a sword and shield. Alright, not quite my cup of tea, but I guess I'll swallow that.
Thing is, we've been getting more and more art of Aroden lately, and whether he's ready to plant a blow firmly upon Deskari's noggin or he's just swinging his burning sword towards the reader in visual soliloquy, most of the art we have of him is pretty much him using his sword like anyone else would.
Now I'm not saying that he doesn't seem like a wizard - we have plenty of lore to support his mastery of all things arcane. To me though, he comes across as someone who was a very accomplished spellcaster and a very accomplished warrior, and any way you slice it, that sounds like an Eldritch Knight to me.
As mentioned, JJ said that he is a wizard who found a way to use a sword with his magic, but if that means (as artwork would suggest) that he basically used a sword along with his magic, well, isn't that pretty much exactly what the EK is supposed to represent - a spellcaster who has also learned how use weapons?
Transformation.
Still spell.
Basically what you said transformation spell. Got ninja'd.
The still spell feat means he could cast spells without dropping his sword or shield.
Well, at wizard 20 he has 10 BAB. That makes him martially superior to most people. Combine all the magic he has that could buff his Str into absurd levels and the arcane strike mythic archmage ability, and he could be a pretty accomplished melee wizard. Sure, it's not as efficient as using spells, but when you don't need to be at your absolute best, it's a good way to kill time (and things that aren't as awesome as you)
he was at least a single class wizard with at least 10 mythic tiers, as for his weapon, when you get up to 30th level wizard, it all evens out. he was a bad ass for sure!
Actually, he was a 21st level commoner with a really buff UMD check....
The Runelords were all vanilla conjurers with glaive weapon proficiencies if I remember correctly, so I don't see why Aroden couldn't have done the same with sword and board.
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He was a single-classed wizard who use a sword and shield. Doing that, and doing that well, is perhaps one of the reasons he became a god! :-)
Are you suggesting the Starstone only grants Godhood to un-optimized builds? It would explain why less vaunted options such as a Sword-and-Board Paladin, a Rogue and whatever Cayden was, are the few success stories. :P
The question I have is, was he still a wizard after he became a god? Do such things even matter for deities? What about deities who were never mortal, do any of them have class levels?
Creative Director
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He was a single-classed wizard who use a sword and shield. Doing that, and doing that well, is perhaps one of the reasons he became a god! :-)Are you suggesting the Starstone only grants Godhood to un-optimized builds? It would explain why less vaunted options such as a Sword-and-Board Paladin, a Rogue and whatever Cayden was, are the few success stories. :P
Story ALWAYS trumps optimization.
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Creative Director
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The question I have is, was he still a wizard after he became a god? Do such things even matter for deities? What about deities who were never mortal, do any of them have class levels?
We don't have rules for full deities.
As for demigods, we CAN stat them up... but we can change things as well as we need.
If you ABSOLUTELY WANTED to stat up Aroden... I would suggest doing so by giving him 20 wizard levels, 10 champion tiers, and a stack of unique powers and the like. Use those unique powers to shore up any "unoptomized" stains on his character sheet.
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whatever Cayden was
Drunk.
Also lucky.
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Has Cayden ever asked any of the other Starstone deities what the Starstone is like?
Aroden is dead/missing.
Norgorber doesn't share information.And something tells me Iomedae doesn't talk to him much.
Well, I suppose he could have asked Aroden before he disappeared...
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Cayden walks into Aroden's palace in Axis.
Cayden: Hey Aroden, what's the starstone like?
Aroden: don't you remember?
Cayden: No I was drunk.
Aroden: Oh for the love of, remind me to improve the stone's defenses. Why don't you ask Iomedae?
Cayden: We had an argument on the subject of government recently, and Norgerber won't tell me.
Aroden: *exhales* The starstone is like feeling your entire body electrified with power and your senses achieving a higher level of perception.
Cayden: so it's like getting hit with a lightning bolt and taking hallucinogens, I'm glad I was drunk.
Aroden: NO not like that.
Calistra: it's like spending a night with me.
Cayden: Ok, now I regret being drunk.
Aroden: I need to buy a lock for my door.
funny stuff!
hahahahaha!
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argument on the subject of government
I have to assume this is a euphemism.
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argument on the subject of governmentI have to assume this is a euphemism.
Well it actually was about government till his hand on her rear set the conversation to end on a sour note and a red handprint on his face.
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We need more Gods whose temples are more than temples. Abadar does banks and courthouses. Calistra brothels. Cayden does bars. To a lesser degree, Torag does forges (and he and Cayden probably share breweries and distilleries.) Asmodeus also does courthouses.
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Creative Director
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You don't see him as a dual pathed Champion/Archmage?The question I have is, was he still a wizard after he became a god? Do such things even matter for deities? What about deities who were never mortal, do any of them have class levels?We don't have rules for full deities.
As for demigods, we CAN stat them up... but we can change things as well as we need.
If you ABSOLUTELY WANTED to stat up Aroden... I would suggest doing so by giving him 20 wizard levels, 10 champion tiers, and a stack of unique powers and the like. Use those unique powers to shore up any "unoptomized" stains on his character sheet.
That could work too... but I must admit, I do enjoy the challenge of statting up a character with a few core choices that would be classically considered "poor choices" (a wizard with a sword and shield, for example, or perhaps a rogue who's afraid of the dark, or a barbarian who hates hurting people) and then build that character as well as I can and succeed despite her quirks.
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We need more Gods whose temples are more than temples. Abadar does banks and courthouses. Calistra brothels. Cayden does bars. To a lesser degree, Torag does forges (and he and Cayden probably share breweries and distilleries.) Asmodeus also does courthouses.
I bet any urban gathering of Milani-worshipers include an underground printing press, an avant-garde theatre group's place of performance, and a hidden away room for weapons training.
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And Shelyn might have museums and/or concert halls in her temples.
I always suspected that Aroden was just a full blown wizard, and now I have a better idea...
Wizard 20, Mythic Tier 10 (Champion), with mythic feats abounding, somehow merging his arcane skill with that of his preference for sword-and-board (early idea for magus?). Of course, being a total badass, his raising the starstone, which is basically the ultimate macguffin, elevated him with a massive surge of divinity. Since we only have stats for gods are, I believe, Achaekek, we can therefore surmise that his god-like abilities seemingly complemented his outlook and skills, so he'd probably have at-will Gate powers, at-will Disguise Self spells, crazy bonuses to attack and damage, etc, etc.
So yeah, one could theoretically stat him out, but he's a god, and dead to boot (maybe?) so yeah, why do it anyway?
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So yeah, one could theoretically stat him out, but he's a god, and dead to boot (maybe?) so yeah, why do it anyway?
Because...
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[Wonderful character ideas]
Tangential to concepts that go directly against the grain, I am now put in mind of a Magus I saw, in a Drow-heavy campaign, who rolled a will save (DC20 I think) every time he encountered a female with 15 or more Charisma.
It was perhaps the most amusing way I'd ever seen a party set back without GM interference.Though for the Rogue with scotophobia, it's possibly a statement on the Rogue's possible range of versatility that I can see it being absolutely crippling (for the party scout) to an inconvenience (as a heavy fighter).
Are you suggesting the Starstone only grants Godhood to un-optimized builds?I would love Golarion so hard if that were true....
To be honest - whilst it'd be a silly thing to stipulate (hence the original joke); I actually found it a little bit more enriching to see Cayden, Iomedae and Norgerber fit classic archetypes of what they were in life as opposed to something that would win a DPR Olympics thread.
And Shelyn might have museums and/or concert halls in her temples.
...And Pharasmara, morgues? Temples for Gorum don't exist, however, everyone went out to fight.
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[stuff I am not responding to]
And Shelyn might have museums and/or concert halls in her temples....And Pharasmara, morgues? Temples for Gorum don't exist, however, everyone went out to fight.
Per Death's Heretic, Pharasmin temples often function as morgues in their local area. Perhaps some fighting schools also have a small shrine to Gorum/Irori/Iomedae (depending on technique and outlook, obviously) somewhere?
Makamu
Good call on Shelyn and Pharasma.
That could work too... but I must admit, I do enjoy the challenge of statting up a character with a few core choices that would be classically considered "poor choices" (a wizard with a sword and shield, for example, or perhaps a rogue who's afraid of the dark, or a barbarian who hates hurting people) and then build that character as well as I can and succeed despite her quirks.You don't see him as a dual pathed Champion/Archmage?The question I have is, was he still a wizard after he became a god? Do such things even matter for deities? What about deities who were never mortal, do any of them have class levels?We don't have rules for full deities.
As for demigods, we CAN stat them up... but we can change things as well as we need.
If you ABSOLUTELY WANTED to stat up Aroden... I would suggest doing so by giving him 20 wizard levels, 10 champion tiers, and a stack of unique powers and the like. Use those unique powers to shore up any "unoptomized" stains on his character sheet.
... so what you're saying is that pretty much all of our Mythic characters in Wrath of the Righteous are going to become gods? :D
(It was a joke! We're horribly unoptimized! Also, I'm a player! No spoilers!)
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Gardens for Gozreh
Desnan standing stones/observatory/travelers leanto
Erastil hunting lodge and MANLY MANS primal scream retreat.
Gorum mash pit? Gladiator arena.
Iomedae: doesn't mix business with holyness
Abadar
Irori Everybody's kung fu fighting Dojo
Lamashtu what happens there would blind a calistrian.
Nethys- Library. Construction and demolition.
Norgorber: Its a cheese store. Really.
Pharasma: mortician/undertaker/midwifery. Apparently an accolyte is in charge of the "Welcome to Sandport population: " sign.
Rovagug- slaughter house
Sarenrae monster orphanage.
Shelyn music school
Torag forge
Urgathoa what happens here blinds the lamashtites.
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Urgathoa - All you can eat buffet restaurant.
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[church-as-business tangent]
Other Norgorber church-affiliated businesses include underground fight clubs that have gambling on fights to the death and the medieval equivalent of 'bum-fights' using slaves and kidnapped street people that the patrons can pay to fight and kill in the arena (Skinsaw cult), alchemist / herbary / poisoners shops (Blackfingers) and thieves guilds (the Gray Mous... er, Master).
[/church-as-business tangent]
As for Aroden, Golarion's history is bursting at the seams with single class wizards. Boring!
Instead, maybe;
Razmir's a Sorcerer.
Arazni was either a wizard (if I want a wizard - fighter / cavalier / paladin / ranger Knights of Ozem group) or a cleric (if I want the canon Knights of Ozem who have nothing to do with worshipping a wizard-goddess).
Aroden was also a cleric. (Of who? Someone who had favored weapon - longsword, that much is likely. And, once he was a god, he no longer needed to be a cleric of someone else, and, given that at least two Azlanti gods died when the Starstone fell (moon goddess / magic god), it's possible that his original god(dess) died anyway.)
Not *everybody* needs to be a wizard.
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So Aroden is a cleric of a time displaced himself , worshiping himself with his favored weapon which became his favored weapon because thats what he used when he worshiped himself because... in a stable time loop?
Would explain where he went...
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So Aroden is a cleric of a time displaced himself , worshiping himself with his favored weapon which became his favored weapon because thats what he used when he worshiped himself because... in a stable time loop?
Would explain where he went...
Met himself and exploded in a puff of logic, like matter meeting anti-matter!
The ripples of paradox from that meeting got pushed through space and time and were responsible for the Tunguska Blast, here on Earth.
His vestige has the favored weapon of 'tiny statue of myself holding a tiny statue of myself holding a tiny statue of myself holding a...'
argument on the subject of governmentI have to assume this is a euphemism.
Well it was for one of them.
......
... if you know what I'm sayin'.
EDIT: DANG it, Ross! Now I can't stop seeing it!
Aroden as a sword and board wizard makes history all the more awesome.
... if you know what I'm sayin'.
I always suspected that Aroden was just a full blown wizard, and now I have a better idea...
... if you know what I'm sayin'.
I love it when someone says "X" was "just" a full-blown wizard. He only had the power to make reality snap to his fingertips and a quick incantation.:)
Poor man.
... if you know what I'm sayin'.
Urgathoa - All you can eat buffet restaurant.
... if you know what I'm sayin'.
Good call on Shelyn and Pharasma.
... if you know what I'm sayin'.
We need more Gods whose temples are more than temples.
... if you know what I'm sayin'.
Abadar does banks and courthouses.
... if you know what I'm sayin'.
Cayden does bars.
... if you know what I'm sayin'.
To a lesser degree, Torag does forges (and he and Cayden probably share breweries and distilleries.)
... if you know what I'm sayin'.
Asmodeus also does courthouses.
... if you know what I'm sayin'.
Calistra brothels.
... if you know what I'-... no, wait, that one's pretty straight forward.
Warning. You won't read this thread the same way if you click the spoiler!
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Maybe Aroden inspired the concept of the magus & EK.