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What do you think about the Vital Strike Feat after the dice increase build? Does it make it worth it? I've looked up the critical feats and critical focus seems meh, and what you build that in to don't really come up until you're a seeker.
The common attitude is do not use Vital Strike. In the words of Admiral Ackbar, "It's a trap!" I have seen some builds make good use of it. A Stalwart chain fighter who planned on fighting defensively all the time for the DR. In that example the character was built with three other characters and they were taking excellent advantage of building around each other as a team.
The best of Vital Strike comes with about four feats. Vital, Imp, Greater, and Devastating for the bonus damage. In your case, that means 8 levels before you top out. You'll swing once each round (probably hit) crit 30% of the time and do 16d6+Damage Bonus for one swing. You get to do that once. 5% of the time you will always miss and do 0. The real bottom line is it reduces the chances you have of applying your Str and Power attack bonus each round and does not provide opportunities to still do damage if your first die roll failed. It works out better with a weapon that has a x4 or x3 multiplier, in my opinion.
It is a lot of damage. It has less forgiveness for bad luck and less damage potential then maximizing individual hits and using all of your iteratives. I don't think you'll ever feel bad using Vital Strike, except perhaps when you are smiting evil. You lose a lot of bonus damage from Smite Evil by only swinging once.
Power Attack + Str(1.5) + Smite Evil is a lot of damage to apply.
Also remember that the average damage on 4d6 = 14. Your bonus damage is much better. The more dice you roll, the more you will see average results. 16d6 looks great until you realize it's only 54. I have a level 7 character that can survive twice that. Once you look at what your damage bonuses give...
Let's say +6 str mod for a +9 to damage, Power attack at -2/+4(+6). A +1 weapon, maybe Deliquescent Gloves for 1d6 Acid damage and Divine Bond Weapon for an extra 1d6 fire from class feature. (Flaming burst is on that list, too, which helps with the good threat range on the Nodachi)
You are looking at 4d6(Enlarge/Lead Blades) +10+6+1+1d6+1d6.
Average = 14(4d6, this is what Vital Strike increases)+24(this gets added once) or 38 damage per hit. You're doing almost all of your real damage on those bonuses.
My suggestion is to only go with Vital Strike if you know you're going to spend most of your time only swinging once a round because of one reason or another. Such as a mobility build, (which you don't have the feats for anymore) or some tactics you specifically want to employ(Stalwart and Improved Stalwart which require two feats as pre-req, but would boost your DR to 10/- while fighting defensively).
If you are worried about losing your option to Full Attack, look at Pin Down(?) I think it is called. Also, Stand Still is more effective when you take up 2x2 on the grid. Just my take, though.
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I'm aware that Vital Striking is inferior to Full Attacking. My thought process was that Vital Strike was what I wanted to be doing when I couldn't full attack. I'm also kind of lost, it feels like so much of what I want to do is in my class features and gear that I don't really need very many feats. I'm not really sure what I want to be doing past 5.
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Look at things that stop you from being effective.
Out of reach? (Lunge)
Hit and Run enemies? (Step Up, Stand Still, etc..)
Firing from range? (Linebreaker trait)
Friendlies or terrain interfering? (Dragon Style)
At level 4 you are top of the world. You can definitely wait a few games and see what weaknesses crop up.
You can also add Merciful to your weapon, and combine that with Enforcer and the feat to replace Str with Cha for intimidate...you can walk around the battlefield stopping opponents with a single stroke. Nothing throws a GM off like drilling survivors when the stat block said "Fights to the death".
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I'm ineligible for most of the Step Up tree, Stand Stills prereq does nothing for me, and I don't think terrain/friendlies has typically been my problem.
Lunge seems like a likely pickup, maybe with another Extra LOH for Ultimate Mercy? I've heard much love for Ultimate Mercy on this forum, and I don't need a ton of feats for what I'm doing anyway.
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I don't think you can retrain into Fey Foundling, because you didn't get it at first level. I'll go looking for the thread/errata/FAQ I remember reading.
Heading to Ultimate Mercy gets you Greater Mercy, which is great on its own. If you don't need any mercies, you get another die of healing from LoH.
Edit: Ahhh, here it is:
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I was worried about that bit for Fey Foundling. Oh well. Guess I'll just have to live with it. I didn't pick up the book for the feat until last week anyway.
I like Greater Mercy well enough, although it's not as flashy as Ultimate. Although I guess I shouldn't complain about flashy when I've already taken Extra Lay on Hands.
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Watch out for Ultimate Mercy. It does use up 10 uses of LoH. So, either you have to save your LoH for that purpose, or your dead comrade has to wait a day or so until you can afford to use them all on him/her.
I find I really depend on my LoH for my 7th level paladin. I faced a mythic (agile) orc cleric, and I would have died on that second in-a-row full attack. Thanks Hero's Defiance!
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Unless there's some errata I don't know about, in PFS this will mostly circumvent the somatic cost of a Raise Dead on your party members. That in and of itself is worth considering, and beyond that if the extra person in a fight is worth all the negative levels, it might be worth it. But I'm not really planning to save them for that purpose. I also made some posts earlier about how I don't really like trading full attacks with things. Most of the time it seems better to take the AOO+Attack action rather than the full attack.
Getting conned out of all his cash to buy a cursed item as he couldn't make an easy Sense Motive- and now he's stuck with it.
-This is going to have to be expanded on. PFS is very careful about how it uses/abuses player cash. You cannot give it to others, they cannot steal it, NPC's cannot take it. What module was this level one character on? Which encounter in that module? I smell bull manure.
Like I said, SOMETIMES I play him a LITTLE Dim & Foolish. He's too wrapped up in himself and Magik! to always be sharp and wise.
He didn't say. He just said he got conned into buying a cursed item as his Sense Motive was crud. We all beleived him.
And, there's a Big Difference between having saying a Perc of +2 and having -2. Esp if the DM is asking for checks of DC 20. The difference being making them 20% of the time and never.
Comment about animal intelligence
Animal Intelligence : 1-2
Sentient Intelligence : 3+Minimum Value for Sentient : 3
Bonus for 3 : -4
Bonus for 7 : -2
Bonus for 10 : +0
As I sated, 7 is half-way between Minimum and Average, due to how the D20 system works, since we only ever use the INT BONUS, not the INT itself. That is, 1/2 = -5, 3/4 = -4, 5/6 = -3, and so on. Ergo, the actual number is really beside the point. The Bonus is the thing, and mechanically, 7 is exactly halfway between 3 and 10 (-4*0.5 = -2, -2 + 2 = 0).
So what I said was accurate. While 7 is 5 pts greater than 2, it's irrelevant.
Animal Intelligence : 1-2
Sentient Intelligence : 3+Minimum Value for Sentient : 3
Bonus for 3 : -4
Bonus for 7 : -2
Bonus for 10 : +0As I sated, 7 is half-way between Minimum and Average, due to how the D20 system works, since we only ever use the INT BONUS, not the INT itself. That is, 1/2 = -5, 3/4 = -4, 5/6 = -3, and so on. Ergo, the actual number is really beside the point. The Bonus is the thing, and mechanically, 7 is exactly halfway between 3 and 10 (-4*0.5 = -2, -2 + 2 = 0).
So what I said was accurate. While 7 is 5 pts greater than 2, it's irrelevant.
mdt:
I would disagree. While mechanically you're correct, in talking about "brain power" from a "fluff" aspect, I would think every digit counts. If you look at strength, ever number is more lifting power. That being the case we have to assume that every stat is the same even if the other are significantly less quantifiable.|
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@mdt: You do not think there's a difference between 6 and 7? If I understand your stance correctly, then you are saying that because the modifier is the same, there is no systemic difference between a 6 and a 7. Because there is no systemic difference there should be no difference in portrayal.
I do not agree with that.
My stance is that just because my modifier is the same does not mean my character is exactly as smart as another character with the same modifier but one attribute point lower. I receive no systemic benefits, but my character is smarter, as evidenced by the greater numeric rating, as well as the reduced effort to gain a higher modifier. Consider it the difference between a student who gets B-/B's on average as opposed to the one who gets B/B+'s. They are both B-level students, but one usually does a little better.
@DrDeth: There's little practical difference between making a roll 15%(or 1/7) of the time and never making it. I realize you like the idea that you at least have a chance of succeeding, however slim. A lot of people feel that way and it's okay. It's just not a character-killing flaw, which is the attitude I take exception with. I don't mind if you want to advocate perception, which is a good skill. However, if a character can survive a failed perception check, then why push the issue past that? Characters are more likely to expire from failed saving throws than from failed perception checks.
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...and then he hit 2nd-level, and acquired Divine Grace. At 4rd, he's immune to fear. By 5th, his will-save was +2 higher than the average melee with a 12 wisdom. Not to mention that being a paladin means you're surrounded by lots of helpful auras, and are eventually immune to fear.You gave this same advice to a newbie wanting to play his first PC as a Paladin. You suggested a 7 Wis. The poor guy spent his first game:To the OP:
1. Your stats are fine -- in fact, I recommend ignoring anyone complaining about dump stats, because PFS is (usually) a hack & slash campaign....
And in my three campaigns, none are "hack & slash"
IOW, you're not GMing PFS, which was what the newbie was making a character for, and what the thread subject title concerns.
mdt:
I would disagree. While mechanically you're correct, in talking about "brain power" from a "fluff" aspect, I would think every digit counts. If you look at strength, ever number is more lifting power. That being the case we have to assume that every stat is the same even if the other are significantly less quantifiable.
10 - 3 = 7
7/2 = 3.5
3 + 3.5 = 6.5
7 is halfway between the minimum allowed intelligence, and the average intelligence.
it's half as smart as the average person.
It's twice as smart as the most minimally animalistic human.
Even from a fluff standpoint, it's an idiot score.
I don't care if you disagree, the numbers and fluff back it up.
@mdt: You do not think there's a difference between 6 and 7? If I understand your stance correctly, then you are saying that because the modifier is the same, there is no systemic difference between a 6 and a 7. Because there is no systemic difference there should be no difference in portrayal.
I do not agree with that.
My stance is that just because my modifier is the same does not mean my character is exactly as smart as another character with the same modifier but one attribute point lower. I receive no systemic benefits, but my character is smarter, as evidenced by the greater numeric rating, as well as the reduced effort to gain a higher modifier. Consider it the difference between a student who gets B-/B's on average as opposed to the one who gets B/B+'s. They are both B-level students, but one usually does a little better.
You can disagree with it all you want. There is no measurable difference between 6 and 7 within the system. Same applies to 8 and 9. The only one where there is is 3 and 2, and there is only a difference there because while both have the same modifier, 2 is an animal, and 3 is sentient.
Mechanically, your 7 might be slightly smarter than a 6, but all it will come down to is that your 7 can probably figure out that the square root of 16 is 4 slightly faster than the 6. It does not mean that your 7 is mechanically smarter, it clearly doesn't, as your skills will be the same as the 6, both in points and level. It just means you're likely to be a bit faster at figuring out than the other one does. Something that isn't 'in game' it's fluff, much like the difference between 6 and 7.
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I'm aware that Vital Striking is inferior to Full Attacking. My thought process was that Vital Strike was what I wanted to be doing when I couldn't full attack.Bingo. We have a winner.
The best use of VS is by an Enlarged 2hPA fighter who has to move to attack (and is denied a charge).
The best use of VS is by a T-rex. for almost everyone else it is not worth the investment, certainly not a class that doesn't get a ton of bonus feats like the paladin.
Sure things like weapon focus, iron will, and the like don't look 'awesome', but in all honesty they deliver far more and far better than Vital strike.
I normally don't give any of those to a paladin. But VS isn't worse; and is an awesome combat feat for those "now you suck" situations (by-the-numbers better than Power Attack before BAB16 in certain situations).
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Krul, Pathfinder paladins don't use wisdom for spells like 3rd-edition; and characters retire upon leveling to 13th in PFS.
An INT:7 human paladin who takes HP is getting just 2 skillpoints per level, meaning Diplo and Ride and zilch else. DEX 10 means you're a slow-moving spamcan with a -7 armor-check penalty (good luck making those Acrobatics checks).
The following build rocks for PFS chaladins:
STR:14
DEX:14
CON:14 or 12
INT:12 or 14 (if desiring Combat Expertise for a turtle role)
WIS:07
CHA+17 (all advances)
Traits: Dangerously Curious, Accelerated Drinker
Feat: Quick Draw, (anything else)
Equipment: four-mirror armor, light quickdraw shield, longsword, bardiche, javelins, bandolier
Survive to 2nd-level for Divine Grace, and your will save is immediately as good as a WIS:12 human fighter's.
Mid-level equipment: mithral breastplate (which maxes out a +2 DEX bump to your belt), MW STR+3 composite longbow, Pearl of Power 1 (several), various magical trigger items.
Mid-level feats: add Mounted Combat, Power Attack, (anything else)
Weaknesses: not exactly a melee powerhouse of destruction versus non-evil (you're still better than a cleric, however)
Benefits: 30' move (in MBP), adaptable switch-hitter and ranged combatant who never misses a full-attack provided he can see the enemy. Four or five skillpoints per level (enough to max out Diplo, Ride, Sense Motive, and scatter the rest around into Handle Animal, etc).
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Though make note that this is currently a PFS character, so his attributes are static (with the exception of the Attribute Point at Level 4). Moreover, it will take a bunch of Pretiege (which he has a very limited amount) to change his Feats. It takes 5 Pretiege to change a feat. If the OP completes each mission with maximum Prestiege, at level 4, he would have 18-22 Prestiege, dependant on how many missions at Level 4 completed.