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Silver Crusade

As with all games, do what works for your table. If it makes your gang happy, then don't worry about the internet peoples.

Silver Crusade

Just a side note here.:

I'm pretty sure what CWheezy is referring to is this section from the Combat Rules. Specifically under Table:Actions in Combat - Free actions.
Drop to the floor. There are other references to dropping prone being a free action if I recall correctly.

The argument being that a nauseated person should be capable of collapsing.

The only real counter is that the technicality of the rules prevent a free action, even a very reasonable one, from being taken.

Silver Crusade

I understand the confusion surrounding Bloodline Development
The wording is awkward, for certain.

Bloodline Development:
The arcanist selects one sorcerer bloodline upon taking this exploit. The arcanist gains that bloodline's 1st-level bloodline power as though she were a 1st-level sorcerer. The arcanist must select an ordinary bloodline with this ability, not one altered by an archetype. As a swift action, the arcanist can expend 1 point from her arcane reservoir to bolster her latent nature, allowing her to treat her arcanist level as her sorcerer level for the purpose of using this ability, which lasts for a number of rounds equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1). She does not gain any other abilities when using this exploit in this way, such as bloodline arcana or those bloodline powers gained at 3rd level or higher. If this ability is used to gain an arcane bond and a bonded item is selected, the arcanist can only use that item to cast spells of a level equal to the level of spell that could be cast by her equivalent sorcerer level (limiting her to 1st level spells unless she spends a point from her arcane reservoir). If the arcanist already has a bloodline (or gains one later), taking this exploit instead allows her arcanist levels to stack with the levels of the class that granted her access to the bloodline when determining the powers and abilities of her bloodline.

Bloodline Development wrote:
The arcanist selects one sorcerer bloodline upon taking this exploit. The arcanist gains that bloodline's 1st-level bloodline power as though she were a 1st-level sorcerer. The arcanist must select an ordinary bloodline with this ability, not one altered by an archetype.[...]If the arcanist already has a bloodline (or gains one later), taking this exploit instead allows her arcanist levels to stack with the levels of the class that granted her access to the bloodline when determining the powers and abilities of her bloodline.

It certainly appears to me that the frequent use of the singular and the specific wording against archetype-modified bloodlines reinforces the point that you cannot have multiple bloodlines all gaining power from this exploit.

To put it in perspective, a Sorcerer has to take a very heavy hit to its effectiveness just to pick up Crossblooded. Arguably it makes the class a far inferior caster than without. (See class guides for details.) To gain that effect without penalty is beyond the scope of a feat equivalent type power.

Finally, Eldritch Heritage does not give you a bloodline. It grants you a specific bloodline power. It costs you two feats and a stat minimum to do so. (Again, reinforcing that Bloodline Development is powerful enough without affecting multiple bloodlines.)

Silver Crusade

Rylden wrote:
Bladebound Magus cant get familiars so the dips into classes for the familiar doesnt help at all.

You are absolutely correct. I had completely forgotten. Thanks for catching that.

Silver Crusade

According to The RulesTM you can lift overhead your maximum load. At Strength 26, that's 920 lbs. So if the demon has a bonus to strength or an ally assisting, it'll work out. No reason to argue this point further.

As for the Vat Of Hot Burning Death...

The numbers provided as our base, you can assume that exposure (2d6) is an approximate 10% of your body compared to immersion(20d6). Stick with the game sizes and say 5x5x5 to immerse a character. Well, we're clearly not discussing that large a quantity of lava (cheers John Compton for the search results), so full immersion is right out. We'll say roughly 1/4 to 1/3 of the character can get doused. 1/4 or 1/3 of 20d6 = 5d6-6d6. Splash damage adjacent 5-6 and then victims burn until a save is made or for a set period of time. It's a pretty fair way to estimate within the constraints of the rules.

It should probably turn the floor into difficult terrain for a few rounds while it cools.


Additional Rules wrote:
Bigger and Smaller Creatures: The figures on Table: Carrying Capacity are for Medium bipedal creatures. A larger bipedal creature can carry more weight depending on its size category, as follows: Large ×2, Huge ×4, Gargantuan ×8, Colossal ×16. A smaller creature can carry less weight depending on its size category, as follows: Small ×3/4, Tiny ×1/2, Diminutive ×1/4, Fine ×1/8.

If the Demon is Large then you can adjust the load, but you're still well under enough weight to lift a 5x5x5 cube to immerse.

Silver Crusade

I came across this while looking at grappling options for a character. Just another alternative, but less lethal (if that's of any interest).
Sleeper Hold

Silver Crusade

If casting isn't the problem, she's just not feeling the Magus selections, you could look into an Evoker. Admixture is a great blaster benefit as it allows you to adapt your memorized spells more simply. A greensting scorpion would give her a nice boost in Initiative on top of her Dex and the +1DC is good. Taking a Mage's Tattoo for Evocation would make up for the lost CL in Magus.

Dimensional Agility as a chain will change the feel of combat significantly. It might be more to her liking to "bamf" around like Nightcrawler.

If casting spells is what's getting boring, then I still suggest levels of Fighter or something similar. BAB gets a nice boost, the bonus feats can be used to learn Improved(Maneuver)s and she can break out of the spell combat rotation as she likes. Agile Maneuvers should help keep her CMB high enough to tackle moderate foes and crowd control minions. Dirty Trick alone has a lot of mileage in it. Pick the appropriate debuff for the opponent and the circumstance.
Eldritch Guardian is a nice blend, since you can get that familiar (make it improved if you like so it can use wands, too!) and vastly up your action economy. Unfortunately you lose the two bonus feats at 1st and 2nd. (Meaning you'd have to spend the Level 15 feat for Improved and lose out on the Level 16 feat, but in exchange your familiar can use your combat feats (like Dirty Trick, if you hadn't just spent the feats on a cool familiar...)

In the end, just let her see what sparks that old lovin' feelin'. Identify what feels stale and look for ways to avoid or modify it with a little caliente.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

@Wolflord: I'm glad you got some ideas and advice to help diffuse the party situation. I wanted to touch on the points where we disagree to explain why I felt the way I did. It's certainly up to your team and the GM to assess the best approach and solutions.


Wolflord wrote:

I disagree, to quote your quote:"For one, blasphemy simply means 'THE ACT or offense of speaking...'" The Cavalier ACTED against his religious principles, as he follows Cayden's edicts (not that he couldn't be lying as you cover later with the questioning topic).

It's just the dictionary definition. I read and understand that to mean "the act of speaking against". Considering the etymology is essentially utterance/talk/speech, I feel I am justified in that interpretation. The term offense is added to indicate that in some areas there are actual laws against blasphemy. (Used to be here, too.) It's okay if you guys run it differently. I just objected to the term. I'm a nerd, I do that sometimes.

Wolflord wrote:
Again, the Cavalier was religious and has openly said it throughout the campaign... and the DM said specifically no additional magic was detected (I had detect magic active)

My point about non-religious is not about lacking in belief. It is about belief being a core mechanic to the character. Certain character classes have built in connections to the gods and collect benefits from that connection but also suffer consequences when they violate that trust by acting against the gods' will. Assigning those consequences to just anyone who puts a god's name on their character sheet provides the same penalty but none of the benefits. This is what I meant about non-religious. Perhaps a better term to use should have been Non-devotional?

Wolflord wrote:
When did I say the orc got punished? I will pass that tid-bit along regarding the sorcerer.
Wolflord wrote:
(the half orc got a slap on the wrist).

I was just wondering why there any repercussions at all. No big deal since they were clearly minor.

Silver Crusade

Cyrad wrote:
I have a player who's a 14th level bladebound magus. However, none of the magus abilities beyond that level appeal to her. She isn't a fan of any of the 6th level magus spells and none of the magus arcana appeal to her. She's not sure where to go from here.

If the abilities don't appeal, I assume it's not because "these aren't good", but instead "I don't want to do those things".

The challenge is that after 14 levels, it is a little bit late to dip out significantly and change the way your character plays.

Perhaps she should dip into Fighter and pick up some combat maneuver benefits? Those can significantly change the way a character interacts with the game. Reposition, Bull Rush, Dirty Trick, whatever it is, you can play with a different toy for a while. (Dimensional movement feats and Bull Rush is pretty hilarious. Then again, I just find Bull Rush to be entertaining in general.)

Without having a good idea how the character is built it's not easy to offer new pathways to take it. Just spend some time seeing what the player finds interesting now and see how you can fit that in.

Silver Crusade

Wolflord wrote:

So the problem is that even with the warnings of a good aligned cleric, 2 neutral characters continued to try and put a corpse onto an unholy shrine to an obviously un-aligned god while refusing consultation. The DM is adjusting the cavalier and sorcerers alignments to the corresponding "evil" side of the alignment chart for committing blatant disrespect and blasphemy, and poor role playing (the half orc got a slap on the wrist).

My first question is did the dm handle this appropriately?

I don't think so. Let's break it down...

Wolflord wrote:

  • The half orc barbarian who lacks intelligence wanted to try and resurrect the rogue by putting him on the evil alter and praying
  • I interfered and dragged the corpse onto the floor.
  • The halfling Cavalier who worships Cayden Cailen proceeded to try putting the rogue back up while arguing that this act is honorable and if he resurrected as an evil being we would simply kill him again.
  • I tried to punch him, missed
  • then weapons were drawn.
  • The half-orc was put to sleep,
  • the halfling was knocked out and stabilized,
  • the sorcerer was grappled by the half orc when he woke up, ending the dispute.

All I see is a party tantrum.

For one, blasphemy simply means "the act or offense of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk." Which in a fantasy setting, blasphemy is talking shit about people's gods, not doing bad stuff. The evil altar is not blasphemous to the clerics who put it there, it is a place of sacred meaning. If someone compared a good aligned god to an evil god, that might be blasphemy (on both sides). So the charge itself is unwarranted.

Wolflord wrote:
the problem is that even with the warnings of a good aligned cleric, 2 neutral characters continued to try and put a corpse onto an unholy shrine to an obviously un-aligned god while refusing consultation

Two party members ignoring a better informed party member is not at all unusual in larger groups and role play settings. Especially with folks who like to play miscreants and troublemakers in the mix.

Dropping the Hammer of God on them is excessive and unwarranted. Those characters were not religious, so the evil god may have been hoping for a convert, for instance, and given them a blessing if nothing else. (I shudder at the fate of the poor rogue being offered up as a sacrifice.) Also, religion and gods is only critical to those who commit a life to the study of that pursuit. Paladins and Clerics, for instance, suffer consequences when they go against the belief structure of their deity. Others, from a god's standpoint, is just a potential follower. Events or encounters could change that any time. (A small town ranger is off doing his business, then returns to find everything he loves slaughtered. The ranger stops following a good deity who 'let that happen', and instead follows a dark one to pursue a bloody revenge.)
So non-religion centered classes shouldn't get slammed on for being stupid about religion. It would be smarter for the dark god to offer them a bite of the (poisoned) apple. Encourage them to do worse and more often until...well look at that, you're an anti-paladin.

The real issue is character and player dynamics and respect within the group.

I never saw what the Sorcerer did (I guess supported the Cavalier?) and it sounds like the Half-Orc listened to your advice and tried to stop the others because "the expert said it's not a good idea".

Why punish the Half-Orc at all? Why divinely punish any of the non-religious characters at all? Have the party sort it out internally.
For instance, put up a Zone of Truth or something better and rigorously question the two characters. Since you incapacitated the characters, have them bound and without any gear. Do they serve the enemy? Have they been in league the whole time? Why were they so eager to make a sacrifice to evil god? Why did they want to kill the rogue twice if he came back evil? Was it part of some plot? Who else was involved? Make it a real grilling and write up questions before hand so you can remember. Take notes of their answers and ask the same questions again in different ways.

The other party members can then have a conference as to whether or not they trust the characters after that and decide whether or not they'll continue to adventure with them or perhaps even turn them over to the authorities. This may waste half a session or more, but it will be the characters responding to the inappropriate character actions, not the players and the GM responding to the inappropriate characters. Keeping it in game helps mollify feelings and gives the players a sense that it's not just the GM being a jerk, or someone picking on a particular character. Further, you get the rest of the group's input, which should definitely matter in a situation like this.

Because it broke out into inter-party violence, I can't condone just slapping them around and moving along. Player/Character tensions that bad will definitely erupt worse later on and get characters killed and players' feelings very hurt. Possibly a table flip moment.

Silver Crusade

Let me see if I understand what you're suggesting.

Group A plays in time slot A. Does things. You record the things.
Group A runs out of time and the players leave. Characters remain at Point A.

Group B arrives and plays in time slot B. They do things. You record the things. Group B has run out of time and the players leave. Characters remain at Point B.

It's fairly easy if Groups A and B progress within a fair margin and have predictable answers to challenges.

So, what I want to know is, how do you plan on handling it when Group A has arrived somewhere that Group B technically should have already been and changed in some way?

Generally speaking, adventures are written as a one-group event and many of the encounters and challenges don't reset, and some of the scripted events have permanent results. Unless the groups are physically playing at the same time, coordinating activities fairly is not possible.

If you're just going sequentially and marking down some changes for later groups, regardless of their actual progress, then you might as well just run the same adventure separately for each group. Later groups get a less fair shake on the adventure content otherwise while earlier groups get a more 'pristine' environment to explore.

Silver Crusade

If the explicit legality of it matters (house ruling is fine if you ask me, but the implications can be much broader...) then to put it most simply:

If the item is being used by another character it is not in your possession unless you are both using it together.

If you are incapacitated you are unable to take possession of anything and unable to use anything.

There would be some very rare exceptions to these rules.


Some Scenarios:

Rogue pilfer's an alchemists Mutagen. Rogue later pours it into Alchemist's beer. Alchemist suddenly goes Mutant when drinking his beer.
Target Bomb Admixture gets poured into a Healing Potion. Alchemist drinks the healing potion and suddenly has an extra buff.
Three allies all hold onto an inert, but prepared, extract. They all ready actions to pour down the alchemist's throat. Alchemist tips down one extract and at the same time allies tip down the rest. Alchemist now has four active effects in a single round.

Silver Crusade

I am a big fan of persistent. You should definitely accommodate for spell resistance as early as level 7 but no later than 10.

Intensified Spell Can be very good to keep low level damage relevant. 10d4 Magic Missile, for instance.

In terms of adding more tricks to pull out of your hat Reach is one of my favorite and entire builds have been based on []Rime[/url].

There are a lot of good options. Most of my favorites are +1's, but I rarely play blasters. If you stick with your crafting then you shouldn't have any trouble accruing a bag of tricks that keeps on giving and surprising.

It would probably behoove you to pick up some equipment enhancements so you can manipulate your stash with little trouble.
Quick Draw and wands on a bandolier will keep you cycling through your wands nice and easy.
The Handy Haversack prevents AoO's and keeps your weight down on those rods. In fact, unless it's a full round action, you can fetch the rod(Move), cast the spell(Standard), and Shift(Swift) away.

Lastly, as the Oracle wants to do summoning and you're not really interested (from what you mentioned earlier) just let the Oracle do it and save your turns for other stuff. You can always offer advice as the situations arise. Chances are the player will appreciate a few pointers anyway.

Silver Crusade

Here's a Level 2 sample if that will help (Very generic)
With some jiggery-pokery about the traits/archetypes/race/feats you can greatly enhance and tweak this. I just thought you might like an idea.

I would usually suggest mixing classes up to Alchemist 4 for the second discovery and then sticking to Barbarian after that. Half-Orc has some good advantages with Sacred Tattoos and Shaman's apprentice. The +1 saves and Endurance feat are quite good and can be used to build feat chains later if you want. To be honest, though, Pathfinder usually arranges it so most races can play most classes competently, so if something doesn't really grab you, look around for something else that might.

Barbarian 1/Alchemist 1:

Stats-----Base--Pts--Race--Total = 15pts

Drunken Brute/Alchemist
Level 2
Speed 30 (20 with medium armor)
12 Skill pts and large access to skill pool
HP: ~20
Rage 6rds* & Mutagen 10min
[ur=*Raging Drunk[/url]
2 Extracts
2 Bombs (1d6+1)

BAB +1 (+4 Str) (+3 Power Attacking)
Fort: +4 (+6 Con)
Ref: +2 (+4 Dex)
Will: +0 (-2 Wis)
Weapons: Simple/Martial + Bomb
Armors: Simple/Martial/Shields(Not Tower)
CMB: +4
CMD: 16

Power Attack
Improved Bull Rush

Great Axe

Raging + Enlarge + Mutagen
HP ~24
Str: 26 (+4R/+4M/+2L)
Dex: 12 (-2 Large)
Con: 18 (+4 Rage)
Int: 10 (-2 Mutagen)

Attack: +8 (Power Attack)
Dmg: 3d6+15 (Power Attack and Large)
Reach 10 (Extract:Long Arm? 15)
AC: 15 (Large and Rage)(Extract:Shield? 19)
Fort: +8
Ref: +3
Will: +0 (Rage)
CMB: +9
CMD: 21


  • Drink to maintain Rage instead of using round limit
  • Very High damage output, but adjustable to scale for threat level
  • Only one poor save
  • Versatile out of combat and in combat skill choices
  • Can Buff and fight at the same time
  • Can hold extracts in reserve until needed, or occasionally brew later
  • Bonuses stack with Enhancement bonuses (Bull's Strength, Belts, etc)
  • Extracts do not use Arcane Failure
  • Versatile selection of Extracts to accommodate broad range of situations
  • Great potential reach to seriously shutdown battlefield movement
  • Bullrush sends foes flying, even into each other, with hilarious results.
  • Access to Discoveries and Rage powers
  • Highly resistant to opponent maneuvers
  • HP advancement still above average fighter over career

  • Limited number and progression of extracts.
  • Points spent into Intelligence could have been put elsewhere
  • Slower movement than other Barbarian types
  • Terrible will save without equipment and buffs
  • Susceptible (because of will save) to occasional mind control or crowd control effects.
  • May wipe party as GM giggles (see above)
  • BAB slightly worse than full martial class
  • Will never have the best AC and must plan to take a few hits

By the time you get around to incorporating the Eldritch Heritage feats they become cherries on the whoopass cream pie. Very tasty, blood-covered cherries, smothered in the rich, chocolaty, pain and violent death of your foes.

Silver Crusade

@Rogar Valertis:

Rogar Valertis wrote:

-Orc racials are +4str and -2int/-2wis/-2cha.

-Why are people referring to sorcerer bloodlines? Bloodragers have their own different set of bloodlines and unless I'm mistaken you can't mix them without resorting to feats.

-Eldritch Heritage allows you to get the first level of the orc bloodline from the sorcerer list, sure, but you can't progress. Besides in order to meet the prerequisites for Eldritch Heritage with an orc you'll need to spend 7 points at creation. Considering how this is a character on a 15 points buy that would leave it with 8 points to spend in other abilities and the OP wants a character able to dish a lot of damage in melee and survive, which means it needs good phisical stats, and dumping int and wisdom to 07 (or 05 in the orc case) is something I would never suggest. In real play having low wis means an early tpk against anyone with good enchantment spells, unless the GM decides to totally pull on his punches.

I assume by "people" you mean me. And I refer to it because the title was Maximizing Strength and the class mentioned was Barbarian. Combining Barbarian and Alchemist is a way to get phenomenal amounts of strength fairly easily. Bloodrager is a good class. I don't see any reason to argue that point and have not. Barbarian/Alchemist is a different approach. It's okay to have more than one approach and present options.

I agree that going straight Orc is not optimal. I wouldn't have chosen it either. 15 points is indeed a difficult build, especially since it costs 17 points to get a single 18. The GM clearly is trying to get his players to spread their points around more than going top-heavy in one category.

Multi-classing a stat-starved build can be very difficult, especially when other classes that add complimentary benefits tend to use different mechanisms. Also, you may have failed to click on the Improved Eldritch Heritage link I provided which shows you can select the Level 3 or 9 power. (+4 Strength if you choose, when you select it.)

By Combining a few carefully chosen Archetypes between Barbarian and Alchemist you can get some excellent synergy with very efficient action economy. Mutagens and Extracts can all be drunk as a move action while surrounded by enemies to safely provide instant benefits before attacking or recovery after. These are good options to consider.

While the Bloodrager gets access to the bloodlines and can spontaneously cast, he has to sacrifice his action to do so, which reduces the amount of physical attacking that happens, Buffs the character has to spend a turn applying instead of attacking reduce combat effectiveness. Sure, there are some great advantages. I'm not insulting the Bloodrager class or those who prefer it.

When I read this:

Ade Eda wrote:


I am new at pathfinder. I always play RP as a front-man fighter. The fearless and furious mountain of muscles. The man able to behead a horse at a single blow. Kill someone more by brutal force than refined technique. As you can see in this video. He kill horse by brutal force. This is my main idea of the build. Muscular warrior with one big weapon.

And this:

Ade Eda wrote:


basic 18 str, Orc(+4str),babar(+4str/few rounds), alchemist(+4str/10min)=22(+6)static, 30(+10) occasional.
Possible max BAB with this build: 5.
Feat???(maybe cleave to deal with group of weak enemies or something, power attack,...)

I stayed close to the original idea with easy to incorporate advantages when presenting options.

Perhaps that clears up your questions?

Silver Crusade

Letric wrote:

Great suggestions. Didn't even think about Selective Spell. At a time I was going to pick up Craft rod, but in all honestly I wasn't even sure I have the time to craft so many things, so with the money I save from other feats I can afford more rods.

A Orb was on my list, but that selective Rod is just amazing. I'll still be able to use bad 1 level spells like Color Spray and don't care much about my allies.

Glad to help. Be careful though, the Rod only works a few times per day.

Metamagic Rods wrote:
Possession of a metamagic rod does not confer the associated feat on the owner, only the ability to use the given feat a specified number of times per day.

Metamagic Rod, Selective

Metamagic Rod, Selective wrote:
The wielder can cast up to three spells per day as though using the Selective Spell feat. For each spell, he can select up to four creatures of his choice within the area that are unaffected.

This is only a stop-gap or shoring up method. You'll need the feats or a lot of rods to use it freely.

Also, don't worry about making the summons "effective". You can focus on battlefield control and never pick up a summon and do just fine.

If you do pick up a summon here and there, it can provide a flanking buddy or just some minions to hold off the front line. One of the best features of Summons is the ability to summon D# of a lower level type. This just puts bodies on the field in your defense. It's fine if they get run over. Those rounds the enemy wasn't hitting your friends or you. A few 25gp scrolls of Summon Monster 1 will block charge lines, flank, or pinprick damage until you get something more meaningful and won't clog up your prepared spell lists.

Silver Crusade

@Ade Edah: This is what it will cost you to get the Eldritch Heritage line of feats into Strength...

Because of your build, I suggest sticking with Orc. It's relevant to your concept as described (Orc SMASH!), and it provides some really great benefits that aren't overlapped by your other abilities. This is the breakdown.

Looking at Eldritch Heritage we can see that you need a pre-requisite of Skill Focus in the Bloodline's bonus skill. So we check the Bloodline. It looks like you need Skill Focus(Survival) in order to get started. Anytime after Level 3 you can get Eldritch Heritage once you have Skill Focus (and a 13 Charisma).

Since Rage adds a morale bonus to stats, and Touch of Rage adds a morale bonus to directly to attack and damage, these benefits overlap to create a fairly monstrous addition to your outgoing damage. Further, you can use the Bloodline ability when you're otherwise unable to Rage, or to shore up an ally with some buffs.

By the time you reach Level 11 you'll want to have an effective Charisma of 15 and pick up (at 11 exactly if possible) Improved Eldritch Heritage for the bonus to Strength. This is where you're done. Just let the bonuses continue to scale as you level.

If your GM will allow you to buy equipment, then you can afford to start off with an 11 Charisma, then purchase a +2 Charisma item (You shouldn't have too much competition for those slots.) This will get you the 13 you need for your first Heritage feat. Later you can upgrade that to a +4 item before also upgrading that feat to Improved.

If you can manage a 12 Intelligence, then Alchemist extracts can be priceless as a barbarian because of this one archetype: Drunken Brute.

Drunken Brute wrote:
While raging, the drunken brute can drink a potion, or a tankard of ale or similar quantity of alcohol, as a move action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

This allows you to consume your potions/extracts with little to no risk and without losing your action to attack. (This can be funny when you enlarge and push someone else into your ally's pit. It's hilarious when you accidentally fall in, too.) Seriously, though, a lot of really good options are found in low level spells. Enlarge Person, Expeditious Retreat, Firebelly, Long Arm, Shield, and those are just a few of the combat ones.

You can further fortify your save weaknesses with Fortified Drinker. Which has an amazing effect and duration for a trait.

Silver Crusade

Qaianna wrote:
As far as being the first who slays all enemies? Well, get 12 barbarian levels, and you too can join the many who have Come and Get Me as a rage power. Enemies get +4 to hit and to hurt you ... as long as they don't mind triggering an attack of opportunity FROM YOU to do so.

You'll need several Attacks of Opportunity to make this effective. Usually a high Dexterity and Combat Reflexes to go the easiest route.

Silver Crusade

Schiffer wrote:

I recently got a "mask of 1000 tombs" which gives me a +10 on all knowledge checks, but has no eye sockets, so I need a way to see.

Yes, I can always take off the mask in combat, but it would be way cooler if I kept the mask on imo

Sure, that cool factor is going to require some jiggery-pokery, however. Blind is not the worst possible condition, but it's up there for effects you can cause an opponent, creating a floor you must reach before you can. Likewise the solutions to it aren't simple and usually require some expense.

Here's a short list of items:
A Crown
An Eye
Some Fish
And seriously, you should look into the Divination spells of you can cast or wands that mimic them.

Silver Crusade

The Synthesist basically turns the Eidolon from the summoner into living bio-armor. It significantly ups your stats and provides some other benefits, too.

You can also pick This Bloodline's Power with This Feat Chain to get an inherent bonus to Strength. +4 when you buy it and +6 later.

It costs 3 feats to get that far and has some Charisma requirements (I suggest an 11 Cha to start and using a +4 Enhancement item to finish up.) If you buy the Charisma up and invest skills you can also use Intimidate to do some pretty wicked stuff on the battlefield, which would seem to go thematically with your approach.

[Edit]Also, you can pick up one of my favorite abilities in the game, Body Bludgeon form being a Barbarian, and the Archetype Drunken Brute to synchronize well with your Alchemist.

Silver Crusade

I think what you're looking for is a buckler. It's not great, it adds a -1 penalty, specifically let's cast spells, but you can enchant it as a shield. You might also want to look into The Eldritch Knight prestige. It is basically a wizard with a sword that loses one level of spellcasting. In return you get some neat advantages but are still basically a wizard with reinforced combat potential. Improved Familiar gets you more action economy if you pick a familiar with hands to use your wands for you.

Silver Crusade

Ah, my mistake.
You'll need Still Spell To wield a sword, a shield, and cast a spell. Skirnir loses Spell combat, so it's irrelevant for that archetype, but for the rest it should prevent failure altogether. That costs +1 spell level, so it's not viable across the board.

I'm still not sure what your goal would be to go sword&board. There are plenty of ways to tease around certain objectives. Like quick draw if you need the extra AC for a round or two, and then put back for a chance to cast again.

Silver Crusade

The Sorcerer'sArchetype Chart near the bottom shows you which features are altered. Everything about the Bloodlines is altered for Crossblooded.

The Magus usually gets a lot more confusing (though not as bad as grappling) for groups during combat. Just make sure you read up the FAQ for Ultimate Magic and spend some time really getting familiar with your build.

Skirnir says directly that you do not suffer arcane failure, even with tower shields, at level 1.

I'm not sure why you'd want to be a Skirnir, though, since you lose pretty much everything that makes a Magus powerful. Especially the action economy which allows you to cast spells and fight in the same round while buffing yourself with swift actions as the situation demands. Magus also makes excellent use of the Dimensional movement feats later on. With a dip into Evocation specialization as a Wizard you can trade one type of energy for another to avoid resistance and immunity or take advantage of weakness.

Silver Crusade

@Zeooh: It would be instead of this function, you get to simply advance in bloodline powers. Again, if your GM and table wants to run it differently, then that's up to you. I'm not here to tell you how you must play.

Bloodline Development wrote:
As a swift action, the arcanist can expend 1 point from her arcane reservoir to bolster her latent nature, allowing her to treat her arcanist level as her sorcerer level for the purpose of using this ability, which lasts for a number of rounds equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1). She does not gain any other abilities when using this exploit in this way, such as bloodline arcana or those bloodline powers gained at 3rd level or higher.

And the caveat...

Bloodline Development wrote:
The arcanist must select an ordinary bloodline with this ability, not one altered by an archetype.

Which Cross-blooded is.

Again, it's your table. You guys just need to do what's fun for the gang you play with. Just remember that once you start crafting Immovable Rods along with your other items, things just start going nuts. The sheer versatility of well chosen items is going to be very difficult to stop and often require custom rules decisions on the spot.

[edited for clarity]

Silver Crusade

@Zeoh Yes I read the bottom half of the feat, too. That doesn't change the very first line of the exploit. As written you select one. If your character has access to one (or more) then you get to use your levels to advance that (single) bloodline you chose.

It's your game, so if your GM and you are comfortable not playing it as written, that's okay.

I would like to point out that a Sorcerer takes a serious hit to get Cross-blooded and access two bloodlines. (Arguably it creates a vastly inferior caster. Look at the Sorcerer Guides for details.) Being able to access and advance them both for essentially one feat equivalent, and only by dipping one level is a bit much. Comparable access is through Eldritch Heritage, which requires four feats as I recall.

Silver Crusade

Rub-Eta wrote:
Since you're a first-time player, I also have to point out that playing a spell caster is a hard thing to do. You should probably ignore my previous advice about playing a crafting wizard, since it's about the hardest thing to play (so much to keep track of). Though that's not to say that you shouldn't play a spell caster, it's really fun. Though you should know that it does take a lot. It will be rewarding if you're able to invest yourself. It will be very boring and irritating if not.

^ Kind of this. Crafting Casters are pretty much the most broken thing in the game. With a little time to prepare and swap around equipment, the party can pretty much guarantee it will rarely if ever be caught in a clutch. Unless the GM is prepared to carefully manage your character, then the items available will quickly get away from him. Even if he forces you to personally craft every item for the party, the opportunity to make made-to-order sets of gear is going to significantly change the way the game provides challenges. As long as your GM is prepared for that, then the character should be fine. You clearly have enough interest to read associated powers and look for synergies, so I think you'll be alright no matter how you go.

Silver Crusade

Looking over Bloodline Development it would appear there are some misunderstandings. Maybe I didn't correctly read your process, but....

Bloodline Development wrote:
The arcanist selects one sorcerer bloodline upon taking this exploit.

[edited out something incorrect caused by a failure to read carefully]

Silver Crusade

I've been gaming so long that sometimes I forget to pay close attention to which rule set I'm talking about. <.<

They do have the components defined in this section on Magic under Components.

Pathfinder Resource Document wrote:
Somatic (S): A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component.

Just for future reference.

Silver Crusade

Because Spellstrike specifically says you combine the weapon attack and the spell and the Eldritch Archer uses identical wording for that portion of Ranged Spellstrike, the answer would be yes. Just like with Alchemist bombs, Weapon bonuses only apply on the direct target of your attack, not splash or area targets.

You should also check out the Ultimate Magic FAQ for other clarifications to other Magus questions. There are a lot, it's easy to get turned around.

Silver Crusade

Yep, I wasn't thinking. Thanks for catching that.

Silver Crusade

Avoron wrote:
Letric wrote:
he usually can't flank (using a weapon prevents casting and he's using heavy shield)
Just FYI, you can threaten and flank with a shield, even if you don't intend to ever make shield bashes with it.

According to flanking rules all you need to do is threaten the appropriate square. Which you always do (excepting some conditions.)

If none of that sways your GM, then just pick up a spiked shield and that should end the disagreement. Though I would reccomend you put them on your tower shield if you're going to suck up those penalties anyway.

You might want to look into Bouncing Spell to give your magic more staying power.

If you choose you could also get Exotic Weapon(Net) which is a ranged touch attack, so your crappy BAB isn't as big a deal, buy a few of them and you'll be pleased.

A Lesser Metamagic Rod of Selective Spell will help greatly with some spells you can use to control the battlefield that aren't summons. (Or any Metamagic Rod you fancy, really.)

Aqueous Orb is a brilliant example. Nauseating Trail can be done on your one melee character to restrict the enemy's motions.

Those are just some of the many amazing 3rd Level Spells that you can enjoy. I know you get only a few now, with a little care, Level 5 will be a turning point.

I also want to point out that, without buying into all of your classes strengths, you cannot fill the holes your party has.

That's okay, since your job is not to catch everyone when they fall. Select the battlefield control spells you like, and you can at least create opportunities to escape with your lives, if not win, without sacrificing your core goals.

Silver Crusade

If we're talking about Blinded the condition, I'm not sure what you're asking. Do you want to know if there is a spell that gives you some kind of vision, otherwise lets you choose targets, or negates the effect? Something else?

You can usually use Perception to locate individuals, but it is not going to be easy. Optimally look for something that grants one of these abilities.

In terms of magic, there are a lot of Divination spells you can look at and talk over with your GM for anything that seems vague. Not sure what you want to play, so this is just the spell lists link.
If it's been magically caused then removing it is a 3rd level spell.

Silver Crusade

You must meet all the requirements to cast a spell. Specific feats can be used to overcome certain components.
So in the case of Burning Hands You need to have both your limbs and your voice free. Using Still Spell or Silent Spell changes things. If you had Silent Spell, then you could cast Burning Hands while gagged, but not tied up. If you had Still Spell, you could cast Burning hands while tied up, but not gagged. If you had both, you could cast Burning Hands while gagged and tied up.

Silver Crusade

StreamOfTheSky wrote:
No, I said it lets you (the bearer of the feat) make yourself easier to hit. It also allows you (the bearer of the feat) to get an AoO when another ally with the feat does the former and a foe takes the schmuck bait.
StreamOfTheSky wrote:
Allies getting the "amazing opportunity" to get hit easier by the foe is not "benefiting" from the feat. Shocker, I realize.

Silver Crusade

@StreamOfTheSky:You claimed that Broken Wing Gambit made your allies easier to hit. I pointed out that concept was the exact opposite of what the feat did, which is why I called into question if you had read or understood the feat's description. I thought it was self-evident, but next time I'll endeavor to be more clear.

Silver Crusade

Somehow...I'm just not surprised.

Silver Crusade

StreamOfTheSky wrote:
ErrantPursuit wrote:
The marginalizing commentary in your spoiler tells me you haven't actually read what the Feat in question does, or if you have, then you didn't understand it clearly.
While as the marginalizing commentary you have about me means what, exactly?
StreamOfTheSky wrote:
Allies getting the "amazing opportunity" to get hit easier by the foe is not "benefiting" from the feat. Shocker, I realize.
Broken Wing Gambit wrote:
Benefit: Whenever you make a melee attack and hit your opponent, you can use a free action to grant that opponent a +2 bonus on attack and damage rolls against you until the end of your next turn or until your opponent attacks you, whichever happens first. If that opponent attacks you with this bonus, it provokes attacks of opportunity from your allies who have this feat.

Silver Crusade

Lifat wrote:
As far as I know however, the only place in the rules where it is relevant is when determining bonus spells.

Also qualifying for feats, etc...

Silver Crusade

This really takes off when you combine it with things like Dirge Bard and the Controller. Also this Heaven's Oracle ability...

Awesome Display (Su) wrote:
Your phantasmagoric displays accurately model the mysteries of the night sky, dumbfounding all who behold them. Each creature affected by your illusion (pattern) spells is treated as if its total number of Hit Dice were equal to its number of Hit Dice minus your Charisma modifier (if positive).

In theory, you could, expensively, dip 3 levels in Sorcerer/Wizard/Oracle, and then Dirge Bard for the rest of your career. You would be able to enchant, charm and otherwise manipulate almost everything you come across. There will be a few exceptions, but you're probably the most effective character of that type your table will ever meet. (Honestly you can drop the Heaven's Oracle, it's more of a cherry on top to Color Spray the Lich King.)

Silver Crusade

StreamOfTheSky wrote:
Or you could rule it as I suggested. Only the Inquisitor gets anything that could remotely* be considered a "bonus" and his already narrow class feature is no longer incompatible w/ one of the small handful of feats it's meant to do something with.

Solo Tactics is by no means trivial. Many Teamwork Feats are actually quite good. The marginalizing commentary in your spoiler tells me you haven't actually read what the Feat in question does, or if you have, then you didn't understand it clearly.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
It says that for the purposes of determining whether the Inquisitor gets the bonuses of his teamwork feats, "all of the inquisitor’s allies are treated as if they possessed the same teamwork feats as the inquisitor."

Her allies do not receive any bonuses from these feats unless they actually possess the feats themselves. Being provoked is a listed benefit of Broken Wing Gambit. Nothing you have presented explains why your Allies are receiving a bonus they are not entitled to.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Nobody is giving allies benefits, here.
Broken Wing Gambit wrote:
Benefit: provokes attacks of opportunity from your allies who have this feat.

Except that benefit. Having this feat provides that effect. That effect is unavailable without this feat. The AoO is a bonus granted explicitly by possessing this feat. Your allies are not provided that effect by Solo Tactics.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
And like Stream of the Sky said, it’s supposed to give you something. And the fact that it gives for all the feats, not just 1 of them, means that feat synergies are supposed to happen sometimes, too.

Seriously? This class feature is awesome. I've already posted a short list of Teamwork Feats that benefit from Solo Tactics. It's absurd to think Solo Tactics will work with everything in every situation. There are limitations to what each class feature provides. What you want to do is, sadly, not available the way you want to do it. This trick works better as a Cavalier.

Silver Crusade

Nefreet wrote:
The other is that the restriction of Free Actions being on your turn only still applies, since nothing says otherwise.

I don't consider this a valid argument, since Free Actions are actually not defined that way.

Nefreet wrote:
One of the arguments being presented, however, is that an Attack of Opportunity is not considered to be an Action, so you can't combine a free action with an AoO.

This is the one that has no resolution in the current rules structure. Interpretations legitimately go both ways. There's a lot of circumstantial evidence to lend credence in both directions, too. In end you have to separately implied answers. Hence, hundreds of posts about it.

Silver Crusade

seebs wrote:
So I'm seeing pretty definite indications that at least some people at Paizo have taken it for granted that AoO allow you to take free actions, and the big question now is, what exactly are the shenanigans we are supposed to be worried about?

The argument, as I understand it, is that allowing any Free Action outside of your turn is incredibly abusive because many free actions can change your state (Armed/disarmed, penalties to hit prone vs standing, holding in one hand or two, these are just a few places issues come up.) I never felt it was relevant to this discussion because we were looking at an ability which required an explicit free action to happen upon a successful attack.

Silver Crusade

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Broken Wing Gambit does not trigger for the allies, and Paired Opportunist does not trigger for them either, assuming that none of them have both feats.

But for the purposes of the Inquisitor getting her attacks of opportunity--the benefit of the feats--Solo Tactics lets the Inquisitor treat her allies as if they did, because it lets her treat her allies as if they had those feats, and it still depends upon correct positioning and circumstances.

My application is more complicated than usual, but I can't see any contradiction with the RAW.

You cannot use Solo Tactics to give your opponents the benefit of a Feat, in this case the benefit is being provoked when the Inquisitor is Attacked. Solo Tactics explicitly states allies do not gain any bonuses. In order for Paired Opportunists to trigger, an AoO must actually be provoked.

We both agree that Broken Wing Gambit does not trigger for allies. If it cannot trigger on its own, it will not qualify for another effect that passively waits to be triggered. Why should it? To qualify, allies would need to receive a bonus they are expressly forbidden.

There are plenty of great uses for the Solo Tactics class features, Broken Wing Gambit just isn't one of them.

Silver Crusade


Silver Crusade

Magda Luckbender wrote:
ErrantPursuit wrote:
your mount cannot attack because movement stops when the lance hits.
This is incorrect, both by game rules
Charge wrote:
You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent.

The charge must end at the first square you may legally attack from. If your weapon has a greater reach than your mount, or your mount has a greater reach than your weapon, one of you is not attacking.

What rules are you referring to?

Magda Luckbender wrote:
and how it works in real life.

Completely irrelevant. Mounted Combat in this game was never like how it is in real life.

Silver Crusade

Only you can end the cycle of endless counterpoint...
Inform. Discuss. Recruit.
Or just FAQ it.


Silver Crusade

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

C’mon guys, I asked for evidence. Bring forth the evidence! Otherwise, I have evidence. You don’t. I win.

Not fair? How about this: I made my argument; I backed it with evidence; you failed to demonstrate that either my argument or my evidence is wrong; your counter arguments have no evidence.

Argument + evidence > than Argument.

I win.

Juvenile, inaccurate, and deliberately inflammatory.

An inability to understand or acknowledge your opponents arguments is not only not a victory, it's not a debate and no resolution can be reached.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
At least explain what you think is false about my argument or what you don’t understand about it.

You misunderstand and are thus overstating the operational parameters of the lynchpin: Solo Tactics. This is where TGMAxMaxer and I interpret the same text differently from you. Since we are both examining and discussing the same literature, and in fact the same portion, there is no evidence to cite.

The section we're in disagreement upon is:

Solo Tactics wrote:
At 3rd level, all of the inquisitor’s allies are treated as if they possessed the same teamwork feats as the inquisitor for the purpose of determining whether the inquisitor receives a bonus from her teamwork feats. Her allies do not receive any bonuses from these feats unless they actually possess the feats themselves. The allies’ positioning and actions must still meet the prerequisites listed in the teamwork feat for the inquisitor to receive the listed bonus.

The specific call outs are: "...determining whether the Inquisitor receives a bonus..." and "...allies do not receive any bonuses from these feats unless they actually possess the feats..."

From this we can conclude two things:
1)Allies cannot receive any benefits that are provided explicitly by the feat. These are listed under the "Benefit" portion of every feat.
2) Only the Inquisitor receives the bonus, and even then only if the allies meet the other requirements.

The first conclusion is the one that tells us where to draw the lines. Unless an ally possess the feat, they do not receive any options listed under the "Benefits" section.

Broken Wing Gambit says...

Broken Wing Gambit wrote:
If that opponent attacks you with this bonus, it provokes attacks of opportunity from your allies who have this feat.

When the Inquisitor uses Broken Wing Gambit her allies count as qualifiers for the Inquisitor not themselves or each other. If the opponent strikes at +2, only allies who possess Broken Wing Gambit are provoked. Why? Because allies do not receive any bonuses from those feats unless they actually possess them. Being provoked is one of the bonuses of the feat Broken Wing Gambit.

Since no provocation occurred, then Paired Opportunists will not trigger.

A few feats that are clean examples of Solo Tactics might be: Lookout, Seize the Moment, Precise Strike, Combat Medic, Back to Back, Shake it Off. There are of course, others.

Silver Crusade

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There is a catch when it comes to Reach. If you're weapon (a lance?) has greater reach than the mount, your mount cannot attack because movement stops when the lance hits. Make sure that both you and the mount threaten the target at the same time to get maximum benefits.

Silver Crusade

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

The fact that her allies fail to seize the opportunities she gives them is irrelevant in the mind of an Inquisitor. She has followed procedure, and so dispenses judgment.

E.P., It seems that you are saying that not responding to a provocation is the same thing as not being provoked. If Aggro the Axe (one of E.G.G.'s characters) fails to punch Bluto the Barbarian in the face for what he said about his mother, Bluto still did provoke Aggro. You don't have to respond to every provocation just to be provoked. And Paired Opportunist triggers on the provocation, not on the action.

The problem is that no Attacks of Opportunity are generated by your allies for you to take advantage of because they don't receive those benefits as if they had the feat. Just like the Greater Bull Rush provides attacks of opportunity, but unless someone is actually capable of taking them, none are generated.

Silver Crusade

It kind of depends on what you want to do. The shenanigans you can get up to with Wild Shape, Rage Powers, and Full BAB are glorious. Alternatively you can pick up Barbarian/Magus or Barbarian/Inquisitor for gestalt blends.

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